LG UHD/4K OLED TVs to Hit the Market This Year - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 322 Old 08-25-2014, 11:46 PM
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Who would be dumb enough to buy these OLED prototypes. Wait for few years until they fix the problems.
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post #92 of 322 Old 08-25-2014, 11:49 PM
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Pioneer made great TVs and reached its pinnacle in the 8th and 9th generations. These TVs were selling from 4K to 10K back then (twice the price of competition).

LG with its OLED is only in its 2nd and 3rd generation and being able to offer a 55" for 3.5K it is a great start for them and for consumers.

One can only imagine where the technology will be in few generations from now!

OTOH, if LG does not make the OLED "bulletproof" in early stage (about now) it risks that its competitors will destroy it with FUD (burn-in, not-lasting-long-time, inaccurate colors, etc.) , just like it happened to plasma...

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post #93 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 01:26 AM
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I'll buy one when a top manufacturer has an 85" for under 8k.

I've got 2019 in the pool.
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post #94 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 01:57 AM
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Expensive or not, I want to see what one of these can do.
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post #95 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 02:06 AM
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so this is more of a general question and not directed at this LG in particular...

how is 1080i broadcast content on these new 4K displays? does it look okay like it would on a 1080p display or is it worse?
i never really understood how upscaling works, but is that what is happening with these tvs and broadcast content?

i doubt i'll ever purchase another 1080p set for future proofing, but if broadcast content display quality is worse than on a 1080p oled set, i may have to stay with a 1080p oled set as i don't imagine broadcast moving to 4k anytime soon.
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post #96 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darealist View Post
Who would be dumb enough to buy these OLED prototypes. Wait for few years until they fix the problems.
What do you consider a problem?

All of the LCD sets for example have much worse reported problems than the OLED sets released to date seem to.
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post #97 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
firt of all i said nothing has change for me UHD-2 is more important.

but where did I said things like this feel free to quote.

I mean do you see a 65 zoll 1080p OLED for half the price of the UHD one.? i can't find one.
Buy 4k now or not thread. Search your post here.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-latest-industry-news/1611434-uhd-4k-quandary-buy-not-buy-55.html

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post #98 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 07:50 AM
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It seems to me moving toward a single line of flat/curve adjustable displays like those shown at CES would be the smart move. Would be a good marketing gimmick for the show floors like BB and please both flat and curved consumers. Unclear what kind of cost that adds, however, over having two distinct manufacturing processes for flat/curve. Maybe it could even save on their mfg costs.

That is if they decide to do flat at all. I don't mind the slight curve but prefer flat.

Will be interesting to see what they will have on show at IFA.

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post #99 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sippelmc View Post
It seems to me moving toward a single line of flat/curve adjustable displays like those shown at CES would be the smart move. Would be a good marketing gimmick for the show floors like BB and please both flat and curved consumers. Unclear what kind of cost that adds, however, over having two distinct manufacturing processes for flat/curve instead of two. Maybe it could even save on their mfg costs.

That is if they decide to do flat at all. I don't mind the slight curve but prefer flat.

Will be interesting to see what they will have on show at IFA.
Samsung is said to have their 105 bendable LCD on display, so lg should have their bendable 77 Oled there, but hopefull larger sizes.
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post #100 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:06 AM
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Well i can tell you my 65curved beast is the best damn set ive owned.

I almost didnt have this treasure because of listening to the members of these forums say curved is only gimmicky.

Well curved screens rock. They don't hurt the picture at all. They really look great in the house and the curve goes away after a few weeks. Its not visible unless you remind yourself.

To contribute something to this thread let me just say dont let someone tell you flat means better.

I did and it was wrong for me. Now i bought the set before i loved the curve.

But i wont buy another set if it doesnt have a curve. It has grown on me that much. Or the tv is that good.

My point is for those of you who waited for this magnificent television. Jump in. Dont worry about a curve.

It will be the only tv im jelly of.

No other tv will make me feel i have a lesser tv. But lg curved oled 4k. Damn.

Im so jelly.
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post #101 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:15 AM
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When it comes to designing a larger OLED, like say 65" and above, does the structural rigidity of the curve make it actually less costly to manufacture than making it flat? I assume that there is a certain degree of arc that is optimal.
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post #102 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
When it comes to designing a larger OLED, like say 65" and above, does the structural rigidity of the curve make it actually less costly to manufacture than making it flat? I assume that there is a certain degree of arc that is optimal.
The curve doesnt matter. It really shouldnt be an issue for your decision.
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post #103 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
You think 2016 for me? I can tell you that 2015 is not happening because I'm not getting a Gen 1 display and I consider the first 4K sets Gen 1. I guess 2016 is possible, though the Panasonic will be just 4 years old.
Not sure I'd agree with this Mark. I still see this as a 2nd gen or perhaps, even a 3rd gen OLED. Simply adding more pixels is not something so dramatic or something that would pull this back to a '1st gen' product. Now if LG had no experience with UHD, I might agree with you, but the fact is they do. So the upconversion process is nothing new to LG along with the other aspects of electronics that make for a UHD display.

I guess what I'm saying is there's nothing unique that I can see about a 4K OLED vs a 4K LCD, when you've already got 2 gens of OLED behind you.
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post #104 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by darealist View Post
Who would be dumb enough to buy these OLED prototypes. Wait for few years until they fix the problems.
Ugh, no, please everyone buy these so OLED sees continued development and price reductions so hopefully I can afford one in a couple years! Lol!
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post #105 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:38 AM
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The curve doesnt matter. It really shouldnt be an issue for your decision.
It's not an issue for me, or anybody else for that matter, if the TV is not offered in a flat configuration. Should we just accept the fact that curved will be our only option in large size OLED's because of structural limitations?
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post #106 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by darealist View Post
Who would be dumb enough to buy these OLED prototypes. Wait for few years until they fix the problems.
Oh, I don't know, maybe 'dumb' people like me who are looking for the best PQ available today.

This brings up the interesting, often repeated by those who don't want to jump in now, 'fix the problems' statement. What problems are those? Are they:

* A tendency to IR like plasma that was never really fixed either?
* Viewing angles that are somewhere between LCD & plasma that may well be inherent in the display tech as it is with LCD? If you require plasma like viewing angles, good luck to you waiting for 'future OLED improvements'. If you don't, then there's nothing wrong with current OLED viewing angles and you can scratch this 'problem' off your list.
* Is it the 'less than perfect' color that had to be isolated to one scene from one movie and was totally invisible with all other content to the attendees at the shootout?
* Oh wait, is it the fear that this display tech will 'only' last 5-10 years instead of 20 years? How long do you keep your displays?

Sorry, I don't see what these major 'prototype' issues and 'problems' are, but if it makes you feel better.....
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post #107 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 08:40 AM
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Ugh, no, please everyone buy these so OLED sees continued development and price reductions so hopefully I can afford one in a couple years! Lol!
I'm here to help sage!
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post #108 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
When it comes to designing a larger OLED, like say 65" and above, does the structural rigidity of the curve make it actually less costly to manufacture than making it flat? I assume that there is a certain degree of arc that is optimal.
Curving a surface about a single axis (in this case a vertical axis) will improve its rigidity in some ways, but will have no effect in others. For instance, a flat piece of paper can be folded horizontally, vertically, or diagonally with very little effort. Now, take that piece of paper and put a slight curve in it and then try to fold it. If the crease of the fold runs parallel to the axis about which the piece of paper is curved, it will be just as easy to fold as a flat piece of paper. However, if the crease runs any other direction, it will take more effort to fold and, unless you straighten the piece of paper first, will produce crinkles rather than a nice straight crease. The tradeoff for greater rigidity is less flexibility. Depending on the magnitude and direction of the forces applied, curving a thin material could make it more or less likely to break than if it had been flat.

My guess is that rigidity has nothing to do with the curve fad, though. If it did then you would think that one of the manufacturers would have said something about it when asked "Why curved?"
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post #109 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 10:51 AM
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I tend to think that the "4K" technology is more prototype than the displays themselves. No real standards are yet set, etc. My bigger concern is spending that amount of money and finding out my connectors are outdated in 3 years. I wish they would have gone with the "Evolution Kit" approach on these.
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post #110 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
When it comes to designing a larger OLED, like say 65" and above, does the structural rigidity of the curve make it actually less costly to manufacture than making it flat? I assume that there is a certain degree of arc that is optimal.
Less costly to make? No. But quite possibly -- as I speculated elsewhere -- more possible to make a tabletop stand that holds up a TV that is strong enough to withstand day-to-day living.

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Not sure I'd agree with this Mark. I still see this as a 2nd gen or perhaps, even a 3rd gen OLED. Simply adding more pixels is not something so dramatic or something that would pull this back to a '1st gen' product. Now if LG had no experience with UHD, I might agree with you, but the fact is they do. So the upconversion process is nothing new to LG along with the other aspects of electronics that make for a UHD display.
We'll agree to disagree on this one. I see this as very much Gen 1 because (a) LG has had a bear of time with IGZO period (b) LG will need to repattern the pixels for 4K or else the amount of fill on these sets is likely to be very unsatisfying (c) it's not like they've sold more than a few thousand TVs total, worldwide thus far (maybe five figures by now?).
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I guess what I'm saying is there's nothing unique that I can see about a 4K OLED vs a 4K LCD, when you've already got 2 gens of OLED behind you.
Well, knowing what I know about the manufacturing and the lousy IGZO backplane yields and the pixel fill on the 1080 and the sales, I see a lot unique about it. But even if there was nothing unique about it... The existing track record on so few TVs -- with so many problems, to be honest, based on the anecdotes we've read here at AVS -- isn't great yet. I want a lot more reports that don't mention glitches, weirdly retained images, etc. In short, I want all of you to enjoy a year of your TVs and let me know how it goes. Selfish? Maybe. Pragmatic? Very. (And I'm in no rush to spend $10,000 or more on the TV I want when it will be a lot cheaper in 2 years anyway. I don't value 2 years of OLED at $4000.)

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Oh, I don't know, maybe 'dumb' people like me who are looking for the best PQ available today.

This brings up the interesting, often repeated by those who don't want to jump in now, 'fix the problems' statement. What problems are those? Are they:

* A tendency to IR like plasma that was never really fixed either?
* Viewing angles that are somewhere between LCD & plasma that may well be inherent in the display tech as it is with LCD? If you require plasma like viewing angles, good luck to you waiting for 'future OLED improvements'. If you don't, then there's nothing wrong with current OLED viewing angles and you can scratch this 'problem' off your list.
* Is it the 'less than perfect' color that had to be isolated to one scene from one movie and was totally invisible with all other content to the attendees at the shootout?
* Oh wait, is it the fear that this display tech will 'only' last 5-10 years instead of 20 years? How long do you keep your displays?

Sorry, I don't see what these major 'prototype' issues and 'problems' are, but if it makes you feel better.....
Several owners reported trouble with their sets. I'm, like you, a lot less worried about these small picture quality issues. I'm worried that these TVs haven't yet proved they can provide 5-10 years of high-quality service. I get that most buyers are convincing themselves that's a given. We haven't really seen it. LG isn't warranty-ing it at all. And all that put together leaves one a bit more uncertainty than is ideal.

The more time that elapses, the more people that buy them, the less this remains an issue. But right now, without trying to spread FUD, I believe it's a concern.
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post #111 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 11:20 AM
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No one commented on the new product code: 77EG9700.

The old product code we had been given was the 77EC9800.

Is there any significance to this? Is this change confirmed?

The joint user manual refers to the 55EC9300 and the 77EC9800, so it the 77" portion of that manual now out of date / obsolete?

Pure speculation, but here is one possible reading:

'EA' was first generation, 'EC' is second generation, and 'EG' could be third generation.
Maybe it's just the model year designation and the 77" is now considered a 2015 model? I guess we'll know at CES when they announce numbers for other 2015 models.
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post #112 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 11:27 AM
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Maybe it's just the model year designation and the 77" is now considered a 2015 model? I guess we'll know at CES when they announce numbers for other 2015 models.

No, it appears that something more than that has changed.

The manual for the 55EC9300 (now released) was a joint manual for the 77EC9800.

Now the 77EC9800 is not being released and we are going to get the 77EG9700 in its place. The 77EG9700 apparently features Harmon Kardon 5.1 surround sound (like the LG UB9800 LED/LCD), so perhaps it is nothing more than that.

We'll just need to wait and see.
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post #113 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 11:47 AM
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I see this as very much Gen 1 because (a) LG has had a bear of time with IGZO period (b) LG will need to repattern the pixels for 4K or else the amount of fill on these sets is likely to be very unsatisfying (c) it's not like they've sold more than a few thousand TVs total, worldwide thus far (maybe five figures by now?).

Well, knowing what I know about the manufacturing and the lousy IGZO backplane yields and the pixel fill on the 1080 and the sales, I see a lot unique about it. But even if there was nothing unique about it... The existing track record on so few TVs -- with so many problems, to be honest, based on the anecdotes we've read here at AVS -- isn't great yet. I want a lot more reports that don't mention glitches, weirdly retained images, etc. In short, I want all of you to enjoy a year of your TVs and let me know how it goes. Selfish? Maybe. Pragmatic? Very. (And I'm in no rush to spend $10,000 or more on the TV I want when it will be a lot cheaper in 2 years anyway. I don't value 2 years of OLED at $4000.)

Rogo,

do you lend any credence to LG's claims to have achieved 90% yields on the IGZO backplane as early as April: http://olednet.com/eng/sub02.php?mid...uid=117&ctg1=3

"As yield rate of oxide TFT regarded as an obstacle for yield rate so far has recently come to 90%, total yield rate is shown up to 70%." (dated 3/31/14)

For me, the pricing we are seeing being offered on the 55" and 65" WOLEDs can only be explained by LGs having addressed these early yield challenges (or at least having very high confidence that these issues will be addressed as M2 comes up to speed).

As far as you comment stating that "LG will need to repattern the pixels for 4K or else the amount of fill on these sets is likely to be very unsatisfying" I absolutely agree and this is one of the major factors I will be looking for as the first 4K screen materialize. The interpixel spacing and screen door effect on the 55EC9300 is noticeably worse than on a 55" LED/LCD - if that spacing has not been reduced by at least 50% on the 4K screens, it could be a problem and a further reason to hold off for another generation or two.

I suppose this thread has morphed into the 'LG WOLED Technology Advancements Thread', which is fine by me. The sticky OLED Technology Advancements Thread is general and longer-term and there are some near-term technology advancements that LG needs to be making and that we will hopefully be getting evidence of shortly...
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post #114 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
It's not an issue for me, or anybody else for that matter, if the TV is not offered in a flat configuration. Should we just accept the fact that curved will be our only option in large size OLED's because of structural limitations?
It may be. It may be more to add a premium feel.

I know it doesnt matter once you have it.

The curve goes away. The set looks flat after a while unless turned off.

The curve is selling 3 to 1 for samsung.

Many like it. I love it.
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post #115 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 03:09 PM
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I think that the curve on the Samsung is way too curved ,Sony is obviously comparing the Samsung curve.Sony said that on screen distortion as a result of the S90 shallow curve is keep to a minimum ,Sony is been very honest admitting that it does introduce distortion to the image. Now take that Samsung !!!



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post #116 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 04:18 PM
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I think that the curve on the Samsung is way too curved ,Sony is obviously comparing the Samsung curve.Sony said that on screen distortion as a result of the S90 shallow curve is keep to a minimum ,Sony is been very honest admitting that it does introduce distortion to the image. Now take that Samsung !!!



You can't find one review with an issue with the curve. They may argue its value or call it gimmicky. But not one has ever said it caused an issue. In fact many have said it grew on them.

The sony is less than the lg too.

It's marketing. Our curve is better than your curve. Either your sets curved or not. The picture is flat or not.

Let's not start some fight about a curve now. This is rather taste. And none can be right or wrong.

I think the samsung is awesome . The lg too. Sony as well. I like curved screens. Unless there is some kind of curved shootout.
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post #117 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by darealist View Post
Who would be dumb enough to buy these OLED prototypes. Wait for few years until they fix the problems.

Would that apply to those who purchased plasmas before 2006 or so?
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post #118 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
It's not an issue for me, or anybody else for that matter, if the TV is not offered in a flat configuration. Should we just accept the fact that curved will be our only option in large size OLED's because of structural limitations?

I've never read where the reason for the curve was structural limitations. Can you cite a source? Thanks.
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post #119 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Oh, I don't know, maybe 'dumb' people like me who are looking for the best PQ available today.

This brings up the interesting, often repeated by those who don't want to jump in now, 'fix the problems' statement. What problems are those? Are they:

* A tendency to IR like plasma that was never really fixed either?
* Viewing angles that are somewhere between LCD & plasma that may well be inherent in the display tech as it is with LCD? If you require plasma like viewing angles, good luck to you waiting for 'future OLED improvements'. If you don't, then there's nothing wrong with current OLED viewing angles and you can scratch this 'problem' off your list.
* Is it the 'less than perfect' color that had to be isolated to one scene from one movie and was totally invisible with all other content to the attendees at the shootout?
* Oh wait, is it the fear that this display tech will 'only' last 5-10 years instead of 20 years? How long do you keep your displays?

Sorry, I don't see what these major 'prototype' issues and 'problems' are, but if it makes you feel better.....
Could add another: the presence of DNR that cannot be turned off. At least Samsung got that right in its plasmas recently. Will the new OLED's from LG have the capability to tur DNR off? Thanks.
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post #120 of 322 Old 08-26-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Well i can tell you my 65curved beast is the best damn set ive owned.

I almost didnt have this treasure because of listening to the members of these forums say curved is only gimmicky.

Well curved screens rock. They don't hurt the picture at all. They really look great in the house and the curve goes away after a few weeks. Its not visible unless you remind yourself.

To contribute something to this thread let me just say dont let someone tell you flat means better.

I did and it was wrong for me. Now i bought the set before i loved the curve.

But i wont buy another set if it doesnt have a curve. It has grown on me that much. Or the tv is that good.

My point is for those of you who waited for this magnificent television. Jump in. Dont worry about a curve.

It will be the only tv im jelly of.

No other tv will make me feel i have a lesser tv. But lg curved oled 4k. Damn.

Im so jelly.
Why do you like the curve? If it imparted more of a realistic view I could see it, but doesn't seem to reflect reality; further, it decreases viewing angles.
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