Official Lineup for 2014 Value Electronics TV Shootout Announced - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 12:54 PM
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Would love to see a ZT calibrated with high panel brightness included in this.
This
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post #422 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 12:57 PM
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Audio Karma's "secret" tweak:

http://www.quicksilvergold.com/
what the heck is this pile of a/v pseudo science
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post #423 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:01 PM
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The final list of participants has been published: http://hdguru.com/2014-shootout-for-...nd/#more-14099


"Zohn provided HD Guru with the set-up photos. The competing UHD 4K models are:
Samsung
UN105S9 curved panel 105-inch 21:9 aspect ratio back-lit LED LCD with local dimming . This is the most expensive model in the competition selling for $120,000
UN78HU9000 curved panel 78-inch edge-lit LED LCD with local dimming
UN85HU8550 flat panel 85-inch LED LCD back-lit with local dimming
Sony
XBR85X950B flat panel 85-inch LED LCD back-lit with local dimming
XBR79X900B flat panel 79-inch edge-it LED LCD with local dimming

Competing HDTV models are
Samsung
PN64F8500 flat panel plasma
KN55S9 curved panel OLED
LG
55EC9300 curved panel OLED



There will also be a Vizio M652i-B2 flat panel back-lit with local dimming LED LCD HDTV on-hand. However, it will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group."
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post #424 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:13 PM
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Samsung 21.9 beast is a welcome surprise
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post #425 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Samsung 21.9 beast is a welcome surprise

Yeah instead of having the $1500 65" Vizio M representing FALD LED/LCD in the shootout, we have a 105" $120,000 Samsung FALD LED/LCD to represent the class instead :-)
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post #426 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:17 PM
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There will also be a Vizio M652i-B2 flat panel back-lit with local dimming LED LCD HDTV on-hand. However, it will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group."
So why not let it be put up for a vote?
Are we going to find out just how & where it "did not perform well enough"??
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Samsung 21.9 beast is a welcome surprise
Not to everyone.

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post #427 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
So why not let it be put up for a vote?
Are we going to find out just how & where it "did not perform well enough"??
Not to everyone.

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If I had to guess it would be motion resolution and color accuracy. Of course it is at least half the cost of all the other participants hopefully they do speak to why it's not competing.
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post #428 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:44 PM
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I would love to see the 105' in person, but don't understand it being in this comp
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post #429 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
I would love to see the 105' in person, but don't understand it being in this comp

Not sure there is much to understand. The competition this year is largely made out of sets greater than 70". The 120" seems to fit in with the rest of the high end 4k sets being displayed. It is also an alternative for those who don't wish to use a projector set up. We'll be able to see if the cost premium for the set is "worth" it.
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post #430 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Not sure there is much to understand. The competition this year is largely made out of sets greater than 70". The 120" seems to fit in with the rest of the high end 4k sets being displayed. It is also an alternative for those who don't wish to use a projector set up. We'll be able to see if the cost premium for the set is "worth" it.
It's price point eliminates it from 99% of the market
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post #431 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
If I had to guess it would be motion resolution and color accuracy. Of course it is at least half the cost of all the other participants hopefully they do speak to why it's not competing.

If you eliminate the soon-to-be-discontinued 2013 Samsung F8500, the least expensive TV in the shootout after the (not officially in the shootout) $1500 65" Vizio M Series is the LG 55EC9300 OLED. That 55" TV is currently priced at $3500, meaning the 65" Vizio is 43% of the price of the 55" LG.


After that, the next least-expensive TV is the Suamsung UN78HU9000, which is priced at $8000 on Amazon and $6000 at unauthorized resellers like ECTV - so the 65" M Series costs one-quarter to one-fifth of the least expensive 4K TV in the shootout.


And then there is the 105" Samsung FALD costing $120,000 - the M Series costs one-eightieth (1.25%) the price of the Samsung UN105S9 - probably a record-setting price range for any TV shootout ever in the history of man.


Pity the M Series is not going to be allowed to compete officially (and at least I hope there is feedback on the areas where it performance was so deficient in comparison to the other entrants as to justify exclusion, as others on the Forum have already requested).
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post #432 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
If I had to guess it would be motion resolution and color accuracy. Of course it is at least half the cost of all the other participants hopefully they do speak to why it's not competing.
Sounds as "half the cost" was the issue.
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post #433 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
It's price point eliminates it from 99% of the market

Most of these sets are priced outside the majority of the market. This isn't what's affordable and best, this is the best period (money no object). If they focused just on what people could afford, not sure there would be many of the current sets left. This is showing us where technology had gone to as often the tech used in these sets will trickle down to more affordable ones in the next generation.
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post #434 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Toshiba - not released/ready in time

Panasonic - declined to participate

Vizio - It's not clear what the issue is. Last I heard they were evaluating it's performance/suitability
Panasonic?! I'm flabbergasted, I don't know what to say?! How can this be? I'll just have to drag some calibration disks into my local Magnolia store and do my own shootout...maybe some local AVS folks could help.

Hummmm,
Cheers
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post #435 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
It's price point eliminates it from 99% of the market
This event has turned into an episode of the rich and famous, interesting but for the most part not much I can relate to even as a television enthusiast.

Edit: The main impetus to the larger sizes is for UHD to have an impact on PQ.

Samsung PN60E7000
OPPO BDP-103 Universal Disc Player
MartinLogan Motion Vision Gloss Black 5-Channel Soundbar
MartinLogan Dynamo 700 10-inch Wireless Ready Subwoofer

Last edited by venus933; 08-16-2014 at 03:07 PM.
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post #436 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 02:38 PM
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Maybe Panasonic isn't as good as they promised?

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post #437 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, Panasonic has an exclusive agreement with Best Buy, precluding them from participating in the shootout.
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post #438 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Most of these sets are priced outside the majority of the market. This isn't what's affordable and best, this is the best period (money no object). If they focused just on what people could afford, not sure there would be many of the current sets left. This is showing us where technology had gone to as often the tech used in these sets will trickle down to more affordable ones in the next generation.
+1

Just because there are uber expensive sets this time does not mean people cannot figure out for themselves the best set for themselves at a given price point. If we didn't have the extreme high end then people would be asking how set "x" compares to these monsters. Now we will pretty much know.
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post #439 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post
If I'm not mistaken, Panasonic has an exclusive agreement with Best Buy, precluding them from participating in the shootout.
We've been over this before. Robert allowed TVs he didn't sell to participate. He would have had to buy one from BB and use it, but was willing to do that. However, Panasonic did not want their TV in the shootout.
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post #440 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
It's price point eliminates it from 99% of the market
Just to clarify, it's price eliminates it from 99.99% of the market. The $8,000 and $10,000 models are already eliminated from 99% of the market. Quite a bit more in fact.

While I don't have this year's sales numbers, the U.S. is roughly a 40-45 million TVs per year market. 1% of that is, therefore, around 400,000 units.

The entire market for 70" and up wasn't even that many as recently as 2012. It might have gotten there in 2013 thanks to lower pricing by Sharp and Vizio.

If you start to consider the market for TVs of 78" and up and also $8,000 and up (or whatever the cheapest of those models at the shootout is), in the U.S. you are probably looking at 0.1% or 40,000 units, nationally, over the course of the year.

Now, move up to the 120" class and you are looking at a market literally in the hundreds of units when priced where Samsung is at. (If anything, I'm exaggerating the market size. It's probably below 100.) If we use 400, we are talking 400 out of 40 million. That's .001% if I did my math right.

(It's worth casually mentioning that if Vizio released its own gigantic 120" set and priced it at the "insane" level of, say, $40,000, that would likely result in a market for a few thousand units. So you'd be in the 0.01% magnitude.

The shootout has never represented such a tiny fringe before.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #441 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 06:57 PM
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Makes you wonder why.

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post #442 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Just to clarify, it's price eliminates it from 99.99% of the market. The $8,000 and $10,000 models are already eliminated from 99% of the market. Quite a bit more in fact.

While I don't have this year's sales numbers, the U.S. is roughly a 40-45 million TVs per year market. 1% of that is, therefore, around 400,000 units.

The entire market for 70" and up wasn't even that many as recently as 2012. It might have gotten there in 2013 thanks to lower pricing by Sharp and Vizio.

If you start to consider the market for TVs of 78" and up and also $8,000 and up (or whatever the cheapest of those models at the shootout is), in the U.S. you are probably looking at 0.1% or 40,000 units, nationally, over the course of the year.

Now, move up to the 120" class and you are looking at a market literally in the hundreds of units when priced where Samsung is at. (If anything, I'm exaggerating the market size. It's probably below 100.) If we use 400, we are talking 400 out of 40 million. That's .001% if I did my math right.

(It's worth casually mentioning that if Vizio released its own gigantic 120" set and priced it at the "insane" level of, say, $40,000, that would likely result in a market for a few thousand units. So you'd be in the 0.01% magnitude.

The shootout has never represented such a tiny fringe before.

And has also never been as so transparently dominated by a company so desperate to hang on to a perception of innovation and market leadership in the face of such disruptive and mantle-stealing competition...
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post #443 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 08:38 PM
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Inclusion of the 120" set feels like free marketing more than anything else. I'm sure it's fun for the calibrators to play with it and fun for the participants, but its not any kind of competition.

In the unlikely event that it wins, what can you say but well, this is what can be done with 100k+. And, in the probable case that an oled or even a fald set wins, it hardly matters to the ten people intent on getting a huge TV or the rest of us.
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post #444 of 538 Old 08-16-2014, 11:12 PM
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I wonder how the 70" Elite from a couple of years ago would fare against this years LCD contestants?
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post #445 of 538 Old 08-17-2014, 05:43 AM
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Yes it was directed towards a very small group. Very small.
What got me the most (other than the length of it) was the closing comments pitching what great buys these are, better get one soon before they are all gone and the prices go up. (no, he didn't mention price increases, but that was the impression I got)
Whomever made that 'pitch', does he believe anyone would buy that? (no pun intended)

Ok, when do we see the write up and final votes/counts??
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Yes it was directed towards a very small group. Very small.
What got me the most (other than the length of it) was the closing comments pitching what great buys these are, better get one soon before they are all gone and the prices go up. (no, he didn't mention price increases, but that was the impression I got)
Whomever made that 'pitch', does he believe anyone would buy that? (no pun intended)

Ok, when do we see the write up and final votes/counts??

Usually takes about a week or so for everything to be tallied, if I remember correctly. The reports should be posted today (calibration). As far as the "pitch" it was for the special of a "free" calibration by one of the calibrators was there. If you know how much that usually goes for then it's not a bad deal, especially to have one of the high demand calibrators do it for your set.


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post #447 of 538 Old 08-17-2014, 07:50 AM
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A shootout in the 78"+ big $ items is all well and good, but I'd really like to see a shootout in the 65-75 range that the vast majority of AVS Forum users are intersted in. For me, a $300K-$500K 120" (would require a massive remodel or new home) is out of any realistic budget.
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post #448 of 538 Old 08-17-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BizarroTerl View Post
A shootout in the 78"+ big $ items is all well and good, but I'd really like to see a shootout in the 65-75 range that the vast majority of AVS Forum users are intersted in. For me, a $300K-$500K 120" (would require a massive remodel or new home) is out of any realistic budget.
Agreed. For big sets that most could possibly own. I have a 65" HU9000. I had to go online to afford it.
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post #449 of 538 Old 08-17-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BizarroTerl View Post
A shootout in the 78"+ big $ items is all well and good, but I'd really like to see a shootout in the 65-75 range that the vast majority of AVS Forum users are intersted in. For me, a $300K-$500K 120" (would require a massive remodel or new home) is out of any realistic budget.

300-500k? Which set is that much? None that were on display. A "shootout" has been discussed with imagic previously where owners can bring their sets in. Unless previously done, calibration would be difficult to do with that amount of TVs so it would be more of a meet than shootout.


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post #450 of 538 Old 08-17-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
I wonder how the 70" Elite from a couple of years ago would fare against this years LCD contestants?

Ken Ross has a Sharp Elite and is there today, so hopefully he can provide some insight as to the answer to your interesting question
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