LG in Talks to Supply OLED Panels to Panasonic - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jmaccool View Post
That is because the general public are very ill-informed and quick to beleive the blue suits at BestBuy and the like. I for one wish I could aford the last of the plasmas right now, even if I could justifing one would be a hard asle for the wife.
That is exactly my point. The early stages of burn-in ruined the plasma name. If the same is true for OLED, it will suffer the same fate. Even today when I talk about a plasma TV with the average joe their first response is something about burn in.
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post #32 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 08:29 AM
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In march Panasonic was very negative about OLED. Remember Craig Cunningham? ''as soon as that (OLED) can get to price points that are affordable '' ''at the moment, it's (OLED) just not there. For the time being, it's just going to be about 4K and about smart TV'' ''the technology is set to keep consumers waiting for a while longer yet'' ''i've seen OLED from other companies and six months after they have been bought the deterioration in the quality of the panel was phenomenal''
http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...romise-1236925

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/o...says-panasonic

In the UK Shootout thread in a informal discussion about manufacturers was stated that Panasonic's higher management isn't really interested in TVs, they want to get out of the TV business.
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-an...oot-out?page=5


Seems to me that Panasonic is focusing on 4K LED the next few years and if that does not work out they will probably leave the TV business behind and concentrate on appliances and hair dryers
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post #33 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 08:45 AM
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The one thing that could save OLED would be Apple OLEDs--AVS edition--built by the Chinese. If that couldn't work--nothing would!
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post #34 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 08:52 AM
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The one thing that could save OLED would be Apple OLEDs--AVS edition--built by the Chinese. If that couldn't work--nothing would!
If the macbooks with retina display made by LG suffer burn-in, I would be scared for a TV
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post #35 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
''i've seen OLED from other companies and six months after they have been bought the deterioration in the quality of the panel was phenomenal''
also noted:Cunningham did explain that if OLED does indeed become the next big home entertainment revolution, though, Panasonic would be ready
if this thread title is true, it would make me think that LG did manufacture a good OLED product that was able to overcome the deterioration issues

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post #36 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 10:54 AM
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post #37 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 11:39 AM
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My next upgrade 4k oled
Same here.....will wait until a decently priced 75-85" - 4K OLED comes out.

Paul
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post #38 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:14 PM
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Same here.....will wait until a decently priced 75-85" - 4K OLED comes out.

Paul

I am waiting for the wall applications for OLED and similartech. The whole movement feels like this is what is going to happen in the not toodistant future. With 4 and 8 K sets on the rise and OLED screens being made asthin as a few stacks of paper which generate no heat the logical next step is topaint or laminate it to a wall. You could change the color of your room, putdigital art all throughout your house and have a wall size or select a screen size youwant with a touch screen, just draw the approximate size with your fingers. Ithink the lighting side of OLED world needs to be the focus point right now to get the manufacturingprocess fine tuned and then off to the walls. They do not need the displays or lightfixtures if you prefer to do as much per display at least in the colorgeneration side in comparison to a TV. They will most likely tackle all lightspectrums over the different types of light spectrum fixtures. I feel this ismore than possible right now but, cost, acceptance and product qualtity are the onlyhurdles I see and that is always the case with any product.

John M.
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post #39 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:25 PM
 
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^How long would you be willing to wait? My patience is wearing thin (no pun intended) personally. OLED paint being in the not too distant future still sounds like scifi at this point. Laminate, maybe?
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post #40 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:35 PM
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^How long would you be willing to wait? My patience is wearing thin (no pun intended) personally. OLED paint being in the not too distant future still sounds like scifi at this point. Laminate, maybe?
It has been worked out and is being tested as we speak, they have even come up with a process to incorperate solar cells (photovoltaics) in with the oleds to help power them. There are even ciompanies working on a spry technology and it is suposedly real and alreay here.

How does DuPont plan to reduce cost so dramatically? It's using a "spray-printing" technique to pattern OLED materials onto a display, with a 50-inch TV panel theoretically able to be printed in under two minutes. The process isn't fully optimized yet, but the company just let it be known in its Q4 2011 earnings call that it's made $20 million in licensing the technique, likely to the unnamed Asian manufacturer of AMOLEDs it signed last year. We already know that LG Display makes the cost-effective OLED panel in LG's 55-inch OLED TV, and Bloomberg speculated back in November that DuPont's partner could be Samsung — the only other company to have announced a large OLED TV for 2012. If true, then that's a rare reversal of roles for US companies who typically provide design — not components and process technology — to a manufacturing supply chain dominated by Asian companies.
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post #41 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jmaccool View Post
I am waiting for the wall applications for OLED and similartech. The whole movement feels like this is what is going to happen in the not toodistant future. With 4 and 8 K sets on the rise and OLED screens being made asthin as a few stacks of paper which generate no heat the logical next step is topaint or laminate it to a wall. You could change the color of your room, putdigital art all throughout your house and have a wall size or select a screen size youwant with a touch screen, just draw the approximate size with your fingers. Ithink the lighting side of OLED world needs to be the focus point right now to get the manufacturingprocess fine tuned and then off to the walls. They do not need the displays or lightfixtures if you prefer to do as much per display at least in the colorgeneration side in comparison to a TV. They will most likely tackle all lightspectrums over the different types of light spectrum fixtures. I feel this ismore than possible right now but, cost, acceptance and product qualtity are the onlyhurdles I see and that is always the case with any product.

John M.
Join this with ultra-D 3D glasses free technology and you have a winner.
I'm no expert but we aren't going to see this kind of OLED technology on the next 10 years, right? Although it would be awesome to have something like this home.
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post #42 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:46 PM
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Join this with ultra-D 3D glasses free technology and you have a winner.
I'm no expert but we aren't going to see this kind of OLED technology on the next 10 years, right? Although it would be awesome to have something like this home.

It is always about dollars and cents, if the dollars arethere major corporations will make these as it makes sense (or cents) torelease it. Really the RD is already there on many fronts, sooner than laterthey have to recoup their money.
John M.
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post #43 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:49 PM
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By finding customers for its panels, LG are able to offset the financial risk involved in gearing up mass manufacturing facilities in the first place. They'll also be producing increased volumes not just for themselves but for sale to other companies, which should help them to continue driving down the manufacturing costs to levels more competitive with conventional TV technology.

Remember, it's not in LG's interests to produce a product priced so high that it does not sell. They obviously hope these will become mass-market items, and that they will be at the top of the manufacturing chain.

Desk

You think LG will sell more panels because other vendors are offering OLED TVs and this will in turn drive down production costs which will then allow more OLED TVs to be sold, etc... . It seems like a pretty big assumption that people who wouldn't buy an LG because of the high price would buy a Panasonic at a higher price. Assuming LG is going to make some profit supplying the panels to Panasonic. Otherwise, why would they bother?
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post #44 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 12:50 PM
 
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OLED printing tech...that's another one of those just around the corner for years developments. It's little more than a concept at this point, no proof of mass manufacturing being possible, what the yields are, etc.
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post #45 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 01:04 PM
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You think LG will sell more panels because other vendors are offering OLED TVs and this will in turn drive down production costs which will then allow more OLED TVs to be sold, etc... . It seems like a pretty big assumption that people who wouldn't buy an LG because of the high price would buy a Panasonic at a higher price. Assuming LG is going to make some profit supplying the panels to Panasonic. Otherwise, why would they bother?
LG Display and LG Electronics are not the same company, though LGE does own 38% of LG Display. LG Display is losing a huge amount of money on OLED's right now and will sell the panels to any interested companies. The economics of displays suck unless you are operating your fabs at near capacity.
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post #46 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 01:18 PM
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I think I will pass on this oled thing. I already have a 65inch plasma. I think my next move will be a projector with a 120inch fixed screen. But, you never know. At my local Fry's they have a 50inch oled display from LG and WOW! This TV is has a razor sharp picture, nice fluid motion, and litterally paper thin.

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post #47 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 01:48 PM
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Let me get out my time machine and go back 10+ years to when these sorts of things were being promised with regards to OLED before.
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post #48 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 04:36 PM
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It has been worked out and is being tested as we speak, they have even come up with a process to incorperate solar cells (photovoltaics) in with the oleds to help power them. There are even ciompanies working on a spry technology and it is suposedly real and alreay here.

How does DuPont plan to reduce cost so dramatically? It's using a "spray-printing" technique to pattern OLED materials onto a display, with a 50-inch TV panel theoretically able to be printed in under two minutes. The process isn't fully optimized yet, but the company just let it be known in its Q4 2011 earnings call that it's made $20 million in licensing the technique, likely to the unnamed Asian manufacturer of AMOLEDs it signed last year. We already know that LG Display makes the cost-effective OLED panel in LG's 55-inch OLED TV, and Bloomberg speculated back in November that DuPont's partner could be Samsung — the only other company to have announced a large OLED TV for 2012. If true, then that's a rare reversal of roles for US companies who typically provide design — not components and process technology — to a manufacturing supply chain dominated by Asian companies.
I'm sorry, but do you see the dates in all that material? That's the story of OLED in microcosm. Promise, underdeliver. Promise, underdeliver.

It's 2014. Samsung has no active OLED TV facility.

This amazing "spray printing" is not being talked about by anyone....
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #49 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 06:08 PM
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I'm sorry, but do you see the dates in all that material? That's the story of OLED in microcosm. Promise, underdeliver. Promise, underdeliver.

It's 2014. Samsung has no active OLED TV facility.

This amazing "spray printing" is not being talked about by anyone....
I get where you are coming from but my guess is that it will happen, just a matter of OLED success and a bit more R & D but printing is not even needed with the thin substrates they have. Either way with 4K & 8K being pushed I feel it is in direct connection to the eventual use on a much larger surface. To me the way so many people have mounted their TV's to their walls, OLED's super thin near heatless design and the doubling and quadrupling of lines of resolution it is so very clear where this will/could go.
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post #50 of 98 Old 06-17-2014, 07:36 PM
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I assume they're hoping OLED will replace plasma? It does sound odds for LG and Panasonic to cooperate. Why are they? Is it because they're trying to push the new tech?
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It's not LG, mind you, but LGD. It wouldn't be the first time Panasonic (or any Japanese entity) has bought panels from LGD and rebranded them as their own. The only difference is the underlying tech.
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post #52 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 03:15 AM
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How does the spraying/painting OLED works? For those of us that don't work in the technology area, seems impossible something like this to work. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just liked to know how is that possible.
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post #53 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 05:40 AM
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LG Display and LG Electronics are not the same company, though LGE does own 38% of LG Display. LG Display is losing a huge amount of money on OLED's right now and will sell the panels to any interested companies. The economics of displays suck unless you are operating your fabs at near capacity.

You're missing the point. It doesn't really matter which company is making the panels. The bottom line is all the panels are being made by a single company and the price for OLED TVs is expensive because it costs a lot for the manufacturer to make the panels. Selling half the viable panels to Panasonic and half to LG as opposed to selling all the panels to LG isn't going to change that.


The market for OLED TVs is being dictated entirely by how much LG Display charges for the panels. Regardless of who is buying them. If the price for a 60" OLED TV is say $5,000, it won't matter if Panasonic and LG both sell basically the same TV for $5,000. What will matter is the number of people willing to shell out $5,000 for an OLED TV.
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post #54 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 05:43 AM
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How does the spraying/painting OLED works? For those of us that don't work in the technology area, seems impossible something like this to work. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just liked to know how is that possible.

It's not really sprayed. It's printed. It works basically the same way an inkjet printer works. At least in theory.
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post #55 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 05:59 AM
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You're missing the point. It doesn't really matter which company is making the panels. The bottom line is all the panels are being made by a single company and the price for OLED TVs is expensive because it costs a lot for the manufacturer to make the panels. Selling half the viable panels to Panasonic and half to LG as opposed to selling all the panels to LG isn't going to change that.


The market for OLED TVs is being dictated entirely by how much LG Display charges for the panels. Regardless of who is buying them. If the price for a 60" OLED TV is say $5,000, it won't matter if Panasonic and LG both sell basically the same TV for $5,000. What will matter is the number of people willing to shell out $5,000 for an OLED TV.
If the end price to the consumer is $5000, LG Display is selling that panel for less than $2500. The rest is additional costs (electronics, shipping, manufacturing, warranty, etc) and margin (manufacturer plus vendor). Vizio takes the same panels that everybody else is buying at similar prices and eviscerates the costs in the rest of the chain. The Chinese vendors may be able to do that for OLED's though that will mostly take place within China.

With Panasonic, it is more about possible quality improvements and customer choice. LGE is not going to make enough different models to supply all of the possible consumer configurations, nor would they likely get the floor space in retail to do so. Some want flat versions, some want lower gaming lag, or a different stand, or zero pixel defects, etc. The list goes on and on.

So yes, I do think that bringing on more OLED television vendors will ultimately increase total OLED units sales. That helps fill the fab which brings down per unit cost and possibly allows LG Display to build a 2nd fab.
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post #56 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 03:01 PM
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That is exactly my point. The early stages of burn-in ruined the plasma name. If the same is true for OLED, it will suffer the same fate. Even today when I talk about a plasma TV with the average joe their first response is something about burn in.
True, burn in hasn't been an issue at least since around 2008 or so. I used my panny plasma as a computer monitor all the time with no burn in whatsoever.

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post #57 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 03:46 PM
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Get to buying those OLEDs you fat pockets and early adopters!

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post #58 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 03:48 PM
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True, burn in hasn't been an issue at least since around 2008 or so. I used my panny plasma as a computer monitor all the time with no burn in whatsoever.

"One dog barks at a shadow and a thousand others take it for reality" -Ancient Chinese Proverb
Actually its always been and continues to be a problem. About 40% of plasma production has serious IR and Burn In issues. You had to weed through returns to get a good un.

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post #59 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 04:18 PM
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If the macbooks with retina display made by LG suffer burn-in, I would be scared for a TV
Is that true? If so that's really a pity.

I was at Magnolia today looking at the 55" OLED. They were running a letterboxed cartoon of some sort (really great material to assess PQ...not) and the only way I could get it to go full-screen to see if there were any issues, was to bring up the Home menu. Once that came up, I was able to see the IR from the letterboxing.

I'm assuming it was just IR, but who knows?
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^Probably, but you're right, no way of being 100% sure. I've been able to get rid of all traces of letterbox IR but it still requires one to be conscientious.
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