LG UHD/4K OLED TVs to Hit the Market This Year - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 322 Old 08-27-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I didn't say it didn't make a difference. I said better blacks will make a better viewing experience at 65" and under than 4K over 2K, with the same black performance.
Deep blacks are amazing. But my set has no issues with blacks and i have 4k. So i can agree with you. Yes contrast rocks.

But im not seeing issues and the dark knight and movies of that sort show wonderful detail in knight scenes.

The only time i dont see ink blacks is in a completely black room and no content playing. A black screen.

But the moment something begins to play that smart led kicks on and you get wonderful performance.

That being said... its just a transition. For all of us right now. The oleds will get better. Plasma will fade and lcd too eventually.
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post #182 of 322 Old 08-27-2014, 09:08 PM
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This may be of interest, perhaps a few chuckles too.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1380703/ne...ogy-impresses/
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post #183 of 322 Old 08-27-2014, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
This may be of interest, perhaps a few chuckles too.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1380703/ne...ogy-impresses/

Wow, now that's a new one: "They had Dr. Oshi Vartanian at the launch of the TVs in Toronto, he's a curve-experience, movie-experience spokesperson, he's a design expert and a neuroscientist and a psychologist - what he claims is that studies have shown that television, that anything that's round, that's curvy, compared to something that's square, makes people feel better. They've had MRI tests, they test how much blood flows into the part of the brain that makes you feel good when you see a curve object, versus the part that goes into the amygdala part of the brain, which is defense, danger"

So now it all comes into focus - Samsung has introduced curved TVs so we can truly relax and enjoy the content being viewed. Those stupid flat TVs were causing anxiety and risked triggering a 'fight or flight' response in the middle of watching House of Cards.

The more rational point that was made is that, if you are going to tile 3 TVs together like a day-trader, the curve is for you - instead of 3/8ths of an octagon, you can create a perfect continuous surface of 3/8 of a perfect circle (or a full circle if you want to invest in 8 TVs :-). At least there is a bit of honest science in that argument.

I've never been a big Samsung fan (ever since the Samsung-driven market shift to 'thin' meaning edge-lit), and this entire 'curved TV is better' initiative is greatly reinforcing that sentiment. If we as a society and a race can be led by the nose into this utter nonsense, we deserve what we get...
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post #184 of 322 Old 08-27-2014, 11:19 PM
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A pointless purchase inho till we get a true 4k standard as outlined by Joe Kane plus a disc based system to deliver content.
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post #185 of 322 Old 08-27-2014, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
A bendable TV is quite the invention. Take something that already offers no real value for the extra cost—the curve—and force people to pay even more to make it go away!
If it's the only way to get a flat 77-inch, I'll deal. Set it flat once and then toss the remote that controls the bending in a drawer where no one can ever find it.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #186 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post
I have to say that reading the forums I was biased against curved TVs. I spent a bit of time at Best Buy and was actually pleased with the curved screen at larger sizes. I found going from a curved to flat screen to be a peculiar experience. I tended to prefer the curved screen and found it more "immersive". I don't know if I'll get that same feeling every time or with prolonged watching.

Nevertheless, I still view UHD and OLED as a new entry technology that will take pretty radical year on year pricing cuts. For at least the next 3-5 years, I expect the price/performance ratio to continue to increase.

Because of that, I got the best Plasma deal I could find and won't be touching OLED or UHD for probably 5-7 years.

At that point, I feel the technology, HDMI 2.0 specs, and value will be at the point where it's worth making the plunge into that technology.


You have taken and executed my vote and opinion on the OLED/4K/Curved Screen scenario by going the Plasma route. I share in a 5-7 year timeframe before the Plasma picture quality can be replicated by the new wave after wave of "WannnaBe" breakthroughs that are only designed to shake our wallets!
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post #187 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 05:03 AM
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No TV is perfect! OLED included! My FALD LCD can go completely black,if you include that into your TV numbers,it will leave plasma out and just OLED and FALD LCD in.
It's your eyes and the environment(bright room)that should make the judgement.
I want a big,bright TV in my bright living room. I don't need to yell at the kids to turn off lights,to get the perfect picture!
Yes! If I had the money then it would be 77 OLED and next year buy the next wonder.
More power to those of you that can afford the 77 OLED,thank you for being first, bringing down the price to my level.
The LG 84" 9600 at 16,999.00 when it came out,now the new 84"UB9800 8,999.00 a year later, is a great example.
I am waiting for the Vizio 70P at 2,000.00 and hoping I can afford it.
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post #188 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 06:12 AM
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Does LG have any plans to make a 21:9 OLED TV?
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post #189 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
The hu9000 is a perfect TV and everyone should buy a hu9000 this TV doesn't have issues and can beat any display on the market on any category ,curve TVs are the most beautiful thing I ever see on a TV.


Oh!!! Forgot my TV is nothing compared to the hu9000 ,this is why I'm so jealous of anyone that own one.




Mr orange I hope that this make you very, very ,very ,happy .....now Mr Quote ,please stop Quoting me so much.




Have a great night.
Nice answer. You provided the link. I used your calculator and you don't like the results.
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post #190 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
Base on this 4k calculators if you have 20\20 the benefit at 9' is 0% on 55".


http://referencehometheater.com/2013...4k-calculator/


http://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/
So i used this calculator provided to show this is just a guess at best.

The results are used to show at what distance 4k is visible and an improvement over 1080p.

This was posted becsuse i told someone he could see his 4k 55" at 9'.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-resolution-201312153517.htm

So using this calculator apparetnly i see a massive improvement which i said i do and that is not acceptable even to the person who posted this calculator.

They instead replied to me in a way to avaoid my question.

If you use this calculator against 4k. Why deny the calculator when it shows good things for 4k?
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post #191 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 06:56 AM
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My theater room in my condo is very small with no windows and I sit 7 Ft from my old Samsung 55 8500 LED.I think this LG 65 4K Oled will knock my socks off at 7 ft.
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post #192 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 07:17 AM
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I'll be impressed when they make a curved TV that you can straighten out if you prefer it flat vs curved.
I'm intrigued by the LG sets but like everyone keeps saying content matters. If you wait more 4k content and less cost involved and kinks get worked out.

4k is amazing..... I'm thinking by 2020 it will be a good place to be.
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post #193 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
My theater room in my condo is very small with no windows and I sit 7 Ft from my old Samsung 55 8500 LED.I think this LG 65 4K Oled will knock my socks off at 7 ft.
I have no doubt it will Matt. In its 'infancy', it's already providing the best PQ available today...and this coming from someone that has a Sharp Elite and Sammy F8500.
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post #194 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 07:55 AM
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I just wanted to chime in here if I may.........my real concern with all that this new "UHD SYSTEM" is bringing to us, for example - higher resolution, greater bit depth, larger colour space, etc.- is the the fact that there is no connectivity implemented that will allow for all these features to actually be delivered to our sets. What good is a movie being authored in a DCI colour space, with HDR, in a 4:4:4, with 16bits IF our sets can't display it!!!

I want to jump into a new 70"-80"4K OLED capable of displaying a larger colour space, HDR, 4:4:4, 16bits, but I will not be buying anything until the dust has settled on what features will and will not be implemented.

BTW did you guys know that HEVC AKA(H.265) in NOT capable of 12bit/4:4:4.....it is already obsolete before it even got out of the gate.

Just my 2 cents.

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post #195 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 08:07 AM
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Paul, if you listen to Joe Kane, arguably the most knowledgeable video guy around and intimately involved in standards, he doesn't think we'll really ever see Rec2020 or HDR...certainly not within the next several years. So this kind of thing doesn't bother me, but that's me.

The current color I see on a properly calibrated Rec709 display, certainly looks very close to what I see in the theater and that can look very good from the standpoint of color. So if I never got an expanded color space, I'd be absolutely fine.
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post #196 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Paul, if you listen to Joe Kane, arguably the most knowledgeable video guy around and intimately involved in standards, he doesn't think we'll really ever see Rec2020 or HDR...certainly not within the next several years. So this kind of thing doesn't bother me, but that's me.

The current color I see on a properly calibrated Rec709 display, certainly looks very close to what I see in the theater and that can look very good from the standpoint of color. So if I never got an expanded color space, I'd be absolutely fine.
Joe also says all current standards could work and benefit at the same time. So no one is left out.
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post #197 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Paul, if you listen to Joe Kane, arguably the most knowledgeable video guy around and intimately involved in standards, he doesn't think we'll really ever see Rec2020 or HDR...certainly not within the next several years. So this kind of thing doesn't bother me, but that's me.

The current color I see on a properly calibrated Rec709 display, certainly looks very close to what I see in the theater and that can look very good from the standpoint of color. So if I never got an expanded color space, I'd be absolutely fine.
While I am aware of Joe's concerns about trying to display a color gamut that includes single wavelength colors (such as Rec 2020), I don't recall him ever saying that he didn't think HDR is likely to happen. Is this true?
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post #198 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
While I am aware of Joe's concerns about trying to display a color gamut that includes single wavelength colors (such as Rec 2020), I don't recall him ever saying that he didn't think HDR is likely to happen. Is this true?
He thought there were huge technical challenges on both the production and display end. He felt the current displays, including OLED, aren't even remotely close to being able to handle HDR.
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post #199 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Joe also says all current standards could work and benefit at the same time. So no one is left out.
I think what he is advocating is that UHD content is developed and distributed in a manner that will enable that content to work with both future and existing displays, rather than requiring separate copies of UHD-2, UHD-1, and HD media going forward. Current displays will not be capable of doing anything they can't currently do. But you still benefit in some regards because the copy of whatever movie you buy once they get this all sorted out would be compatible with everything.

To use an analogy from the video game console world, it would be like developing a way of encoding all new video games such that there are no longer separate Playstation 1, 2, 3, & 4 versions. Instead, you simply buy the new game and it will play on any of the 4 consoles, using a different tier of graphics quality and features based upon the capabilities of the console. It won't look as good on the PS 1 as it does on the 4, but it will still work.
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post #200 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
He thought there were huge technical challenges on both the production and display end. He felt the current displays, including OLED, aren't even remotely close to being able to handle HDR.
Did he specify exactly what he meant by HDR when he said that? Was he referring to displays achieving 10,000 nits? Was he referring to the content pipeline being able to deliver the bandwidth necessary for 2160p, 16-bit 4:4:4 @ 60 or even 120 fps? It depends largely on how high you set the bar. If we define the minimum requirements of HDR as some unrealistic goal we are unlikely to reach then I would agree. However, there is plenty of room to define HDR as something within reason that is still well above what the current standards specify.
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post #201 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Wow, now that's a new one: "They had Dr. Oshi Vartanian at the launch of the TVs in Toronto, he's a curve-experience, movie-experience spokesperson, he's a design expert and a neuroscientist and a psychologist - what he claims is that studies have shown that television, that anything that's round, that's curvy, compared to something that's square, makes people feel better. They've had MRI tests, they test how much blood flows into the part of the brain that makes you feel good when you see a curve object..."
That might be true with Sofia Vergara; with TV's, maybe not so much.
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post #202 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 11:07 AM
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Tom Norton, my favorite reviewer of TV displays (and the most objective one IMO) saw the benefits of a 55" UHD TV at about 7'. He didn't describe them as earth-shattering, but he did see the difference. And that's only a 55" screen.
And what about people who aren't professional reviewers? If you tested 1,000 avid TV watchers by putting each of them 7' in front of 2 otherwise identical 55" sets except that one was 1080p and the other was 4K, how many do you suppose would report seeing any difference or correctly identify which one was 4K if they said they did?

I have a 4K monitor at home (28" Samsung UD590) and I tried a similar experiment with my wife. Downloaded a bunch of 4K clips for her to watch in 4K vs. the same clips downloaded and played in 1080p. In most cases she had to watch the same clips multiple times to correctly identify which one was 4K (which she identified by color btw, not by additional detail). And that was sitting right in front of the monitor.
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post #203 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 11:39 AM
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And what about people who aren't professional reviewers? If you tested 1,000 avid TV watchers by putting each of them 7' in front of 2 otherwise identical 55" sets except that one was 1080p and the other was 4K, how many do you suppose would report seeing any difference or correctly identify which one was 4K if they said they did?

I have a 4K monitor at home (28" Samsung UD590) and I tried a similar experiment with my wife. Downloaded a bunch of 4K clips for her to watch in 4K vs. the same clips downloaded and played in 1080p. In most cases she had to watch the same clips multiple times to correctly identify which one was 4K (which she identified by color btw, not by additional detail). And that was sitting right in front of the monitor.
The experiment you conducted with your wife would not be a comparison of a 4K display to a 1080p display unless you also had a 1080p monitor next to your 4K monitor, with the 4K monitor playing the 4K content and the 1080p monitor playing the 1080p content. Your 4K monitor is required to upscale the 1080p clips to 4K in order to display them. So, what you were comparing was the differences between "native" 4K and 1080p content that has been upscaled to 4K, all of which was displayed on the same 4K monitor. Assuming that the content was originally shot with a 4K+ camera, and the footage then used to create both a 4K and 1080p version, there are still a number of variables that could either increase or decrease the disparity between the two versions, including sensor capabilities, compression format used for transfer of the raw footage to the video editing software, video editing capabilities, final compression format, and compression level of the files you downloaded. In order to know if the final comparison is valid or not, you would have to know if the relative quality level of the two versions was maintained from lens to display. If, at any step between lens and display, one version suffered a larger drop in quality than the other then the comparison becomes invalid, unless you can show that the quality drop was unavoidable and would apply to the creation of all 4K/1080p content.
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post #204 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 12:14 PM
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Mrorange303 I can't believe that you still chasing me ,man that's way too much love for a TV.




I already told that my TV is nothing compared to your ,that's enough..






Move on!!!!
I did. I posted how you avoided the question. So im good. We done.

And i do love my tv but its about your link and info you want to provide to others.

I am also looking to pick up this 77" oled.
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post #205 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 12:33 PM
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post #206 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
The experiment you conducted with your wife would not be a comparison of a 4K display to a 1080p display unless you also had a 1080p monitor next to your 4K monitor, with the 4K monitor playing the 4K content and the 1080p monitor playing the 1080p content. Your 4K monitor is required to upscale the 1080p clips to 4K in order to display them. So, what you were comparing was the differences between "native" 4K and 1080p content that has been upscaled to 4K, all of which was displayed on the same 4K monitor....
Yes I understand that the 1080p content was being upscaled by the monitor to 4K so it's not the same comparison. Short of a setup though with otherwise identical 1080p and 4k monitors running side by side (and does that even exist btw where the 4K version is of the same model family instead of an entirely different line?), how else would you suggest that one go about setting up any kind of blind test between 4k and 1080p in their own home? I saw plenty of comment on the Value Electronics 2014 Shootout thread that it wasn't fair to compare UHD TVs without displaying any native 4K content there. So if anything I thought I was stacking the deck in favor of 4k by showing my wife only those native 4k clips. (This was when I was still trying talk myself into keeping the monitor and was hoping she'd be impressed enough to validate that opinion. It will be going back in the next couple weeks before the return window expires).

I'm not questioning that some people definitely can see a difference with 4K depending on the screen size and viewing distance. But I think there's a lot of placebo effect going on too. When someone knows they are looking at a 4k display they will tell themselves that it looks better whether they really can see a difference or not (epecially if they just laid out a few extra grand vs. what a good 1080p set would cost for the UHD TV they're watching). When I hear people saying things like they can see a difference with 4K watching on a 55" set at 9' I suspect it's more of the latter going on.

Has anyone conducted the kind of blind tests I'm talking about of 1080p vs. 4k? If so I'd be curious to see the results.
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post #207 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
Yes I understand that the 1080p content was being upscaled by the monitor to 4K so it's not the same comparison. Short of a setup though with otherwise identical 1080p and 4k monitors running side by side (and does that even exist btw where the 4K version is of the same model family instead of an entirely different line?), how else would you suggest that one go about setting up any kind of blind test between 4k and 1080p in their own home? I saw plenty of comment on the Value Electronics 2014 Shootout thread that it wasn't fair to compare UHD TVs without displaying any native 4K content there. So if anything I thought I was stacking the deck in favor of 4k by showing my wife only those native 4k clips. (This was when I was still trying talk myself into keeping the monitor and was hoping she'd be impressed enough to validate that opinion. It will be going back in the next couple weeks before the return window expires).

I'm not questioning that some people definitely can see a difference with 4K depending on the screen size and viewing distance. But I think there's a lot of placebo effect going on too. When someone knows they are looking at a 4k display they will tell themselves that it looks better whether they really can see a difference or not (epecially if they just laid out a few extra grand vs. what a good 1080p set would cost for the UHD TV they're watching). When I hear people saying things like they can see a difference with 4K watching on a 55" set at 9' I suspect it's more of the latter going on.

Has anyone conducted the kind of blind tests I'm talking about of 1080p vs. 4k? If so I'd be curious to see the results.
Actually this is a major difference. 4k sets have dedicated upscale chips and algorithms to handle all 1080p content.

Not all companys have good solutions.

Samsung and Sony lead the pack. Both have chips that will display upscaled content above even madvr.

Not the oppo. Nothing upscales like the internal chip of those sets thats out right now.

This may have some impact on your comparison.
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post #208 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
And what about people who aren't professional reviewers? If you tested 1,000 avid TV watchers by putting each of them 7' in front of 2 otherwise identical 55" sets except that one was 1080p and the other was 4K, how many do you suppose would report seeing any difference or correctly identify which one was 4K if they said they did?

I have a 4K monitor at home (28" Samsung UD590) and I tried a similar experiment with my wife. Downloaded a bunch of 4K clips for her to watch in 4K vs. the same clips downloaded and played in 1080p. In most cases she had to watch the same clips multiple times to correctly identify which one was 4K (which she identified by color btw, not by additional detail). And that was sitting right in front of the monitor.
The closest experiment to what you're asking for was conducted in the UK. There, 49 out of 50 shoppers in a mall correctly identified the UHD TV.
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post #209 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Did he specify exactly what he meant by HDR when he said that? Was he referring to displays achieving 10,000 nits? Was he referring to the content pipeline being able to deliver the bandwidth necessary for 2160p, 16-bit 4:4:4 @ 60 or even 120 fps? It depends largely on how high you set the bar. If we define the minimum requirements of HDR as some unrealistic goal we are unlikely to reach then I would agree. However, there is plenty of room to define HDR as something within reason that is still well above what the current standards specify.
I don't recall with 100% certainty, but I think Joe realized setting the bar so high was an unattainable goal. Joe Kane understands this better than anyone.
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post #210 of 322 Old 08-28-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Actually this is a major difference. 4k sets have dedicated upscale chips and algorithms to handle all 1080p content.

Not all companys have good solutions.

Samsung and Sony lead the pack. Both have chips that will display upscaled content above even madvr.

Not the oppo. Nothing upscales like the internal chip of those sets thats out right now.

This may have some impact on your comparison.
things like resizer aren't that easy. proper comparison aren't made yet.
they depend a lot on content. and personal taste plays a rule to. some people hate ringing other aliasing or to low or to high sharpness other hate the possibility of interpolation artifact with interpolation resizer. and a resizer is still just a resizer only real content can show the real potential of the resolution.

this is like the 1080p screen and there SD "super" resizer and people claimed this looks like 1080 or even it is so good i don't need 1080p source. just look at these screen to day nothing has changed but no one claim something like this anymore.
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