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post #1 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Value Electronics 2014 Flat-Panel Shootout Live Stream



If you can't attend this year's shootout in person, you can still catch the action by watching a live video stream from the event.

This year marks the 10th anniversary of the Value Electronics flat-panel shootout, held at the retailer's showroom in Scarsdale, NY, on Saturday and Sunday, August 16 and 17. Owner Robert Zohn has assembled four top-of-the-line UHD LED-LCD TVs and three (possibly four) 1080p TVs, all of which are fully calibrated in a light-controlled environment. (For a list of the TVs in this year's shootout, click here.) A group of video enthusiasts and journalists will gather, evaluate the sets in several different picture-performance characteristics, and vote on which one they think is the best. These votes are tallied separately for consumers and professionals, and a winner is declared for each group. In addition, several experts, including video guru Joe Kane and plasma pioneer Larry Weber as well as the calibrators who set up the TVs, will offer presentations, and manufacturer representatives will talk about their sets.

I know many people—including myself—who would love to be there in person but can't make it for one reason or another. Fortunately, you can still witness the entire event in a live online stream, which you can watch here. The festivities begin on Saturday at 6:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time and continue until perhaps midnight, then the action picks up again on Sunday at 3:00 PM EDT and continues for around five hours. It's the ultimate binge watching for TV geeks around the world!

In case you missed the link to the live stream in the text above, here it is again:

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/632436

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post #2 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 12:25 PM
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Not Enough Vizio TV's this year in the shootout.
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post #3 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


If you can't attend the 10th annual flat-panel shootout in person, you can still catch the action by watching a live video stream from the event.

This year marks the 10th anniversary of the Value Electronics flat-panel shootout, held at the retailer's showroom in Scarsdale, NY, on Saturday and Sunday, August 16 and 17. Owner Robert Zohn has assembled four top-of-the-line UHD LED-LCD TVs and three (possibly four) 1080p TVs, all of which are fully calibrated in a light-controlled environment. (For a list of the TVs in this year's shootout, click here.) A group of video enthusiasts and journalists will gather, evaluate the sets in several different picture-performance characteristics, and vote on which one they think is the best. These votes are tallied separately for consumers and professionals, and a winner is declared for each group. In addition, several experts, including video guru Joe Kane and plasma pioneer Larry Weber as well as the calibrators who set up the TVs, will offer presentations, and manufacturer representatives will talk about their sets.

I know many people—including myself—who would love to be there in person but can't make it for one reason or another. Fortunately, you can still witness the entire event on a live online stream, which you can watch here. The festivities begin on Saturday at 6:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time and continue until perhaps midnight, then the action picks up again on Sunday at 3 PM EDT and continues for around five hours. It's the ultimate binge watching for TV geeks around the world!

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That link is just a link to the thread posted at the end of July that still includes a 'possible' classification for the Vizio M Series (and no mention of the last-minute 'surprise' TV). So with the event starting in three hours, do we actually know what the 'final final' list of contenders is???
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post #4 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That link is just a link to the thread posted at the end of July that still includes a 'possible' classification for the Vizio M Series (and no mention of the last-minute 'surprise' TV). So with the event starting in three hours, do we actually know what the 'final final' list of contenders is???
Well, that's all the info we currently have. Robert wanted to keep a few things secret before the event, so the only way to know the "final final" list is to watch the live stream.

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post #5 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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You can watch live stream on your TV with the Roku.

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post #6 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Well, that's all the info we currently have. Robert wanted to keep a few things secret before the event, so the only way to know the "final final" list is to watch the live stream.

Fair enough - guess we have to give him credit for knowing how to build a sense of suspense :-)


Hopefully he'll let us all know the final list right at the start of the event at 6pm ET and not keep the wraps on a set or two until the middle of the event...


Since I know he had the Vizio M in hand, I'm particularly interested to know whether that TV 'made the cut' or not and will be included in the 1080p competition.
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post #7 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 01:55 PM
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Is there any doubt an OLED will win?
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post #8 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Well, that's all the info we currently have. Robert wanted to keep a few things secret before the event, so the only way to know the "final final" list is to watch the live stream.

The final participant list has just been posted by HDGuru: http://hdguru.com/2014-shootout-for-...nd/#more-14099


"Zohn provided HD Guru with the set-up photos. The competing UHD 4K models are:
Samsung
UN105S9 curved panel 105-inch 21:9 aspect ratio back-lit LED LCD with local dimming . This is the most expensive model in the competition selling for $120,000
UN78HU9000 curved panel 78-inch edge-lit LED LCD with local dimming
UN85HU8550 flat panel 85-inch LED LCD back-lit with local dimming
Sony
XBR85X950B flat panel 85-inch LED LCD back-lit with local dimming
XBR79X900B flat panel 79-inch edge-it LED LCD with local dimming

Competing HDTV models are
Samsung
PN64F8500 flat panel plasma
KN55S9 curved panel OLED
LG
55EC9300 curved panel OLED



There will also be a Vizio M652i-B2 flat panel back-lit with local dimming LED LCD HDTV on-hand. However, it will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group."

So the Vizio M will be there but will not be voted on (which is too bad :-( but there will be a 105" $120,000 Samsung FALD LED/LCD to represent the class :-)
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post #9 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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Interesting they went with the 79" 900B which is an IPS panel and not as good as the 65" VA
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post #10 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 02:28 PM
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Cool

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Is there any doubt an OLED will win?
Perhaps not among the calibrators if we have any dedicated plasmaphiles.
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post #11 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 02:46 PM
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Perhaps not among the calibrators if we have any dedicated plasmaphiles.
A plasmaphile would favor a plasma, such as the f8500 contestant, by definition.
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post #12 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 03:03 PM
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You can watch live stream on your TV with the Roku.
Well you can do the same thing without a roku by just using the web browser if you have a Smart TV. I'll be watching on my Sammy F8500's browser.
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post #13 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 03:13 PM
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Yes I have an a (Smart TV) but I prefer to use the Roku or my HTPC. I rarely use the ( Smart ) feature on any TV.






Enjoy the shootout...

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post #14 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 03:48 PM
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HDGURU keeps reporting the 85" HU8550 as being backlit rather than edge-lit. I'd assumed this was wrong but has there been any definitive proof that it is/isn't backlit?
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post #15 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 03:58 PM
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Stream is live.
Until midnight? So until 6 am here in Germany.
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post #16 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
There will also be a Vizio M652i-B2 flat panel back-lit with local dimming LED LCD HDTV on-hand. However, it will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group."

So the Vizio M will be there but will not be voted on (which is too bad :-( but there will be a 105" $120,000 Samsung FALD LED/LCD to represent the class :-)
Oh, that's rich fafrd! You have been touting Vizio ever since CES and the M series wasn't even good enough to make the competition!

Will you please now stop comparing all high end LCDs and OLEDs to Vizio LCDs?!?
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post #17 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
HDGURU keeps reporting the 85" HU8550 as being backlit rather than edge-lit. I'd assumed this was wrong but has there been any definitive proof that it is/isn't backlit?
This is very confusing, since Samsung uses the term "backlit local dimming" with this model. However, on the live stream, Mike Wood just said it's edgelit and, in fact, less sophisticated than the edgelit dimming on the HU9000.

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post #18 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 04:40 PM
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Don't be fooled. The LCDs already show obvious issues with viewing angles and black levels. Plasma and OLED do not. Viewed head on LCD is not bad but off angle it gets ugly fast.
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post #19 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 04:52 PM
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Oh, that's rich fafrd! You have been touting Vizio ever since CES and the M series wasn't even good enough to make the competition!

Will you please now stop comparing all high end LCDs and OLEDs to Vizio LCDs?!?

Unlikely.


Also unlikely that you or anyone else on the Forum is going to succeed to provoke me regarding my interest in Vizio this year in any way that you will end up feeling satisfied about. Let's review a few facts:

The M Series is Vizio's 'Mid-range' line (hence the name :-) Just the fact that it has been taken seriously enough to be evaluated is a credit to Vizio's 2014 linup. The P Series is teed up to be hitting the channels a month from now (19 pallets-worth of 55" P Series TVs arrived in the US in early August) and the R Series is the only TV from Vizio's 2014 lineup that has the credentials to really be a candidate for a 'best-of-the-best' shootout like this.

VE Electronics does not sell Vizio TVs, so they have an interest to find reasons to justify keeping that lowest-priced potential entrant out of the competition (while they also have an interest to show their openness to finding the best among all submitted entrants, so evaluating the Vizio and considering it for entry was a good move on their part).

The 105" $120,000 Samsung FALD LED/LCD is the 'surprise' entrant and this will be the first time ever that such an expensive 'showpiece' TV has been displayed let alone calibrated and evaluated by third parties ever. Now why do you suppose that might be? Robert scores a fantastic coup for VE and the shootout but if I'm Samsung and if I'm considering the possibility to allow VE to have my premium showpiece TV for the Shootout, I'd probably want to assure that a 'certain standard' is maintained. Wouldn't want my $120,000 dollar star thoroughbred TV to be mixing company with a value TV costing 1/80th of the price from my primary competitor in the US market, now would I?

Robert has the highest ethics but I don't believe the same can be said for Samsung and Robert needs to do whatever will be in the best interest of Value Electronics and the Shootout, I mean he has a business to run, after all.

Why would Samsung even consider such an unusual move? My confidence that the 120" Vizio Reference Series is actually going to hit the market this year just increased by 1000%. Vizio has scheduled a press event on September 23rd for the launch of the P Series and I'll give even odds they are also going to announce something regarding the R Series. If Vizio 120" Reference TV is actually for real and is going to be available before year-end, and I'm Samsung and I get wind of this, no question I will be taking pre-emptive moves with everything in my arsenal to preempt Vizio's initiative and assure that I take the mantle of first-mover in 100"+ LED/LCD TVs that are actually available to consumers. So move one is to include the UN015S9 in the 2014 VE Shootout where it is likely to get high scores, great visibility, and hopefully even an award or two, and step to is to prepare for a dramatic price drop soon after Vizio has announced the pricing and availability of the 120" Reference Series.

The market has shifted this year more than any year in recent memory and Vizio and LG are the primary actors. Samsung is on their heals and this is all-out war to hang on to market leadership and the mantle of being an innovator.

My prediction is that the $120,000 UN105S9 is likely to receive an unimaginable discount before the year is out (and any interested buyers have no one other than Vizio to thank for that :-)
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post #20 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 04:57 PM
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Don't be fooled. The LCDs already show obvious issues with viewing angles and black levels. Plasma and OLED do not. Viewed head on LCD is not bad but off angle it gets ugly fast.
Mark, since the Vizio M Series is not going to get scored, I'd be very interested in any comments you can provide as to how it stacks up against the other LED/LCDs in these two important areas of deficiency versus plasma and OLED.
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post #21 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:00 PM
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Also surprised the Samsung OLED looks as bad as it does off-angle. Very obvious color shift. F8500 in a very disadvantageous position far up on the wall.
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post #22 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:05 PM
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[ rant]
I am seriously a fan of Robert and what he does, but it's hard to imagine a more useless event than this....

2 1080p OLEDs, one of which hasn't been manufactured in many months and is de facto discontinued
A plasma that is also essentially discontinued
2 Sony LCDs, one of which is $25,000... the other of which is $8,000, higher priced than any winner of the shootout by far, larger by far than any winner, and edge lit
3 Samsung LCDs, one of which is completely absurd at $120,000, more pricey than a well equipped Tesla Model S... a second of $10,000 and 85 inches, features and prices that rule it out for 99.99% of buyers for one or both reasons... oh, and it's also edge lit (despite claims to the contrary)... the third is still $8,000 (see above), still too big for the vast majority of buyers, still edge lit

It's never been less consequential who wins, finishes second, etc. These TVs represent bad technological choices (1080p!), bad size choices for the vast majority of buyers (78, 85, 105 are dealbreakers straight up for 99% of people), and unrealistic prices for a similar percentage of people. This is a shootout for the 0.01% who honestly have more money and space than taste.

If you really want to burn a small fortune on a TV, at least wait for a 4K OLED.

[ /rant]

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #23 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:14 PM
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Also surprised the Samsung OLED looks as bad as it does off-angle. Very obvious color shift. F8500 in a very disadvantageous position far up on the wall.

Lot's of subtle ways to attempt to bias the results, eh?
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post #24 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:15 PM
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Robert has the highest ethics but I don't believe the same can be said for Samsung and Robert needs to do whatever will be in the best interest of Value Electronics and the Shootout, I mean he has a business to run, after all.
My experience w/Mr Zohn was NOT a pleasant 1...He does NOT do biz ethically. You're right about his best interests though! To hell with Samsung too, VE & them sent me 3 lemons. Finally got a demo Elite Pro-60x5f from a local B&M and all is well.
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post #25 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
[ rant]
I am seriously a fan of Robert and what he does, but it's hard to imagine a more useless event than this....

2 1080p OLEDs, one of which hasn't been manufactured in many months and is de facto discontinued
A plasma that is also essentially discontinued
2 Sony LCDs, one of which is $25,000... the other of which is $8,000, higher priced than any winner of the shootout by far, larger by far than any winner, and edge lit
3 Samsung LCDs, one of which is completely absurd at $120,000, more pricey than a well equipped Tesla Model S... a second of $10,000 and 85 inches, features and prices that rule it out for 99.99% of buyers for one or both reasons... oh, and it's also edge lit (despite claims to the contrary)... the third is still $8,000 (see above), still too big for the vast majority of buyers, still edge lit

It's never been less consequential who wins, finishes second, etc. These TVs represent bad technological choices (1080p!), bad size choices for the vast majority of buyers (78, 85, 105 are dealbreakers straight up for 99% of people), and unrealistic prices for a similar percentage of people. This is a shootout for the 0.01% who honestly have more money and space than taste.

If you really want to burn a small fortune on a TV, at least wait for a 4K OLED.

[ /rant]

Rogo,


I'm curious as to your speculation why the 105" $120,000 105S9 was included in this year's shootout as a last-minute 'surprise' entrant. To me it can only mean that the 120" Vizio Reference is likely to be for real this year, but I'd be interesting in your thoughts...
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post #26 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:24 PM
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Lot's of subtle ways to attempt to bias the results, eh?
I will just note that the F8500 screen filter limits vertical viewing angles. The TV is over 12 feet high with no downward tilt. That is not right.

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post #27 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:33 PM
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[ rant]
I am seriously a fan of Robert and what he does, but it's hard to imagine a more useless event than this....

2 1080p OLEDs, one of which hasn't been manufactured in many months and is de facto discontinued
A plasma that is also essentially discontinued
2 Sony LCDs, one of which is $25,000... the other of which is $8,000, higher priced than any winner of the shootout by far, larger by far than any winner, and edge lit
3 Samsung LCDs, one of which is completely absurd at $120,000, more pricey than a well equipped Tesla Model S... a second of $10,000 and 85 inches, features and prices that rule it out for 99.99% of buyers for one or both reasons... oh, and it's also edge lit (despite claims to the contrary)... the third is still $8,000 (see above), still too big for the vast majority of buyers, still edge lit

It's never been less consequential who wins, finishes second, etc. These TVs represent bad technological choices (1080p!), bad size choices for the vast majority of buyers (78, 85, 105 are dealbreakers straight up for 99% of people), and unrealistic prices for a similar percentage of people. This is a shootout for the 0.01% who honestly have more money and space than taste.

If you really want to burn a small fortune on a TV, at least wait for a 4K OLED.

[ /rant]
This^

Thanks again Rogo from injecting some clarity and sanity to the 'shootout'.
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post #28 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:43 PM
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Why didnt they at least wait to get their hands on a 4K Oled or at least a 65 Oled?
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post #29 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I will just note that the F8500 screen filter limits vertical viewing angles. The TV is over 12 feet high with no downward tilt. That is not right.




They should have tilted that TV. Everyone is going to ignore that TV because it will be a pain in the neck.

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Last edited by losservatore; 08-16-2014 at 05:58 PM.
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post #30 of 632 Old 08-16-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


. The P Series is teed up to be hitting the channels a month from now (19 pallets-worth of 55" P Series TVs arrived in the US in early August)
where do you get this type of information from?

the same place you got those sales percentages you posted the other day......

BUT...if you are right about the 19 pallets...it sounds like Walmart is gearing up to be flush with new Vizio product



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