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post #1 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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LG 55EC9300 Brings Price for OLED Closer to Earth



The company's third OLED TV to reach the market in 13 months breaks the $100-per-diagonal-inch price barrier.

Most members of AVS Forum know that OLED is the flat-panel technology to beat when it comes to deep blacks and vivid colors; in fact, many videophiles see it as the successor to plasma. However, the price of admission into the OLED club has been extremely steep—many times the cost of even flagship LED-LCD TVs of similar size. And reports that Sony and Samsung plan to back off from aggressive OLED development have not helped bolster confidence that the technology will ever make it into the mainstream.

Meanwhile, LG is forging ahead with OLED, announcing this week that its latest model, the 55" 55EC9300, will sell for only $3500, starting on August 24 at Best Buy, with pre-orders being accepted now on BestBuy.com. That still isn't cheap by any means, but it's 75% less than the $15,000 price tag carried by the company's first 55" OLED TV, the 55EA9800, just over a year ago. At that rate, next year's models could go for under $1000! (Of course, prices probably won't fall at a linear rate, but it's fun to fantasize.)

The 55EC9300 is "only" 1080p, and its screen is curved, though the curve is more gentle than Samsung's comparable offering, and it can be wall-mounted, unlike its progenitor. At its thinnest, the screen is a mere 4.5 millimeters thick, and it has virtually no bezel, which certainly looks cool.

Like all LG OLED TVs, this one uses WRGB (white, red, green, blue) subpixels, and the viewing angle is far wider than any LCD TV. The 55EC9300 is the first LG OLED TV to feature the company's webOS smart-TV platform, which is said to provide nearly instantaneous switching between broadcast TV, streaming services, and external devices, and it offers sophisticated recommendation capabilities. Also included is LG's Magic Remote, which behaves much like an "air mouse" with voice commands.

I realize that few AVS members like a curved screen, but I think this news is important because of the dramatic drop in OLED pricing. While I was joking earlier about next year's models going for less than $1000, I am heartened to know that prices are falling fast. Now, if only LG would make more flat OLEDs with down-to-earth pricing for those of us who don't want a curved screen, I'd be all over that, wouldn't you?

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post #2 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


The company's third OLED TV to reach the market in 13 months, this one breaks the $100-per-diagonal-inch barrier.

Most members of AVS Forum know that OLED is the flat-panel technology to beat when it comes to deep blacks and vivid colors; in fact, many videophiles see it as the successor to plasma. However, the price of admission into the OLED club has been extremely steep—many times the cost of even flagship LED-LCD TVs of similar size. And reports that Sony and Samsung plan to back off from aggressive OLED development have not helped bolster confidence that the technology will ever make it into the mainstream.

Meanwhile, LG is forging ahead with OLED, announcing this week that its latest model, the 55" 55EC9300, will sell for only $3500, starting on August 24 at Best Buy, with pre-orders being accepted now on BestBuy.com. That still isn't cheap by any means, but it's 75% less than the $15,000 price tag carried by the company's first 55" OLED TV, the 55EA9800, just over a year ago. At that rate, next year's models could go for under $1000! (Of course, prices probably won't fall at a linear rate, but it's fun to fantasize.)

The 55EC9300 is "only" 1080p, and its screen is curved, though the curve is more gentle than Samsung's comparable offering, and it can be wall-mounted, unlike its progenitor. At its thinnest, the screen is a mere 4.5 millimeters thick, and it has virtually no bezel, which certainly looks cool.

Like all LG OLED TVs, this one uses WRGB (white, red, green, blue) subpixels, and the viewing angle is far wider than any LCD TV. The 55EC9300 is the first LG OLED TV to feature the company's webOS smart-TV platform, which is said to provide nearly instantaneous switching between broadcast TV, streaming services, and external devices, and it offers sophisticated recommendation capabilities. Also included is LG's Magic Remote, which behaves much like an "air mouse" with voice commands.

I realize that few AVS members like a curved screen, but I think this news is important because of the dramatic drop in OLED pricing. While I was joking earlier about next year's models going for less than $1000, I am heartened to know that prices are falling fast. Now, if only LG would make more flat OLEDs with down-to-earth pricing for those of us who don't want a curved screen, I'd be all over that, wouldn't you?

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Yes.
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post #3 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 08:35 PM
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I hate the curve and I usually try to stay over 60". Yet, despite that, if I were buying a new television today, I would be part of that pre-order and I wouldn't even be batting an eye.
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post #4 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 08:44 PM
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Good news.

I've been hoping for a more reasonable price for OLED TVs for a while. Hopefully, OLED starts to do well, so it can become a more prominent technology.
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post #5 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 08:58 PM
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This is great news. Also LG's 4K OLED is starting at only ("only") $6500. OLED prices are really starting to fall fast. I imagine that by this time next year the 4K OLED models wont cost much more than their 4K LCD cousins. Its nice to see a company striving for the best PQ especially sense the competition seems to only be going after more "smart" features. Hopefully other companies pick up on this trend. If not OLED then at least give us full array LED LCD with a lot of zones.

I'm also happy to see that LG is using an OLED technology that has less issues than the RGB type.
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post #6 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 09:26 PM
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Yes.
Ditto
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post #7 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 09:46 PM
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From too expensive for 99.999% of the populace to too expensive for 99.99% of the populace (yeah, a $3-$4000 television is off the radar for the super duper majority).

Be interesting to see when a $1500 55"-60 set hits the stores.

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post #8 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
From too expensive for 99.999% of the populace to too expensive for 99.99% of the populace (yeah, a $3-$4000 television is off the radar for the super duper majority).

Be interesting to see when a $1500 55"-60 set hits the stores.

James

Premium flat-screen TVs account for about 10% of the overall TV market, or about 20 Million units a year. Last year that was TVs in the $3000 and above price range though this year that premium pricing appears to have come down closer to $2000.


So with some handwaving, TVs costing less than $2000 account for about 90% of the market and TVs costing less than $3000 (or possibly $4000) account for 99% of the market.


So TVs costing more than $3000 (or possibly $4000) represent a full 1% of the market and not 0.01% as you are suggesting.


0.01% of the market represents 20,000 TVs and probably is limited to ultra-large TVs costing $20,000 or more like the 110" Samsung TV, the 85" Sony X950B, and possibly also the 120" Visio Reference Series (which remains unpriced).


Before their pricebreak, LG sold about 4000 OLED TVs in a year, representing 0.002% of the market. With the ~$3500 pricing they are introducing the 55" Gen-2 OLED at, they will increase this market share tremendously and should start reaching market share in the several 0.1% level (100,000s of OLEDs per year).


By 2016, LG wants to sell 1 million OLEDs per year, representing 0.5% of the market. If the Gen-2 products they are introducing are ready for prime time, they are in an excellent position to achieve this by then.


It's not your overall message that is wrong, just the numbers you used - multiply everything by a factor of 10 and you will be much closer to reality...
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post #9 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 11:02 PM
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Ditto
And I will ditto that

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post #10 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Premium flat-screen TVs account for about 10% of the overall TV market, or about 20 Million units a year. Last year that was TVs in the $3000 and above price range though this year that premium pricing appears to have come down closer to $2000.


So with some handwaving, TVs costing less than $2000 account for about 90% of the market and TVs costing less than $3000 (or possibly $4000) account for 99% of the market.


So TVs costing more than $3000 (or possibly $4000) represent a full 1% of the market and not 0.01% as you are suggesting.


0.01% of the market represents 20,000 TVs and probably is limited to ultra-large TVs costing $20,000 or more like the 110" Samsung TV, the 85" Sony X950B, and possibly also the 120" Visio Reference Series (which remains unpriced).


Before their pricebreak, LG sold about 4000 OLED TVs in a year, representing 0.002% of the market. With the ~$3500 pricing they are introducing the 55" Gen-2 OLED at, they will increase this market share tremendously and should start reaching market share in the several 0.1% level (100,000s of OLEDs per year).


By 2016, LG wants to sell 1 million OLEDs per year, representing 0.5% of the market. If the Gen-2 products they are introducing are ready for prime time, they are in an excellent position to achieve this by then.


It's not your overall message that is wrong, just the numbers you used - multiply everything by a factor of 10 and you will be much closer to reality...
^^^^
what that guy said. Brings some optimism to the table...or couch.
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post #11 of 135 Old 08-11-2014, 11:55 PM
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Good news. Hope the motion performance is improved this year.
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post #12 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 12:03 AM
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Great news !!!That's a very significant price drop.

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post #13 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post
This is great news. Also LG's 4K OLED is starting at only ("only") $6500. OLED prices are really starting to fall fast. I imagine that by this time next year the 4K OLED models wont cost much more than their 4K LCD cousins. Its nice to see a company striving for the best PQ especially sense the competition seems to only be going after more "smart" features. Hopefully other companies pick up on this trend. If not OLED then at least give us full array LED LCD with a lot of zones.

I'm also happy to see that LG is using an OLED technology that has less issues than the RGB type.

Not sure I would agree with that last statement.
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post #14 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:38 AM
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Good news for the market, but I wish that other companies would put forth more effort into their OLED development. Personally I have never been impressed by any LG monitor I've seen.

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post #15 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:50 AM
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The price drop is very impressive. However, we still have to see how it handles motion, longevity issues, dead pixels, IR and burn in and of course, a curve means no sale for me. Not even for $100.00. Get back to me when they are flat and for 55", well under $2k.
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post #16 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:59 AM
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Good news for the market, but I wish that other companies would put forth more effort into their OLED development. Personally I have never been impressed by any LG monitor I've seen.
Then you haven't seen them all. LG and OLED are doing just fine. They see OLED as the future and apparently aren't running out of $ like Panasonic and Sony.

Nothing wrong with this LG panel - start at this post - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-fla...l#post23906669

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post #17 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:24 AM
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This is great news! Hopefully in the next year or two we see 65" around the $3000 price range.
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post #18 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
if I were buying a new television today, I would be part of that pre-order and I wouldn't even be batting an eye.

I would wait a year and get the 4K version for the same price next year.


I doubt many will buy this TV since it's not 4K. If you're a typical Best Buy shopper and you can get this TV or a 65" 4K LCD for the same price, almost all will pick the 65" LCD. Size is by far the biggest factor in TV purchases and the second biggest factor is resolution. Not saying that those should be the biggest factor, but data shows it is.
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post #19 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Premium flat-screen TVs account for about 10% of the overall TV market, or about 20 Million units a year. Last year that was TVs in the $3000 and above price range though this year that premium pricing appears to have come down closer to $2000.


So with some handwaving, TVs costing less than $2000 account for about 90% of the market and TVs costing less than $3000 (or possibly $4000) account for 99% of the market.


So TVs costing more than $3000 (or possibly $4000) represent a full 1% of the market and not 0.01% as you are suggesting.


0.01% of the market represents 20,000 TVs and probably is limited to ultra-large TVs costing $20,000 or more like the 110" Samsung TV, the 85" Sony X950B, and possibly also the 120" Visio Reference Series (which remains unpriced).


Before their pricebreak, LG sold about 4000 OLED TVs in a year, representing 0.002% of the market. With the ~$3500 pricing they are introducing the 55" Gen-2 OLED at, they will increase this market share tremendously and should start reaching market share in the several 0.1% level (100,000s of OLEDs per year).


By 2016, LG wants to sell 1 million OLEDs per year, representing 0.5% of the market. If the Gen-2 products they are introducing are ready for prime time, they are in an excellent position to achieve this by then.


It's not your overall message that is wrong, just the numbers you used - multiply everything by a factor of 10 and you will be much closer to reality...
can I ask where you got your statistics from?

that 10% number you use for TV's over 3K sounds high to me

and were those numbers based on models as they were originally priced or actual transaction prices?

The LG 55" OLED that Microcenter has for $1999 would be an example of what I am talking about...and from what I can see they have moved a LOT of those units at that price

Another example would be the samsung 64" f8500 I bought for under $2K....far below the average transaction price of that Tv last December when I bought it

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post #20 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:54 AM
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Size is by far the biggest factor in TV purchases
and the second biggest factor is resolution. Not saying that those should be the biggest factor, but data shows it is.
yep

a big a*& TV at a low price will sell

hence my reason to believe Vizio will do well this year with their larger FALD models at the unbelievable price points they are

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post #21 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:55 AM
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Flat, 4K, OLED.

I was waiting for that, until I saw an LG 55UB9500. I thought the only way to circumvent the off-axis viewing bugaboo, was to wait patiently for OLED, but LG does a great job with the 9500 series IPS panel in that regard.

Almost like having your cake and eating it too, and I would imagine, at about 1/4 the price of the first generation 55" OLED 4K sets. Whenever they get here.
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post #22 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 06:34 AM
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Can't really call it a "flat" panel though
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post #23 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 06:57 AM
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can I ask where you got your statistics from?

that 10% number you use for TV's over 3K sounds high to me

and were those numbers based on models as they were originally priced or actual transaction prices?

The LG 55" OLED that Microcenter has for $1999 would be an example of what I am talking about...and from what I can see they have moved a LOT of those units at that price

Another example would be the samsung 64" f8500 I bought for under $2K....far below the average transaction price of that Tv last December when I bought it

Warren
I would expect many of his numbers comes from Displaysearch which tracks this stuff globally. These numbers are a moving target and sometimes cannot forecast newly forged partnerships - if you referenced 2013 Displaysearch vs 2014 current numbers they grown significantly..

It is estimated by them that LG will sell 800,000 OLED TV's in 2014 (Globally) and six million by 2017 while they estimate 20 million UHD TV's 2014(All manufacturers Globally) Often there's too much focus on this forum of N. America numbers in predicting growth. There's a whole other world that matters in success/failure and for now LG has a monopoly - GLOBALLY for now.

LG recently partnered in China with three of the largest LCD Co's to provide them OLED panels and that market is massive as Innolux is one of the largest sellers of LCD on the planet so add sales in China.

My guess is Samsung will re-emerge with OLED advancements as they've never taken a back seat to LG when it comes to TV's just as they've taken their time to overcome Apple's IPhone lead in smart phones.

My point is that these numbers globally and with new partnerships forged are far greater than expected versus what was being touted a year ago and after all for now OLED is NOT targeting low end, they are moving to compete with the Flagships of Sony, Samsung and out of the gate virtually every review site deemed even the first gen OLED as Reference quality. Most here have likely never heard of Innolux but that is a monster market in China and globally for LG and OLED.

LG could be the foundation and savior of OLED as we've seen so many next best fall by the wayside. The numbers are much greater than expected and N America is just one piece of the global pie - I don't know that LG ever wants OLED to become the Vizio of the market but a reference quality high profit panel. Price drops will make them more mainstream but doesn't mean LCD is going away for at least 5 yrs or longer. Eventually, everything evolves and today's best is the enemy of tomorrows better. However, if longevity proves problematic 5 years from now like Sony and it's SXRD green blob issues - we could all end up screwed taking the risk but longevity is a difficult predictor since replicating time factor is an area we've not yet mastered.

(My volume numbers come from 2014 Displaysearch articles)
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post #24 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I would expect many of his numbers comes from Displaysearch which tracks this stuff globally. These numbers are a moving target and sometimes cannot forecast newly forged partnerships - if you referenced 2013 Displaysearch vs 2014 current numbers they grown significantly..

It is estimated by them that LG will sell 800,000 OLED TV's in 2014 (Globally) and six million by 2017 while they estimate 20 million UHD TV's 2014(All manufacturers Globally) Often there's too much focus on this forum of N. America numbers in predicting growth. There's a whole other world that matters in success/failure and for now LG has a monopoly - GLOBALLY for now.

LG recently partnered in China with three of the largest LCD Co's to provide them OLED panels and that market is massive as Innolux is one of the largest sellers of LCD on the planet so add sales in China.

My guess is Samsung will re-emerge with OLED advancements as they've never taken a back seat to LG when it comes to TV's just as they've taken their time to overcome Apple's IPhone lead in smart phones.

My point is that these numbers globally and with new partnerships forged are far greater than expected versus what was being touted a year ago and after all for now OLED is NOT targeting low end, they are moving to compete with the Flagships of Sony, Samsung and out of the gate virtually every review site deemed even the first gen OLED as Reference quality. Most here have likely never heard of Innolux but that is a monster market in China and globally for LG and OLED.

LG could be the foundation and savior of OLED as we've seen so many next best fall by the wayside. The numbers are much greater than expected and N America is just one piece of the global pie - I don't know that LG ever wants OLED to become the Vizio of the market but a reference quality high profit panel. Price drops will make them more mainstream but doesn't mean LCD is going away for at least 5 yrs or longer. Eventually, everything evolves and today's best is the enemy of tomorrows better. However, if longevity proves problematic 5 years from now like Sony and it's SXRD green blob issues.

(My volume numbers come from 2014 Displaysearch articles)
true...but due to the location of most posters here we are most concerned about North America

Remember...all products dont make it to North America. Blu ray recorders are good example

Projection numbers are ok...however they have been inflated in the past
Its seems that manufacturing costs( i would assume) have fallen sharply on edge lit LED
Based on their prevailing selling prices that have seemed to fall 10-15% per year

Based on the value per inch , and public acceptance with their buying dollar, that technology should be around for a good while

OLED is going to have to come down to earth on price
Though if these deals at Microcenter are an indicator then that may be a good sign

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post #25 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:09 AM
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Nice touch adding the "wouldn't you" to the end of your post Scott.

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post #26 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I would wait a year and get the 4K version for the same price next year.


I doubt many will buy this TV since it's not 4K. If you're a typical Best Buy shopper and you can get this TV or a 65" 4K LCD for the same price, almost all will pick the 65" LCD. Size is by far the biggest factor in TV purchases and the second biggest factor is resolution. Not saying that those should be the biggest factor, but data shows it is.
Good thing I'm not Joe Six-pack shopping at Costco. Well, actually, I am - but that's beside the point. You are right, most will go with size and marketing over PQ (see the Death of Plasma for an example). But there are some of us, and I was speaking for myself, that would bend over backwards to have a quality OLED screen. At 55" I'm not terribly worried about 4K as I won't possibly be sitting (or more likely be lying in bed at that size) close enough to the screen for 4K to make a big enough difference that I would want to wait an extra year if I was already in the market.
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post #27 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:19 AM
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not for me at that size and price - i have a 60 in vizio and am quite happy with it but it has the soap opera effect that makes great shows and movies look like after noon specials - the image is technically great but has a look that makes movies like 12 yrs a slave look cheesy....now with my projector the images look like the should....will the oled screens correct this?
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post #28 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kualakin View Post
Flat, 4K, OLED.

I was waiting for that, until I saw an LG 55UB9500.
You cannot have very good picture quality without having very deep blacks (which 55UB9500 doesn't have).
StinDaWg and Vegas oled like this.
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post #29 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:34 AM
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Don't care that much about curve or flat, as long as LG improves the Input Lag.
Gamers as well care about picture quality, so it would be great if I didn't need to wait for Sony to release their OLED set to enjoy gaming with low lag.
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post #30 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 08:09 AM
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Gee guys. We are drifting from the question "wouldn't you" that Scott asked. I suppose it doesn't matter though as long as you keep on posting. So I will smoothly ask some question (of which being almost all knowing I know most of the answers to) designed to keep the hits coming. You indirectly support the forum and help keep it going financially every time you posts. More hits. more advertisers and higher rates for ads.

What do you think is important to picture quality? What does OLED have to offer over plasma and edge lit LCD.. Is input lag over a certain time a defect in design like too small a drain in a bath tub? I will answer that it is not a defect but something that is a result of providing enough processing to provide good deinterlacing and scaling? Should a manufacturer use less processing to get reduced lag thus err fixing it. Maybe a game mode which bypasses superior scaling etc.

Is OLED the ultimate display technology? Why?

Hope you like this post Scott.

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Last edited by mark haflich; 08-16-2014 at 08:07 AM.
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