2015 Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout Results - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
After seeing the uniformity issue that the LG had, I find the results beyond bizarre...especially from professionals.

You'd have to totally ignore such a major issue to rank the LG first...and this coming from one of their biggest 'fanboys' prior to becoming so aware of the issue.

In another thread I said I would have ranked the LG first if it had not had that issue, but geez Louise, how can you ignore it.

And the Samsung had better off-axis than the Sony? I must have been at a different shootout.
Here we are, in complete agreement.

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post #32 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:47 AM
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^ Must be a full moon.
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post #33 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:48 AM
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Is that LG- OLED definitely a 65"?

I understand its further away but looking at the 65" panasonic on the left next to the 940c and the Js9500 the OLED down at the end looks disproportionately smaller. Like.. a 55"

It just doesn't look like a 65" compared to how much smaller it is to the sets vs the panasonic
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post #34 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:49 AM
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why are all the screen sizes different? doesnt seem like a test that tells me anything to be honest.

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post #35 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:50 AM
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There was a shootout? Wow i didn't even realise. I guess i lost interest with fewer choices in the market.

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post #36 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
why are all the screen sizes different? doesnt seem like a test that tells me anything to be honest.
The Sony only comes in one size, 75". The Panasonic maxes out at 65".

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post #37 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
Average scores without off-axis category:

1) Samsung - 8.54
2) Sony - 8.4
3) LG - 8.14
4) Panasonic - 7.134

As you can see, the off-axis viewing angle performance is what carries the OLED to the top. With that aside, it's rather handily bested by both the Samsung and Sony sets.
This is an interesting point, basically if you have a very narrow seating area and don't plan on doing critical viewing from the side (who would with a curved display?) the LG isn't the winner in straight on viewing.
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post #38 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
After seeing the uniformity issue that the LG had, I find the results beyond bizarre...especially from professionals.

You'd have to totally ignore such a major issue to rank the LG first...and this coming from one of their biggest 'fanboys' prior to becoming so aware of the issue.

In another thread I said I would have ranked the LG first if it had not had that issue, but geez Louise, how can you ignore it.

And the Samsung had better off-axis than the Sony? I must have been at a different shootout.
Do we know who the experts were?
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post #39 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
Average scores without off-axis category:

1) Samsung - 8.54
2) Sony - 8.4
3) LG - 8.14
4) Panasonic - 7.134

As you can see, the off-axis viewing angle performance is what carries the OLED to the top. With that aside, it's rather handily bested by both the Samsung and Sony sets.
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Do we know who the experts were?
I was one. Any writer/reviewer who attended a session and voted.

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post #40 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
Average scores without off-axis category:

1) Samsung - 8.54
2) Sony - 8.4
3) LG - 8.14
4) Panasonic - 7.134

As you can see, the off-axis viewing angle performance is what carries the OLED to the top. With that aside, it's rather handily bested by both the Samsung and Sony sets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
This is an interesting point, basically if you have a very narrow seating area and don't plan on doing critical viewing from the side (who would with a curved display?) the LG isn't the winner in straight on viewing.
That's definitely the impression I got at the shootout. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out when the results of the unofficial "Which TV do you think is best?"
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post #41 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:00 AM
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For the rest of us, I'd like to see a similar, new shoot out for, say, 65 inch UHDTV's at price points like:
$2000
$2500
$3000
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post #42 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
^ Must be a full moon.

Amen brother!
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post #43 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:02 AM
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what scenes/movies did you watch for reviews? what was the testing material? what was the biggest shock/surprise?

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post #44 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVuc View Post
Scott: Do you have the results for people's response to the question of which TV was their over-all favorite?
This would be good to know. I'm curious to know whether those answers align with the scoring totals based on the various categories.

It's interesting that categories like Black Performance, Perceived Contrast, and Off-Axis Performance were won with scores above 9, while other categories like Color Accuracy, Screen Uniformity, and Motion Resolution were won by scores that were a full point lower. Obviously, voters feel that we're much closer to achieving perfect black performance than we are to achieving perfect color accuracy or motion resolution with the display technologies that were in the event.

I understand that the OLED can get truly black and that black areas stay black even when they are adjacent to a brightly lit area. But, I was under the impression that this particular OLED had trouble with shadow detail due to a tendency to crush blacks, which is also an aspect of black performance.

With regards to motion resolution, I suspect the lower scores may be a result of viewers having seen better motion resolution in other display technologies (e.g. plasma and CRT). It will be interesting to see if motion performance of the display technologies being produced currently are able to match Plasma and CRT over the course of the next few years. And, even if there is no improvement, will scores in evaluations like these go up over time as fewer and fewer viewers will remember what plasma and CRT looked like?

With regards to color accuracy, I'm curious how many voters were able to basically ignore the Life of Pi demo and make their evaluation based purely on the colors shown in the SMPTE color bar pattern and the Art of Flight demo. It's already been pointed out that Life of Pi uses a good bit of "unnatural" coloring, so it seems odd to use it for an evaluation of color accuracy with no reference to what is accurate. But, even with the other material, I'm not sure anybody who isn't a trained calibrator could tell you how far off from accurate each display was. Interestingly, the professionals thought the displays were more color accurate than the audience did.
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post #45 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:10 AM
 
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It's getting tougher today to buy a TV. ...The three best ones, Sony, Samsung and LG are to be evaluated on a personal level for the ultimate one that is going to end up in our homes.
Each one of us is going to decide which attributes count the most to our own eyes in our day-to-night viewing habits, and of course to our bank accounts.

Yesterday, it was easy; plasmas from both Samsung and Panasonic were the two top contenders in the 2K department.
Going forward we'll have to evaluate our TVs again with UHD content from Blu-rays, ...and! ...3D too has to be evaluated if we truly are into the very best viewing experience @ home.
Is 3D evaluation lacking because money speaks? ...If it is then we are NOT serious in our search @ the service of the art.

Anyway, this is only four TVs that have been evaluated, ...there are many more to come...it is always an unfinished painting when it comes to moving images on our canvas.

I would like to thank all the people who participated in that shootout; they provided a great help to all of us, videophiles.

♦ The best is yet to come...
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post #46 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I was one. Any writer/reviewer who attended a session and voted.
Who did the calibrations? Was D-Nice there or any of the others from last year? I remember there were 3 calibrators / experts last year that ran most of the shootout. Forgive me if you were one of them last year, I am bad at remembering all the guys names.
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post #47 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
Thanks, Scott. I now look forward to this shootout every year.
One question; I am surprised there was not a review category for the upscale properties of these UHD sets. Any reason for not including this category?
I could not agree more. With the dramatic lack of 4k material out there I would think the ability to upscale would be of great interest to any perspective buyer. That would be one trickle down advantage I would associate any brand.
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post #48 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:17 AM
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Also, did you guys measure input lag?
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post #49 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:18 AM
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Well, thanks for all the hard work guys!
That is really a "Bummer" about the Panasonic, as they make a 60" set, the Cx800, which at least at this point in time, I can not ascertain whether it is edge lit or Fald, but even if Fald, I don't like the number of zones.


So this puts Sony back in the running, but only edge lit as I need a TV 60"s or less, (preferably 60").


One hopes that some of the Sony attributes filter down to the new Sony 900C series alto again no 60", grrrrrrr!!!!!!!


I still gotta see them quantum dots thou, as at least "to me", leds painted with phosphor is pretty "Old School", and from all I hear there are going to be a lot more QD sets, maybe even direct emission, by 2020?????, but I'm not sure if the 9 year old Sharp, Or even Me, for that matter will be around that long!!!!


Fortunately the old Sharp has not done any more hiccups, and I "may be" able to stick with my original plan to wait until Autumn or maybe even after CES2016.


Maybe by then there will be a 60" TV I really like and there will be more info in on the new 60" Sharp, the 60" Panny or who knows "what else"?


Again thanks for all the hard work.


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post #50 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:18 AM
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It's tempting to call BS on the whole thing. I don't say this as a Sony owner. I just bought it yesterday and could have picked up any one of the contestants. My point being is that I look at the variation of the audience vs. experts on color accuracy and it immediately makes me discount things. The audience placed the LG in first and the Panny in last yet the experts placed the Sammy in first and the LG in last with the Sony. While one could argue that both the audience and experts arrived to the same ranking how they both got there is very different.

All I can say is that if you own any one of these sets and like it then just enjoy it and put this noise behind you. If you are in the market for a new TV then any one of the sets tested will be outstanding. I thank Value Electronics for spending the time and money on the shootout as it is always fun to see the results, but take them with a grain of salt...
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post #51 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2JDMBFAN View Post
Who did the calibrations? Was D-Nice there or any of the others from last year? I remember there were 3 calibrators / experts last year that ran most of the shootout. Forgive me if you were one of them last year, I am bad at remembering all the guys names.

I don't think D-Nice was there at all. I never saw him yesterday. Kevin Miller who once was the lead calibrator was there yesterday, asked several questions during the last session but did not work on the sets. It is my understanding that all calibrations were performed by David. Maybe Scott helped a little?

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post #52 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2JDMBFAN View Post
Who did the calibrations? Was D-Nice there or any of the others from last year? I remember there were 3 calibrators / experts last year that ran most of the shootout. Forgive me if you were one of them last year, I am bad at remembering all the guys names.
No, I am not a part of the shootout, aside from voting on it. The three calibrators who ran it last year were David Mackenzie, Dewayne Davis, and Kevin Miller. David performed the calibrations this year.

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post #53 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The Sony only comes in one size, 75". The Panasonic maxes out at 65".
Only comes in one size for the FALD tech. Other sizes for non-FALD.
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post #54 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:21 AM
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Do we know who the experts were?
Beats me. Beyond Scott, Mark & David, I don't know who was there.
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post #55 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I don't think D-Nice was there at all. I never saw him yesterday. Kevin Miller who once was the lead calibrator was there yesterday, asked several questions during the last session but did not work on the sets. It is my understanding that all calibrations were performed by David. Maybe Scott helped a little?
I always respect D-Nice's opinion in these, because we seem to have the same sort of tastes in what we are looking for in these sets. It's a shame he wasn't able to attend or chose not to.

I do remember watching last year, he seemed to be biting his tongue quite a bit during some of the statements / sales pitches Robert was making.

Maybe he can chime in on his thoughts on how these sets compare.
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post #56 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
It's tempting to call BS on the whole thing. I don't say this as a Sony owner. I just bought it yesterday and could have picked up any one of the contestants. My point being is that I look at the variation of the audience vs. experts on color accuracy and it immediately makes me discount things. The audience placed the LG in first and the Panny in last yet the experts placed the Sammy in first and the LG in last with the Sony. While one could argue that both the audience and experts arrived to the same ranking how they both got there is very different.

All I can say is that if you own any one of these sets and like it then just enjoy it and put this noise behind you. If you are in the market for a new TV then any one of the sets tested will be outstanding. I thank Value Electronics for spending the time and money on the shootout as it is always fun to see the results, but take them with a grain of salt...
I vote this as the best post of any of the shootout threads!
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post #57 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:32 AM
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Scott, any chance we can see the calibration reports?
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post #58 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:46 AM
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Dear TVuc and Chise thank you both for quoting Scott's entire post including pictures in order to add your ONE SENTENCE comments, I didn't read it the first time and you gave me a second and third chance.
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post #59 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:48 AM
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Seems like you can't go wrong with Samsung or Sony this year. LG seems to be a crapshoot based on panel quality. If you get lucky, it's likely the best but you might also be in RMA hell trying to get a good set.

Based on the price delta, I'd probably take the Sony today.
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post #60 of 1566 Old 06-26-2015, 09:48 AM
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I know its all about PQ - but I think a "value" category would even out the results. Is the Samsung 3x better then the Panny? - because its 3x the cost..
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