What to do while waiting for Blue ray 4K - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 156 Old 07-25-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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What to do while waiting for Blue ray 4K

OK, I used to be an early adopter (Sony Qualia when it first came out) but I've sworn off that. I'm still using the Sony XBR 60" they gave me when they stopped supporting the Qualia. I really want to upgrade and my ideal set would be a 70+ OLED with HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, 10-bit color and DCI-P3 color gamut. Looks like that's a year away for early adopters and 2 years for more reasonable pricing. Also, we're a while away from 4K blue ray being available making it premature to chase after a display whose capabilities are ahead of the content. So, what to do in the ensuing two year wait? Has to be 4K with internal upscaling and the ability to watch 4K Netflix original programming in 4K. Has to be 70+". Want to spend as little as possible knowing that I'm going to replace it in a couple of years. LCD seemingly in a sweet spot, today. Local dimming is good, but not at too great a price premium. HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 not necessary for a 2-yr horizon and, obviously, 8-bit color a given. So, I thought I'd ask the collective wisdom of the AVS forum for recommendations before I go out looking on the showroom floors. Opinions? Thanks.
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post #2 of 156 Old 07-25-2014, 10:55 AM
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Sometimes this is the best answer: Wait!
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post #3 of 156 Old 07-25-2014, 10:57 AM
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I hear ya, my next upgrade will be 4K OLED 55" or 65" as well, but I'm good to wait, I have my plasma to keep me happy until than. If you want to dip your feet with all these new 4K LCD's by all means go for it, but you are looking at $2500-$4000. Without any real content out there other than a handful, this might be a better option

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/2/5864583/...wait-two-years

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post #4 of 156 Old 07-25-2014, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
I hear ya, my next upgrade will be 4K OLED 55" or 65" as well, but I'm good to wait, I have my plasma to keep me happy until than. If you want to dip your feet with all these new 4K LCD's by all means go for it, but you are looking at $2500-$4000. Without any real content out there other than a handful, this might be a better option

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/2/5864583/...wait-two-years

Good luck on your choice.
Yes--that's the price range I'm comfortable with for a couple of years. I'll be giving the 60" to my son, and he will also get the stand-in set once content has caught up to TV capability. I really don't want to keep watching the 60" for another two years with it's second rate contrast, compared to what I see on current LCD's. Since I will be giving the stand-in set to family, I don't feel bad about getting one now. A better set is always just around the corner and the one I described as my goal (adding H.265 codec) will be good enough. At this point, I am trying to focus on the best available upconverting 4K set in my desired price range, while I wait for the 4K Content to arrive.
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post #5 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 07:50 AM
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In a recent Scott Wilkinson podcast Joel Silver stated that he was sceptic about 4K blu-ray chances. Lots of folks do not care about blu-ray and much more folks will pass on 4K blu-ray. I am not in a hurry to get me that 1080p upscaling TV..
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post #6 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
In a recent Scott Wilkinson podcast Joel Silver stated that he was sceptic about 4K blu-ray chances. Lots of folks do not care about blu-ray and much more folks will pass on 4K blu-ray. I am not in a hurry to get me that 1080p upscaling TV..
Another good reason not to chase a set that will be compatible with 4K Blue Ray too quickly. We sit close to our TV and we can see a noticable difference, at our viewing distance, between 1080p and upscaled 4K for 70+ " displays. So, that's the target. Who knows, it could be longer than 2 years for 4K source material to make it beyond the early adopter stage. Don't wanna wait. Don't want Plasma because it's not large enough. An H.265 codec would be good because if 4K content becomes more widely available, it will surely be on a more modern codec than H.264.

Still looking for recomendations for an interim set and my price range is probably too low. How about up to $9K?

Last edited by Ted99; 07-26-2014 at 11:03 AM. Reason: more info
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post #7 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 11:20 AM
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My angle on this question is what do to in terms of collecting movies in the meantime. I LOVE collecting blu-ray movies, but it's sort of awkward right now because part of me wants to start unloading some of them to prepare to replace them with 4K versions with no idea of when to expect them, but then at the same time there are still movies coming out on blu-ray right now that I want. What a weird feeling!


In fact, for me right now the TV seems like the easy part if the LG 4K OLED screens coming out are going to sport HDMI 2.0 (and we should know soon), and it seems we can assume that they wouldn't skimp on the codecs at that point, but I guess the point is that we can be full of dangerous assumptions at this point, so I don't know. But considering that of the two next-gen TV technologies, OLED seems to be the most impactful, they are now complete with 4K, and they are coming out now just as HDMI 2.0 should be something safe to assume would be included in the best screens along with these codecs, I think we have plenty reason to have go for our fancy new super TV regardless of arguments about how necessary 4K is right this moment content-wise. Maybe I'm making too many assumptions, and who knows what the producers are going to do in all of the nervous twitching in rolling this stuff out, but worthwhile screens are almost here with 4K included.


Now I still don't know what to do about this HD blu-ray collection still itching to grow...
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post #8 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 11:35 AM
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I laugh when I hear netflix 4k. I'm on fios and verizon is trying to shake down netflix. I'm lucky if I get decent 720p.
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post #9 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 11:38 AM
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Question What do do while waiting for Blu-ray 4K?

Drink coffee, play Lego.
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post #10 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
OK, I used to be an early adopter (Sony Qualia when it first came out) but I've sworn off that. I'm still using the Sony XBR 60" they gave me when they stopped supporting the Qualia. I really want to upgrade and my ideal set would be a 70+ OLED with HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, 10-bit color and DCI-P3 color gamut. Looks like that's a year away for early adopters and 2 years for more reasonable pricing. Also, we're a while away from 4K blue ray being available making it premature to chase after a display whose capabilities are ahead of the content. So, what to do in the ensuing two year wait? Has to be 4K with internal upscaling and the ability to watch 4K Netflix original programming in 4K. Has to be 70+". Want to spend as little as possible knowing that I'm going to replace it in a couple of years. LCD seemingly in a sweet spot, today. Local dimming is good, but not at too great a price premium. HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 not necessary for a 2-yr horizon and, obviously, 8-bit color a given. So, I thought I'd ask the collective wisdom of the AVS forum for recommendations before I go out looking on the showroom floors. Opinions? Thanks.

If you mean that, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than the Vizio P - 70" 4K for $2600. The only set's coming close to that in terms of ~4K performance for the price are the Sharp SQ models (1080p+/4K-) which can be found @ 70" for $2000 but are only pseudo-4K and are also edge-lit rather than FALD.


If you don't care about FALD and are willing to spend more than $2500, the Samsung UN75HU8550 can be found for close to $4500 and gives you 75" of true 4K with one of the better edge-lit implementations around.
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post #11 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
If you mean that, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than the Vizio P - 70" 4K for $2600. The only set's coming close to that in terms of ~4K performance for the price are the Sharp SQ models (1080p+/4K-) which can be found @ 70" for $2000 but are only pseudo-4K and are also edge-lit rather than FALD.


If you don't care about FALD and are willing to spend more than $2500, the Samsung UN75HU8550 can be found for close to $4500 and gives you 75" of true 4K with one of the better edge-lit implementations around.
Perfect--just the kind of info I'm looking for. I'll check them both out. Thank you very much
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post #12 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 05:00 PM
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I saw the Samsung true 4K 65" class model and the 70" Sharp pseudo 4K and I prefer the Samsung true Ultra HD TV.
* They were both the same price ($4,500 Canadian dollars).

Never saw the Vizio one (price is nice though). ...But is it up to it picture quality wise? ...With both true 4K content, and 2K, and 3D.
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post #13 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 06:19 PM
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Im waiting for word that Oppo has a 4K upscaling player that does as good a job taking sd dvds to 4K as the Oppo 83 did taking it up to 1080P.My library of dvds is massive and I have no intention of re-buying them but a 4K Oled set is in my future.

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post #14 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I saw the Samsung true 4K 65" class model and the 70" Sharp pseudo 4K and I prefer the Samsung true Ultra HD TV.
* They were both the same price ($4,500 Canadian dollars).

Never saw the Vizio one (price is nice though). ...But is it up to it picture quality wise? ...With both true 4K content, and 2K, and 3D.

The Vizio P is not out yet (rumored to emerge in a month or so). It is true 4K, has the processing power to do a good job upconverting HD, and Vizio has eliminated 3D from their entire 2014 product lineup (in favor of FALD). The 2014 M Series (1080p) has been getting rave reviews from both places like CNET, Sound and Vision, etc as well as early owners here on AVS. While the M Series has 32 local dimming zones, the 70" P Series should have 96 (the smaller size Ps have 64) so it should deliver even better local dimming performance than the M (which is already considered by many to be the best 1080p TV to come out this year, aside from the LG OLED).
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post #15 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 07:09 PM
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What is 'FALD'? ...Better than 3D? ...If not (without 3D); no go for me.
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post #16 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Im waiting for word that Oppo has a 4K upscaling player that does as good a job taking sd dvds to 4K as the Oppo 83 did taking it up to 1080P.My library of dvds is massive and I have no intention of re-buying them but a 4K Oled set is in my future.
You can only do so much with 480p content. Up scaling to 4k would not be any better than what it is available now. 4K Oled for my future upgrade too.

Quote:
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What is 'FALD'? ...Better than 3D? ...If not (without 3D); no go for me.
FALD - Full Array local dimming display

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post #17 of 156 Old 07-26-2014, 10:02 PM
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Arrow FALD = Full Array Local Dimming

Cool.
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post #18 of 156 Old 07-27-2014, 08:43 AM
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[QUOTE=Latinoheat;26069242]You can only do so much with 480p content. Up scaling to 4k would not be any better than what it is available now. 4K Oled for my future upgrade too.

Perhaps myself and others with large dvd libraries should look toward 2K Oled and forget about 4K?Sure dont want things to look worse after screen upgrade.



]

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post #19 of 156 Old 07-27-2014, 12:18 PM
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[quote=mattg3;26075874]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
You can only do so much with 480p content. Up scaling to 4k would not be any better than what it is available now. 4K Oled for my future upgrade too.

Perhaps myself and others with large dvd libraries should look toward 2K Oled and forget about 4K?Sure dont want things to look worse after screen upgrade.
I doubt that 480p upscaled to 4K is going to look any worse than upscaled to 1080p, it's just not likely to look any better.


If you think about a 4K display as a 1080p display in which each pixel has been sliced into quarters, you have the same image with less noticeable pixel structure. In addition, I believe the inter-pixel gaps have been reduced, so screen-door effect is less noticeable.
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post #20 of 156 Old 07-27-2014, 01:08 PM
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Thanks,and if Oppo is able to create a little magic in a future player it might make 4K a viable choice

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post #21 of 156 Old 07-27-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Im waiting for word that Oppo has a 4K upscaling player that does as good a job taking sd dvds to 4K as the Oppo 83 did taking it up to 1080P.My library of dvds is massive and I have no intention of re-buying them but a 4K Oled set is in my future.
There's only so much you can do with less data. You can't create data that isn't there when the information used to create it is gone. SD upscaled on 4K will look terrible especially on a big panel.
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post #22 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 03:11 AM
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While there may be a 4K BluRay product, it's not going to become mainstream. And I don't expect much in the way of software support. But more importantly, there'll be less in the way of distribution infrastructure (no Netflix or Redbox rentals, few retail sales points).

Sadly, this seems destined to not happen -- at least not in a major way. Maybe as a fringe format like Superbit.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #23 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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While there may be a 4K BluRay product, it's not going to become mainstream. And I don't expect much in the way of software support. But more importantly, there'll be less in the way of distribution infrastructure (no Netflix or Redbox rentals, few retail sales points).

Sadly, this seems destined to not happen -- at least not in a major way. Maybe as a fringe format like Superbit.

What's going to prevent 4K Blu-ray from becoming mainstream?
Why would Netflix and Redbox not supply the media?
Why would stores not carry 4K movies? Amazon is the biggest seller of movies. Do you think amazon would sell them?
What do you mean by 'I don't expect much in the way of software support'? What software?
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post #24 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 10:23 AM
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Look how long any decent Blu-ray penetration has taken. There is your answer.
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post #25 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 10:41 AM
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Look how long any decent Blu-ray penetration has taken. There is your answer.
Decent and mainstream are vague terms. Here are some actual numbers...


http://www.the-numbers.com/home-mark...ray-sales/2014
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post #26 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 11:19 AM
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Decent and mainstream are vague terms. Here are some actual numbers...


http://www.the-numbers.com/home-mark...ray-sales/2014
Blu-ray began selling in the summer of 2006 with the format war ending in late 2007, early 2008.

You want data and numbers, go to google or I can spoon-feed some of it to you.

So much for the high-def discs that studios once hoped would revive home entertainment. Consumers bought about 124M Blu-ray discs in the U.S. last year, + 4.2% vs 2012, research firm IHS Technology reports this morning. DiscsBut with prices falling, consumer outlays only increased 2.6% — not nearly enough to compensate for the 13.6% drop in DVD sales. If the trend continues, then it could result in “a downward turn in spending for the [Blu-ray] format in 2014,” says Senior Analyst Michael Arrington. “In any case, any reasonable amount of growth in Blu-ray is unlikely to prevent what will next year become a decade of decline for a once-thriving disc market.” IHS says that total spending on home entertainment sales and rentals increased 0.7% to $18.29B in 2013, a slower pace than in 2012 when the total was +3.1%. (The market peaked in 2004 at $21.9B, when discs accounted for 96% of home entertainment spending.) The results are especially disappointing, Arrington notes, considering that “2013 was another record year for the theatrical box office.” Disc sales fell 9.3% to $7.47B while disc rental spending declined 8.8% to $4.27B. That was slightly outweighed by increased Internet business. Movie and TV online sales were +38.7% to $1.31B, with rentals +39.6% to $600M, and subscription revenues +31.4% to $3.17B. Pay TV video on demand was up 0.7% to $1.48B.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/


We are now eight years in and that's where we are. I would argue the leap from DVD to blu-ray quality-wise is much more significant than blu-ray to 4k. Will there be 4k players and discs? I would think so at some point. But it will take time and there is always the holy grail of high-quality on demand content from the cloud/internet.

So I think "decent" and "mainstream" are pretty good terms for the progress of blu-ray over eight years. But go ahead and buy that tv and enjoy all that glorious 4k content over the next few years, ha ha.
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post #27 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjammin View Post
Blu-ray began selling in the summer of 2006 with the format war ending in late 2007, early 2008.

You want data and numbers, go to google or I can spoon-feed some of it to you.

So much for the high-def discs that studios once hoped would revive home entertainment. Consumers bought about 124M Blu-ray discs in the U.S. last year, + 4.2% vs 2012, research firm IHS Technology reports this morning. DiscsBut with prices falling, consumer outlays only increased 2.6% — not nearly enough to compensate for the 13.6% drop in DVD sales. If the trend continues, then it could result in “a downward turn in spending for the [Blu-ray] format in 2014,” says Senior Analyst Michael Arrington. “In any case, any reasonable amount of growth in Blu-ray is unlikely to prevent what will next year become a decade of decline for a once-thriving disc market.” IHS says that total spending on home entertainment sales and rentals increased 0.7% to $18.29B in 2013, a slower pace than in 2012 when the total was +3.1%. (The market peaked in 2004 at $21.9B, when discs accounted for 96% of home entertainment spending.) The results are especially disappointing, Arrington notes, considering that “2013 was another record year for the theatrical box office.” Disc sales fell 9.3% to $7.47B while disc rental spending declined 8.8% to $4.27B. That was slightly outweighed by increased Internet business. Movie and TV online sales were +38.7% to $1.31B, with rentals +39.6% to $600M, and subscription revenues +31.4% to $3.17B. Pay TV video on demand was up 0.7% to $1.48B.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/


We are now eight years in and that's where we are. I would argue the leap from DVD to blu-ray quality-wise is much more significant than blu-ray to 4k. Will there be 4k players and discs? I would think so at some point. But it will take time and there is always the holy grail of high-quality on demand content from the cloud/internet.

So I think "decent" and "mainstream" are pretty good terms for the progress of blu-ray over eight years. But go ahead and buy that tv and enjoy all that glorious 4k content over the next few years, ha ha.

I don't doubt disc sales have been slowing, but it still doesn't define what you mean by decent. US automobile sales are lower now then they were in 2005. Does that mean that automobiles haven't had decent penetration?
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post #28 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 12:15 PM
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01 may 2014 sony cuts profit forecasts after blu-ray disappointment, here
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post #29 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 12:21 PM
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They really need to just skip 4K and go straight to 8K !

I'm going to have to wait a long long time but I will just relax and wait until 8K gets here...life is too short to worry about this kind of stuff...
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post #30 of 156 Old 07-28-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjammin View Post
Blu-ray began selling in the summer of 2006 with the format war ending in late 2007, early 2008.

You want data and numbers, go to google or I can spoon-feed some of it to you.

So much for the high-def discs that studios once hoped would revive home entertainment. Consumers bought about 124M Blu-ray discs in the U.S. last year, + 4.2% vs 2012, research firm IHS Technology reports this morning. DiscsBut with prices falling, consumer outlays only increased 2.6% — not nearly enough to compensate for the 13.6% drop in DVD sales. If the trend continues, then it could result in “a downward turn in spending for the [Blu-ray] format in 2014,” says Senior Analyst Michael Arrington. “In any case, any reasonable amount of growth in Blu-ray is unlikely to prevent what will next year become a decade of decline for a once-thriving disc market.” IHS says that total spending on home entertainment sales and rentals increased 0.7% to $18.29B in 2013, a slower pace than in 2012 when the total was +3.1%. (The market peaked in 2004 at $21.9B, when discs accounted for 96% of home entertainment spending.) The results are especially disappointing, Arrington notes, considering that “2013 was another record year for the theatrical box office.” Disc sales fell 9.3% to $7.47B while disc rental spending declined 8.8% to $4.27B. That was slightly outweighed by increased Internet business. Movie and TV online sales were +38.7% to $1.31B, with rentals +39.6% to $600M, and subscription revenues +31.4% to $3.17B. Pay TV video on demand was up 0.7% to $1.48B.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/


We are now eight years in and that's where we are. I would argue the leap from DVD to blu-ray quality-wise is much more significant than blu-ray to 4k. Will there be 4k players and discs? I would think so at some point. But it will take time and there is always the holy grail of high-quality on demand content from the cloud/internet.

So I think "decent" and "mainstream" are pretty good terms for the progress of blu-ray over eight years. But go ahead and buy that tv and enjoy all that glorious 4k content over the next few years, ha ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
01 may 2014 sony cuts profit forecasts after blu-ray disappointment, here
both of these dont bode well for physical players
online streaming isnt 1080p, but it appears the masses dont care as streaming up way up and blu ray is way down
im not saying that there wont be a 4k player, im saying i dont think theres nearly as much of an incentive to create one when you could possibly stream the UHD content
then, you have bandwidth issues

who knows, im all for it, but not sure how its all going to come together
at this point, i view 4k tv sets as 70'+ Hd sets
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