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LG OLED: The arguments for holding off, and NOT holding off

3K views 86 replies 32 participants last post by  CHASLS2 
#1 · (Edited)
There's a lot of rehashed and emotionally charged discussions in the OLED threads (all of them) that keep surfacing, and among the repeat offenders are these two competing concepts:

1. Don't buy OLED now, because _____, _____, and _____.

and

2. Absolutely ignore the naysayers, and OLED is fine in _____, _____, and _____.

So I've become genuinely curious about what folks are truly seeing, but would love it to be in one thread (here). I think I might not be alone in this.

So here are the points commonly returned to that I've seen:


  1. Motion: Ready or not ready for prime time and/or not yet up to LCD pulse based standards.
  2. HDMI: Speed demands and handshaking not yet settled out enough.
  3. Dirty Screen Effect and those bands: Can you deal with an expensive TV exhibiting this.
  4. Vignetting and other color aberrations: Still too common?
  5. "No display is perfect."
 
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#3 ·
I think I'm going to wait on OLED for another year or two. I'm either going to live with my Kuros or get a Vizio P series to bridge the gap.

OLED looks great, but motion isn't quite there yet and I can't get over the black crush. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to it, but a lot of shadow detail keeps getting lost in the OLEDs I see. It's disconcerting because most of the image really pops and then you see these black blobs at times and it jars you.

Otherwise, OLED is stunning.
 
#9 ·
There wasn't a huge improvement in the 2016 models, yet they are selling for over twice the price.
Very untrue. Uniformity took a big step up. Perhaps some of the late builds from the 2015 lineup would get you close.

The biggest thing you're missing in the 2015 models is Dolby Vision. This is a risk if the industry standardizes around DV, but there's a few things to consider:
1) UHD Blu-Ray went with HDR10. That is an indicator to me that the industry is going with HDR10 as the standard.
2) Streaming services for the most part offer both, and determine which one to send based on what your TV supports. I have only seen a few movies from Amazon that are DV only.
HDR10 is crippled already on the 2015 models because it's not scalable. If you desire a half-decent HDR experience, Dolby Vision is a better choice for OLED since the dynamic metadata can automatically scale it to your TV's capabilities and avoid a less than optimum viewing experience (i.e. white clipping).
 
#12 · (Edited)
Pulled the trigger earlier this year, I should even preface with I was skeptical of LG and somewhat of an LG hater, never would have considered them in LCD/LED days, but since you have one option I had to see what everyone was talking about

$1k for a 55" 1080p set (9300) second hand from a family moving up to a 65" and buddy who found it by doing the install job for it, couldnt be beat!

Especially when I paid $650 for a Samsung 55" 1080p 120hz LED set two years prior, and that was a steal for its time (still seems to be, with lots of 60hz tv's cropping up on SD)

Dual 55" was great too, one in bedroom and OLED in living room

Yeah there's banding for near-blacks, but its tolerable, I personally don't see vignetting, my 9100 had pink tint obviously to the left, and this one does not so wooo to that. Obvious tint uniformity issues was my biggest gripe.

Either I haven't been looking recently, or not viewing near-black content, or adjusting settings helped, but I haven't seen a nasty near-black band in over a week now (not saying its not there, but smooth sailing)

Everything has compromises, and waiting will always be the smart thing to do, for the next big thing. Gotta commit to something at some point

I'm digging webOS too, even if its just 1.4 :) Had 2.0 briefly on 9100 and didnt seem much better or different
 
#16 ·
The fact that they had upped the brightness settings invalidates those results. Once you move the brightness setting up from 50, the blacks are not longer "0" and all the benefit of OLED is lost.

" Its brightness settings also needed to be upped from the default value of “50” to restore some shadow detail in HDR mode, which elevated its blacks, so the black level gap between OLED and LED LCD was narrowed.”

They should've used properly calibrated displays.
 
#18 ·
Here is one example how poorly transferred movies can cause issues. Ender's Game UHD has elevated blacks that actually cause the black bars to turn gray. I have seen this issue on a few standard blu rays too. If the blacks in the movies are not correctly mastered by the studio, you end up having to lower brightness to correct, and vice versa if the studios are crushing blacks.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Enders-Game-4K-Blu-ray/147734/
 
#20 ·
  1. Motion: Ready or not ready for prime time and/or not yet up to LCD pulse based standards.

    motion is different than lcd or plasma, but it is definitely ready for prime time. a non issue and not a reason to hold off


  2. HDMI: Speed demands and handshaking not yet settled out enough.

    IMO this is an issue, but not nearly large enough to hold off a purchase. most content will be streamed in the coming yrs and a good majority of that can be done through the display itself

  3. Dirty Screen Effect and those bands: Can you deal with an expensive TV exhibiting this.


    DSE in and of itself is not an issue worth holding off purchasing. the banding DEFINITELY can be. IMO, having returned a couple 9500's, it is really the only reason, other than price, to hold off on a purchase. That said, I only noticed issues when watching hockey games. even then it became a thing of what is seen cannot be unseen and all it did was focus on the banding


  4. Vignetting and other color aberrations: Still too common?


    they seem to be less common. unless you had a exceptionally bad unit, don't think it would keep me from purchasing

  5. "No display is perfect."
 
#23 ·
DSE in and of itself is not an issue worth holding off purchasing. the banding DEFINITELY can be. IMO, having returned a couple 9500's, it is really the only reason, other than price, to hold off on a purchase. That said, I only noticed issues when watching hockey games. even then it became a thing of what is seen cannot be unseen and all it did was focus on the banding
DSE and banding are not mutually exclusive. The former can be caused by the latter in various luminance ranges and is highlighted by horizontal camera pans. I have found the banding most pronounced around 5%. If the columns/bands have sharp edges delineating differences in luminance, these can most prominently appear when panning against darker solid backgrounds. This is probably the parameter of PQ to which I am most sensitive.
 
#32 ·
I have not found that to be the case unfortunately. What is revealed in slides can ultimately show up in content with the right background and luminance. My mantra is avoid slides unless you're seeing something repeatedly appear in the content you watch. The slides will either confirm it or prove you're hallucinating. :) It may not be frequently and may even qualify as rarely seen, but that's still too much by my estimation in an up to $8k TV. It's my one and only complaint.
 
#35 ·
Ok, so here we are nearly 3 months later. Is the general assessment still the same?

It seems like there have been improvements and discoveries both positive and negative.
 
#37 ·
I have 2 great plasmas right now so I'm not in need for a new TV, but if I was I would be in a major dilemma. I don't like the fact there LG has zero OLED competition. With no competition they won't strive to be better and prices won't get driven down. I don't want to give any company that much power in the product I choose.
 
#45 ·
I am still holding off. Have a perfect working 2400 hour 60VT60. Have a chance to buy a never used Kuro 141 but don't see a need in buying a 8 year old set that is close to what my 60vt60 is pic wise.

I hope to wait it out another 2 years and hope other makers get in on the act the problems get fixed.
 
#50 ·
Reasons to wait:
  • Poor motion clarity
  • Cyan tint to many images due to WRGB design
  • Limited viewing angles (color shift)
  • Low brightness/noticeable ABL dimming
  • BT.2020 coverage could be better
  • Vignetting/uniformity problems
  • Poor gradation near black
  • Suffers from image retention
  • High latency, gets even higher in HDR
  • Game mode drops chroma resolution
  • Doesn't offer integer scaling for 720p and 1080p inputs
  • Only accepts 60Hz inputs
  • Doesn't support Adaptive-Sync
  • High cost
  • Small size (for the money)

Reasons to buy one now:
  • Your current display doesn't perform as well as the OLEDs even in their current state - at least the areas which matter to you
  • Black level is the only thing you care about
  • You need a new display (previous one died) and can't accept spending a premium on an LCD
 
#54 ·
Reasons to wait:
  • Poor motion clarity
  • Cyan tint to many images due to WRGB design
  • Limited viewing angles (color shift)
  • Low brightness/noticeable ABL dimming
  • BT.2020 coverage could be better
  • Vignetting/uniformity problems
  • Poor gradation near black
  • Suffers from image retention
  • High latency, gets even higher in HDR
  • Game mode drops chroma resolution
  • Doesn't offer integer scaling for 720p and 1080p inputs
  • Only accepts 60Hz inputs
  • Doesn't support Adaptive-Sync
  • High cost
  • Small size (for the money)

Reasons to buy one now:
  • Your current display doesn't perform as well as the OLEDs even in their current state - at least the areas which matter to you
  • Black level is the only thing you care about
  • You need a new display (previous one died) and can't accept spending a premium on an LCD
Your reasons are dead on. I would get a OLED if my 60vt60 bit the dust today.
 
#57 ·
Stop arguing the points. Either you want it and you buy it or you don't .

My G6 is great. Set up was easy, no HDMI handshake issues, no banding even on Hockey. Colors pop and blacks do get crushed but that happens on my Pioneer too. The motion handling is good. I se occasional jutter but its content related.

The Tv is fine. If I didn't upgrade from my 1994 Sony XBR4, I would have been just fine too.
 
#58 ·
IMHO, comparing the 4K OLED's to anything else is absurd. Throw in a 4K HDR BD and watch on any 4K OLED set and you will be blown away. The black levels are probably the most important aspect of the viewing experience than anything else. Don't forget LG is really a manufacturing company that makes the OLED panels and they're improving the rejection rate on the panels making the panels cheaper. We're already seeing prices dropping significantly way quicker than last years models. The OLED sets are going to be the gold standard for a long time and will only get better. If the gray uniformity at certain brightness levels get better and the color accuracy improves, we're getting closer to a perfect set. Unless you want a screen larger than 65" or smaller than 55" and can afford the price, OLED's are the only way to go.

To me, it's actually shocking there is such a thing even available at this level. I loved my Panny plasma but the 4K OLED HDR blows the Panny put of the water. Not even close.
 
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#59 ·
And they could be much better. The processing options on my e6 are reasonably useless in that they cause more problems than they add value. I can play around with the processing functions on my Sony 950b to tweek the picture to my taste with generally little downside, things like motion smoothing which works well on the Sony through its Reality Creation feature versus the poor implementation of Truemotion on the lg. Luckily the OLED panels don't need a lot of processing tricks to look great but it would be nice if the features worked better without causing detail loss and video artifacts. So much of what I watch could care less about absolute black level as well, studio shows, sports and many well produced procedurals. I still think my 950b does a bit better on upscaling of cable broadcast 720 or even some 1080. Not quite as black and white as you make it out to be. Regards. Ned.
 
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