LG EC9800 4K OLED Pricing Speculation and Tracking Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well I guess I took LG at their word when they said pricing would not exceed 150% of the price of the typical LED for that size. Who knew they were lying?
LG never said that.
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post #62 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 09:29 AM
 
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It was a Korean analyst not employed by LG who somehow gleamed it. Still wish it were true, but...
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post #63 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 09:31 AM
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LG never said that.
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It was a Korean analyst not employed by LG who somehow gleamed it. Still wish it were true, but...
I was wondering about this! It had all the hallmarks of a parroted catch-phrase of misinformation and I was wondering if that was the case.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #64 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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For all we know, it may have been a poor translation. I wish Fafrd would link to the prediction in the OP (I have since lost track of it).

EDIT: Nevermind, the link is already there.

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post #65 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 09:58 AM
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Maybe they meant 150% more, not 150% of.
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post #66 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 11:38 AM
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Maybe they meant 150% more, not 150% of.
Hah! I can't tell you how many times I've bumped into folks that have no idea what a 200% price increase actually means. Let alone a 150% price increase. Someone should look up what that Korean analyst actually said.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".

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post #67 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 11:49 AM
 
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Calculators are dere friends! All kidding aside, that would suck. That said, based on the above prices, the 150% more calculation puts the 77" at $20,400, which is what some were anticipating all along. That also puts the 65" at $10,800, which is only slightly above what the set is showing up for preorder.

Last edited by vinnie97; 06-27-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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post #68 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 01:28 PM
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The LG will have a picture the Sony cant even begin to match , something that's much more important,IMO, when spending $8k
Without seeing them side by side with the same material, I'll call that conjecture at this point.
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post #69 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:14 PM
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Is the aspect ratio of these sets known (4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1)?

What would the width and height of the screen be for the 77" set?

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post #70 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:24 PM
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Is the aspect ratio of these sets known (4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1)?

What would the width and height of the screen be for the 77" set?
4:3 would be a death sentence for any TV manufacturer, so no.
21:9 and all similar oddities sell horribly.
16:9 is what you can always safely assume a TV is unless declared to be otherwise in bold type.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #71 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:32 PM
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Without seeing them side by side with the same material, I'll call that conjecture at this point.
At this point, I'm sold oled can deliver a better picture than LCD
I don't think resolution will change that
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post #72 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:40 PM
 
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I would agree overall, but when it comes to upscaling 1080p content to 4K, the jury's out. Would the contrast ratio and black levels overcome those potential advantages of the Sony? I guess that depends on the viewing environment and the person.
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post #73 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:46 PM
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I would agree overall, but when it comes to upscaling 1080p content to 4K, the jury's out. Would the contrast ratio and black levels overcome those potential advantages of the Sony? I guess that depends on the viewing environment and the person.
I agree with the up scaling tech, but I also think if 4k keeps advancing at a quick rate, upscaling will be a moot point
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post #74 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:50 PM
 
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Right, but there's still quite a bit of content out there not yet available in 1080p (not the most popular releases mind you, as those seem to be mostly covered), so there will be plenty of exclusively 1080p content for some time, and without a physical medium to watch 4K content, I'm less excited about the native stuff.
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post #75 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 02:58 PM
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I think the one major area where Sony is ahead is they have a lot more exclusive content. this alone makes the decision harder to choose between the two, because although the OLEDs have the best PQ. The issue is what content will be available to watch on it until Sony decides to unlock there content monopoly. I'm hoping they keep there word and allow the ps4 access to the 4k movies, but until then its choose the best display that you like or wait this whole thing out.
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post #76 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Right, but there's still quite a bit of content out there not yet available in 1080p (not the most popular releases mind you, as those seem to be mostly covered), so there will be plenty of exclusively 1080p content for some time, and without a physical medium to watch 4K content, I'm less excited about the native stuff.
I hear ya, that's the reason I bought the 55 oled
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post #77 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
So if the above 77" prices are correct, so much for LG's proclamation that their OLEDs will be no more than 150% of the similar size LEDs. If true, my short list just got shorter.

Looks like fafrd will have to go back to the pricing conjecture drawing boards.
If you read my original post starting this thread, I have never predicted launch pricing. The '150% of equivalent flagship LED/LCD' target was pretty clearly a referred to as a goal following launch. And as I stated in the lead post, the timeframe to reach that milestone will hopefully be the end of this year but may not be until mid-2015.

There is nothing in these launch MSRPs that leads me to change my prediction - 150% of Flagship LED/LCD between end of December this year and end of June next year.

The first sets sold will command a huge bragging-rights premium. When M2 is running at full capacity and target yields, LG will drive to the pricing levels needed to sell-through that much higher production volume.
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post #78 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 05:00 PM
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At this point, I'm sold oled can deliver a better picture than LCD
I don't think resolution will change that
Well it's one thing saying 'delivering a better picture' and it's quite another saying "The LG will have a picture the Sony cant even begin to match". Some might say the latter is a bit of hyperbole.

Add to that the questionable upscaling (mentioned in that mini-review) and the jury is definitely out.
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post #79 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 05:02 PM
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I agree with the up scaling tech, but I also think if 4k keeps advancing at a quick rate, upscaling will be a moot point
4K content will not be prolific for quite some time and thus upscaling quality is a major PQ issue. The deepest blacks won't do you much good if the HD>4K upscaling is questionable.
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post #80 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 05:20 PM
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Well it's one thing saying 'delivering a better picture' and it's quite another saying "The LG will have a picture the Sony cant even begin to match". Some might say the latter is a bit of hyperbole.
Not really, I don't see lcd's having the ability to match the contrast ratio of the oled's, hence the unmatched comment
I'm anti 4k, no content, only use,IMO, is a larger screen
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post #81 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 05:37 PM
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If you had a 4K camera, you wouldn't feel that way. I'm very pro 4K. Sony has an ever growing content of 4K movies, so I'm not one to dismiss the inevitability of 4K.

As for CR, yes, OLED wins, but remember that if you start with already very low MLLs and reduce them still further, you get a big increase in CR. That doesn't necessarily translate to a comparable jump in PQ. One review of the Sony 900B has already stated that in dark scenes, the Sony can actually appear darker than the ZT60. At these MLLs, I don't obsess about the last degree.

I'm simply saying that I never go just by numbers.

Aside from that there are other factors to consider in the total purchasing equation...at least for me. I still may go with OLED, but it won't be a choice made with 'blinders' on.
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post #82 of 159 Old 06-27-2014, 06:02 PM
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If you had a 4K camera, you wouldn't feel that way. I'm very pro 4K. Sony has an ever growing content of 4K movies, so I'm not one to dismiss the inevitability of 4K.

As for CR, yes, OLED wins, but remember that if you start with already very low MLLs and reduce them still further, you get a big increase in CR. That doesn't necessarily translate to a comparable jump in PQ. One review of the Sony 900B has already stated that in dark scenes, the Sony can actually appear darker than the ZT60. At these MLLs, I don't obsess about the last degree.

I'm simply saying that I never go just by numbers.

Aside from that there are other factors to consider in the total purchasing equation...at least for me. I still may go with OLED, but it won't be a choice made with 'blinders' on.
maybe I should rephrase the 4k comment I made, I'm anti 4k tvs at this time because there is Very little to watch in 4k
When there is a ton of content to choose from, I'll be all for it and
I would love a 80-90' 4k tv in my living room
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post #83 of 159 Old 06-28-2014, 06:14 AM
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According to this Inside CI article the 55 inch 4k model will be released early next year instead. But good news for those that are looking to have this year's models wall mounted, it appears they will be Vesa mount compliant
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post #84 of 159 Old 06-28-2014, 09:03 AM
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I'm anti 4k, no content, only use,IMO, is a larger screen
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maybe I should rephrase the 4k comment I made, I'm anti 4k tvs at this time because there is Very little to watch in 4k
When there is a ton of content to choose from, I'll be all for it and
I would love a 80-90' 4k tv in my living room
The "no content" thing isn't particularly damning because the existing 2K content upscales beautifully to a result IMO far nicer than 2K by itself. Have you seen the higher end Sonys upscale a 2K blu-ray? Next time BB/Mag has one going, check it out. I recently checked out a Samsung upscale as well, and while I haven't checked out as many Samsungs as I have Sonys, it did a very good job as well.

As for the size thing, 4K IMO is perfectly appropriate for most viewing scenarios for 46"+, despite the confusing analysis of others.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".

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post #85 of 159 Old 06-28-2014, 11:36 AM
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Pricing variances are truly odd with LG and I mean huge margin differentials. You go to their website and they list the 55" 9800 at $8,999. Yet for God's sake it's now easy to find one for under $4k and there's been posting on Amazon/EBay/Microcenter closer to $2500 recently. It doesn't seem that LG locking prices at artificial levels that's for sure. Chris at Cleveland AV is likely to know out of the gate the reality of street$.

I would think LG may be a bit pressured with Samsung 85" 4K arriving at under $10K that at least the 65" may be priced at street more like the Sony 950B once inventory builds out.

The 77" may be a boutique panel for the 1% crowd for awhile as they have no competition in OLED.

At least the 55" has become a realistically priced panel for many more consumers in the past year.

How would you like to be the sucker that buys the LG at their website? OUCH! Burn City.

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post #86 of 159 Old 06-28-2014, 06:46 PM
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Wait a second, so you're saying that by the end of this year, a 4K OLED 55" HDTV will cost $4,000? Did I understand that correctly?
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post #87 of 159 Old 06-29-2014, 12:54 PM
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Maybe your right but I have never been Impressed with the Sony 55900B and love the 65900B. I think 4k on a 55 is a complete waste, who sits 4 feet from their screen? I say but a 4k cell phone and hold it 2" from ur face.

I do because it feels more involving to have the screen fill your field of view.
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post #88 of 159 Old 06-29-2014, 01:09 PM
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4K content will not be prolific for quite some time and thus upscaling quality is a major PQ issue. The deepest blacks won't do you much good if the HD>4K upscaling is questionable.

AMD's eyefinity has been able to output a 4k picture for years. That's the biggest draw for me. No daisy chaining screens anymore.
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post #89 of 159 Old 06-29-2014, 03:25 PM
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Lg mention that the goal price for future 4K OLED is.... 10% higher than 4K LCD/LED

According to UBI Research, LGD ultimate goal is to reach a price premium of only 10% over LCDs. LG needs to lower the costs across the board - taking advantage of existing LCD lines and equipment, optimizing the thickness of all th display layers (TFT, organic materials and encapsulation), improving the production process times and more.

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post #90 of 159 Old 06-29-2014, 05:14 PM
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I think Oppo is going to be a big player in 4K when they release an upscale 4K player.The Oppo 83 did an amazing job with upscale on sd dvds to almost blu ray quality on my 55 inch screen.Hopefully they will come out with a player that does the same thing going from blu-ray to 4K and the almost impossible task of taking sd dvds up to 4K

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