Official Lineup for 2014 Value Electronics TV Shootout Announced - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I thought that the Samsung PN64F8500 was.

The PN64F8500 was last years popular vote winner and will be included again in this year's shootout for that reason.
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post #92 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 10:48 PM
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I know that, I can read too.
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post #93 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 10:49 PM
 
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The PN64F8500 was last years popular vote winner and will be included again in this year's shootout for that reason.
I think Saprano was using the term more broadly when it comes to the industry, not a single vote popularity contest.
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post #94 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Just to make you feel good; say it.
Haha. Nope.

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post #95 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I know that, I can read too.

Oh, you meant you thought the F8500 was dead, not in the shootout - my bad. As far as I know, the F8500 is 'deadman walking' (like the Panasonic VT/ZT was a year ago...).
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post #96 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:00 PM
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If we break down the shootout scoring system (max 10 points per category), I think we can easily predict the winners:

Black-Level: 10 points to OLED's
Contrast-Ratio: 10 points to OLED's
Color Accuracy: Let's be conservative and assume OLED's score at least 7 but I predict the Sammy will get 10.
Moving Resolution: Sammy OLED should score 10 with BFI enabled. LG might also if they improved their processing this year.
Day Mode: Since the TV's are calibrated to similar max brightness, the LED's will not show much advantage to OLED. I think they will all score 10.
General Content Video Quality: Contrast will probably win over most people compared to 4K resolution but this will depend on availability of 4K demo material and viewing distance. My guess is OLED will take at least 8 points.

So if you look at those numbers, I frankly can't see a way that the OLEDs won't sweep this shootout. They would need to have more categories that favor LED's in order for them to have a chance. Maybe add categories like input-lag, image retention, power consumption, etc.

To those complaining about these TVs being too expensive or too large: This has always been an event for flagship models only. They are only interested in the best - cost is not even part of their scoring system.
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post #97 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:02 PM
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Appreciate the effort, but that list is disappointing. What happened to the 77" OLED? I knew it would not be from inventory, but they could not secure the demo model? It seems like a lot of older, discontinued or previously reviewed sets. I think it would be better to push back to September at this point. So many new big model changes coming in September. Vizio P, Toshiba L9400, JVD Diamond, LG 65" OLED, etc.
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post #98 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Oh, you meant you thought the F8500 was dead, not in the shootout - my bad. As far as I know, the F8500 is 'deadman walking' (like the Panasonic VT/ZT was a year ago...).
Oh she's dead fo sur, but still remains the 2013 Shootout champ.
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post #99 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:10 PM
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Does anyone know if 4k plasma was not possible? I would have loved to seen a 4K plasma.
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post #100 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:15 PM
 
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Possible but technically and financially insurmountable:

What Killed Panasonic Plasma TV? 4K Ultra HD (Or Lack Thereof)
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post #101 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:18 PM
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Does anyone know if 4k plasma was not possible? I would have loved to seen a 4K plasma.
I've read somewhere, a long time ago, that it wouldn't be possible somehow. ...Some' to do with splitting those plasma pixels in four, and in a 65" size class we all know that it is a very challenging feat, task to accomplish.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-01-2014 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Typo ('somewhere')
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post #102 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wandering_star View Post
Possible but technically and financially insurmountable:

What Killed Panasonic Plasma TV? 4K Ultra HD (Or Lack Thereof)
Here you go.
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post #103 of 538 Old 07-31-2014, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
Does anyone know if 4k plasma was not possible? I would have loved to seen a 4K plasma.
Here you go!

http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/3d/3d-plasma-th-152ux1.asp
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post #104 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 12:47 AM
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Pfft... You should see the pics I took of my Olevia back in 2006!
The difference is OLED actually looks like this live, even better.
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post #105 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 12:50 AM
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Let's face it every set in this contest but maybe the 14 LG 4k is an incredible display that 10 years ago we only could of dreamed of.
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post #106 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I own a VT60 so I'm with you on the it being one of the best. But let's say they include the ZT and it wins like it did in that hdtvtest shootout-- doesn't that just throw more salt in the wound at this point? Lol!
LOL IT WOULD NOT WIN!!!! Last year it lost to a panel of consumers in popular vote to the F8500 and this year the competition is much steeper and normally it seems like the panel with the best contrast and reference colors wins and if that is the case this should be an easy victory for OLED. LONG LIVE OLED, PLASMA IS DEAD, AND AWAY WITH EDGE LIT LCD PLEASE!!!!!!
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post #107 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
2 more Plasmas should be there; ZT/VT and a Pioneer kuro. With that said i'm not looking forward to this shoot out at all.
I agree, they may not have any.
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post #108 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:00 AM
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Does anyone know if 4k plasma was not possible? I would have loved to seen a 4K plasma.
Yes but it makes addressing more complicated, each pixel is selectively addressed up to around 30 times per refresh (10 for each colored sub) to create a binary palette of colors, the more time spent addressing the less time there is to sustain which is the process responsible for generating light. Years ago plasmas were addressed top AND bottom meaning there were two rows of drivers and two 24-bit subfield processors controlling the top and bottom portion of the screen as separate devices, dual drivers allow for smoother color transitions, more light output and less motion artifacts but the Korean makers saw that as something to cash in on and years later all plasmas are this way, single side and lacking true color.

Panasonic had a 58" 4K working prototype but they were probably a ways off commercialising that tech, I would instead have liked to have seen smaller HD/FHD PDPs running dual drivers which would finally give CRTs a run for their money but I realise that is an extreme minority viewpoint.
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post #109 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:05 AM
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Been 5 years since I bought my 500M


I have seen what's out there lately but STILL waiting for an ALL ROUND good enough reason to change!!!!
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post #110 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:20 AM
 
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LOL IT WOULD NOT WIN!!!! Last year it lost to a panel of consumers in popular vote to the F8500 and this year the competition is much steeper and normally it seems like the panel with the best contrast and reference colors wins and if that is the case this should be an easy victory for OLED. LONG LIVE OLED, PLASMA IS DEAD, AND AWAY WITH EDGE LIT LCD PLEASE!!!!!!
Less frothing at the mouth (and grave-dancing) and more objectivity please. It's actually very competitive with some of the 4K entries (a hat tip to Sage for the link)- a lot depends on the audience as it did quite clearly in 2013 (and of course the inescapable lack of total objectivity in the case of these shootouts), none of which takes away from the awards it won and the industry-wide accolades it received. OLED longevity is the big question mark right now...every new tech has its growing pains, this one being no exception.

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post #111 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wandering_star View Post
Less frothing at the mouth (and grave-dancing) and more objectivity please. It's actually very competitive with some of the 4K entries (a hat tip to Sage for the link)- a lot depends on the audience as it did quite clearly in 2013 (and of course the inescapable lack of total objectivity in the case of these shootouts), none of which takes away from the awards it won and the industry-wide accolades it received. OLED longevity is the big question mark right now...every new tech has its growing pains, this one being no exception.
For your information I was only frothing a little bit. OLED does and will have some growing pains over the next few years maybe a little bit more as have all displays I will not disagree with you, however for its first year out the gate its doing pretty good considering the other techs have been out for a decade longer and the 4k entries may compete some cases but few at that the fully backlit sony in MY OPINION will be the only one that could even be considered and even that set is going to suffer from blooming and terrible off axis performance. By the way I grave-dance every chance I get because its fun
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post #112 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:40 AM
 
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Yea, but it's mean! I agree with most of that.
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post #113 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 02:49 AM
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Yea, but it's mean! I agree with most of that.
none the less the ZT and VT series will be greatly missed I wish they could have been around at least for a few more years because I do love OLED but Plasma is what made me become a videophile
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post #114 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 05:21 AM
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none the less the ZT and VT series will be greatly missed I wish they could have been around at least for a few more years because I do love OLED but Plasma is what made me become a videophile
I have yet to see a OLED in person, but i'm hearing it doesn't have the organic look of a plasma. It has more of that LCD look. Anybody else find this to be true? I don't like the too sharp and artitfical picture that LCD's have. If OLED is even remotely close to an LCD image I don't think I would want to buy one.

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post #115 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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The PN64F8500 was last years popular vote winner and will be included again in this year's shootout for that reason.
And because you can still buy one.

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post #116 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL IT WOULD NOT WIN!!!! Last year it lost to a panel of consumers in popular vote to the F8500 and this year the competition is much steeper and normally it seems like the panel with the best contrast and reference colors wins and if that is the case this should be an easy victory for OLED. LONG LIVE OLED, PLASMA IS DEAD, AND AWAY WITH EDGE LIT LCD PLEASE!!!!!!
The OLEDs still have to conquer viewing angles, motion resolution, and demonstrate proper cadence before they get the winning votes shoot-out. Yes the chances are good but it's not a guarantee. Black levels alone do not determine the winner, otherwise last year the ZT60 would have been the unanimous choice of both the audience and the pros.

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Last edited by imagic; 08-01-2014 at 05:40 AM.
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post #117 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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As much as I like the F8500, which I own, it will not win, nor should it. It fails every 24p and 30p motion test. You don't win when you fail. Of course, every plasma fails that test. If you can't be the best at blacks, you cant be the best at contrast, which means you cant be the best overall.
How did the F8500 win last year if "you don't win when you fail?"

The primary hurdle for OLED at the shootout is this: "Given the incredibly fast response times of OLED, we had expected motion to have a more plasma-like appearance but in actual fact it was very LCD-like, delivering about 300 lines of resolution" - AVForums.com

Since OLED performs spectacularly in just about every other category, it'll be interesting to see how much of an issue the motion resolution is.

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post #118 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 05:52 AM
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As much as I like the F8500, which I own, it will not win, nor should it. It fails every 24p and 30p motion test.
I still want to see these motion tests it doesn't pass. The Cinema Smooth feature works (save the occasional hiccup) when you feed the TV 1080p24 (24/1.0010).
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post #119 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 06:07 AM
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The OLEDs still have to conquer viewing angles, motion resolution, and demonstrate proper cadence before they get the winning votes shoot-out. Yes the chances are good but it's not a guarantee. Black levels alone do not determine the winner, otherwise last year the ZT60 would have been the unanimous choice of both the audience and the pros.
The pros picked the ZT60. It was the audience that chose the 8500 because of brightness. Which I find absolutely hilarious.

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And because you can still buy one.
That didn't stop the kuros from being there as a reference all those years. The ZT and the kuro doesn't have to be added to the votes.

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post #120 of 538 Old 08-01-2014, 06:18 AM
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The pros picked the ZT60. It was the audience that chose the 8500 because of brightness. Which I find absolutely hilarious.

I would guess nobody was laughing at Panasonic, they already made a panel with super brightness and 21,000:1 ANSI in 2008
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