LG 55EC9300 55" OLED Owners ONLY Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
You have yellow all over the place, mine is only on the left side. I have almost removed all of this with further calibration.

I think it's important to note that it's almost impossible to have a truly white, uniform screen, with any technology. I've never seen it and I've had 2 Fujitsus, 2 Pioneer Elites, a Samsung F8500, a Sony XBR929 and a Sharp Elite. FWIW, the Elite has the closest to a uniform, full-screen white, but even there is isn't truly uniform from edge to edge. Of those displays, the only one whose uniformity bothered me to the extent that I returned it, was the Sony 929.

Instead of obsessing on these pictures of a white or gray screen (which by the picture's very nature may exaggerate the true appearance), owners should simply comment on how, if at all, this translates to enjoying actual content. Of course if all you do is watch slides or full-screen white fields, ignore what I'm saying.

I'm convinced that some people would return their displays if they saw uniformity issues that were never visible with actual content. I think the thought that 'it's just there' is enough to drive some nuts. Personally I'm pretty anal, but not 'that' anal. If from my seating position, content doesn't reveal an actual anomaly that's there (yes, that includes a stuck or dead pixel), then I'm really OK.
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post #812 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyGillis View Post
I am wondering if there is something directly behind that portion of the screen , such as the transformer or power supply, that might be causing this left side discoloration. It seems very odd that many of us have the same exact "defect" in the same exact place. I wonder if operational heat is causing this.

Have you been able to rid yourself of the yellow cast on the panel? I can only see during B&W content but it IS there and made things that were supposed to be bone white such as shirts look like barely yellowish. I am being ultra picky here, but my eyes did see it and for me it is the only thing on the panel that isn't up to snuff.

After breakfast I will put up some test screens and see how it looks without content. I am almost afraid to but it needs to be investigated. However compared to the massive shortcomings of every LCD panel I have ever had, this is a very small thing and nothing I would return this over. Still..........................
Marty, be careful as you follow others down this torturous, anal, "I must find the defect" path. It generally leads to a place you won't be happy in.

Put differently, whatever you do find with your OLED, compare it with the defects that each and every display technology has and then put the OLED defects in that perspective. At that point they may look quite trivial.

Edit: Note to self, stop skimming over some portions of posts. I didn't see your last sentence when writing, which essentially duplicates what I just said.
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post #813 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
Oh, hello there Pippi Langstrumpf! *wave* That's just priceless.

Hahaha. All of you three, you mean.

5 to 15IRE. That kind of crush would be so ovious, that even Ken Ross could not deny it.
See you joke, but I bet deep down inside you're convinced I'm not being very objective...which means you don't know me very well.
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post #814 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Marty, be careful as you follow others down this torturous, anal, "I must find the defect" path. It generally leads to a place you won't be happy in.

Put differently, whatever you do find with your OLED, compare it with the defects that each and every display technology has and then put the OLED defects in that perspective. At that point they may look quite trivial.

Edit: Note to self, stop skimming over some portions of posts. I didn't see your last sentence when writing, which essentially duplicates what I just said.
Excellent advise.
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post #815 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'm convinced that some people would return their displays if they saw uniformity issues that were never visible with actual content. I think the thought that 'it's just there' is enough to drive some nuts.
That's true of most of the display technology talked about and critiqued by most of the people at AVS. So what?

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #816 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bigtom4prez View Post
Yellowing is not unique to OLED. I have seen yellowing on all my plasma TV. It is most noticeable when watching golf when camera follows balls with a cloudy or light blue sky background. You really see it after a grayscale calibration. I believe is just the glass or plastic material on the set. Some older TVs really have excessive yellowing due to heat of the front glass or plastic. Bang Olufsen actually made a TV that had a meter that would come out and try to correct for the yellowing over the life time of the TV. Yes some TVs are worst than others. Not horrible but ignoring when you watch golf.
So this is something I can't quite wrap my head around. I can understand a gray scale issue across the entire screen and correcting for that with a proper calibration. What I can't understand (and I believe D-Nice said he could do it on the 9300) is correcting for a gray scale anomaly in a portion of a screen. How does one selectively adjust WB in a portion of a screen. Now I can understand trying to mask the anomaly by altering the entire WB, but I would assume that moves you away from a perfect WB and throws you into some non-conformity issues with Rec709.
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post #817 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but could this be an artifact from the polarizing filter for the passive 3D, combined with the curved screen?

I have to wait until next week, when my local Best Buy finally sets theirs up, to take a look in person.
No, no display is perfect and if you look you will find. Really not an issue with content, great display. Nothing to do with the curve, people try to hard to blame everything on the very slight curve.
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post #818 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
I think Vegas is on to something, LG might be purposely crushing IRE 5-15 to mask the uniformity issues. My grayscale on both sets have had trouble with them, they are clearly darker than they should be. My old HX929 can see quite a bit more in the 1%-4% black ranges, even though the overall blacks are much worse. To me, the #1 benefit of OLED is that shadow detail, and missing out on those darkest shades of gray ruins a huge benefit of OLED.

I have 3 options right now:
- Return my exchanged TV and go with a 65" 4k. I was thinking a UN65HU8550 for $3200 but I am worried about overall quality.. better or worse than my old HX929 for black levels? Clearly won't come close to OLED but it's 65" for the same price.
- Return it and get the first OLED back, which doesn't have a dead pixel and has the same ~4% black crush. I'm 99% sure at this point it is normal on these sets. I have no idea how they treated it though. They took it out of the box while I was there and fully inspected it.
- Return it and wait for the 65" 4K version. Take out a loan, and drop 6 grand on a TV.



Adjust the IRE setting for each bracket.
I don't recall the calibrated 9300 having this crush at the shootout, but I could be wrong. Anyone else that was there remember?
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post #819 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
While I have seen red and blue creep into the greyscale on a plasma, I have never seen yellowing. I have three plasmas currently in use here, 2 Pannys and one Pioneer. I have had the 2 Pannys for over 10 years each and have not even the hint of yellow. Maybe others have it but I have not seen it here. I would not be a happy camper with it on an OLED.
So red & blue creep is OK on a plasma, but not 'yellow creep' on an OLED.

As long as these 'creeps' don't creep into my regular content, I'm OK.
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post #820 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
I think Vegas is on to something, LG might be purposely crushing IRE 5-15 to mask the uniformity issues. My grayscale on both sets have had trouble with them, they are clearly darker than they should be. My old HX929 can see quite a bit more in the 1%-4% black ranges, even though the overall blacks are much worse. To me, the #1 benefit of OLED is that shadow detail, and missing out on those darkest shades of gray ruins a huge benefit of OLED.

I have 3 options right now:
- Return my exchanged TV and go with a 65" 4k. I was thinking a UN65HU8550 for $3200 but I am worried about overall quality.. better or worse than my old HX929 for black levels? Clearly won't come close to OLED but it's 65" for the same price.
- Return it and get the first OLED back, which doesn't have a dead pixel and has the same ~4% black crush. I'm 99% sure at this point it is normal on these sets. I have no idea how they treated it though. They took it out of the box while I was there and fully inspected it.
- Return it and wait for the 65" 4K version. Take out a loan, and drop 6 grand on a TV.



Adjust the IRE setting for each bracket.
I do not think you will be happy with any led, by nature they have uniformity issues and if you do go this route the 900b is much better then the Samsung. Stupid for LG to hide the uniformity issue as it is not visible during content. I actually got my display to look very good last night but it exposures grey scale uniformity at 10ire. So now if I jump between the old settings and the new on a 10 ire slide the uniformity issue appears with my new settings but I achieve a much better picture and grey scale.

Not worried about uniformity on a 10ire slide because I did not see it in content.
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post #821 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:14 AM
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Anyone have any word on the viewing angle? At what degree does the picture start to deteriorate. I'm really hoping for 120-130. Which is perfect for everyone in my place.

Also I would have to agree that going down that path of looking for defects is a slippery slope. I mean I look for them in all my displays just so I know they are there and can give feedback on fourms like AVS, but unless i see it all the time or even sometimes it's not worth loosing any sleep over. If it's something you can only see in patterns of a certain IRE of a specific color it's almost a none issue exception being white imho. just because you don't find something you cannot unseen cause many times once seen it cannot be unseen.

Oh also this does have Red, Green, and Blue only mode yes?

Also any info on the cyan issue? Has a firmware been released that corrected it or anything?

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post #822 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
While I have seen red and blue creep into the greyscale on a plasma, I have never seen yellowing. I have three plasmas currently in use here, 2 Pannys and one Pioneer. I have had the 2 Pannys for over 10 years each and have not even the hint of yellow. Maybe others have it but I have not seen it here. I would not be a happy camper with it on an OLED.
So red & blue creep is OK on a plasma, but not 'yellow creep' on an OLED.

As long as these 'creeps' don't creep into my regular content, I'm OK.
It's in the design of the panel and how these OLED's work. Me thinks they had to make a compromise in order to bring these sets to market. Very curious if the 65EC9700 will have the same issues.
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post #823 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
That's true of most of the display technology talked about and critiqued by most of the people at AVS. So what?
Whatever floats your boat. Personally I think the process of endlessly returning displays for issues that are not visible in actual content, is just a bit over-the-top. You will never be happy.

If the issues intrude into actual content, that's obviously a different story.
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post #824 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Whatever floats your boat. Personally I think the process of endlessly returning displays for issues that are not visible in actual content, is just a bit over-the-top. You will never be happy.

If the issues intrude into actual content, that's obviously a different story.
I agree, my last 900b would have never gone back if I did not go to OLED and there was not a good reason to return my last 9800. I way over did the returns.
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post #825 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post
Anyone have any word on the viewing angle? At what degree does the picture start to deteriorate. I'm really hoping for 120-130. Which is perfect for everyone in my place.

Also I would have to agree that going down that path of looking for defects is a slippery slope. I mean I look for them in all my displays just so I know they are there and can give feedback on fourms like AVS, but unless i see it all the time or even sometimes it's not worth loosing any sleep over. If it's something you can only see in patterns of a certain IRE of a specific color it's almost a none issue exception being white imho. just because you don't find something you cannot unseen cause many times once seen it cannot be unseen.

Oh also this does have Red, Green, and Blue only mode yes?

Also any info on the cyan issue? Has a firmware been released that corrected it or anything?
Don't get me started on cyan firmware releases.

My advice to anyone who has this issue and is bothered by it: Assume it will not be corrected by the manufacturer. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I learned my lesson from the endless promises made by Sharp that a fix is coming 'any day now, any day'. Uh huh. With that said, that should be the worst problem that any display has (IMO).
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post #826 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:33 AM
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I don't recall the calibrated 9300 having this crush at the shootout, but I could be wrong. Anyone else that was there remember?
Another calibrator mentioned that they were crushing the blacks when they don't have to, I posted his instructions a couple of pages back
He said it took him hours to get it right
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post #827 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:42 AM
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5x10, was this at the shootout?
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post #828 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Another calibrator mentioned that they were crushing the blacks when they don't have to, I posted his instructions a couple of pages back
He said it took him hours to get it right
D-nice is so darn good at calibrating he probably adjusted it out before he even knew it was there.
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post #829 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:49 AM
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Y'know, when I posted a link to the amazon offering to show that they're also selling it currently (you were right though---"ships in 3 to 5 weeks"), I received an AVS "warning" about posting links to retail sites? Seems silly to me.....this is really an issue?
Got my wrist slapped this morning for the very same thing. We are bad boys.
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post #830 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:49 AM
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5x10, was this at the shootout?
No sir, it was a calibrator that owns a 8800 that had the same issues with black crush
Ended up getting it sorted via the rbg settings
I can repost the advice in a few

Edit:instead of going nuts and raise brightness to 59 as some seems to do they should raise
RGB lows to around +4 for all instead.

i had to do in on my 880W as well
the RGB lows will not only affect colors near black it is also linked to the blacklevel.
raising RGB lows will give you better details near black also for the grayscale
they shouldnt touch the brightness setting.

but then after you have raised RGB lows your gamma will not be flat at 2.4 anymore.
(there goes the calibrated settings they use from the review)
they should calibrate gamma with the 20 point (not 10 point) measurements AFTER adjusting RGB lows.
it takes over 1 hour to get the gamma right.

to get more stable readings near black on their i1 Display Pro meters.
Do the calibration with OLED light around 50 (not lower)

Contrast should be set as high as possible so that levels up to level 234 are flashing on the white clipping file from avshd709.
that is contrast at 97 on the 880W

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post #831 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:56 AM
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It's a keeper!

I totally agree that as good as any panel may be overall, there will also be tiny flaws that some can deal with and others can not. Some can see them and others can not. In my case I am only interested in how it translates to my content and nothing else. I did throw up a few screens this morning to check. Yes there is a very slight tinge of yellowing on both ends around the last 20% or so of the screen. It is extremely translucent and barely there. It sometimes looks almost magenta if you stare at it long enough.

Anyway, on my regular content it only reveals itself on B&W films and only if there is a bone white object in that area of the screen. If you look for it, you can see it, otherwise it is not blatant and no reason for me to return this. I actually noticed the discoloration before people started posting about it while testing some 4:3 B&W BD titles. Whether it is caused by manufacturing or is just some sort of trade off, it really doesn't matter as it sounds like that is how they all are to one extent or another. Compared to the long list of LCD artifacts I have just lost, it's just not a major issue for me at all.

I am blown away by the 9300's ability to render DVD video. I first up-convert from the Oppo but I have never seen this sort of result before. I use Oppo's 24 frame feature on any DVD that can handle it. It is even more than the proper blacks and shadow detail finally emerging, it is something intangible that I can't actually describe, but none the less it is there. Basically, my DVD content that was shot on film LOOKS like film being projected. It is uncanny. I am over the moon with this as I have a very extensive DVD media collection, in addition to hundreds of BD titles and various Mkv's of every type.

The 9300 for me is a pleasure to watch. I ran the Spears and Munsil screens for contrast/brightness, color etc. Went to the AVS disc, then back to the S&M. I had previously eyeballed it and was within 1 or 2 points on each adjustment.

Grey scale appears to have the very last bar before total black slightly crushed. But since my grey scale has not been nailed, this is a pretty good outcome considering how poorly other TV's have performed for me in the past.

The only thing I am unable to do is properly set the grey scale. Don't have the gear or the experience to do it properly at his time. I am strongly leaning towards looking into a pro cal job after the break-in period of a few hundred hours,.

In the meantime I am judiciously alternating my content with an hour or two of each and also ending on at least an hour of 16:9 with no logos. I am hoping by being good to my 9300 it will be good to me. Sure as heck looks great and I finally feel I am no longer chasing my tail with my yearly (sometimes twice yearly) TV upgrades.

That's it, for me it's a keeper!
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post #832 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 09:57 AM
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So red & blue creep is OK on a plasma, but not 'yellow creep' on an OLED.

As long as these 'creeps' don't creep into my regular content, I'm OK.

Actually Ken, it is not OK on plasmas either or LCD/LED's. My plasmas are a clean as a whistle. The discoloration should not exist in only one section of the screen.
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post #833 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 10:09 AM
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Ok.. i think that went right over my head becasue i have no idea what that means
I think he is using gamer speak which is another language entirely.

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post #834 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I really think the negative of wrgb is the Uniformity at 10ire which LG Tried to disguise as some members who know how to calibrate a display found out. I was able to adjust this out by dumb luck and eye balling last night using the 20 point at the 5,10 and 15ire points. Samsung OLED has their own issue with off axis so nothing is perfect.

To be clear the uniformity at 10ire is only visible at night with dim lighting and a slide. Given the choice between LG's wrgb and the Samsung RGB with larger blue pixels, I would put my money on LG displays lasting longer.
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post #835 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 10:30 AM
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Are you also seeing slight yellowing or purple on the sides? Is it viewable in normal content?

I don't see that in mine at least now when it's a bit bright in the living room.

I guess I'll check later with some mspaint slides tonight
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post #836 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't see that in mine at least now when it's a bit bright in the living room.

I guess I'll check later with some mspaint slides tonight
This display would look much better calibrated.
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post #837 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 11:03 AM
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"In my case I am only interested in how it translates to my content and nothing else." Quote MartyGillis

Me too. I'm only interested in the PQ I can see in content. I don't want to go looking for problems. I don't want to know what the ingredients are in hot dogs. Have a ISF calibration scheduled for a week from this Monday. The calibrator did both my Pio' 150FD and 140FD and I've been happy with them for the past five years.
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post #838 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Actually Ken, it is not OK on plasmas either or LCD/LED's. My plasmas are a clean as a whistle. The discoloration should not exist in only one section of the screen.
I have never seen a totally white, totally free from any discoloration in any area of the screen, technology. I am very sensitive to these things and every screen I've ever seen has 'some' uniformity issues. I'd love to see a posted picture of your screen.

But again, either way, it I don't see it with actual content, it's fine with me.
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post #839 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I have never seen a totally white, totally free from any discoloration in any area of the screen, technology. I am very sensitive to these things and every screen I've ever seen has 'some' uniformity issues. I'd love to see a posted picture of your screen.

But again, either way, it I don't see it with actual content, it's fine with me.
X2 and agree with your posts above on the ability to calibrate out uniformity(or specifically not being able to calibrate it out)
My 9800 has a slight yellowing on the left hand side and it's present no matter what video mode I select(thx, game, isf1 and 2 both of which are settings I copied from calibrators)

But I can't stress enough that it just doesn't matter as I'm not seeing it on content
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post #840 of 3002 Old 08-30-2014, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by elphillips View Post
"In my case I am only interested in how it translates to my content and nothing else." Quote MartyGillis

Me too. I'm only interested in the PQ I can see in content. I don't want to go looking for problems. I don't want to know what the ingredients are in hot dogs. Have a ISF calibration scheduled for a week from this Monday. The calibrator did both my Pio' 150FD and 140FD and I've been happy with them for the past five years.
This is what you see in content, just excellent picture quality. This was before calibration and just a 1080i direct tv feed.
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