LG 65EC9700 65 OLED Anticipation thread - Page 8 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post
I am waiting until the 4k Blu-ray spec is published. The set I buy will have to be able to fully meet that specs requirements. Current speculation says the 2d half of 2015 before that happens.
Dave, I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if today's 2014 UHD TVs won't be able to play 4K BDs. There will almost certainly be a backward capability that allows current UHD TVs to play the new 4K discs. If the 4K Blu-ray spec eventually speaks to an expanded color space, I could see the current UHD TVs not having that capability. However even there, you'd still have those displays mapping to the current Rec709. Let's face it, today's displays look pretty damn good in the color department when ISF'd.

But with that said, I certainly could see the wisdom of waiting if you're so inclined...it just may be a long wait. I'm really not sure I want to wait almost 2 years to buy a UHD TV which is how long it would probably take for the new specs to downstream to the hardware. Let's face it, once the spec is developed and it finally shows up in the first sets, people will still want to wait for everyone to release their new products. That's why I suspect it will be a good 2 years.
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post #212 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 06:16 AM
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Lg taken Samsungs number 1 spot in the udhd sales

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140718000328
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post #213 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dave, I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if today's 2014 UHD TVs won't be able to play 4K BDs. There will almost certainly be a backward capability that allows current UHD TVs to play the new 4K discs. If the 4K Blu-ray spec eventually speaks to an expanded color space, I could see the current UHD TVs not having that capability. However even there, you'd still have those displays mapping to the current Rec709. Let's face it, today's displays look pretty damn good in the color department when ISF'd.

But with that said, I certainly could see the wisdom of waiting if you're so inclined...it just may be a long wait. I'm really not sure I want to wait almost 2 years to buy a UHD TV which is how long it would probably take for the new specs to downstream to the hardware. Let's face it, once the spec is developed and it finally shows up in the first sets, people will still want to wait for everyone to release their new products. That's why I suspect it will be a good 2 years.

That would mean you buy one now and in 2 years buy another that supports at the features. For me, that is the problem. I do not change my sets every year or two years. Most people don't, which is why the CE's are shooting themselves in the foot with the 4K roll out. They never seem to learn their lessons in their drive for quick profits.
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post #214 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 07:27 AM
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^ That's assuming one who buys today thinks it's worthwhile to change out in 2 years. The upcoming changes (if and when they do occur) may simply not represent a big enough improvement to warrant a change from today's UHD sets.

My guess is that most buying today won't think it's worth it.
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post #215 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dave, I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if today's 2014 UHD TVs won't be able to play 4K BDs. There will almost certainly be a backward capability that allows current UHD TVs to play the new 4K discs. If the 4K Blu-ray spec eventually speaks to an expanded color space, I could see the current UHD TVs not having that capability. However even there, you'd still have those displays mapping to the current Rec709. Let's face it, today's displays look pretty damn good in the color department when ISF'd.

But with that said, I certainly could see the wisdom of waiting if you're so inclined...it just may be a long wait. I'm really not sure I want to wait almost 2 years to buy a UHD TV which is how long it would probably take for the new specs to downstream to the hardware. Let's face it, once the spec is developed and it finally shows up in the first sets, people will still want to wait for everyone to release their new products. That's why I suspect it will be a good 2 years.
Ken: My current thinking is that 2015 upper end sets (including OLED) arriving after mid year will likely meet the 4k BD specs. By that I mean full HDMI 2.0 capability, HDCP 2.2, 10 bit panels and DCI-P3 color gamut capable. Set makers are involved in 4k BD development and will know what is going to be in the spec before release and the all upper end sets are trending toward the specs I have listed.
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post #216 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 08:28 AM
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Dave, I suspect the most important spec for 4K BD compatibility will be HDCP 2.2. I believe most, if not all, of the 2014 models are already there along with HDMI 2.0. I'm not sure how likely it is that we'll see the new color gamut implemented, so I'm not sure how vital that is at this point. An article I had read a few months back by Joe Kane, seemed to cast some doubt on this due to technical issues in production.
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post #217 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 08:54 AM
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That's what's scary about 4k
There doesn't seem to be an overall leader or consensus on how it will progress
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post #218 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dave, I suspect the most important spec for 4K BD compatibility will be HDCP 2.2. I believe most, if not all, of the 2014 models are already there along with HDMI 2.0. I'm not sure how likely it is that we'll see the new color gamut implemented, so I'm not sure how vital that is at this point. An article I had read a few months back by Joe Kane, seemed to cast some doubt on this due to technical issues in production.
LCD can cover rec.2020 ever since RGB LED back light came around. There are some problems ,however, with the emulation of adobe RGB on consumer LCDs.


I can't see the reason why rec.2020 color space can't be implemented on LCDs or OLEDs.

....
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post #219 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Lg taken Samsungs number 1 spot in the udhd sales

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140718000328
Sure hope this UHD success doesn't cause the LG execs to cut back on their OLED focus.
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post #220 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 11:56 AM
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Sure hope this UHD success doesn't cause the LG execs to cut back on their OLED focus.
LG have committed to mass producing OLEDs they have a lot of contracts and binding agreements and stuff with third parties (Merck, UDC etc.) from which they can't back out, now, scot-free. A couple months ago LG could back out, but not now for the next couple of years at least.


LG have passed the point of no return on OLEDs meaning OLED TVs are happening for sure(barring all-out wars and world-scale natural and human-made disasters)
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....

Last edited by stas3098; 07-21-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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post #221 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dave, I suspect the most important spec for 4K BD compatibility will be HDCP 2.2. I believe most, if not all, of the 2014 models are already there along with HDMI 2.0. I'm not sure how likely it is that we'll see the new color gamut implemented, so I'm not sure how vital that is at this point. An article I had read a few months back by Joe Kane, seemed to cast some doubt on this due to technical issues in production.
Ken: One of the things recently brought to light in the AVR section is that you can get full HDMI 2.0 in some 2014 models AVRs (Pioneer, Denon and Yamaha) WITHOUT HDCP 2.2 OR you can get HDCP 2.2 with HDMI 2.0 LITE (4:2:0) in Marantz but not both in one AVR. Seems no one was making a single chip solution at the time the designs were finalized. My comment when this came out was what a cluster Fu@$ 4k has been so far. Regarding DCI-P3 color gamut, my limited understanding is that most current movies are mastered using this so adoption from a studio standpoint shouldn't create much of a problem.
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post #222 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 03:54 PM
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Yeah Dave, receivers are an entirely different story. They generally lag the displays in the latest connectivity standards.
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post #223 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 04:21 PM
 
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That's what's scary about 4k
There doesn't seem to be an overall leader or consensus on how it will progress
What is scary is the fact that they are predicting the new sets that are too the higher standards will make today 4K sets look bad in comparison. That is why I will spend the big $$ for the 65 OLED because at least I will have a 4K OLED for my money. I came Very Close to buying the 950B this weekend but new I would regret it if the 65 OLED comes in at around the same price.
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post #224 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 05:31 PM
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Maybe you can start a thread for us where you can update us on which TV you currently have as you rotate through them and why it's the best TV on the market (for the few days you have it)...
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post #225 of 3200 Old 07-21-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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Everyone knows OLED has the best specs of any display by a large margin, now it is only a matter of when the large 4K sets are coming and how much they cost.

There is no such thing as one brand or model fits everyone. If I could control my lighting I would have a 64" F8500 and wait until the 4K have an agreed to standard. Sadly it looks like the next upgrade of UHDTV will make the current sets look like 2k in comparison.
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post #226 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 07:43 AM
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Sure hope this UHD success doesn't cause the LG execs to cut back on their OLED focus.

Isn't this report about panels made, not TVs sold?
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post #227 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 08:32 AM
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Sadly it looks like the next upgrade of UHDTV will make the current sets look like 2k in comparison.
Nah, I wouldn't agree with that at all Vegas. In fact I'd bet some of the next upgrades will be almost unobservable to most. There's no way that 2015 models will make 2014 units look outdated. It just won't happen.
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post #228 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 01:13 PM
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Higher colur gammut has more a impact than higher res on the eyes ..
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post #229 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 01:43 PM
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Higher colur gammut has more a impact than higher res on the eyes ..
Well, it has come recently to my attention that rec.2020 will cause a lot of problems with current rec.709 (RGB) color space based content and it's very hard to correctly emulate rec.2020 on LCDs as is. So your TV would have to be able to switch flawlessly between rec.2020 and rec.709 color space in order for the whole thing to work which is a very hard&expensive trick to pull off.

....
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post #230 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 03:50 PM
 
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Nah, I wouldn't agree with that at all Vegas. In fact I'd bet some of the next upgrades will be almost unobservable to most. There's no way that 2015 models will make 2014 units look outdated. It just won't happen.

We are not talking about 2015, the below article discusses the next level of UHD sets will make the current ones look, let say not so 4K. Of course the manufactures will suck as much money out of early adaptors as they can the next couple years.


UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy
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post #231 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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Maybe you can start a thread for us where you can update us on which TV you currently have as you rotate through them and why it's the best TV on the market (for the few days you have it)...
Maybe you can get a life
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post #232 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 03:53 PM
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Maybe you can get a life
ol, i hope you arent taking those guys seriously
your easy to goof on due to your opinion swaps, but its good to have someone that is willing to buy the sets
, put them to the test, and report their opinions
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post #233 of 3200 Old 07-22-2014, 04:11 PM
 
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ol, i hope you arent taking those guys seriously
your easy to goof on due to your opinion swaps, but its good to have someone that is willing to buy the sets
, put them to the test, and report their opinions

Ken and a couple of guys on this forum are good guys and they make comments that are funny, I have laughed out load at a few. This Member is Rude and if you look at his post, most of them contribute nothing but just attack members. He has no idea how many sets I kept or retailers I dealt with. I am very loyal to the sales person who helped me out with my purchase process and although I paid more to make sure I stuck with him, it was worth it.


Opinions are only that, the only thing I changed my opinion on is 4K, it is better and to my eyes, as with OLED the next level. I would rather share my thoughts and learning experiences with others so I might help them in the process then spend my time attacking others.
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post #234 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 10:37 AM
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We are not talking about 2015, the below article discusses the next level of UHD sets will make the current ones look, let say not so 4K. Of course the manufactures will suck as much money out of early adaptors as they can the next couple years.
Nothing there that would make me alter my opinion. We are a ways away from that wider dynamic range in both content & display and the actual difference between Rec2020 and Rec709 in practical terms, remains to be seen. Again, nothing 'around the corner' IMO. Remember Vegas, you were apparently pretty comfortable making the 4K jump too, even with this awareness and it was other reasons that you went back & forth so many times. You couldn't be emphasizing this now because your back with HD OLED, could you?

As for manufacturers sucking as much money out of early adaptors, what else is new? Look at OLED! Talk about sucking money out of the early adaptors! There has rarely been a more severe case of that.
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post #235 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 10:49 AM
 
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You couldn't be emphasizing this now because your back with HD OLED, could you?

As for manufacturers sucking as much money out of early adaptors, what else is new? Look at OLED! Talk about sucking money out of the early adaptors! There has rarely been a more severe case of that.
Not at all, people who purchase the 4K OLED should consider the same article. They also will not meet the future specs. Just as the early adaptors with the 900A paid a price, to be one of the 1st on the block cost more same with OLED. Ten years from now oled a will more than likely be the standard costing 30% of today's pricing.

I remember the 1st 40" LCD at BB for $8,000. A better display today is $400
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post #236 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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Well, it has come recently to my attention that rec.2020 will cause a lot of problems with current rec.709 (RGB) color space based content and it's very hard to correctly emulate rec.2020 on LCDs as is. So your TV would have to be able to switch flawlessly between rec.2020 and rec.709 color space in order for the whole thing to work which is a very hard&expensive trick to pull off.
Joe Kane goes into great detail about why he's not even sure we'll ever see some of the other advancements in UHD technology. It's not just issues on the display end, but there are many issues on the production end.

I just don't think that those who think that current gen UHD TVs will soon be outdated, are correct. Lots of obstacles and even if they are overcome, it won't be any time soon.

So you dive in now and enjoy or wait several years or however long it takes.
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post #237 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 11:01 AM
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Higher colur gammut has more a impact than higher res on the eyes ..
Well that's easy to say, but do you really know how much more of an impact...if any? Have you seen it?

I'll buy in when I see it and the difference is shown to have 'more of an impact than high res' and it's actually something that's around the corner on both the display & production side.

We're a long ways a way from even getting just the resolution side out on the broadcast end. Now I'm supposed to hold my breath waiting for super high contrast, wide color gamut and whatever else to be implemented on both displays, production and broadcast? Good luck with that and enjoy the wait.
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post #238 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 11:09 AM
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Not at all, people who purchase the 4K OLED should consider the same article. They also will not meet the future specs. Just as the early adaptors with the 900A paid a price, to be one of the 1st on the block cost more same with OLED. Ten years from now oled a will more than likely be the standard costing 30% of today's pricing.

I remember the 1st 40" LCD at BB for $8,000. A better display today is $400
But remember, there's a huge difference between the 2013 4K models inabilities to play 4K content via their USB inputs and not being able to stream 4K because of an absent codec (solved all in ONE year) and a 'wider color gamut' and 'higher contrast' at some point down the road...way down the road, IMO, for reasons I've previously stated.

The current UHD TVs will be absolutely fine for years and there's absolutely no comparison between what happened between 2013 and 2014 vs today's displays and the wider color gamut and higher contrast 'somewhere in our future'. Current displays have the all important codecs, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.

Hell, as I've said before, we're still years away from getting just the high rez end of it out from the broadcasters. Now I'm supposed to 'worry' about wider color gamut and contrast? This is not going to happen so fast.
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post #239 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 11:37 AM
 
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It's just is information for the person with a Pioneer Kuro, 950HX or other high end display to consider if they want to jump in to 4K. If someone is in the market for a TV they are in a different situation.

I sold my 55XBR8 and found myself having to purchase something . The person who purchases evey time the better set comes out need not to worry, I have noticed many people selling 900A for 900B sets. There is an argument for enjoying life while you can and for many if us our TV Is what we enjoy most.
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post #240 of 3200 Old 07-23-2014, 12:47 PM
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the large size of the 4k tvs is very appealing to me, cant wait to see how an oled looks compared to an equal sized lcd(i thought it was a little unfair in the TV comparison they had last year, where the OLED was the only 55' there, going against 65 zt60 and other 65's)
i will be buying one or the other, probably will come down to cost
as good as the pq on the oled is, it looked tiny compared to the 70'+ monsters next to it and my eyes were drawn to the larger screnes
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