LG 55EC9300 55" OLED Anticipation thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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LG 55EC9300 55" OLED Anticipation thread

Since it's now being listed as 'Usually ships within 3 to 5 weeks' at Amazon and 'New Item, Available for pre-order' at B&H, it's just a matter of time before this first of the Gen-2 LG WOLEDs has owners here on the Forum: http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics...iglink20246-20


Amazon lists the 55EC9300 as having 'Refresh Rate: 240Hz (Native); Ultra Clarity Index : 1500 (Effective)' so it appears LG has made a significant improvement in native refresh rate and probably also introduced some kind of impulse mode for further reduction of pixel ON time (and corresponding S&H-based motion blur).


In addition the Title for the 55EC9300 on Amazon says: 'LG Electronics 55EC9300 55-Inch 1080p 999Hz 3D OLED TV' so this may imply an impulse-mode / black frame insertion that reduces pixel ON time to as little as 25% (~1ms pixel ON time @ 240Hz refresh).


Lastly, while the MSRP is listed as $7000, the prelaunch discount of $2000 translates into an introductory street price of $5000 - about where the Gen-1 55EA9800 was priced 6 months ago.


Since Plague seems to have become fed-up with his Gen-1 55EA9800, which I believe he effectively paid about $5000 for, I'll be the first to suggest that he try to organize a swap for a 55EC9300 as soon as his TV retailer has some in stock.


For the rest of us mere mortals, I'll be interested in first user reviews once someone has gotten ahold of one of these Gen-2 WOLEDs. The upgrade in motion resolution appears to be significant and I am hoping it is matched by similar upgrades in the areas of IR, pixel lifetime, and near-black greyscale uniformity.


My prediction is that the 55EC9300 will be selling for ~$4000 as soon as the M2 production line ramps up to volume, possibly in as little as 2-3 months from now, and that the 55EC9300 will be available for ~$3000 by the year-end holiday shopping season.
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post #2 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Found this in the manual:


"-If a fixed image displays on the TV screen for a long period of time, it will be imprinted and become a permanent disfigurement on the screen. This is image burn or burn-in and not covered by the warranty.

-If the aspect ratio of the TV is set to 4:3 for a long period of time, image burn may occur on the letterboxed area of the screen.

-Avoid displaying a fixed image on the TV screen for a long period of time (1 or more hours for OLED). to prevent image burn.

-Preventing Screen Burn
Displaying still images, such as a station’s logo, subtitle, screen menu, video game or computer screen, for a long time may damage the screen, causing screen burn which can remain for a long time or never disappear. Do not display still images for over an hour."

Last edited by fafrd; 07-12-2014 at 08:54 PM.
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post #3 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 07:58 PM
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That screen burn nonsense in the manual has nothing to do with OLED per say. It's in all LGs manuals, including their LCD TVs, plasma TVs, etc.


Always thought that they would be using BFI in the next gen OLED, and still not sure why the 1st gen didn't have BFI as well. Could be the rumor of significant increase in brightness for gen 2?

Who cares about 55" 1080p anyway, bring on the 4k sets already. 77" for under 10 0000 please.
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post #4 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 08:16 PM
 
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Yea, find any old manual for a random TV model from LG, and that warning is listed.
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post #5 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 08:29 PM
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Yeah my LG LCD says the same thing in my user manual. So fafrd I dont think its good to use those big and black letters, its nothing new, and might create confusion.

Well the LG EC9300 OLED has a 10-bit panel that might help in the uneven grays.

Also I read that the EC9300 comes with 500cd brightness vs the 350cd of the EA9700-9800.

As a gamer Im a bit worried the extra hz and motion technologies of the EC9300 adds some flickering to the picture, like the scanning backlight on my LG LCD LED. Well if game mode disables all those motion technologies I will have no issues.
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post #6 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 08:32 PM
 
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And I'm sure that increased brightness has a lot to do with enabling them to introduce enhanced motion resolution compensation. I wonder if I can get LG to switch me out with this model.
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post #7 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
And I'm sure that increased brightness has a lot to do with enabling them to introduce enhanced motion resolution compensation. I wonder if I can get LG to switch me out with this model.
Yes you can. You just have to wait a few months till the current model is "discontinued" and request a swap for the current equivalent model. I've done this before, and if you escalate it past tier 1 tech support, you can get it done as soon as the new model comes out.

That's why I never freak out about "issues" that are within the warranty period, as I've always gotten serviced. You just have to know how to talk with customer service
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post #8 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Morning5 View Post
Yeah my LG LCD says the same thing in my user manual. So fafrd I dont think its good to use those big and black letters, its nothing new, and might create confusion.

Well the LG EC9300 OLED has a 10-bit panel that might help in the uneven grays.

Also I read that the EC9300 comes with 500cd brightness vs the 350cd of the EA9700-9800.

As a gamer Im a bit worried the extra hz and motion technologies of the EC9300 adds some flickering to the picture, like the scanning backlight on my LG LCD LED. Well if game mode disables all those motion technologies I will have no issues.

Thanks for the heads-up - I'll go back and remove the bold and underlining from the earlier post (though in the other LG manuals I had seen, I didn't think I saw the explicit limitation to 1 hour...).


Where did you see the reference to brightness specifications? Was it in a review or a formal spec somewhere? The specs on LGs website including the user manual are very sparse and do not include brightness that I could see.


500 Nit reduced to 25% would result in 125 Nit, just above the target brightness for dark-room viewing of 120 Nit, so that would be very doable.


Was the 55EA9800 a 60Hz native refresh panel with a 50% impulse-mode (120Hz Effective Refresh Rate)? If so, the 55EC9300 represents 8X the motion resolution of the 55EA9800 (or 2X the motion resolution when Motion Interpolation is disabled).
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post #9 of 518 Old 07-12-2014, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Thanks for the heads-up - I'll go back and remove the bold and underlining from the earlier post (though in the other LG manuals I had seen, I didn't think I saw the explicit limitation to 1 hour...).


Where did you see the reference to brightness specifications? Was it in a review or a formal spec somewhere? The specs on LGs website including the user manual are very sparse and do not include brightness that I could see.


500 Nit reduced to 25% would result in 125 Nit, just above the target brightness for dark-room viewing of 120 Nit, so that would be very doable.


Was the 55EA9800 a 60Hz native refresh panel with a 50% impulse-mode (120Hz Effective Refresh Rate)? If so, the 55EC9300 represents 8X the motion resolution of the 55EA9800 (or 2X the motion resolution when Motion Interpolation is disabled).
"The 2014-Series from LG reaches 500cd/m² maximum brightness (before 350cd/m²) and the ABL is reduced to 200cd/m² (before 90cd/m²)."

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-fla...l#post24709067 post 9656 by ALMA.

ALMA says this: "For me ABL reduction only to 200cd/m² (white picture) is very good and more than enough. Even in daylight I never need more than that (100-150cd/m² is fine for me) and also in stores it´s bright enough to compete with LCD. 500cd/m² is also comparable to LCD maximum brightness. LG´s OLED first generation looks very good in stores against all the LCDs around it. Colors are bright and pop, high contrast, perfect black level, much better viewing angle, even in well lit stores" also: "I can´t really see a problem here with the 200cd/m² limitation for a white screen. Currently Plasmas only reaches 40-60cd/m² and it´s 110cd/m² more than the 2013 OLED generation."

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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
Yes you can. You just have to wait a few months till the current model is "discontinued" and request a swap for the current equivalent model. I've done this before, and if you escalate it past tier 1 tech support, you can get it done as soon as the new model comes out.

That's why I never freak out about "issues" that are within the warranty period, as I've always gotten serviced. You just have to know how to talk with customer service
Fair point...but I'll probably have trouble convincing them since I've already blown through one panel. It won't hurt to try what you've suggested, though, so thanks for the tip.
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post #11 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 04:02 AM
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Not sure I would want to have this TV wall-mounted. The 'bracket', OSW100 is called a hanger.
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post #12 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 06:26 AM
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That screen burn nonsense in the manual has nothing to do with OLED per say. It's in all LGs manuals, including their LCD TVs, plasma TVs, etc.
Although that might be true, it's unwise to remove the 'cautionary sign' for the potential for IR or, perhaps to a lesser degree, burn-in from OLED. We know for a fact that they are very susceptible to IR. The jury is still out on burn-in.

But let's be fair, OLEDs are far more prone to IR than any LCD and 'may' be more prone to burn-in than plasma.
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post #13 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 09:48 AM
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As a gamer Im a bit worried the extra hz and motion technologies of the EC9300 adds some flickering to the picture, like the scanning backlight on my LG LCD LED. Well if game mode disables all those motion technologies I will have no issues.
I agree, hopefully such things can be disabled.

Also it would be nice if the input lag is reduced compared to the previous model.
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post #14 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 12:04 PM
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I agree, hopefully such things can be disabled.

Also it would be nice if the input lag is reduced compared to the previous model.
Talking about input lag, it seems 4K tvs add a lot of lag. Since Im a gamer, Im not missing the LG 4K OLEDS, and will no doubt buy the 1080p LG EC9300 OLED tv.
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Talking about input lag, it seems 4K tvs add a lot of lag. Since Im a gamer, Im not missing the LG 4K OLEDS, and will no doubt buy the 1080p LG EC9300 OLED tv.
Good point. I had not thought of it, but it makes sense - the TV has 4x as many pixels to process.

I'm not much interested in 4k either. I will try to bag either the 55EA8800, or its next-gen successor (if they make one).
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Good point. I had not thought of it, but it makes sense - the TV has 4x as many pixels to process.

I'm not much interested in 4k either. I will try to bag either the 55EA8800, or its next-gen successor (if they make one).
To be fair Sony 4K LCD tvs have only 40ms input lag. http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

Or you can try the curved EC9300. As a gamer Im intrigued how gaming would feel in a curved tv.

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post #17 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 03:27 PM
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That screen burn nonsense in the manual has nothing to do with OLED per say. It's in all LGs manuals, including their LCD TVs, plasma TVs, etc.
That warning is there for all of their TVs because all of them suffer from image retention - regardless of panel technology. It does not mean that you can just ignore it.

Also, I would not read too much into the Amazon refresh rate specs.

Most likely that's just a typo or copy-paste from one of their LCD models.
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post #18 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 04:37 PM
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To be fair Sony 4K LCD tvs have only 40ms input lag. http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

Or you can try the curved EC9300. As a gamer Im intrigued how gaming would feel in a curved tv.
I can see a benefit to a curved screen for gaming. Since the viewing distance from center to periphery varies less than with a flat screen, the eye is not adjusting focus, perhaps improving immersion. However, I think the effect would be pretty subtle. Of course, this varies a lot based on seating position.

I mainly would prefer the flat version since (with that silly art frame gone) it looks really clean and minimalistic. I'm not a big fan of LG's bezel/stand designs on the curved models - first clear plastic, now chrome electroplated plastic... yuck
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I am dying to get some impressions... Could this be the TV that replaces my 500m?! Needs to have a low input lag for sure for me to consider it however.
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post #20 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 08:31 PM
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Wonder how it will perform against the samsung oled at the shootout next month, expecting it should beat the f8500 and the Vizio M model
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post #21 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Wonder how it will perform against the samsung oled at the shootout next month, expecting it should beat the f8500 and the Vizio M model

It's a good list overall but I don't understand what the Samsung OLED is doing there. The F8500 Plasma will be out of production soon but is still an available product and was last year's winner, so I have no problem with the F8500 being on the list, but what is the point of including a product which is out of production and not available (the Samsung KN55S9 OLED)????
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It's a good list overall but I don't understand what the Samsung OLED is doing there. The F8500 Plasma will be out of production soon but is still an available product and was last year's winner, so I have no problem with the F8500 being on the list, but what is the point of including a product which is out of production and not available (the Samsung KN55S9 OLED)????
For me personally, I'm only going to buy the 55EC9300 if it does better than the samsung oled, if not I might wait till the end of the year to see if those Samsung oled rumors are true. And if not, then hopefully by that time the price of the LG will have dropped significantly and I can find a good deal.
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post #23 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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For me personally, I'm only going to buy the 55EC9300 if it does better than the samsung oled, if not I might wait till the end of the year to see if those Samsung oled rumors are true. And if not, then hopefully by that time the price of the LG will have dropped significantly and I can find a good deal.

So you'd buy a new Samsung OLED sight unseen because an out-of-production prohibitively-expensive-to-manufacture older Samsung performed best in a shootout?


Maybe they should bring in the Sharp Elite and an old Kuro while they are at it - Pioneer wouldn't have anything to gain but Sharp might sell a few more of their Quatron+ panels to LED/LCD fanboys with your attitude...


I'm only interested in how TVs I can go out and buy today (or near-term tomorrow) compare against other TVs that I can go out and buy today - including the previous year's winner even though it is soon to be gone forever is something I can accept for the sake of posterity, but including any unavailable TVs beyond that strikes me as a waste of time and effort.


In any case, you can rest assured that the price of the 55EC9300 will have dropped significantly by the end of this year. Even at pricing of half the level it is today ($2500), it is not at all clear that LG will be able to sell the 4000 55" 1080p WOLEDs they will be pumping out daily once the M2 production facility is fully ramped up...
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For me personally, I'm only going to buy the 55EC9300 if it does better than the samsung oled, if not I might wait till the end of the year to see if those Samsung oled rumors are true. And if not, then hopefully by that time the price of the LG will have dropped significantly and I can find a good deal.
What's your current TV?
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post #25 of 518 Old 07-13-2014, 09:58 PM
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For me personally, I'm only going to buy the 55EC9300 if it does better than the samsung oled, if not I might wait till the end of the year to see if those Samsung oled rumors are true. And if not, then hopefully by that time the price of the LG will have dropped significantly and I can find a good deal.
I wouldnt buy the now discontinued Samsung OLED, since they use RGB, and blue is known to have a shorter life. Well Samsung may have solved the blue issue in their next OLED, who knows.
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So you'd buy a new Samsung OLED sight unseen because an out-of-production prohibitively-expensive-to-manufacture older Samsung performed best in a shootout?
No, just wouldn't buy the new lg, alteast not initially, and would wait a bit before deciding.
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What's your current TV?
I have the f8500 in the living room and want to add an oled in the basement
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post #28 of 518 Old 07-14-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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No, just wouldn't buy the new lg, alteast not initially, and would wait a bit before deciding.

Got it. Well the rumors of a new Samsung OLED this year have now been put to rest: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/artic...oled-tv-market


"Yoon Boo-geun, CEO of Samsung Electronics’ Consumer Electronics (CE) unit, came back to Korea on July 12 after a business trip to Africa. He said at the following press interview, “Although we are continuously developing OLED TV, there is no specific plan for additional releases.” He denied a rumor that Samsung Electronics will release a new OLED TV. DisplaySearch, a market research company, previously disclosed a report saying that Samsung Electronics will release their new OLED TV this coming August, which attracted many eyes in the industry. On July 8, Park Dong-gun, CEO of Samsung Display, emphasized that the OLED TV market is premature, targeting LG, which focuses on OLED TVs. - See more at: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/artic....12bnl69B.dpuf"

Especially if you already have an F8500, I'd be curious to know what aspects of PQ you are concerned about regarding the LG WOLEDs - near-black greyscale uniformity?


The Samsung F8500, LG Gen-2 WOLEDs, Sony X950B, and possibly the Panasonic AX900 and/or Vizio Reference Series look to be the top-performing TVs at least through CES next year - what is it you are looking to improve upon versus your F8500 by yearend? What screen size are you looking for and how much do you want to spend?
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Especially if you already have an F8500, I'd be curious to know what aspects of PQ you are concerned about regarding the LG WOLEDs - near-black greyscale uniformity?


The Samsung F8500, LG Gen-2 WOLEDs, Sony X950B, and possibly the Panasonic AX900 and/or Vizio Reference Series look to be the top-performing TVs at least through CES next year - what is it you are looking to improve upon versus your F8500 by yearend? What screen size are you looking for and how much do you want to spend?
Between 55-65, idealy 65 but Im willing to go down to 55 for the best pq, and would also bite on a price between $3-3500. Since its going to a light controlled basement, I will love something that is better than the f8500 in terms of black levels, contrast. I know another larger f8500 might be a good option too, but Ive seen lg's last year model and it was gorgeous, so an oled is on top of the list right now.

I am concerned about the uniformity that you mentioned, so i will keep an eye out for that in this thread and during the shootout. Also motion handling, good chunk of my tv viewing is sports, curious if LG improved that with the new gen.
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post #30 of 518 Old 07-14-2014, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I am concerned about the uniformity that you mentioned, so i will keep an eye out for that in this thread and during the shootout. Also motion handling, good chunk of my tv viewing is sports, curious if LG improved that with the new gen.

For improvements on the near-black greyscale uniformity issues others have reported, we will need to await the first user reviews of gen-2 owners to understand what improvements LG has made.


But for motion handling, it looks like gen 2 will make significant improvements versus gen 1: 240Hz natural refresh rate on gen-2 versus 60Hz on gen 1 and 25% impulse mode on gen 2 (supported by the additional peak brightness of 500 Nits) versus 50% impulse mode on gen 1.


The 55EC9300 specs an effective refresh rate of 1000Hz which may or may not deliver the motion handling of a plasma, but it is pretty likely to deliver motion handling as good or better than the best LCDs (especially because of the near-instantaneous transition times).
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