Burn-in: How concerned should you be? Read this first. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 06-12-2003, 11:14 PM
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This is what I did with my Panny -

Set the Wake Up Timer to 3:00 AM and the shutdown to 3:07 AM.

Set the Screensaver Start to 3:01 AM and the screensaver stop to 3:06AM

So I have the white scrolling bar , wiping the screen "clean" every night for 5 minutes.

Is this alright or do I have to screen save/clean immediately following the SD/2:35:1 material?

VSapra
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post #32 of 60 Old 06-13-2003, 12:09 AM
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It makes no difference when the screen wipe is run. Five minutes later, five hours later, whatever.

[Note: the above is true even though the white scrolling bar after a 2.35:1 or a 4:3 is pointless, AFAIC.]

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #33 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 02:46 PM
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Plasma screen: Pioneer PDP-505HD

I bought this screen used, from my company, where it had been used as a monitor in a network center. Noone was exactly sure how much it had been used, but worst case is likely 10,000 hours or so.

Apparently one of the company's web pages was what was primarily displayed on this screen, as it is burned in badly enough that you can sometimes read some of the text on it.

However:
- the burn-in doesn't always show up. It is often completely unnoticeable.
- it often gets worse based on how long the screen has been powered on. I assume this is related to heat buildup, but it doesn't always happen.
- at its worst, large areas of the burn-in will "bloom" out to almost white; I've noticed this most when watching sports on cable tv, but it's not consistent.
- there is one pixel which is always green, even if there is no input signal to the screen at all. Don't know if this is a burn-in issue or another kind of defect.

I haven't been able to correlate any particular viewing mode or input to how badly the burn-in shows up.

Considering the price I paid for this screen, I don't mind dealing with the burn-in. It usually detracts very little from what I'm watching.

I've read that displaying a static grey (or white) image for some amount of time can reverse the burn-in. Does anyone know if this is true? How long would it take? Thanks.
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post #34 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 02:53 PM
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Wayside ---

welcome to the best web site for everything AV: AVS Forums.

And welcome to the plasma forum.

Pocatello
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post #35 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 03:00 PM
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Wayside: The green pixel is a manufacturing defect. Forget that.

As for the burn in, if you really want to get rid of it, you should try to make a computer-based pattern that is the "reverse" of the burn in. In other words, it uses up the "rest of the screen" but doesn't use up the burned in area. You could do this with Photoshop, for example. I'd run that pattern for hours on end until the delineation of the burn in started to noticeably wane.

Then I'd use some random noise generator, screen wipes, etc. for many more hours.

But that's just me.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #36 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 05:14 PM
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Thanks for the answer, and the welcome.

My understanding is that burn-in is caused because the blue phosphors wear out sooner than the other colors. If I displayed a reverse image for as long as it took to cause the burn-in, wouldn't I just wind up with a screen that had reduced blue performance over the entire screen? That doesn't seem like a good thing...

Plus, it could take hundreds or thousands of hours, if it takes as long as it took to cause the burn-in.

What is a "screen wipe"?
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post #37 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 09:06 PM
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Deann,

Thanks for starting this. wow what great info. i just bought my 503cmx and was wondering about the same thing.

my main use will be HD material and dvd's so hopefully i will be able to keep image burn in from happening. even though my wife would probably use it as well for the kids to view kids tv for about 4 hrs a day, and i am concerned about the disney and cartoon network logos.

any ideas anyone?

Thanks
Carlos

"He who dies with the most toys wins". unless its home theater we die broke!!! Let The Games Begin
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post #38 of 60 Old 07-06-2003, 11:45 PM
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Burn in is caused by uneven wear of the phosphors not the blue ones. It's true the blue ones wear faster and therefore you might have to recalibrate more than a little bit over time. And eventually, the blue is likely to become useless first.

To even out the phosphor wear, you need to "burn" the rest of the screen as badly as the overutilized areas have been used. Is that sufficiently clear? If not, use the FAQ to get linked to a bunch more info or ask more questions.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #39 of 60 Old 07-07-2003, 07:12 AM
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Unfortunately as one "Burns", "Reverse Burns", "Bleaches" the display, it in essence removes some of the Brilliance of the phosphors.

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post #40 of 60 Old 07-07-2003, 01:18 PM
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Yeah, John, that's true. But there is often a lot of brilliance there to spare. If most of these have 20,000 hours to half-brightness (and might be usable and enjoyable after that point), you can surely "waste" a few hundred hours to mitigate an effect.

And you can run the "reverse burn in" stuff pretty hot, to cut the time down.

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #41 of 60 Old 07-07-2003, 02:36 PM
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Here's a question. Currently, I run my 503cmx at -22 Contrast (+6 Brightness). Obviously, that's far from the default of 0. So, assuming that they're guessing 20,000 hours until half brightness when set at the default contrast ratio (0). Shouldn't I have gained maybe 50% life until half brightness by adjusting my contrast? Not to mention that half brightness probably appears to be close to the setting that I currently am using, so at half brightness in say 30,000 (20,000 + 50%) hours I would be able to view the display the same as I do today if I set it back to the default contrast level (0), right? So really it's just about a 30,000 hour burn-in process to obtain proper contrast ratio. Your time to half brightness doesn't really start for 30,000 hours!! :) (tongue-in-cheek)
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post #42 of 60 Old 07-07-2003, 07:51 PM
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Why don't you call us in 30,000 hours and let us know. :D

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #43 of 60 Old 07-08-2003, 07:35 AM
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With the amount of time I've been putting in with this plasma lately, that might sooner than later. :)
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post #44 of 60 Old 07-10-2003, 10:20 PM
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rogo,

Thanks for the response. Creating a negative image would be a little tricky as I no longer work for the company I got the screen from, the web site was internal, and I have no idea what the background color might have been.

As far as the green "hot" pixel - I know some digital camera manufacturers have firmware that lets them set hot pixels to an average of the pixels around them. Do any plasmas have this type of feature? Are hot pixels a common problem with plasma screens?

-Charlie
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post #45 of 60 Old 07-11-2003, 01:03 AM
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I have a 503cmx and I use it about 2 hrs per day surfing, email, and other computer programs and then about 4 hours per day of computer games (Unreal Tournament 2003). One of my sons is a pro gamer, and I am not far behind him (I have not lost a match yet on the server I play on)... I leave my huds and scores on.... and have yet to notice any burn-in. Contrast +2, brightness -2
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post #46 of 60 Old 07-11-2003, 01:11 AM
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Contrast at +2 with the default settings in the integrator menu? Wow!

Ron
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post #47 of 60 Old 07-11-2003, 01:11 AM
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Charlie: Hot pixels are not common. Dead ones are somewhat frequent (not horrid, depends on mfg. co.) but stuck ones are rare.

You could try a crude negative image with just white and see if you can even things out.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #48 of 60 Old 08-08-2003, 07:00 AM
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Is this burn-in problem only with Plasma displays, or can LCD displays have it also?

.
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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #49 of 60 Old 08-08-2003, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by videobruce
Is this burn-in problem only with Plasma displays, or can LCD displays have it also?
Burn-in is over-rated on today's Plasmas. Just use some common sense.

Never heard about it on LCDs. Or seen it (I have 2)

Cheers

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post #50 of 60 Old 08-11-2003, 01:42 AM
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oh... and that blue stuck pixel in the left bottom that some are having at times... I found that if I point my mouse at that pixel (with the mouse off screen so it doesnt show) the pixel turns back to normal.... definitely a driver issue and not the plasma.
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post #51 of 60 Old 10-13-2003, 09:54 PM
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Despite all the wisdom and warnings, I often feel
that I need to view 4:3 stuff in "normal" mode,
with black sidebars, for satisfying viewing. Would
it then be good policy to turn on the "negative"
screensaver during commercials?
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post #52 of 60 Old 10-14-2003, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WagGag
Despite all the wisdom and warnings, I often feel
that I need to view 4:3 stuff in "normal" mode,
with black sidebars, for satisfying viewing. Would
it then be good policy to turn on the "negative"
screensaver during commercials?
Im sure its a fine policy,but its still going to happen eventually,you will simply prolong the time required a bit by doing what you mentioned. I really cant imagine why anyone would *HAVE* to watch 4:3 in standard mode with the host of options available stretching it out to the full screen mode. Especially with even the minor possibility of image burn.

I have seen numerous plasmas,and even more RP CRT units with bad image burn so I am going to be very careful with mine. Best Buy in my area can not GIVE away a Sampo plasma they have on open box demo because it has a "COMPONENT 1 1080i" display burned in on the upper right corner. They are now asking about 2000 for it versus the regular price and can not get rid of it. This would be an instance where someone handy with Photochop could,if they wanted to take the time,do the negative effect thing by attempting to create a similar logo in black and placing a totally white background behind it for several hours.
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post #53 of 60 Old 10-14-2003, 12:31 AM
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It sounds like it would be a nuisance to have to fiddle with the negative screensaver during commercials as you suggest, although it probably wouldn't do any harm. I found the dark gray setting for the sidebars easy to get used to, and even with the black setting had only the faintest trace of burn-in on an all-white screen after several months of viewing - not visible in normal use. I probably could reverse this by leaving the sidebars "light gray" with a black screen for a few hours (or maybe days) but IMO even this minor effort is really not worth bothering about.

Based on my own experience and the gazillion or so posts on the subject in this Forum, burn-in is not nearly the threat claimed by some, and in most cases not deserving of concern, unless you leave bright, static images displayed for days or weeks (e.g., airport monitors or other saturated, static commercial displays).
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post #54 of 60 Old 02-25-2004, 11:05 AM
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do you always get black bars from watching DVD's. Does that cause burn-in of a plasma?
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post #55 of 60 Old 02-25-2004, 11:29 AM
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What was that about light bulbs?

"1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from
now and start it all over again...."

Anyway on a more serious note, not all dvds will have black bars. A lot of movies are 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 and fill the whole screen. Anything greater than that like 2.35:1 will have black bars.

See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=332900
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post #56 of 60 Old 02-25-2004, 12:25 PM
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Back to the pause issue... what I plan to do when I get a plasma is to program a macro on my MX500. Any time pause is used the input will change or a screensaver will come up immediately. No worries.

The idea of moving a 4:3 image back and forth is an interesting one. Aside from alleviating the problem of burning in the 4:3 black bars on the side, it would help with X-Box games with static displays. The one that comess immediately to mind is Jedi Acadamy. Your stats are on the screen the entire time you are playing.
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post #57 of 60 Old 02-25-2004, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
Back to the pause issue... what I plan to do when I get a plasma is to program a macro on my MX500. Any time pause is used the input will change or a screensaver will come up immediately. No worries.

The idea of moving a 4:3 image back and forth is an interesting one. Aside from alleviating the problem of burning in the 4:3 black bars on the side, it would help with X-Box games with static displays. The one that comess immediately to mind is Jedi Acadamy. Your stats are on the screen the entire time you are playing.

but, even stopping play and turning the channel, or the monitor off for a few seconds helps, no?

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post #58 of 60 Old 04-11-2004, 08:04 PM
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i have a samsung ppm63h3 which has a automatic pixel shift to help prevent burn in. does anyone know if this works. it sounds like a great feature all plasma's should have since you can set the pixel shift time to your setting.

also what contrast and brightness levels are safe for my tv. i keep reading you should set the levels low, but i need specifics!!
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post #59 of 60 Old 04-11-2004, 08:39 PM
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I have a samsung plasma as well noticed that pixel shader thing wonder how it works.
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post #60 of 60 Old 04-11-2004, 11:14 PM
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There is one thread to rule them on all this topic... Please visit it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=387707

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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