LG 65EC9700 65 OLED Anticipation thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
And another one (NCIXUS) at the same $10,000 price: http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=95334
I personally would not use a vendor with a return policy like theirs. Have you read it?

http://www.ncixus.com/go/?customercare#terms

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Returns MUST include all original parts and packing materials and an NCIX RMA number, or the return will be rejected. NCIX reserves the right to refuse any returns or refunds for merchandise. DOA items may be returned within 25 days of ordering and may be subject to a 15% restocking fee at the discretion of NCIX.

LCD monitors and other products with LCD displays (i.e.: notebooks, cameras, etc.) adheres to the dead-pixel policy that been established by most of the manufacturers. Any product with an LCD screen must be a minimum of 7 (seven) dead LCD pixels to be considered defective (DOA). Please contact the manufacturer of the product for additional warranty information if you receive a product with less than 7 dead pixels.
No thanks.

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post #152 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 04:25 PM
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And then get this little bit of fun from NCIXUS. Read what I put in red:

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NCIX offers a 15-day Satisfaction Guarantee on many items that we sell. Due to supplier and manufacturer restrictions, some opened items will be non-refundable, and any return is subject to prior approval from NCIX. Items that are unopened and still in its original shrink wrap and sealed, can be returned without restriction, within 15 days of purchase, unless marked as nonreturnable. All items returned to us must be shipped pre-paid.

Items eligible for return are subject to a 15% restocking fee, and if approved by NCIX would be eligible for exchange, merchandise credit, or refund. Due to the volatile nature of component prices, items will only be refunded at the current pricing at the time of return. Software must be in its original box and unopened (still sealed in its original shrink wrap). Defective software will be exchanged with the same title (subject to availability).

Satisfaction Guarantee excludes CRT monitors, LCD monitors, netbooks, notebook computers, mobile PCs, mobile phones, handhelds, PDAs, digital cameras (and accessories), projectors (and accessories), printers, graphics tablets, headphones, software, consumables (i.e. printer cartridges, CD-Rs, and blank media), televisions, consumer appliances (i.e. microwaves, refrigerators, etc.), customized computers, mouse pads and special order items.
LOL!
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post #153 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 07:53 PM
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Shouldn't this be called an"anticipation" or "speculation" thread?

I don't understand why fafrd starts OLED owner's threads when he doesn't own an OLED.
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post #154 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post
Shouldn't this be called an"anticipation" or "speculation" thread?

I don't understand why fafrd starts OLED owner's threads when he doesn't own an OLED.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Why would there be?
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post #155 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 09:26 PM
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Owner should be the one to start an owners thread

I guess it doesn't really matter what the thread is called, and fafrd is generally a very enthusiastic fellow, so I think he wants to be an owner

Anyway, this thread title doesn't have the the world "official" in it, so when I get mine, I'll start the "official" thread. LOL

I hope it streets for 7000. That would be great.
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post #156 of 3037 Old 07-14-2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Didn't realize they had been out there that long. On the other hand, the fact that their pricing of $10,000 is aligned with 'official' pricing LG has announced in the UK (£6000) is probably more than a coincidence.

Ya couple of months ago, when i asked them about the 55ec9300 they said it will be available in July, and the MSRP (Canadian) would be $7500, usually the Canadian MSRP is higher than that in the States. So the info they gave me might end up correct.

I also asked them about the 65ec9700 and they mentioned it would be available end of August or September and MSRP would be the 10k that you mentioned.
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post #157 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
Owner should be the one to start an owners thread
^Pedantic reasoning.

No, anyone committed to gathering new and reliable information on upcoming models are more than welcome to start an owners thread. No one should care at all if they actually own the beast or not.

And "official" in the title means nothing.

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post #158 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 08:18 AM
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Looks like the 4K OLED models will be first released in China next month according to http://english.etnews.com/device/2964334_1304.html
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post #159 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yappadappadu View Post
Looks like the 4K OLED models will be first released in China next month according to http://english.etnews.com/device/2964334_1304.html

'At a meeting with reporters, Samsung Display CEO Park Dong-gun expressed the company’s skeptical viewpoint, “As the price of curved UHD LCD has been lowered to KRW 4 million as of late, there would be no one willing to buy an OLED TV at KRW 10 million.” '


So Samsung is betting that there is no market for WOLEDs costing 2.5X the price of a curved UHD LCD (which seems like a pretty safe bet in my view).


Since the curved UN65HU9000 can currently be found easily in the US market for $3600, that translates to $8500 today.


LG has communicated a target to get the cost of WOLED down below 1.5X the price of a curved UHD LCD by mid 2015, which would be $5000 based on today's pricing.


How quickly LG can get down to 1.5X is a big wildcard, but in any case, I believe LG will quickly get the street price of the 65EC9700 down below 2X the street price of the UN65HU9000 (and they may even launch below that price with a pre-launch discount). That would mean a price of ~$7000 soon after launch (as some have already predicted based on pricing announced in the UK).
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post #160 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

LG has communicated a target to get the cost of WOLED down below 1.5X the price of a curved UHD LCD by mid 2015, which would be $5000 based on today's pricing.
I thought that was not an LG spokesperson, but rather an 'industry' spokesperson. I mentioned in another thread that LG had said that and was quickly corrected. So I don't believe this was LG at all.
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post #161 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I thought that was not an LG spokesperson, but rather an 'industry' spokesperson. I mentioned in another thread that LG had said that and was quickly corrected. So I don't believe this was LG at all.
Yep....this has been repeatedly pointed out here. If anyone has an LG link that says that, please chime in now. But until then, it's complete nonsense.

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post #162 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Yep....this has been repeatedly pointed out here. If anyone has an LG link that says that, please chime in now. But until then, it's complete nonsense.

You are both correct, it is not a direct quote from LG but from a Korean analyst: https://translate.google.com/transla...9%26sCode%3D12


"OLED TV is LED TV Full HD ① Compared with the central weakness of the uniform product configuration, ②, such as the high price of a TV set. However, from the third quarter, LG Electronics 55, 65, 77 inches UHD OLED TV is diversified product mix and quarter cut from 30% to 40% price premium compared to the LED TV is expected to shrink to less than 1.5 times the weaknesses of these is expected to be largely mitigated. "

On the other hand, there is enough information in the article that has materialized as stated that calling that reference 'complete nonsense' is probably an overstatement.


And in any case, there is no argument surrounding the central point that LG will need to get the price premium of their WOLED TVs down to an acceptable premium above that of corresponding LED/LCD flagships (the curved Samsung UN65HU9000 is a good proxy) to have any chance to sell the increased manufacturing volume coming off of the M2 manufacturing line.


The only question is when will M2 be pumping out the equivalent of 4000 55" WOLEDs per day (or 2000 65" WOLEDs per day or 1300 77" WOLEDs per day or more realistically some combination of the above). By the time that is happening, I believe we'll discover that the $2000 price for the 55EA9800 at Microcenter was not a 'mistake' and we'll probably also see that the price of the 65EC9700 is below 2X that of the Samsung UN65HU9000.


Looking forward to whatever LG has to say regarding M2 and WOLED in their Q2 financial reports expected soon.
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post #163 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
You are both correct, it is not a direct quote from LG but from a Korean analyst: https://translate.google.com/transla...9%26sCode%3D12


"OLED TV is LED TV Full HD ① Compared with the central weakness of the uniform product configuration, ②, such as the high price of a TV set. However, from the third quarter, LG Electronics 55, 65, 77 inches UHD OLED TV is diversified product mix and quarter cut from 30% to 40% price premium compared to the LED TV is expected to shrink to less than 1.5 times the weaknesses of these is expected to be largely mitigated. "

On the other hand, there is enough information in the article that has materialized as stated that calling that reference 'complete nonsense' is probably an overstatement.
Not nearly as much an overstatement as you made here (bold emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
LG has communicated a target to get the cost of WOLED down below 1.5X the price of a curved UHD LCD by mid 2015, which would be $5000 based on today's pricing.
And yes it is complete nonsense unless LG does in fact communicate it. "is expected" is a very weak statement for an analyst, and until we see a direct quote it does not indicate any sort of target set by LG, despite how it keeps getting circulated around.

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post #164 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Not nearly as much an overstatement as you made here (bold emphasis mine):



And yes it is complete nonsense unless LG does in fact communicate it. "is expected" is a very weak statement for an analyst, and until we see a direct quote it does not indicate any sort of target set by LG, despite how it keeps getting circulated around.

I've already apologized for incorrectly attributing the source of this information to LG (along with any overstatement that implies).


For LG to 'officially' announce a planned-for price reduction on the horizon would be the surest way to dry up what little sales they are able to eke out of their current market for WOLEDs. Providing hints to analysts who are certain to challenge LG to lay out their strategy to drive up sales volumes for their WOLED TVs in the face of the coming M2 production ramp is the way this kind of information is leaked/floated to the market everyday.


We don't know whether this analyst was reporting on a meeting they had with LG representatives or just blowing smoke based on their own analysis, and that is the weak point in the position I have taken. That being said, discounting this entire input regarding the importance for LG to get the price of their WOLED TVs down below 1.5X the price of top-tier LED/LCDs as 'complete nonsense' is not seeing the forest for the trees.
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post #165 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That being said, discounting this entire input regarding the importance for LG to get the price of their WOLED TVs down below 1.5X the price of top-tier LED/LCDs as 'complete nonsense' is not seeing the forest for the trees.
Disagree on the forest thing. Now is precisely the time to question absolutely everything that doesn't come directly from a manufacturer, and even then you have to read the statement while squinting. There have been some rumors set aside by manufacturers lately that formed much like this: some 3rd party analyst overstating a position and then people running with it as an official release.

We can speculate all we like. Many times we will overstate what we hear....only natural---in fact I'm not blasting you for precisely that any longer. But right now for corporate pricing models and intentions, lending more than *zero* credibility to a lone (non manufacturer) voice in the wind, analyst or not, is a mistake.

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post #166 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Disagree on the forest thing. Now is precisely the time to question absolutely everything that doesn't come directly from a manufacturer, and even then you have to read the statement while squinting. There have been some rumors set aside by manufacturers lately that formed much like this: some 3rd party analyst overstating a position and then people running with it as an official release.

We can speculate all we like. Many times we will overstate what we hear....only natural---in fact I'm not blasting you for precisely that any longer. But right now for corporate pricing models and intentions, lending more than *zero* credibility to a lone (non manufacturer) voice in the wind, analyst or not, is a mistake.

"Fafrd believes it is going to be critical for LG to get the price of their WOLED TVs down to a premium of no more than 50% beyond the price of the corresponding 4K LD/LCD flagships soon after the new M2 production line is fully ramped up and producing the equivalent of 4000 55" WOLEDs per day, a view apparently shared by others in the industry."


There is no evidence that LG has officially acknowledged anything similar, but hopefully that statement (speculation) from me is something you can accept and not dismiss as complete nonsense.
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post #167 of 3037 Old 07-15-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
There is no evidence that LG has officially acknowledged anything similar, but hopefully that statement (speculation) from me is something you can accept and not dismiss as complete nonsense.
LOL, ok ok....

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post #168 of 3037 Old 07-16-2014, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post
I just spent ~2 hours reading this thread and some of the attached links...

So here is the question, is there a technical reason for these new curved screens? ARE they required to make this tech work today? Is this a wave of the future design of all of the tvs soon......

I saw this discussed some in this thread but really didn't see the answer........

And to go with that question, I sit 15-20 ft (18ft) from my current 58" LED/LCD, screen bottom is hung 4 ft off the floor on a set of stairs. The room shape best fits this viewing position and sound system is setup to make this work.

Not really another way to set the room up without interfering with other parts of the room....... Would a curved TV even work with my room setup or similar?
You didn't see the answer here because it's a thread about a specific model, not curved TVs in general. There are threads dedicated to this topic if you really want to see the arguing about it....but it gets pretty heated.

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post #169 of 3037 Old 07-18-2014, 12:07 AM
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Every store display model I have seen in Taiwan has terrible image retention and probably burn-in. The Panasonic plasmas do not running the same content. I'd stick with plasma until they get this controlled better personally.


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Originally Posted by wse View Post
This is my biggest concerned I watch movies only and 85% of them are in 2:35 or 2:40
 

Here's one they didn't tell you about: OLED is subject to burn-in. Like plasma and CRT before it, OLED can retain images on the screen temporarily, and perhaps even permanently, if it's left static for too long.
 
While the degree to which it is susceptible is as yet unknown, there are a couple examples we've seen already.
At the top left of you can see where the screen has retained an image of the menu, although it may not be permanent.  The most extreme is the LG OLED display at U.K. department store Harrods, where according to a post by an AVS Forums member, burn-in appears to have occurred after two months on display.
 
Hopefully they will launch a 2:35 OLED and that will solve the problem
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post #170 of 3037 Old 07-18-2014, 04:14 AM
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They tried a 2:35 flat panel (not sure if it was plasma or LCD) and if went nowhere.Kind of a ridiculous looking shape.I have a 12 year old Pioneer plasma I took no precautions with and it had image retention but it never lasted and I have none on the screen now.This retention fear might just be a bit overblown.

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post #171 of 3037 Old 07-18-2014, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
Every store display model I have seen in Taiwan has terrible image retention and probably burn-in. The Panasonic plasmas do not running the same content. I'd stick with plasma until they get this controlled better personally.
That pix is a bit scary. That's either very prominent IR or burn-in.
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post #172 of 3037 Old 07-18-2014, 10:16 PM
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That pix is a bit scary. That's either very prominent IR or burn-in.
To be fair Ken, pretty much every kind of tv will get ir/burn in if the same content is run day and night
I am going to wait until I see some users complain about real burn in, before I start sweating

If I had the balls, I would put my oled through a test run with my wife
She was able to get the ID channel logo burned in on both my panisonic plasmas(vt30 and st50)
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
To be fair Ken, pretty much every kind of tv will get ir/burn in if the same content is run day and night
I am going to wait until I see some users complain about real burn in, before I start sweating

If I had the balls, I would put my oled through a test run with my wife
She was able to get the ID channel logo burned in on both my panisonic plasmas(vt30 and st50)
Hehe getting worried for a OLED tv that is on almost 24/7. Even a LCD would get some burn in, in the same situation.
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post #174 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post
Shouldn't this be called an"anticipation" or "speculation" thread?
.
I know my venders do not have concrete pricing yet, with that being said it will be a while before we have US owners.....
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post #175 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
To be fair Ken, pretty much every kind of tv will get ir/burn in if the same content is run day and night
I am going to wait until I see some users complain about real burn in, before I start sweating

If I had the balls, I would put my oled through a test run with my wife
She was able to get the ID channel logo burned in on both my panisonic plasmas(vt30 and st50)
Well, it's not just the presence of IR in that picture, it's also the degree of IR. That's really pretty etched in there and not at all 'subtle'.
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post #176 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:15 AM
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All Lg Oled manuals states max 1hour on static or black bar movies... Just to follow that n no problem.
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post #177 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:28 AM
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OLEDs do not get IR - they only get burned in which is non reversible.
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post #178 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:39 AM
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OLEDs do not get IR - they only get burned in which is non reversible.
Sorry ur wrong
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post #179 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:48 AM
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Well, it's not just the presence of IR in that picture, it's also the degree of IR. That's really pretty etched in there and not at all 'subtle'.
Since I was the one that took the photo and wrote the article, I can assure you that it was burn in and was pretty bad. I will be back in London soon and will check out the selection in Harrods to see what they have on display. If they have an OLED, I will check it carefully for burn in or IR.
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post #180 of 3037 Old 07-19-2014, 10:58 AM
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OLEDs do not get IR - they only get burned in which is non reversible.
According to whom exactly? It's not true according to the brave souls who bought the ea9800. Both Vinnie and Plague (and a couple others I forget) have reported having IR effects fade over time, some being more stubborn than others. Some of the IR remains behind and can be classified as BI, but OLED IR definitely exists.

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