DOES THE WORLD NEED CURVED TVS? - Page 6 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 243 Old 06-29-2014, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kasuza View Post
I have two curved TV - Samsung OLED and HU900 and these TV are absolutely amazing. Nothing wrong with the curve, the viewing angles is same as flat screen TV when my family watch it at family room. I cannot wall-mount my Samsung curve TV with Samsung slim-wall-mount like previous models.

Curved screens look their best on a stand, but it's a free country. Heck, not too long ago, CRT televisions on walls were not uncommon. Imagine that, a huge box like that teetering on a single Omni mount bracket! If viewers can tolerate that, surely few would object to seeing a curved screen on a wall.
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post #152 of 243 Old 06-29-2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
The only conceivable reason I can think of would be for structural integrity. Making something flat that's 4mm thin is definitely more difficult/expensive than a curved shape. Of course I don't need my TV to be 4mm thin in the first place but I guess they won't give that up - it draws too much attention in the stores since no LCD can duplicate it.

Not only that, there's also shipping cost to consider. LG must be saving a ton of dough on freight.
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post #153 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 03:42 AM
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I call 4K displays real if they offer 4K viewing advantage over the 2K in typical living room conditions. This means, for the viewing distance of 2-2.5xPH where the advantage definitely shows up, a display of size 110" and LG is promising to make OLED displays of this size. Now the question is if for such big display a curved one would actually look better than a flat one? Reason is that for the 110" there is quite measurable difference in distance between the center of the display and edges in the flat case. In curved display the distance is constant.
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post #154 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Curved screens look their best on a stand, but it's a free country. Heck, not too long ago, CRT televisions on walls were not uncommon.
They were always uncommon unless you run a hospital.

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post #155 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
...This means, for the viewing distance of 2-2.5xPH where the advantage definitely shows up, a display of size 110" and LG is promising to make OLED displays of this size. Now the question is if for such big display a curved one would actually look better than a flat one? Reason is that for the 110" there is quite measurable difference in distance between the center of the display and edges in the flat case. In curved display the distance is constant.
I've always thought that a curved screen might make some sense on truly large screens, like the sizes you've mentioned. The first curved screen in cinema (from my understanding) was Cinerama, which employed a truly wide screen. Even at that scale, they sought the largest screen possible to enjance the effect.

On smaller screen it seems more of a gimmick, even an annoyance,
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post #156 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 01:27 PM
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The most recent "evolution" of televisions could not come at a worse time for me. I finally find myself in a position to build out a dedicated home theatre, and all the things I have been looking forward to are going away. Plasma is essentially a thing of the past. As much as that pains me, I was okay with it since OLED was finally coming out. But now OLED is going by the wayside it seems. And now, even worse, if I do manage to find an OLED, I'm stuck with a curved panel. I've gone and experienced curve panel demos and I am unimpressed. I want my panel flat. Unfortunately, apparently if I want OLED and flat, I am limited to a 55" model that is 1080 resolution from LG.

I'm sure curved panels will sell quite nicely for a number of years. But really, more people than ever are starting to get into the home viewing experience. There has to be a market out there for televisions that embrace the larger audience viewing experience. I'd rather thrill 5-10 of my mates with a better picture than marginally increase the viewing experience for the one person "lucky" enough to sit dead-centre on the screen.
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post #157 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 01:36 PM
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^^^ if I had a dedicated, purposefully built home theater, I would go front projector. Forget these dinky 70 inchers
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post #158 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post
^^^ if I had a dedicated, purposefully built home theater, I would go front projector. Forget these dinky 70 inchers
While I would love to get in on 100" of viewing pleasure, the physical space I am limited to in building out the home theatre makes a screen that large slightly overkill. If I could find an 85" FLAT OLED, I would be on cloud-9. I have the unfortunate distinction of being one of those that falls between categories. I can either shop in the large end of flat panel televisions, or I can try and find a very high quality short throw projector. Both categories are sorely lacking in available choices these days.

With the expected number of total viewing hours being on the slightly absurd side, the benefits of OLED were quite appealing. Less energy, quieter, easier to align/calibrate. Most importantly, not having to go through the entire process every time I replace the bulb (at $200 each).
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post #159 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post
^^^ if I had a dedicated, purposefully built home theater, I would go front projector. Forget these dinky 70 inchers
Absolutely.
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post #160 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
4K is too a gimmick on a 55" display. But take 2x55"=110" and magically 4K & curved make sense .
Agrred. I was not at all impressed with the 65 inch 4K TV I saw.
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post #161 of 243 Old 06-30-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
While I would love to get in on 100" of viewing pleasure, the physical space I am limited to in building out the home theatre makes a screen that large slightly overkill....

....I can either shop in the large end of flat panel televisions, or I can try and find a very high quality short throw projector. Both categories are sorely lacking in available choices these days.

With the expected number of total viewing hours being on the slightly absurd side, the benefits of OLED were quite appealing. Less energy, quieter, easier to align/calibrate. Most importantly, not having to go through the entire process every time I replace the bulb (at $200 each).
I was just lookong at short throw prpjectors the other day, and was surprised by the small distance required.

It's all true about energy, bulbs, etc., but the tradeoff can be a120 inch screen that will make going to the movie theater unecessary.
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post #162 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post
It cost more money to make them FLAT.. as the price goes down more your start seeing them FLAT...
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Where did you read that it costs more money to make them flat????
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Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post
A few months ago I was doing a Google Search about OLED's and seen it BUT I don't remember where now...

I will post it here when I find it again...
I strongly suspect you won't find it from any credible place. It doesn't make engineering sense.
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post #163 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 11:30 AM
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A curved screen on a TV never makes any sense. You have curved screens on large screen in a commercial theater due to the limitations of the projector. There are NO such limitations in a TV, whether it is 110 inches or bigger. It is a GIMMICK to get you to buy a new screen. trying to convince you you need to have something new. My Lord people. As for Audio Karma, all OLEDS are made flat. They have to curve them for the curved display. Hence it costs more to make them curved than flat as you have the added step of curving them. The first OLED from LG was flat not curved. If they had to be manufactured curved then made flat, wouldn't the first one have been curved?
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post #164 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
4K is too a gimmick on a 55" display. But take 2x55"=110" and magically 4K & curved make sense .
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
Agrred. I was not at all impressed with the 65 inch 4K TV I saw.
I expect LG will demo 110"@4K OLED at the CES'15 and subsequently they productize it. Then it will only be a downhill slope for its price getting from sky to earth and the 110" Holy Display Grail can be hauled home .
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post #165 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
I expect LG will demo 110"@4K OLED at the CES'15 and subsequently they productize it. Then it will only be a downhill slope for its price getting from sky to earth and the 110" Holy Display Grail can be hauled home .
What exactly is the position then: that all the people reporting otherwise at shows and folks like me going into BB/Mag are imagining that they see a difference with 4K at sub-110" screens? I know full well the perils of:

1. settings
and
2. psychosomatic effects

But to me the 2K vs 4K thing is readily apparent in 65" at any "normal" viewing distances, and at least in the 65X900A case, even on 2K->4K Upscale.
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post #166 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 04:45 PM
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^^^ my position is if I don't see a difference with 4k/8k/16k, I'll just get close enough until I do
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post #167 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post
It's not a non issue that curved screens suck--it's a fact!

It's not a non issue that LCD will always not cut it when viewed at an angle--it is a fact.

It is not even a given that the average Joe six packs thinks that LED on vivid is great picture quality--there are undoubtedly many Joe six packs who might think this but equally true is not what they want or don't want--it is what the display industry thinks it can get them to buy!

IF the display industry can get them to buy garbage by ONLY offering them garbage then YES they will sell them garbage!

I don't believe that audio can be sold for zillions of dollars and that video can't be sold for over 4,000 dollars--don't tell me that people will only pay for what they hear but won't pay for what they can see--who believes that?!

Who do I blame for displays that suck? The display Industry for promoting displays that suck and not promoting displays that are superior. I also blame people that do know which displays suck and which ones don't that frequent sites such as this one and do not stand up for superior displays.

Look at it this way--at any car enthusiast forum or magazine you don't hear people waxing poetic over cars that are inferior without performance and supporting cars that are inferior with less performance because many people buy them! Why is it that you see so much of that here?

DO you think that people who buy Ferraris would like to buy displays better than edge lit crap?

But around here it is always argued that a premium video display niche cannot exist. That is BULL! Of course it could exist--the video display market is easy to FIX! The display manufacturers want it to be inferior and want there to not be a premium market--they want it that way if it means that they can make money selling garbage. And it is easy to SET the display market without premium alternatives because there aren't that many players involved.

Answer me this--are there more loudspeaker manufacturing companies or more panel display manufacturers? Which of those markets do you think would be more easy to FIX?

With the Japanese getting out and the Koreans down to just LG and Samsung and Samsung having problems with OLED and with the Chinese nowhere when it comes to display technology--=see how easy it is to FIX the market?

And what does Hollywood want? They want people to go to the movie theaters and for some to buy Blu-ray discs. How does Fantastic 4K OLED at home with either 4K discs at atmospheric prices or downloads at high prices benefit them, Well it doesn't!

They can make the most money if screens don't get too fantastic at picture quality to keep people out of the theaters--or too big screen sizes that will keep them out of theaters--and who knows maybe they can sell a few Blu-ray discs.

As far as Hollywood is concerned they like things the way they are. They want LCD to not get very big--to not get at as good a quality as plasma or OLED--see--stay crappy enough so that people will keep going to the theaters!

Face it--with Edge Lit LCD bought by the vast majority of TV buyers--TV picture quality has gone backwards! That's worth crying about but what is worse is all the people who are apologists for the display Industry that has brought us this fixed market of crap choices.

I'll tell you this--in 1974 at car enthusiast publications people bewailed the Mustang II and how the Mustang had gone down in performance--and yes they didn't care if a billion people bought them for fuel economy reasons.

But here we have so many people that APOLOGIZE for the display Industry that has pushed picture quality backwards.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion--I'll give you mine--anyone here who is not an enthusiast for better picture quality--I wish they weren't here. And if some people like that are here I wish it wasn't the majority that I think it is.

If I am wrong--I'm sure you out there will let me know about it.

Pray that we are not heading toward an LCD only world and if you're one of the lickers out there that truly do want an LCD only world populated with much edge lit LCD crap then have the guts to just come out and say it!

While you're at it defend CURVED garbage, too!
I totally agree that we are being held back when it comes to better & better PQ.
My ONLY excuse is i couldn't afford a backlite panel & for what i use my TV primarily as a PC monitor doesn't do too well when using plasma.I had a sammy c8000 plasma & IR got pretty bad @ times for my uses.
This curved screen thing going on is ridiculous.
I am NOT trying to make excuses even tho it sounds like it

SEK-2000/ZA....Any GOOD ?
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post #168 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 05:16 PM
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Does the world need curved TVs? The answer is the same as "Does the world need 4K, or HD, or even TV for that matter" and also the same as "Does the world need any vehicle that have more than 100 HP".


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post #169 of 243 Old 07-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
What exactly is the position then: that all the people reporting otherwise at shows and folks like me going into BB/Mag are imagining that they see a difference with 4K at sub-110" screens? I know full well the perils of:

1. settings
and
2. psychosomatic effects

But to me the 2K vs 4K thing is readily apparent in 65" at any "normal" viewing distances, and at least in the 65X900A case, even on 2K->4K Upscale.
I wouldn't say that I didn't see some difference, but it wasn't so compelling to me that I would describe it as earth shattering.

I'm not a great enthusiast for LCD, so that likely contributed to my reaction.

And people have different perceptual systems. People see and hear differently, and so they should buy according to their own perception.
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post #170 of 243 Old 07-02-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
I expect LG will demo 110"@4K OLED at the CES'15 and subsequently they productize it. Then it will only be a downhill slope for its price getting from sky to earth and the 110" Holy Display Grail can be hauled home .
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
What exactly is the position then: that all the people reporting otherwise at shows and folks like me going into BB/Mag are imagining that they see a difference with 4K at sub-110" screens? I know full well the perils of:
1. settings and
2. psychosomatic effects
But to me the 2K vs 4K thing is readily apparent in 65" at any "normal" viewing distances, and at least in the 65X900A case, even on 2K->4K Upscale.
The devil it seems is in the details: what is the "normal" viewing distance, what is the content used, is this side-by-side 4K/2K comparison with the same class of displays? For example, many 4K displays were of the ultra-high-end class with very sophisticated picture conditioning and naturally 2K display looked worse comparing to them.

But for the 110" display the 2K limitations would be showing up and the 4K advantage should be evident in typical living room viewing condition. I tested this in shop with smaller sets, the 4K/2K difference tends to disappear at 3PH, getting closer gradually reveals it.
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post #171 of 243 Old 07-02-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
The devil it seems is in the details: what is the "normal" viewing distance, what is the content used, is this side-by-side 4K/2K comparison with the same class of displays? For example, many 4K displays were of the ultra-high-end class with very sophisticated picture conditioning and naturally 2K display looked worse comparing to them.

But for the 110" display the 2K limitations would be showing up and the 4K advantage should be evident in typical living room viewing condition. I tested this in shop with smaller sets, the 4K/2K difference tends to disappear at 3PH, getting closer gradually reveals it.
That is the point. Viewing distance and the real merits of 4K are completely intertwined.

In order to upgrade the reason (at least for me) should be more compelling than some improvement. But, everyone sees things differently, and that's everyone's right.

I saw the Sony 65" 4K, and though very good did not give me the "I have to have this" impulse.

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post #172 of 243 Old 07-02-2014, 12:52 PM
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110' 4k oled sounds like heaven, curved or not

i have the curved 55 oled and i can say that the curve has grown on me
I was truely indifferent when i purchased the tv, because my focus was soley on the PQ
I do think that its a very nice looking tv, well put together, and I have never had a complaint about it by other people that have watched it(many in a recliner off direct viewing angle)
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post #173 of 243 Old 07-02-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
110' 4k oled sounds like heaven, curved or not

i have the curved 55 oled and i can say that the curve has grown on me
I was truely indifferent when i purchased the tv, because my focus was soley on the PQ
I do think that its a very nice looking tv, well put together, and I have never had a complaint about it by other people that have watched it(many in a recliner off direct viewing angle)
Hi,

you like the curve from an aesthetics viewpoint or you feel it adds something to the displayed picture?
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post #174 of 243 Old 07-02-2014, 03:19 PM
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Hi,

you like the curve from an aesthetics viewpoint or you feel it adds something to the displayed picture?
I don't think it adds anything and yes, I'm enjoying the look of it
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post #175 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 09:57 AM
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I'm not sure I agree with an earlier poster who stated that curved screens in cinemas were done to compensate for the shortcoming of projectors. However curved screens did optimize the image produced through anamorphic lenses,

From my understanding, one of the benefits of a curved screen was the enhancing of peripheral vision, to draw the viewer more into the action as happens to us in our everyday experience of the visual world. But this effect require a large screen, so that the edges of the screen were perceptibly to the sides of the center of the viewer's focus. This doesn't occur with a small TV display.

A curved screen on a smaller display can have aesthetic appeal, which is obviously a matter of taste, and possibly a curved screen is structurally stronger than a flat one, but I'm not sure.

As to the point that Irkuck has raised consistently...that the benefits of 4K begin to appear at larger screen sizes...I ran across a review of the new Onkyo TX-NR636 AV Receiver on Sound And Vision which reiterates the point:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...36-av-receiver

"...but the big news is “full” 4K-at-60-Hz ability, versus the 4K-at-30-Hz limitation of HDMI 1.4. I won’t have much to say about that, lacking as I do 4K sources and a 4K display—nor am I quite sure I’m ready to sit 4 feet from a 50-inch screen to perceive the greater pixel density beyond 1080p that 4K video offers..."

What Irkuck has been talking about has to do with the ability of the eye at various distance to resolve detail, and this is based on pretty uncontroversial science.

Marketers often do not simply speak to our needs, but actually stir us up to want things that we think we need. To take a critical look at this is a useful point of view, whatever people decide to do with their purchases.

My perception of the 65" 4K set as somewhat sharper was based on my being pretty close to the display.
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post #176 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 10:18 AM
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My grandfather used to own a commercial cinema. From what see personally, the curved screen in cinema helps with focusing on the edges (when anamorphic lens is used) and to even out the brightness uniformity from edge to edge.

This is way back when cinemas had balconies and can fit gabajillion people at once.

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post #177 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
My grandfather used to own a commercial cinema. From what see personally, the curved screen in cinema helps with focusing on the edges (when anamorphic lens is used) and to even out the brightness uniformity from edge to edge.

This is way back when cinemas had balconies and can fit gabajillion people at once.
There is that, as well as allowing the correction of the phenomenon that images projected conventionally on a flat screen will, for optical reasons, appear distorted and larger at the edges than at the center. A curved screen does permit correction for this.

But there are often many reasons and benefits for any idea or technology, and enhancing the sense of immersion by increasing peripheral information with a curved screen was clearly the intent behind Cinerama and other similar widescreen systems.,
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post #178 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
What Irkuck has been talking about has to do with the ability of the eye at various distance to resolve detail, and this is based on pretty uncontroversial science.
I'm not sure if you've noticed the pile of posts on the subject around here but it's highly controversial. I can't speak for Irkuck and a handful of others aside with legitimate concerns, the BULK of such opinions on this (hard and fast in stone for some folks LONG before anyone actually saw a 4K TV) came from a chart from Carlton Bale. Within that chart he used calculations related to the static acuity equations used in designing eye charts. There are two problems with this:

1. It confuses two notions: being able to see a single pixel and being able to see a difference between two images of different sized pixels.
2. Eye charts are vehicles for testing whether or not you can *recognize* a particular glyph, not for determining whether or not you can see one glyph different from another; those two goals are distinct.

Enough of this. Folks, avoid 4K at your own peril. By the way, I can't wait to see what 4K 4:2:0 looks like when down sampled to 2K 4:4:4, if hardware is readily available for it, and I can't imagine why it wouldn't be. Might make our 2K's look like 3K's. (lol)...

"By Grabthar's hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged!"
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post #179 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 11:43 AM
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I should never have used the word uncontroversial, particularly in the AVS forum.

And I am not anti 4K at all. It will be great with larger OLED screens.

According to this article by Carlton Bale you'd have to sit three and a half feet away from a 55 inch set to see an improvement with 4K, and five and a half feet from an 84 inch set. This assumes 20/20 vision.

He's basing his calculations on the work of Bernard Lechner of RCA Laboratories.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

I saw the 65" 4K from 7-9 feet away.

And anyway, non-controversial is probably the correct word.

Last edited by taichi4; 07-03-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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post #180 of 243 Old 07-03-2014, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
My grandfather used to own a commercial cinema. From what see personally, the curved screen in cinema helps with focusing on the edges (when anamorphic lens is used) and to even out the brightness uniformity from edge to edge.

This is way back when cinemas had balconies and can fit gabajillion people at once.
And today it's very hard to find curved screens in movie theaters anymore and I don't think many people miss them.
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