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post #1 of 26 Old 10-20-2014, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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New TV Time…4K or Not?

I am buying a new TV in the next week or so. I feel caught in the middle of need vs. want with the whole 4K debate. I have TiVo and cable. I don't use Nexflix or any of the other streaming services. I do like to be prepared for what's next in technology since I don't plan on buying another TV for a while. I work for my cable company, so I get all the channels for free, so no need for the extra content. However, I love watching TV. I rarely put a movie in my Blu-ray player anymore and don't do any gaming. I mostly watch what's on or watch something I recorded. I am pretty sure I want 4K, but do I buy a Vizio for $1k less, or get a Samsung which is currently what I have in my household. I have a 50" DLP, 40 & 32" LCD. I am only upgrading the 50" and am looking at 65". I will be mounting the new TV on the wall. Best Buy was really pushing Samsung vs. Vizio. Not sure what that was about. They said Vizio uses refurbished LG parts? I know Samsung is a superior product, but is it worth the extra $1,000? Yes, I can afford it….just want to know if it's hype or really worth the extra money.

So…

Samsung or Vizio….or something else?
4K or 1080
120Hz or 240Hz

Thanks

I included a pic of the TV I am selling. I have a buyer….
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post #2 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Am I in the wrong thread? The first time I posted, I was, so perhaps I am again
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post #3 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 05:59 AM
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I would get a 4K TV. It's the future. You may not need the 4K capability for a couple of years, but you'll be glad you have a TV to take advantage of it when it becomes available.


Having said that, it may be wise to wait a year or so until the dust settles.


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post #4 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 07:01 AM
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I would not get a 4K TV until Blu-Ray 4K HDCP standards are sorted out - chances are the TV you buy may not be compatible.

Personally I'd prefer an excellent 1080p plasma or OLED over a mediocre 4K LCD... but maybe that's just me.

Don't even bother with 120Hz/240Hz unless you watch a lot of sports. For other content it tends to make the picture look worse. Mainly because it can't keep up with very fast motion and so seems to switch on and off. Make sure there's an option to turn it off, too..
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post #5 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I would get a 4K TV. It's the future. You may not need the 4K capability for a couple of years, but you'll be glad you have a TV to take advantage of it when it becomes available.


Having said that, it may be wise to wait a year or so until the dust settles.


Don't believe anything a Best Buy associate tells you. The requirements for employment don't include knowledge about the products sold.
I am getting the TV out of necessity. My mom is moving in and I need to make room. The DLP takes up a lot of much needed space. So whatever I get, I want it to last or be able to handle what's coming.

No, I don't believe BB which is why I'm here looking for advice
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post #6 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Just like with 3D, there isn't much content out there aside from movies you can buy. I am wondering if a similar thing will happen with 4K. Also, since it is such a bandwith hog, will the cable companies even offer 4K content? So since I don't use Netflix, game or watch DVD's...Do I really need it

Won't upscaling make normal pics (HD or SD) look worse when trying to upscale?

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post #7 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trlyka View Post
I am getting the TV out of necessity. My mom is moving in and I need to make room. The DLP takes up a lot of much needed space. So whatever I get, I want it to last or be able to handle what's coming.

No, I don't believe BB which is why I'm here looking for advice

I suggest getting a 4K TV that supports HDCP 2.2. HDCP 2.2 will likely be required for viewing native 4K content.
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post #8 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trlyka View Post
Won't upscaling make normal pics (HD or SD) look worse when trying to upscale?
This purely depends on the quality of the upscaler.
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post #9 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trlyka View Post
Just like with 3D, there isn't much content out there aside from movies you can buy. I am wondering if a similar thing will happen with 4K. Also, since it is such a bandwith hog, will the cable companies even offer 4K content? So since I don't use Netflix, game or watch DVD's...Do I really need it

Won't upscaling make normal pics (HD or SD) look worse when trying to upscale?

Don't hold your breath for cable companies to offer 4K. That won't happen anytime soon. Bluray 4K is coming by next years end (you will need a new player) but without knowing your budget, since you mainly watch cable anyways you can either get a 65" Vizio p series 4K and feel you will be kinda of future proofed or get a Samsung 64" F8500 plasma, excellent well rated tv or an 55" LG OLED EC9300 which has pretty much the best picture quality for a 1080p set. All have very good reviews. Sony 65" XBRX850b or Samsung UN65hu8550 are good sets as well, unfortunately almost all tv' s with good picture quality have useless smart features. Good luck.

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post #10 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Don't hold your breath for companies to offer 4K. That won't happen anytime soon. Bluray 4K is coming by next years end (you will need a new player) but without knowing your budget, since you mainly watch cable anyways you can either get a 65" Vizio p series 4K and feel you will be kinda of future proofed or get a Samsung 64" F8500 plasma, excellent well rated tv or an 55" LG OLED EC9300 which has pretty much the best picture quality for a 1080p set. All have very good reviews. Sony 65" XBRX850b or Samsung UN65hu8550 are good sets as well, unfortunately almost all tv' s with good picture quality have useless smart features. Good luck.
Even though 4K content isn't out there, will a 4K TV have the ability to turn 1080 content into 4K? Or is it mostly just smoke n mirrors with the upscaling? I have a TiVo Premier and cable cards……so I guess my main question is if a 4K TV will benefit me if I don't watch Netfix or any other online streaming content or buy a 4K player and watch movies on it when they do come out.

I really want to like the Vizio. BB made me feel like I was a moron for even considering it. Like ewww….you want that?…Ok, maybe not like that, but they had me forgetting about it in a heartbeat as they drew me into the Magnolia section. But they aren't there to hold my hand. They are there to sell what they are told to sell. Even if they aren't commission paid, they are still told what products to push.

I think they had an open box 64" plasma. I can't remember if it was Samsung or not. Isn't plasma heavy?
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post #11 of 26 Old 10-21-2014, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trlyka View Post
Even though 4K content isn't out there, will a 4K TV have the ability to turn 1080 content into 4K? Or is it mostly just smoke n mirrors with the upscaling? I have a TiVo Premier and cable cards……so I guess my main question is if a 4K TV will benefit me if I don't watch Netfix or any other online streaming content or buy a 4K player and watch movies on it when they do come out.

I really want to like the Vizio. BB made me feel like I was a moron for even considering it. Like ewww….you want that?…Ok, maybe not like that, but they had me forgetting about it in a heartbeat as they drew me into the Magnolia section. But they aren't there to hold my hand. They are there to sell what they are told to sell. Even if they aren't commission paid, they are still told what products to push.

I think they had an open box 64" plasma. I can't remember if it was Samsung or not. Isn't plasma heavy?

Plasma has the best picture quality of any tv aside from OLED. Unfortunately they are ceasing production. Heavy? All new tv's are not heavy as they use to be, weight has no factor at all. Do not buy a 4K set thinking it will turn all your lower resolution to 4K how they market it. Yes the 4K tv upscale to their native resolution but it's not night and day difference. SD will still look like garbage.

In other words a 4K set will not benefit you in any way if you don't plan on streaming netflix or buying a new player next year.

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post #12 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Plasma has the best picture quality of any tv aside from OLED. Unfortunately they are ceasing production. Heavy? All new tv's are not heavy as they use to be, weight has no factor at all. Do not buy a 4K set thinking it will turn all your lower resolution to 4K how they market it. Yes the 4K tv upscale to their native resolution but it's not night and day difference. SD will still look like garbage.

In other words a 4K set will not benefit you in any way if you don't plan on streaming netflix or buying a new player next year.
Ok, so when you walk into BB and they have a Pacific Rim playing on the 75" curved Samsung, it looked PHENOMENAL…..All display gimmicks aside….That's not 4K? That's just Blu-ray and 1080P at 120/240Hz?
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post #13 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Don't hold your breath for cable companies to offer 4K. That won't happen anytime soon.

That's a bold assumption. Once one company offers some channels in 4K, they'll all be forced to offer it. The marketing departments are probably drooling over the ability to advertise 4K. Everyone will think they're more technologically advanced. Offering new boxes that support HEVC is a dream come true. Not only can they be used for 4K, they can also be used to offer a lot more 1080p channels. I believe I read somewhere that the satellite companies current satellites can handle HEVC no problem. It's just a matter of getting new boxes out.


http://www.satellitetoday.com/region...sts-this-year/

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post #14 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 05:21 AM
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Many of the early 4k tvs were 24 or 30hz only and many current 4k tvs have limited colour information.

Given that there are little or no 4k blu rays depending on where you are and that current consoles and pcs have no where near the horsepower to game at 4k ( native ) unless you have tri-sli gtx980s...

It just isn't worth it. By the time there are 4k sources and pc hardware is better if you game on it 4k tvs will at the very least be much cheaper and probably have better quality panels etc.
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post #15 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 05:35 AM
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The only 4k TV I would even consider right now is the Panny AX900.
"IMO" Any others are not ready for prime time. "IMO"

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #16 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I really appreciate all the feedback

I'm sure even a new non 4K LED TV will still look fantastic compared to my DLP or even my 10 yr old LCD in the bedroom. Considering the premium you pay for 4K, and like some say, the technology is so new and content is limited, I feel saving the money and simply upgrading to LED and the size, should suffice. My mom is moving in, so I have a feeling whatever TV I get will be on ALL the time. She is a TV watcher and likes the 'noise' even if she isn't watching. I am the same way, but I am also out of the house 10 hours a day. So if I spend less now, and the TV craps out in 5 years, I won't feel so bad......Plus I can upgrade if I want down the road. What if 4K goes down the same road as 3D ....A lot of hype, but little delivery....

**My DLP has a Matte screen. I need a TV with the least amount of glare or glare resistent technology.

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post #17 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 07:33 AM
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Here's an option.

I would get something like a 60" Vizio M series 1080P TV for now. It has great reviews and is very inexpensive. Let that hold you over for a year or two while the dust settles on 4K and standards become established. In two years, prices should drop significantly while the quality goes up. You will then likely be able to buy a 70"-84" 4K set for the same price that you would be paying now for a 65". Or buy the same 65" 4K set for at least $1000 less than you would pay now for it. That savings would cover the cost of the Vizio that would hold you over.

And you are right. The move to 4K could be so slow that there could still be little to no content in even two years. The move from SD to HD was not market driven but more because of the government mandate that networks had to be off analogue programing by a certain date. As others have mentioned, there are technical roadblocks hampering the move to 4K from streaming and even physical disk. The industry has been pushing 3D for more than five years now yet content is still very sparse.

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Here's an option.

I would get something like a 60" Vizio M series 1080P TV for now. It has great reviews and is very inexpensive. Let that hold you over for a year or two while the dust settles on 4K and standards become established. In two years, prices should drop significantly while the quality goes up. You will then likely be able to buy a 70"-84" 4K set for the same price that you would be paying now for a 65". Or buy the same 65" 4K set for at least $1000 less than you would pay now for it. That savings would cover the cost of the Vizio that would hold you over.

And you are right. The move to 4K could be so slow that there could still be little to no content in even two years. The move from SD to HD was not market driven but more because of the government mandate that networks had to be off analogue programing by a certain date. As others have mentioned, there are technical roadblocks hampering the move to 4K from streaming and even physical disk. The industry has been pushing 3D for more than five years now yet content is still very sparse.
I will probably still go with a 65" Samsung (7150). I plan on selling it when I upgrade, if I upgrade, so I'm hoping they will have better resale value...
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post #19 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 07:51 AM
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Ok, so when you walk into BB and they have a Pacific Rim playing on the 75" curved Samsung, it looked PHENOMENAL…..All display gimmicks aside….That's not 4K? That's just Blu-ray and 1080P at 120/240Hz?
Never saw this but wish I had.Hope someone who did see this at BB answers you.

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post #20 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 08:06 AM
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I will probably still go with a 65" Samsung (7150). I plan on selling it when I upgrade, if I upgrade, so I'm hoping they will have better resale value...
I would be careful about depending on resale value. The TV tech world moves fast and in a couple of years there will be a minimal market for a 2 year old set. Two years ago I paid $6700 for a 70" Sharp Elite. And that was 27% off sticker price. Vizio will be releasing their R series 4K FALD set of almost the same size and will likely be half the cost of what I paid. When they do, I'd be lucky to get $1000 for mine.
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Ok, so when you walk into BB and they have a Pacific Rim playing on the 75" curved Samsung, it looked PHENOMENAL…..All display gimmicks aside….That's not 4K? That's just Blu-ray and 1080P at 120/240Hz?

Depending if the curve tv was 4K (I'm sure it was) That's just Bluray 1080p up scaled to 4K. If you watch the same content on the 1080p model, there is little difference. I watched for 20 minutes of content at bestbuy also. Two tv's, a 1080p and a 4K. Both playing the same 1080p content= very little difference if any. Real 4K content, that looks phenomenal.


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That's a bold assumption. Once one company offers some channels in 4K, they'll all be forced to offer it. The marketing departments are probably drooling over the ability to advertise 4K. Everyone will think they're more technologically advanced. Offering new boxes that support HEVC is a dream come true. Not only can they be used for 4K, they can also be used to offer a lot more 1080p channels. I believe I read somewhere that the satellite companies current satellites can handle HEVC no problem. It's just a matter of getting new boxes out.


http://www.satellitetoday.com/region...sts-this-year/

I never said they wouldn't, I said anytime soon. I know in Asia they are already broadcasting 4K. They have a couple of channels I believe. Here in North America it will take a few years before we see a 4K channel if any. Streaming is different , I'm talking about cable/satellite. Look how long 1080p is been around and only currently PPV movies are available in that format. No 1080p channels. Direct tv in in works of a new satellite I heard but I will be happily surprised if it becomes reality in 2 years. Highly doubtful.



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I will probably still go with a 65" Samsung (7150). I plan on selling it when I upgrade, if I upgrade, so I'm hoping they will have better resale value...
No better resale value, it's just an LCD, nothing special other than the size.

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Depending if the curve tv was 4K (I'm sure it was) That's just Bluray 1080p up scaled to 4K. If you watch the same content on the 1080p model, there is little difference. I watched for 20 minutes of content at bestbuy also. Two tv's, a 1080p and a 4K. Both playing the same 1080p content= very little difference if any.
What were the two brands & models?

Once in a while someone will insist on this same thing and I have to wonder if they were really watching what they think they were. The resolution specific difference was pronounced on the Sony 4K's I've seen; the upscales really were that good.

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post #23 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I ended up getting the Samsung UN65H7150. I went to BB because I was able to do the 24 mo 0% financing, but I will be paying it off in a few months. I'm floating MY money lol

Anyway, I had been gravitating to this TV all along. This was my first choice before this whole 4K debate, so I have no regrets. They are installing it on Saturday. I got the Sanus VLF525 motion mount. It was free with the install. I also got the 5 year assurance which I NEVER do, but I figured since they cover it in home, then it may be worth it for this particular TV.

I want to thank everyone for their input. I really appreciate it…..and best of luck to those of you trying to make that ever so life changing decision on what TV to buy!

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post #24 of 26 Old 10-22-2014, 07:31 PM
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What were the two brands & models?

Once in a while someone will insist on this same thing and I have to wonder if they were really watching what they think they were. The resolution specific difference was pronounced on the Sony 4K's I've seen; the upscales really were that good.
They were samsung. The one on top was the UN55HU6950 the lower one was the UN55H7150. They were showing animals on trees, slow movement visuals. The 4K showed a little sharper image , you really had to pay attention to notice. Standing 10 feet away they seemed the same. But with the true 4K content another samsung beside (UN55Hu8550) it was obvious, the 4K look phenomenal.

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I ended up getting the Samsung UN65H7150. I went to BB because I was able to do the 24 mo 0% financing, but I will be paying it off in a few months. I'm floating MY money lol

Anyway, I had been gravitating to this TV all along. This was my first choice before this whole 4K debate, so I have no regrets. They are installing it on Saturday. I got the Sanus VLF525 motion mount. It was free with the install. I also got the 5 year assurance which I NEVER do, but I figured since they cover it in home, then it may be worth it for this particular TV.

I want to thank everyone for their input. I really appreciate it…..and best of luck to those of you trying to make that ever so life changing decision on what TV to buy!


Enjoy!!!

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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
They were samsung. The one on top was the UN55HU6950 the lower one was the UN55H7150. They were showing animals on trees, slow movement visuals. The 4K showed a little sharper image , you really had to pay attention to notice.
Now this actually makes more sense. Don't make an indictment on 2K->4K upscaling as a whole based upon Samsung's attempt at it. I saw an upscale of the the movie Oblivion (fed by 2K blu-ray), and saw results similar to what you saw.

Evaluate the Sony's (and make sure that the grunts at BB or wherever haven't accidentally softened the picture). The one I spent the most time with was the 65X900A; take a look at those results and report back...you just might sing a different tune.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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Originally Posted by trlyka View Post
So since I don't use Netflix, game or watch DVD's...Do I really need it

In a word...No. If that is your benchmark. You won't even need it in the future when its benefits become more obvious. Like with AR, VR and the next wave of 3D (1080p60 per eye). Get a top quality LED LCD or OLED panel in your size and price range and call it a day. LG/Vizio/Samsung/Sony? Pick'em. I personally prefer FALD panels (Full Array Local Dimming). Because of their better rendering of "Black" level and contrast ratio. Even though I wouldn't omit an excellent edge lit panel if it looked acceptable to me.
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