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post #1 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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2014 Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout Results Are In



The results of this year's flat-panel shootout are interesting, to say the least. Which technology won over the attendees and calibrators?

As many of you already know, the results of the 2014 Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout are in. The winner of the popular vote is the LG 55EC9300 curved OLED, which took the lead in four out of six picture-quality attributes, while last year's winner, the Samsung PN64F8500 plasma, won the other two (color accuracy and motion resolution). Interestingly, the calibrators picked the Samsung KN55S9C curved OLED as their favorite.


In this table of results, the average score in each of six picture-quality attributes is shown for each model in the shootout. The LG 55EC9300 OLED got top marks in black level, contrast ratio, day mode, and general-content video quality, while the Samsung PN64F8500 plasma led the pack in color accuracy and motion resolution, even with its disadvantageous position high up on the wall.

UPDATE: After these results were announced—and lots of comments about the outcome were received—Robert calculated the average of all six scores for each set as he did last year and found that the Samsung PN64F8500 came out on top using that metric. So for the the first time in the history of the shootout, he declared a tie between the LG OLED and Samsung plasma. Clearly, emissive displays trounce LCDs, even those with FALD illumination and UHD resolution.


Here we see the results of the ANSI contrast-ratio measurements for each set using a 4x4 array of white and black rectangles on the screen.

Mark Henninger (imagic) will post his impressions from the event in the next couple of days. Also, be sure to catch this week's Home Theater Geeks podcast, on which Value Electronics head Robert Zohn, calibrator Kevin Miller, Mark Henninger, and I will talk about the shootout in detail. You can watch the show live on Thursday, August 21, from 2:30 to 3:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time at live.twit.tv, and you can also join the chat room there or at irc.twit.tv. I monitor the chat room during the show, and I pass along questions posted there to the guests, so if you want to ask a question about the event, join the party!

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post #2 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:32 PM
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I figure I'll share my votes here:



Congratulations to LG. The OLED won despite a number of flaws that kept it from being perfect, which is a really good sign. I suspect the forthcoming UHD OLEDs will be formidable TVs. As it stands, 1080p still beats UHD... and the F8500 beat all of the LCDs in every single category. I also want to congratulate the audience as well as the pros for voting wisely.

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post #3 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I figure I'll share my votes here:



Congratulations to LG. The OLED won despite a number of flaws that kept it from being perfect, which is a really good sign. I suspect the forthcoming UHD OLEDs will be formidable TVs. As it stands, 1080p still beats UHD... and the F8500 beat all of the LCDs in every single category. I also want to congratulate the audience as well as the pros for voting wisely.
Interesting, your first two columns look a lot like mine. I had to leave early, so I voted only on the first three attributes. Off-axis, the Samsung OLED got very red during the grayscale test. I wasn't crazy about that. But I'd take it over any of the LCDs pretty much. I also preferred the LG's gentler curve. But no curve is even better in my opinion. If I needed a TV, I would go for the F8500.
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post #4 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


The results of this year's flat-panel shootout are interesting, to say the least. Which technology won over the attendees and calibrators?

As many of you already know, the results of the 2014 Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout are in. The winner of the popular vote is the LG 55EC9300 curved OLED, which took the lead in four out of six picture-quality attributes, while last year's winner, the Samsung PN64F8500 plasma, won the other two (color accuracy and motion resolution). Interestingly, the calibrators picked the Samsung KN55S9C curved OLED as their favorite.


In this table of results, the average score in each of six picture-quality attributes is shown for each model in the shootout. The LG 55EC9300 OLED got top marks in black level, contrast ratio, day mode, and general-content video quality, while the Samsung PN64F8500 plasma led the pack in color accuracy and motion resolution, even with its disadvantageous position high up on the wall.


Here we see the results of the ANSI contrast-ratio measurements for each set using a 4x4 array of white and black rectangles on the screen.

Mark Henninger (imagic) will post his impressions from the event in the next couple of days. Also, be sure to catch this week's Home Theater Geeks podcast, on which Value Electronics head Robert Zohn, calibrator Kevin Miller, Mark Henninger, and I will talk about the shootout in detail. You can watch the show live on Thursday, August 21, from 2:30 to 3:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time at live.twit.tv, and you can also join the chat room there or at irc.twit.tv. I monitor the chat room during the show, and I pass along questions posted there to the guests, so if you want to ask a question about the event, join the party!

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How the f*** did the OLEDs get 9.76 out of 10 for black level?
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post #5 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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Interesting that the black levels on the PN64F8500 were measured at .0041 this year and .0017 last year. Did any of the calibrators comment on this?

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post #6 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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That's great that motion resolution its what count in TV picture quality not the extra pixels that only look nice at close distance and with static images.
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post #7 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
How the f*** did the OLEDs get 9.76 out of 10 for black level?
I'm guessing it's because it has basically true "infinite" contrast, it's on, then it's off, there's no in between, like a light switch.
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post #8 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:02 PM
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Not to be too picky, and without the details of session setup, 2 observations

The measurements suggest that the panels were not levels matched
The images suggest off axis shifting or mismatched calibration

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post #9 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:02 PM
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I saw lots of negative comments about the LCd's in the AVS Shootout threads nevertheless the audience gave the LCd's decent votes, only the HU8550 got a bad note (Contrast Ratio 5.71). 6.0 and above is decent, right

The FALD, X950B, some negativity about this one to, got 7.5 avarage which is pretty good. Was the audience just polite, was there to much positivity going on or were AVS members overly negativ about LCd performance?

Been hearing a lot ''LCd motion resolution sucks''. then why do all LCd's get 7+ votes for motion resolution? When motion resolution, color or blacks sucks than the vote should be 4 not 7..

There is something not right here. What it comes down to for me is, how realistic is the outcome of the Shootout.? How realistic are the comments in the AVS Shootout threads?
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post #10 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I figure I'll share my votes here:



Congratulations to LG. The OLED won despite a number of flaws that kept it from being perfect, which is a really good sign. I suspect the forthcoming UHD OLEDs will be formidable TVs. As it stands, 1080p still beats UHD... and the F8500 beat all of the LCDs in every single category. I also want to congratulate the audience as well as the pros for voting wisely.
Hi Mark,
Curious to hear your reasoning behind rating the LG OLED higher than the Samsung for Color Accuracy in spite of its issue with cyan? (The Samsung wasn't perfect either, of course).

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post #11 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Been hearing a lot ''LCd motion resolution sucks''. then why do all LCd's get 7+ votes for motion resolution? When motion resolution, color or blacks sucks than the vote should be 4 not 7..
Maybe it's because it's a relative scoring system? When compared to the plasma none of them did all that great in the motion res dept.
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post #12 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I figure I'll share my votes here:



Congratulations to LG. The OLED won despite a number of flaws that kept it from being perfect, which is a really good sign. I suspect the forthcoming UHD OLEDs will be formidable TVs. As it stands, 1080p still beats UHD... and the F8500 beat all of the LCDs in every single category. I also want to congratulate the audience as well as the pros for voting wisely.
I just noticed the '4' you gave the LG OLED and I don't remember if anything was said about it during the event(to be honest, watching the stream was incredibly boring for the most part, though hearing from Joe Kane was definitely the highlight for me), was there something wrong with the display or did it simply perform that poorly in that area?
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post #13 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:16 PM
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8mile13 some of the panels were with some motion features (on) to make motion look better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Maybe it's because it's a relative scoring system? When compared to the plasma none of them did all that great in the motion res dept.
I do not look at it that way. To me 6 and above represent good enough. It is not just me this is how rating in general works. There is bad, good enough and excellent represented by a 4, 6, and 8.

Imagic gave LG OLED motion resolution a 4. That is a clear statement. It means in his view LG motion resoltion is bad. It as simple as that.
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Something doesn't add up...



The F8500 had the highest average score (or got the most points if you want to think about it that way).
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I do not look at it that way. To me 6 and above represent good enough. It is not just me this is how rating in general works. There is bad, good enough and excellent represented by a 4, 6, and 8.

Imagic gave LG OLED motion resolution a 4. That is a clear statement. It means in his view LG motion resoltion is bad. It as simple as that.
Because there are no absolutes of what defines a given score, each person essentially has their own scale so you have to look at relative differences between scores and not raw numbers.
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As the Forum Member who has Fought harder in the name of LG OLED I have one comment.


Do You Believe in LG OLED Now?
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post #18 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
How the f*** did the OLEDs get 9.76 out of 10 for black level?
Yea I agree that makes no sense those black level scores are complete nonsense especially when something measure 0 MLL
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post #19 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:29 PM
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No

Perhaps I misremembered.

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Curious to hear your reasoning behind rating the LG OLED higher than the Samsung for Color Accuracy in spite of its issue with cyan? (The Samsung wasn't perfect either, of course).
I'd be curious to hear the reasoning on why the 65" Vizio M-series set was excluded from the shootout.
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Something doesn't add up...



The F8500 had the highest average score (or got the most points if you want to think about it that way).
Good question, maybe the categories are weighted differently?
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post #22 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:32 PM
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Hi Mark,
Curious to hear your reasoning behind rating the LG OLED higher than the Samsung for Color Accuracy in spite of its issue with cyan? (The Samsung wasn't perfect either, of course).
Off-axis accuracy is why!

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8mile13 some of the panels were with some motion features (on) to make motion look better.
that is cheating..
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I think that the F8500 plasma would earned few more points if it wasn't placed that high. this was a torture.

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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
Because there are no absolutes of what defines a given score, each person essentially has their own scale so you have to look at relative differences between scores and not raw numbers.
Right, if there were more plasmas and maybe even a CRT or two those LEDs would be scored even worse than they are now.
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post #26 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:35 PM
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that is cheating..
We explained during the motion analysis section that some of the panels had processing (eg dark frame insertion) that produces clearer motion with video generated content, without harming film content. When we felt the feature was not detrimental to film content, it was enabled.

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WOOOOO HOO! The New King will be in my living room Wednesday!


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post #28 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Interesting that the black levels on the PN64F8500 were measured at .0041 this year and .0017 last year. Did any of the calibrators comment on this?
I believe the list of numbers are checkboard ANSI pattern. The bottom number is the full black screen reading. F8500 is mll .0025 and ANSI .0041. World class numbers very recently.
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post #29 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:37 PM
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Good question, maybe the categories are weighted differently?
They weren't last year. There was an extra column called average.
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post #30 of 544 Old 08-18-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Interesting that the black levels on the PN64F8500 were measured at .0041 this year and .0017 last year. Did any of the calibrators comment on this?

Good observation. Last year I was pointing out that this information was being suppressed. The numbers haven't changed. The .0017 is really only achievable on a completely black screen - think LCD dimming (black optimizer) technology.

I chalk it up to the usual Samsung tactics - I think they have pretty good sway over this event as well.
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