LG in Talks to Supply OLED Panels to Panasonic - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Is that true? If so that's really a pity.

I was at Magnolia today looking at the 55" OLED. They were running a letterboxed cartoon of some sort (really great material to assess PQ...not) and the only way I could get it to go full-screen to see if there were any issues, was to bring up the Home menu. Once that came up, I was able to see the IR from the letterboxing.

I'm assuming it was just IR, but who knows?
Yes the panel lottery with macs is worse than the tv lottery.
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post #62 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 04:35 PM
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Wow! That's hard to believe considering how bad it is with TVs.
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post #63 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
^Probably, but you're right, no way of being 100% sure. I've been able to get rid of all traces of letterbox IR but it still requires one to be conscientious.
Vinnie, more so than plasma? Do you find yourself doing the 'wipearoo' more with OLED?
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post #64 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 04:38 PM
 
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For letterbox IR, most definitely. The Panasonic is much more resilient to that type of IR, but the OLED does better with logos and HUDs (haven't had the chance to put it through the paces concerning the latter as of yet because I've only watched movies on it so far).
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post #65 of 98 Old 06-18-2014, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Wow! That's hard to believe considering how bad it is with TVs.
Hard to believe because it's not remotely true... But then this thread is spreading canards like you have a 50-50 chance of your plasma burning in right now, so why let facts get in the fact of a good nonsense meme, right?

Anyway....

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #66 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Hard to believe because it's not remotely true... But then this thread is spreading canards like you have a 50-50 chance of your plasma burning in right now, so why let facts get in the fact of a good nonsense meme, right?

Anyway....
What I said about Macbooks with retina displays is 100% true.
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post #67 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
For letterbox IR, most definitely. The Panasonic is much more resilient to that type of IR, but the OLED does better with logos and HUDs (haven't had the chance to put it through the paces concerning the latter as of yet because I've only watched movies on it so far).
Vinnie, so it seems it doesn't like its LED off for prolonged periods as much as on, even if those 'on' LEDs are static in nature (logos).

To be honest, the static logos are more of a concern for me than the letterbox issue. When I think of the overall content we watch, there's probably more static logo material going on than letterboxing...especially for my wife. With that said, what would happen if you followed a letterboxed movie with full-screen material for the same amount of time...say 2 hours. Would that largely solve whatever IR was seen with the letterboxed movie?

I'm not sure I understand why there would be this difference with OLED, but I'm sure there's some technical explanation.
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post #68 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 08:48 AM
 
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I believe it would (be efficacious in getting rid of letterbox IR). I'll try that method the next chance I get, but I believe I saw similar improvement when trying said method a ways back. Since the Samsung OLED doesn't behave like this as far as I know, it's something in particular relating to LG's implementation and, as theorized by some, possibly the IGZO backplane technology that still remains immature.
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post #69 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 08:56 AM
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^ Good to hear.
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post #70 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post
By finding customers for its panels, LG are able to offset the financial risk involved in gearing up mass manufacturing facilities in the first place. They'll also be producing increased volumes not just for themselves but for sale to other companies, which should help them to continue driving down the manufacturing costs to levels more competitive with conventional TV technology.

Remember, it's not in LG's interests to produce a product priced so high that it does not sell. They obviously hope these will become mass-market items, and that they will be at the top of the manufacturing chain.

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I have a theory that LG would really like to see Apple slap its logo on these TVs, but it has to ramp up production capacity and prove it can handle the demand such a move would generate before Cupertino commits. It's my own personal theory with nothing to back it up.
Desk, you may be interested in this rhetorical bit I posted on the Apple ITV a little over a month ago: Is Samsung Giving Up On OLED TV?

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Samsung is more of a copycat company. I am looking forward to a pioneer to make a good 65 OLED. Could it be Apple with LG panels? http://www.geek.com/apple/prototype-...panel-1590375/
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post #71 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
Actually its always been and continues to be a problem. About 40% of plasma production has serious IR and Burn In issues. You had to weed through returns to get a good un.
Would you like to link us to a source for this statistic or should we just reference your butt?
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post #72 of 98 Old 06-19-2014, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Hard to believe because it's not remotely true... But then this thread is spreading canards like you have a 50-50 chance of your plasma burning in right now, so why let facts get in the fact of a good nonsense meme, right?

Anyway....
Agreed. It's frightening how quickly people will accept what they read on the internet with zero evidence or validity to back it up.

Now pardon me while I go take some of these diet pills I saw on the Dr. Oz show...
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post #73 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 12:46 AM
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One of the things one has to remember is that people are more quickly to complain when things aren't working than they are to complement when things are working. Likewise, in a repair department, one sees far more broken units than good units, just because the vast number of units show up only because they are not working. It's easy to be fooled when there is a massive sampling bias and one isn't looking at total sold vs. total returned or repaired within the warranty period.

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post #74 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 06:34 AM
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What I said about Macbooks with retina displays is 100% true.

We have several macs, macbooks, ipads here in the family and have for years. Not even a trace of IR.
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post #75 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 07:59 AM
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We have several macs, macbooks, ipads here in the family and have for years. Not even a trace of IR.
It was a specific issue related to retina display on Mac Book Pro only. LCD screens should not have burn in but sometimes manufacturing defects can cause this IR issue. I saw it reported from time to time but very rarely, e.g. some early Dell laptops, LCD RPTVs etc.
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post #76 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 08:21 AM
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...Now pardon me while I go take some of these diet pills I saw on the Dr. Oz show...
Ha!

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post #77 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 01:10 PM
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We have a retina display macbook pro. No issues.
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post #78 of 98 Old 06-20-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
We have several macs, macbooks, ipads here in the family and have for years. Not even a trace of IR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
It was a specific issue related to retina display on Mac Book Pro only. LCD screens should not have burn in but sometimes manufacturing defects can cause this IR issue. I saw it reported from time to time but very rarely, e.g. some early Dell laptops, LCD RPTVs etc.
What fox said. I was strictly referring to MacBook Pros with retina display. More specially retina displays with the LG panels. They make them with AUO, samsung, and LG panels. The LGs were notorious for IR and even burn in.
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post #79 of 98 Old 06-21-2014, 05:21 PM
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Again, words like "notorious" are best left for problems which are actual common, not rare. The internet magnifies the small into the big and allows this kind of innuendo to race around like a Toyota with unintended acceleration (also, mostly a myth, by the way).

Did some Retina Macbooks have this issue? I imagine so. Some Macbook Airs have some other weird screen-blanking problem, too. Mine is from that series/year. Yet it doesn't have it at all. So how widespread could that problem be? Well, statistically, even 1 person without it suggests it's well below 100%. And since I've seen dozens of those machines in the wild and have yet to encounter a person who even knows what I am talking about, I'd bet it's actually less than 10%. "Notorious"? Hardly.

The situation with image retention is actually a lower threshold than that. You can tell because even on the screaming, ranting message boards, there are few mentions of it. And the machines in the Apple stores don't exhibit it at any of the Apple stores near me (5 I visited since this came up, by the way).
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #80 of 98 Old 07-11-2014, 06:50 PM
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Why are LG the only ones currently making OLED? Do they have some sort of legal grip on the model, or are they just the only ones who've been interested so far?
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post #81 of 98 Old 07-11-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
Why are LG the only ones currently making OLED? Do they have some sort of legal grip on the model, or are they just the only ones who've been interested so far?
Apparently LG is successful at it, while Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic gave up on it.

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post #82 of 98 Old 07-11-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
Why are LG the only ones currently making OLED? Do they have some sort of legal grip on the model, or are they just the only ones who've been interested so far?
I think it's a combination of persistence and their bet on WRGB panels paying off.

Edit: that last part is still slightly speculative at this point. WRGB panels have better yields, cheaper to manufacture and-- supposedly-- don't suffer the uneven sub pixel aging the true RGB panels from samsung do. But the reliability and longevity of OLED is still very much a question mark.

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post #83 of 98 Old 07-11-2014, 07:28 PM
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Apparently LG is successful at it, while Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic gave up on it.
Panasonic and sony really haven't given up on OLED but they have shelved plans for manufacturing large panel OLEDs themselves. Probably a wise choice considering their tenuous positions in the market and the fact they haven't made money off TVs in years.
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post #84 of 98 Old 07-11-2014, 09:25 PM
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And that's likely the key to LG being the only significant OLED player right now. All those others have put in their time and effort to bring top quality display panels to the market at one time or another and all have lost their arses doing so. This is the first time LG has stepped up to the plate as a panel market technology leader. If they end up hemorrhaging money like all those which came before, they'll drop back to the mediocre middle again as well.

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post #85 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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I find it strange if this is actually true. LG have an OLED headstart on Samsung and Panasonic and Sony... Yet they are in talks to supply Panasonic with OLED panels

Why would they do that when then Panasonic put better processing and/or components inside then take the limelight away from LG themselves when using an actual LG display when it receives better (perhaps) reviews in the future.

Won't they just be shooting themselves in the foot basically. Unless they can sell their own electronics vastly cheaper than Panasonic and gain further momentum that way regardless if Panasonic rely on LG for the panels themselves or not.
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post #86 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post
I find it strange if this is actually true. LG have an OLED headstart on Samsung and Panasonic and Sony... Yet they are in talks to supply Panasonic with OLED panels

Why would they do that when then Panasonic put better processing and/or components inside then take the limelight away from LG themselves when using an actual LG display when it receives better (perhaps) reviews in the future.

Won't they just be shooting themselves in the foot basically. Unless they can sell their own electronics vastly cheaper than Panasonic and gain further momentum that way regardless if Panasonic rely on LG for the panels themselves or not.

My guess is if they don't do this, then every other manufacturer will put all their marbles in LCD and give OLED more competition. I think LG is more concerned with OLEDs survival than who gets what piece of the pie right now.
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post #87 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post
I find it strange if this is actually true. LG have an OLED headstart on Samsung and Panasonic and Sony... Yet they are in talks to supply Panasonic with OLED panels

Why would they do that when then Panasonic put better processing and/or components inside then take the limelight away from LG themselves when using an actual LG display when it receives better (perhaps) reviews in the future.

Won't they just be shooting themselves in the foot basically. Unless they can sell their own electronics vastly cheaper than Panasonic and gain further momentum that way regardless if Panasonic rely on LG for the panels themselves or not.
LG Display is the actual maker of the panels (not LG) and they have been making panels for other companies for years-- that's what they do. What is interesting is that OLED yields and prices must have come down enough for panasonic to consider buying!

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post #88 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 12:49 PM
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LG Display is the actual maker of the panels (not LG) and they have been making panels for other companies for years-- that's what they do. What is interesting is that OLED yields and prices must have come down enough for panasonic to consider buying!
Yes im aware of that. But it doesn't make sense to me really. Yeah they have been punting out lcd panels etc etc forever to the highest bidder but when a headstart is there why not just keep it there.

Let the other manufacturers worry about it.

You have something good going - keep it. Pioneer wouldn't in a month of sundays shared their Kuro plasma technology with LG, Samsung or Panasonic when they had it their own when still in the display business. Although it went horribly wrong in the end you keep your technological advantages.

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post #89 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 01:32 PM
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Yes im aware of that. But it doesn't make sense to me really. Yeah they have been punting out lcd panels etc etc forever to the highest bidder but when a headstart is there why not just keep it there.

Let the other manufacturers worry about it.

You have something good going - keep it. Pioneer wouldn't in a month of sundays shared their Kuro plasma technology with LG, Samsung or Panasonic when they had it their own when still in the display business. Although it went horribly wrong in the end you keep your technological advantages.
Maybe if they had they would have cut their costs per unit enough to keep their own panels profitable.

Also, LG Display is in the business of making panels-- as many as possible-- you don't expect them to survive on only what LG purchases for their own sets do you? I'm not sure of the number of 55" sets LG manufactured but it couldn't have been very many. I mean, how many people do you know willing to drop 5k+ on a 55"? The price of those sets was a direct reflection of the economy of making them. At this point the biggest obstacle to OLED is cost/yield. More buyers equals more panels produced, less cost per panel, and more money back into R&D. They are already selling OLED panels to the Chinese so why not Panasonic?

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post #90 of 98 Old 07-15-2014, 02:14 PM
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Maybe if they had they would have cut their costs per unit enough to keep their own panels profitable.

Also, LG Display is in the business of making panels-- as many as possible-- you don't expect them to survive on only what LG purchases for their own sets do you? I'm not sure of the number of 55" sets LG manufactured but it couldn't have been very many. I mean, how many people do you know willing to drop 5k+ on a 55"? The price of those sets was a direct reflection of the economy of making them. At this point the biggest obstacle to OLED is cost/yield. More buyers equals more panels produced, less cost per panel, and more money back into R&D. They are already selling OLED panels to the Chinese so why not Panasonic?
You are missing my point. But will the Chinese put in electronics better than the Japanese to drive this technology. Highly unlikely.

I can't be bothered with display companies happy to be meat and potatoes.

LG when this OLED all takes off (when and if it does) will once more be known as the middle of the road amongst the electronic giants names in the world of videophiles.

Come on Sony - bring us one day Crystal LED. And for goodness sake - keep it to yourselves
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