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post #121 of 141 Old 08-14-2014, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
The LG was located in Magnolia near me, and even the BB guy was commenting on the gray LB bars. He said they tried everything tho get them darker, but no luck.

There's a huge difference between the lighting on the BB sales floor and the much dimmer lighting in Magnolia. I saw the 79" Sony at a Sony store today for the first time, and even their lighting was quite a bit dimmer than BB. That's why the Sony looked much more disappointing today than ever before when I was at BB.

It's all in the lighting and it's why I've said it's very tough to assess PQ on the BB sales floor.
I've been in a Best Buy where the "best looking" TV on the wall was an RCA. I've also seen the Panasonic ST60 look like crap in a Best Buy. The lighting is totally working against you. No rhyme or reason to what looks best in Best Buy... whatsoever. Since the chain sells calibration services, you'd think they'd calibrate their TVs... you know, to stand out from Wal-mart.
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post #122 of 141 Old 08-14-2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I've been in a Best Buy where the "best looking" TV on the wall was an RCA. I've also seen the Panasonic ST60 look like crap in a Best Buy. The lighting is totally working against you. No rhyme or reason to what looks best in Best Buy... whatsoever. Since the chain sells calibration services, you'd think they'd calibrate their TVs... you know, to stand out from Wal-mart.
And I don't have to tell you how an ISF'd display would look on a BB sales floor to the general public. Those sets would have a better shot in Magnolia, but even there, all the displays would have to be ISF'd, because otherwise only the non-ISF'd sets would sell.
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post #123 of 141 Old 08-14-2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
But black levels are horrendous. BTW, I thought the Sony colors were still better. In fact I put one of my 4K videos on both and the Sony was, to me, the clear winner.
Depends on material I guess. I have seen the 79B look great at one store and bad at another. The LG 79 seems to have a lot better blacks than the LG 65 which is opposite of the Sony. Would have been nice to have the Sony and LG running the same demo, this store did not even Carry the Sony.
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post #124 of 141 Old 08-14-2014, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I've been in a Best Buy where the "best looking" TV on the wall was an RCA. I've also seen the Panasonic ST60 look like crap in a Best Buy. The lighting is totally working against you. No rhyme or reason to what looks best in Best Buy... whatsoever. Since the chain sells calibration services, you'd think they'd calibrate their TVs... you know, to stand out from Wal-mart.
Amen, but hard to find great stores like Value Electronics where you can watch them side by side.
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post #125 of 141 Old 08-15-2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
And I don't have to tell you how an ISF'd display would look on a BB sales floor to the general public.
The last time I was in a BB (not recently), BB very thoughtfully had an ISF'd set on display side-by-side with an unadjusted set. The unadjusted one looked better.

I pay no attention at all to what I see or hear in a BB or any retail store. I shop solely on the basis of reviews, professional and others'.

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post #126 of 141 Old 08-15-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
The last time I was in a BB (not recently), BB very thoughtfully had an ISF'd set on display side-by-side with an unadjusted set. The unadjusted one looked better.

I pay no attention at all to what I see or hear in a BB or any retail store. I shop solely on the basis of reviews, professional and others'.
^^ +1...the ONLY reason I go to BB is to look at the aesthetics of and feel for products that I have already researched...

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post #127 of 141 Old 08-17-2014, 07:39 PM
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Sitting here watching the Cheifs and Panthers and the picture is beautiful. Earlier watched episode 5 of The Strain, a very dark show. Stunning detail and color rendition. I am watching in a very dark room so the black levels are only OK. I've had this Sony 70x850b for two weeks and being retired I watch a lot of TV from sports to broadcast TV to blu-rays to standard dvd's. This TV is certainly not perfect but it is highly satisfying from 18 feet.
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post #128 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Sitting here watching the Cheifs and Panthers and the picture is beautiful. Earlier watched episode 5 of The Strain, a very dark show. Stunning detail and color rendition. I am watching in a very dark room so the black levels are only OK. I've had this Sony 70x850b for two weeks and being retired I watch a lot of TV from sports to broadcast TV to blu-rays to standard dvd's. This TV is certainly not perfect but it is highly satisfying from 18 feet.
I've been very impressed with what I've seen of this set. Blacks are about as deep as you can expect from an LCD (without any local dimming side-effects) and the rest of the picture quality is pretty good for the price. I'm especially a fan of how Sony has implemented their motion enhancements here and this set's super low input latency is a big plus for gaming. Count me a fan of the matte display too. In a post-plasma world this is about as good as it gets if you either can't afford or don't trust the reliability of an LG OLED. If I was in the market for a 60-70" LCD this would be my first choice. Lucky for me I'm not.

Edit: I just realized we were talking about the x850b and not the w850b. My opinion was of the w (1080p) model and not the x (4k) model as I haven't spent time with the x.

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post #129 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I've been very impressed with what I've seen of this set. Blacks are about as deep as you can expect from an LCD (without any local dimming side-effects) and the rest of the picture quality is pretty good for the price. I'm especially a fan of how Sony has implemented their motion enhancements here and this set's super low input latency is a big plus for gaming. Count me a fan of the matte display too. In a post-plasma world this is about as good as it gets if you either can't afford or don't trust the reliability of an LG OLED. If I was in the market for a 60-70" LCD this would be my first choice. Lucky for me I'm not.
My only real complaint is the clouding in dark scenes like a shot of the stars. I know it's it's an edge lit LCD thing but I'll complain about it anyway. I will disagree with you a bit about it having a pretty good picture for the price. It's way to expensive for the maybe 10% increase in PQ. Now the 65" is a decent value but I'm not too sure about the ISP panel. I'm checking with a friend at Sony about the make and type of panel used in the 70x850b. I think it's a Samsung S-PVA panel but not sure yet.
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post #130 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Sitting here watching the Cheifs and Panthers and the picture is beautiful. Earlier watched episode 5 of The Strain, a very dark show. Stunning detail and color rendition. I am watching in a very dark room so the black levels are only OK. I've had this Sony 70x850b for two weeks and being retired I watch a lot of TV from sports to broadcast TV to blu-rays to standard dvd's. This TV is certainly not perfect but it is highly satisfying from 18 feet.
I spent about 15-20 minutes at a Magnolia HiFi watching this display go through its demo material several iterations while waiting to see my salesman and I kept asking myself, "why haven't I been looking at this display, it seems to be doing everything pretty well?" It was in a terrible location, facing the Best Buy display floor and all the overhead lighting that goes along with it but it didn't really look all that bad. When I go back I'm going to ask to have it moved into one of their light controlled mini-showrooms(speakers/AVRs/front projector) to really take a serious look at it. Has there been any reviews/testing on this display?
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post #131 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
My only real complaint is the clouding in dark scenes like a shot of the stars. I know it's it's an edge lit LCD thing but I'll complain about it anyway. I will disagree with you a bit about it having a pretty good picture for the price. It's way to expensive for the maybe 10% increase in PQ. Now the 65" is a decent value but I'm not too sure about the ISP panel. I'm checking with a friend at Sony about the make and type of panel used in the 70x850b. I think it's a Samsung S-PVA panel but not sure yet.
Agree about the price, I think it should be about $1000 less.
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post #132 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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Agree about the price, I think it should be about $1000 less.
I agree. $3999 would be more palatable and a more natural progression from the 55 and 65" models. Even then $1,000 jump for 5 inches is steep. Of course it's always a matter of supply. I would imagine Sony manufactures one 70" to ten 65" versions and ten 55 inch versions. Keep in mind that the 70 " uses a different panel then the smaller models.
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post #133 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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So, at the 2014 Value Electronics shootout, all of the 1080p TVs beat all of the UHDTVs. The problems typically associated with LCD technology were on full display. The notion that UHD/4K LCDs somehow changed/leveled the playing field was wishful thinking, plain and simple. OLED is UHD's only hope.

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post #134 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
So, at the 2014 Value Electronics shootout, all of the 1080p TVs beat all of the UHDTVs. The problems typically associated with LCD technology were on full display. The notion that UHD/4K LCDs somehow changed/leveled the playing field was wishful thinking, plain and simple. OLED is UHD's only hope.
Curious as to why only OLED would save UHD? Why not Quantum Dots as well?
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post #135 of 141 Old 08-18-2014, 10:41 PM
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Curious as to why only OLED would save UHD? Why not Quantum Dots as well?
OLED is something you can buy now, given enough money. While the technology is far from mature, manufacturing techniques are rapidly improving.

In my opinion, as processes improve, manufacturing costs for OLED Panels will become less expensive than similar sized LCD panels in the next 2 to 3 years.

Quantum dots may be what displays are based on eventually. Currently, the best OLED displays have the characteristics that made Plasma displays so loved.

Advanced Technology is wonderful and becomes affordable when manufacturing processes mature. It was not that long ago that the largest LCD screen was 52" and the cost was somewhat North of $3,000. Currently you can buy a 55" LED backlit LCD for as little as $600 and it will have a better picture than that 52" set.

OLED is almost now (current prices and Screen Sizes are its only current stumbling block.) Quantum dots is in the future.

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post #136 of 141 Old 08-19-2014, 08:39 AM
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OLED is something you can buy now, given enough money. While the technology is far from mature, manufacturing techniques are rapidly improving.

In my opinion, as processes improve, manufacturing costs for OLED Panels will become less expensive than similar sized LCD panels in the next 2 to 3 years.

Quantum dots may be what displays are based on eventually. Currently, the best OLED displays have the characteristics that made Plasma displays so loved.

Advanced Technology is wonderful and becomes affordable when manufacturing processes mature. It was not that long ago that the largest LCD screen was 52" and the cost was somewhat North of $3,000. Currently you can buy a 55" LED backlit LCD for as little as $600 and it will have a better picture than that 52" set.

OLED is almost now (current prices and Screen Sizes are its only current stumbling block.) Quantum dots is in the future.
Agree completely. UHD's high end will be well served by OLED, I think most people will be fine with LCD UHD, despite its drawbacks to discerning viewers.

Manufacturing is still in the nascent stages for Quantum Dots, with nanofilm probably the best avenue - for that you still need one good manufacturing process to win out. It's going to be a stretch for it to become real.
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post #137 of 141 Old 08-19-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
Agree completely. UHD's high end will be well served by OLED, I think most people will be fine with LCD UHD, despite its drawbacks to discerning viewers.

Manufacturing is still in the nascent stages for Quantum Dots, with nanofilm probably the best avenue - for that you still need one good manufacturing process to win out. It's going to be a stretch for it to become real.
Agree...I'm going to be happy with an LCD UHD for the time being (prob the Vizio P or R), and assume that OLED will not become relevant (at least for me) for another 3-4 years. BTW, is there somewhere here on the forum that explains the whole "quantum dot" technology? Is Sony's Triluminous feature related to it?

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post #138 of 141 Old 08-19-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post
Agree...I'm going to be happy with an LCD UHD for the time being (prob the Vizio P or R), and assume that OLED will not become relevant (at least for me) for another 3-4 years. BTW, is there somewhere here on the forum that explains the whole "quantum dot" technology? Is Sony's Triluminous feature related to it?
Items I've read/watched concerning Quantum-Dot:

http://informationdisplay.org/IDArch...tDisplays.aspx


Scott Wilkinson's
SMPTE/QD Vision Webinar Explains Quantum-Dot Illumination

https://twit.cachefly.net/video/htg/...64x480_500.mp4
Running time: 1:02:53

nanosys
http://www.nanosysinc.com/dot-color/...-the-top-story
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post #139 of 141 Old 08-23-2014, 08:13 AM
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Thanks for the report Mark.

Simple question from my side. What video card did you get for full 4K resolution? I am checking amazon all the time and still didn't find one that seemed to be right. Have this 300gb 4K video sitting on my HD but can't play it more than 5 secs, before the player crashes.

thx for the info

FL
I was surprised, but my new Dell Inspiron with Intel i5 cpu and HD 4460 graphics is able to send 3840x2160 at 23, 24, 29, and 30 Hz.

I had looked up specs and I didn't see any 4460 support for 4k. I have a new Sony XBR65X8150 and am able to play 4k YouTubes from my PC over HDMI.
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post #140 of 141 Old 08-23-2014, 08:21 AM
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I was surprised, but my new Dell Inspiron with Intel i5 cpu and HD 4460 graphics is able to send 3840x2160 at 23, 24, 29, and 30 Hz.

I had looked up specs and I didn't see any 4460 support for 4k. I have a new Sony XBR65X8150 and am able to play 4k YouTubes from my PC over HDMI.
GeForce 700 series video cards can send 4K @ 60Hz 4:2:0 chroma with the newest drivers. Also, 750 ti apparently has HEVC hardware decoding, and it's low power, so it's fantastic for HTPC use.

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post #141 of 141 Old 08-23-2014, 09:17 AM
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GeForce 700 series video cards can send 4K @ 60Hz 4:2:0 chroma with the newest drivers. Also, 750 ti apparently has HEVC hardware decoding, and it's low power, so it's fantastic for HTPC use.

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@Hisma - Thanks! That's what I'm doing, setting up a htpc. With a wireless keyboard and trackpad, and 65" UHD, this'll also be my master PC. Who needs a laptop? I never use my old one, just my iPad for portability. I can even use the SplashTop App on my iPad to control my pc remotely... and even use the Win 8.1 touch interface.
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