LG EC9800 4K OLED Pricing Speculation and Tracking Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 152 Old 06-29-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
So if the above 77" prices are correct, so much for LG's proclamation that their OLEDs will be no more than 150% of the similar size LEDs. If true, my short list just got shorter.

Looks like fafrd will have to go back to the pricing conjecture drawing boards.
I don't think we will truly get to x1.5 pricing levels until both the OLED and LED release cycle are on an even keel. New releases will always command a premium price and 4K OLED will be no different ...
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post #92 of 152 Old 06-30-2014, 10:38 PM
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LG is the only 4k that is 240hz at the moment that I seen. At my local best buy they had a open box 55" for 2g the sales rep said it was never used its only open box cause the customer changed there mind and got a curved tv, I was about to buy it but then went and looked at the display and the Sony and the Samsung and with only 120hz. Both Sony and Samsung had a better picture then the LG. I asked the sales rep to take off the 4k promo that the tv comes with and to turn on regular TV (directv) and the image was pretty crazy. I walked over to the Samsung curve and I was instantly sold. 65" 240hz curved is what I ended up taking home. Looked online Samsung not showing a 240hz 4k flat or curved to December or next year
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post #93 of 152 Old 07-12-2014, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The price of Samsung HU9000 and HU8550 continues to drift lower.


Also, the 55EC9300 has been introduced into the US at a $7000 MRP and $5000 street price.


Finally, the 65EC9800 and 77EC9800 have been introduced into the UK at MSRPs or $10,000 and $30,000 (equivalent).


Unclear if there will be a 55 4K model introduced into the US and appears than LG will be focusing on 55" 1080p and 65" 4K WOLEDs in the US market (at least over the near-term).


I've updated the lead post accordingly.
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post #94 of 152 Old 07-12-2014, 09:11 PM
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Idk if anyone has seen this, but would be nice if this is actually true. There's a rumor samsung may release another oled in Q4.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1404730207
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post #95 of 152 Old 07-13-2014, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
Idk if anyone has seen this, but would be nice if this is actually true. There's a rumor samsung may release another oled in Q4.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1404730207
God how I loathe articles that repeat statements from other articles without doing any additional homework as to what those statements could possibly mean.

That article you posted is not a source by itself, and gets its information from the following etnews article:

http://english.etnews.com/device/2964163_1304.html

Within that article from etnews are statements like "According to the industry on the 6th, Samsung Display will release a new UHD resolution OLED TV panel within the year", which really make me wonder what they're talking about at all. "According to the industry" ???
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post #96 of 152 Old 07-24-2014, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated the lead thread for recent price drops. The average street price for the LG and Samsung 65" LED/LCD Flagship TVs is now below $3000.
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post #97 of 152 Old 07-24-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Also, the 55EC9300 has been introduced into the US at a $7000 MRP and $5000 street price.
Much Lower.........
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post #98 of 152 Old 07-24-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Much Lower.........

That's good - if you've got a link I'll update the post and otherwise will wait a few days for release and update accordingly...
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post #99 of 152 Old 07-24-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That's good - if you've got a link I'll update the post and otherwise will wait a few days for release and update accordingly...
Here's a link to a vendor stating that it was much lower.

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post #100 of 152 Old 07-24-2014, 10:42 PM
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Like your avatar, that link is broken...........

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post #101 of 152 Old 07-25-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Like your avatar, that link is broken...........
No, it was a joke, it's a link to your post on purpose.

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post #102 of 152 Old 07-25-2014, 08:44 AM
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So apparently these two new OLED behemoths (65"-77") will be wall mountable. That's excellent news on top of everything else. I am just not convinced on the curve or look of it.

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post #103 of 152 Old 07-26-2014, 07:04 AM
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I know I read somewhere that the OLED's are easier to produce being curved. If this is the case, I understand, otherwise we need to go back to flat

We just need a Flat 100" 4K OLED at 1/8" thick from top to bottom, maybe 100 pounds tops It would probably to big for any room in my place, but I could care less I will watch in pure bliss !
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post #104 of 152 Old 07-26-2014, 08:29 AM
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I know I read somewhere that the OLED's are easier to produce being curved.
Back when this concept first surfaced, a bunch of us set out to try to find the source of this and failed. AFAICT, it's a question that turned into speculation that morphed itself into a fact.
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post #105 of 152 Old 07-27-2014, 08:35 AM
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I really hope this price is for real it's looking like CP may have been right.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._smart_3d.html
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post #106 of 152 Old 07-27-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I really hope this price is for real it's looking like CP may have been right.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._smart_3d.html
65EC9700 for $6999
'Expected availability: September 30 2014'


If this all proves to be true, it's coming a bit later than we had hoped but is actually below the pricing levels I had been predicting (I was predicting $8000 by September 2014).


B&H is generally pretty reputable, so it would surprise me if this price was not 'for real'


More importantly, if the 65EC9700 launches for $7000 here in the US in September, I'm going to have to be more aggressive on the price I am predicting by year-end and lower it to $5000 by Black Friday.
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post #107 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 06:47 AM
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Of course street price will be less from guys like us

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post #108 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 10:22 AM
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This pricing would have me seriously rethinking my purchasing strategy. Waiting on news for the Vizio 65" Ref series. On paper it seems like a real contender. I'm a sucker for excellent black levels. The Sony 950B is a runner up. But a 65" 4K OLED at possibly less than 7k? That's almost un-imaginable right out of the gate. And might be too good to pass up if the Vizio never materializes this year or doesn't deliver on the hype.
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post #109 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally, I was thinking the only TV that might make me give up what I now own would be LG's 77" 4K OLED. But I have heard the start price will be around $29000. Way too much for this buyer. The 65" might be another matter.

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post #110 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 02:02 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
Originally, I was thinking the only TV that might make me give up what I now own would be LG's 77" 4K OLED. But I have heard the start price will be around $29000. Way too much for this buyer. The 65" might be another matter.

A
The B&H price of $7000 for the 65" is 1.4x the MSRP of the top end Samsung and Sony 65" models (ignoring 950B). My guess is they will price the 77" at 2x the 78 and 79" Sammy and Sony ($8k) making the MSRP ~$16K to begin with. If LG really wants to sell the 77", the price this time next year will be $8.0 to $9.0K MSRP based upon 1.5x the equivalent 2015 LCDs with MSRPs that have dropped to around $6K. Hope my crystal ball is accurate because I am willing to buy at a street price below $8k.
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post #111 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 02:41 PM
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The B&H price of $7000 for the 65" is 1.4x the MSRP of the top end Samsung and Sony 65" models (ignoring 950B). My guess is they will price the 77" at 2x the 78 and 79" Sammy and Sony ($8k) making the MSRP ~$16K to begin with. If LG really wants to sell the 77", the price this time next year will be $8.0 to $9.0K MSRP based upon 1.5x the equivalent 2015 LCDs with MSRPs that have dropped to around $6K. Hope my crystal ball is accurate because I am willing to buy at a street price below $8k.
I'm curious how this generation of LG OLED motion handling holds up to the Sony flagship's.

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post #112 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The B&H price of $7000 for the 65" is 1.4x the MSRP of the top end Samsung and Sony 65" models (ignoring 950B). My guess is they will price the 77" at 2x the 78 and 79" Sammy and Sony ($8k) making the MSRP ~$16K to begin with. If LG really wants to sell the 77", the price this time next year will be $8.0 to $9.0K MSRP based upon 1.5x the equivalent 2015 LCDs with MSRPs that have dropped to around $6K. Hope my crystal ball is accurate because I am willing to buy at a street price below $8k.

Sony is irrelevant to LG - Samsung and LG's own Flagship LED/LCD pricing is much more relevant. And MSRP is also far less relevant than street pricing.


B&H is selling both the Samsung UN65HU9000 and LG 65UB9800 for $4500, so the 65EA9700 is 1.6X at B&H. At other retailers, both of these TVs can be found below $3500, so the $7000 street price for the 65EA9700 is more than 2X current pricing for flagship 65" LED/LCD TV...


At a pre-release price of $7000, LG has signaled that they are serious about trying to sell the 65" WOLED this holiday season. Until they become equally serious about selling the 77" WOLED, pricing is likely to remain prohibitive ('bragging rights' only - no real volume).
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post #113 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 02:54 PM
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Sony is irrelevant to LG - Samsung and LG's own Flagship LED/LCD pricing is much more relevant.
Of course the price is relevant. The 950B is appealing to exactly the same consumer as the 65EC9700.
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post #114 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course the price is relevant. The 950B is appealing to exactly the same consumer as the 65EC9700.

Sony is going to sell an irrelevant number of 65X950B TVs this year and next. Once they drop the price down to the realm of the living (meaning about half of where they have it now), they will sell more, but it will be too late. It's a 'for show' flagship TV to help sell more of their lower-priced X900B and X850B TVs.


Samsung and LG are probably going to sell more than 100 times more 65" LED/LCD Flagship TVs than Sony sells 65X950Bs this year, and if LG does not succeed to sell significantly more 65EA9700s than Sony sells 65X950Bs by the end of 2015, WOLED will be in trouble.


Sony and Panasonic have their heads in the sand, and it is going to lead to their undoing in the TV business. LG is smarter than that.
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post #115 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
Originally, I was thinking the only TV that might make me give up what I now own would be LG's 77" 4K OLED. But I have heard the start price will be around $29000. Way too much for this buyer. The 65" might be another matter.

A
Ya but on the street I bet they are $15,000. delivered

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post #116 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post
The B&H price of $7000 for the 65" is 1.4x the MSRP of the top end Samsung and Sony 65" models (ignoring 950B). My guess is they will price the 77" at 2x the 78 and 79" Sammy and Sony ($8k) making the MSRP ~$16K to begin with. If LG really wants to sell the 77", the price this time next year will be $8.0 to $9.0K MSRP based upon 1.5x the equivalent 2015 LCDs with MSRPs that have dropped to around $6K. Hope my crystal ball is accurate because I am willing to buy at a street price below $8k.
16K for the 77", is a lot better than 25K. I hope you're right Dave.
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post #117 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 04:37 PM
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Ya but on the street I bet they are $15,000. delivered
Way to rich for my blood, my eyes will be on the 65".
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post #118 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 04:55 PM
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Sony is going to sell an irrelevant number of 65X950B TVs this year and next. Once they drop the price down to the realm of the living (meaning about half of where they have it now), they will sell more, but it will be too late. It's a 'for show' flagship TV to help sell more of their lower-priced X900B and X850B TVs.


Samsung and LG are probably going to sell more than 100 times more 65" LED/LCD Flagship TVs than Sony sells 65X950Bs this year, and if LG does not succeed to sell significantly more 65EA9700s than Sony sells 65X950Bs by the end of 2015, WOLED will be in trouble.


Sony and Panasonic have their heads in the sand, and it is going to lead to their undoing in the TV business. LG is smarter than that.
I'm not sure why any of the above matters to a customer looking at a high-end television during the 2nd half of the year. For that person, the price of the Sony matters.

It also matters for those who are interested in the long-term viability of the technology. Assuming that the projected prices are correct, the Sony will be the first LCD of a similar size to be priced close to an OLED. What happens to 950B sales? For those who do purchase the Sony set, what will have driven their decision? Picture quality? Reliability? Brand? Or will the price differential still matter?

I absolutely know that the Samsung and LG 4K LCD's will outsell the OLED. The price gap is simply too big for OLED to overcome. What I want to know is what happens when the price gap gets down below 20%.
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post #119 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure why any of the above matters to a customer looking at a high-end television during the 2nd half of the year. For that person, the price of the Sony matters.

I agree that for any customers considering the Sony 65X950B, the LG 65EA9700 matters. But for customers considering the LG 65EA9700, the Sony 65X950B doesn't really matter - LG needs far, far more customers for the 65EA9700 to absorb the M2 fab capacity than Sony needs customers for the 65X950B (which is fabless).




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It also matters for those who are interested in the long-term viability of the technology. Assuming that the projected prices are correct, the Sony will be the first LCD of a similar size to be priced close to an OLED. What happens to 950B sales? For those who do purchase the Sony set, what will have driven their decision? Picture quality? Reliability? Brand? Or will the price differential still matter?

I agree that concern for the long-term viability of LGs WOLED initiative is warranted. My point is that the volume of Sony 65X950B sales is going to be too miniscule to provide any relevant indication of that. Even if LG takes every single sale that otherwise would have gone to the Sony 65X950B, it will do nothing meaningful to improve LGs position. They need to be cutting into sales of the Samsung UN65HU9000 and their own 65UB9800 (as well as the 65" Vizio R Series if it ends up materializing).


Everything you are saying regarding the 65X950B is valid at the outset when the 65EA9700 has just launched, but by year-end when M2 is running at close to full capacity of 4000 55" WOLEDs or 2000 65" WOLEDs a day (!!!) the Sony 65X950B is going to be irrelevant.


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I absolutely know that the Samsung and LG 4K LCD's will outsell the OLED. The price gap is simply too big for OLED to overcome. What I want to know is what happens when the price gap gets down below 20%.

You and me both :-)


At $7000, the OLED is about 200% the price of the Samsung and LG flagship LED/LCDs (ie: 100% premium for the WOLED). Before the premium gets down to 20%, it needs to get down to 50% (WOLED costs 150% of LED/LCD).


At today's street pricing for 65" LED/LCD flagships of ~$3500, that would mean $5250 for the 65EA9700. I'm predicting we'll see that pricing sometime between Christmas and mid-2015 (depending on how quickly the M2 line gets ramped to full capacity).
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post #120 of 152 Old 07-28-2014, 06:03 PM
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I agree that concern for the long-term viability of LGs WOLED initiative is warranted. My point is that the volume of Sony 65X950B sales is going to be too miniscule to provide any relevant indication of that. Even if LG takes every single sale that otherwise would have gone to the Sony 65X950B, it will do nothing meaningful to improve LGs position. They need to be cutting into sales of the Samsung UN65HU9000 and their own 65UB9800 (as well as the 65" Vizio R Series if it ends up materializing).

Everything you are saying regarding the 65X950B is valid at the outset when the 65EA9700 has just launched, but by year-end when M2 is running at close to full capacity of 4000 55" WOLEDs or 2000 65" WOLEDs a day (!!!) the Sony 65X950B is going to be irrelevant.
The fab is not going to be fully ramped until sometime in 2015, and if the translations are correct, probably late in the year.

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At $7000, the OLED is about 200% the price of the Samsung and LG flagship LED/LCDs (ie: 100% premium for the WOLED). Before the premium gets down to 20%, it needs to get down to 50% (WOLED costs 150% of LED/LCD).

At today's street pricing for 65" LED/LCD flagships of ~$3500, that would mean $5250 for the 65EA9700. I'm predicting we'll see that pricing sometime between Christmas and mid-2015 (depending on how quickly the M2 line gets ramped to full capacity).
You are looking too far down the road. I think we'll get some idea about OLED's viability in the 2nd half of this year. It wont be definitive, but it will certainly be far more information than we have now.

The concept of OLED's getting the premium within 20% of LCD's is very imprecise. There are lots and lots of LCD models. It is going to happen on a model by model basis and the Sony 950b is the guinea pig. We wont get precise numbers, but if the price is within 20%, I want to see all of the anecdotal data points to be pointing towards the 9700 to be outselling the 950b. If that doesnt happen, LG is going to have a problem.
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