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Delusional Hopes for LG OLED in 2017

6K views 65 replies 28 participants last post by  fafrd 
#1 ·
First of all, I am fully aware that this will NEVER, EVER happen in 2017. LG is far too interested in selling low cost to manufacturer 34 widescreen monitors for a thousand dollars



A set that is ultra wide so they can throw out a bigger diagonal number while providing FAR less screen area for the given diagonal measure. No HDR, just bottom barrel offerings, once again, for the pc monitor market.


But I digress. Consider this a what if. What IF someone, or a team of someones at LG decided to say eff it to the bean counters, and release the following next year:

-40-43" 4k OLED (2017 oled revision)
-120 Hz (with optional 240Hz version for higher cost for 120Hz 4k 3d shown off with Ang Lees new movie)
-adaptive sync range of 30-120Hz
-Sample and hold OR a toggle option to turn that off and switch to a low persistence strobing mode (will probably lead to lower peak brightness but that might be OK in a dark room)
-sub 20ms input lag
-non trash inputs, on top of the already obsolete when released hdmi 2.0, add dp 1.4 and supermhl connectors.
-more advanced burn in countermeasures
-closer to dci-p3 color than 2016 models


-Price... 1-1.5k


/end delusion

Will this happen, of course not, but I have to dream. And one day, in 2025, after vr displays and magic leap style displays have long since surpassed what can be achieved on large screens for a fraction of the cost, then maybe I'll see such a display a decade too late.
 
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#6 ·
Maybe in a couple of years. Still a long way to go pricewise on their TVs, let alone computer monitors. Their current ultrawide 34" LCD still goes for a grand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That right there seems to me to be the biggest factor working against what I listed in the OP. How much money can lg gain per unit area of oled displays of 55/65 inch diagonal sets vs 40 inch sets?

(goes to do some grade school maths)

OK, going off 2016 effective prices off amazon (5k for 65" oled and 3.5k for 55" oled) and calculating the cost per area of panel....


65" oled tv ~ $2.77/sq inch
55" oled tv ~ $2.70/sq inch

did not expect that, virtually the same cost per sq inch from lg oled sizes

And... assuming similar scaling down to a 40 inch oled screen

40" oled ~ $1847 dollars in 2016 effective retail prices


That's NOT far right NOW from my manic/insane high end 1500 price target! Of course that's the cost of entire sets, not just the panel, but some of the fixed costs of processing and connectors seem to be offset via the likely increased yield rate for smaller panel sizes. As for the other advances like higher refresh and dp..


How much money would it REALLY cost to add in dp 1.3/1.4? 5 dollars? 10? A lot of this stuff is REALLY not expensive, AT ALL. Freesync support? Seems like a VERY low cost tech to implement.



But other areas are a total black box.

Faster image processing? How would you actually get a chip capable of much faster image processing? How much would it cost to allow both sample and hold on top of strobing? Nothing more than a setting change or some more substantial engineering?


I suspect it would not be THAT challenging to add the gaming focused/pc focused features, the REAL cost is the actual display, and it looks like with a VERY similar cost/area, lg could make similar dollars per given screen area...

Ok, someone talk me down, how is this not feasible for lg to implement YESTERDAY? Pure capacity? The financials seem there already.

A 1500 dollar 40" 4k oled with 120Hz refresh with adaptive sync and HDR would DECIMATE the high end pc gaming / pc display market. Built in smart tv netflix/amazon/other would allow walled garden 4k/hdr streaming that pc users are DENIED, and improve damn near everything else. ALL high end monitor purchasers would abandon lcd that were able and pile onto lg oled on the pc.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, the path forward seems so obvious to me, do they think there is no market? I thought they could not make the same money, but they are ALMOST all the way there for the right price target at the smaller display size.
 
#7 ·
Doesn't alot of this really hinge on others getting in the panel production business? As long as LG basically monopolizes the OLED large panel fab process, we're basically stuck with whatever incremental annual progress (and prices) they deem acceptable for shareholders...
 
#8 ·
They will have a monopoly until qled offers an alternative for emissive displays, but they can still increase profits by expanding out of just the pure tv market.

There is still the high end notebook market and pc gaming market they can tap into. Why limit production capacity to just pure tvs and phone displays? More markets would yield more profits, I am still not seeing the downside to expansion and an opening up for their oleds. the 40" pc gaming focused tv/monitor will not cut into the larger display segment, because in a living room people crave larger displays, this would just open up a new market and venue for profits and revenue and happier shareholders. I don't know how long this supposed qled will take to come to market, but getting in earlier into the emissive display market on computers might make it easier and faster to lower the cost while maintaining margin before the real competition comes. If they wait 3+ more years, there might be alternatives that make oleds not quite as attractive in that space compared to the current offerings (i.e. 1500-2000 nit led displays with much finer grain full array local dimming). I see no upside for increased delays for them.

No more delay, let's get on it lg.
 
#10 ·
Yes, I saw that all the way back during CES coverage in January and it's a completely ridiculous display.

4k
120Hz
oled
30 inches....

5 THOUSAND dollars.


You can get an oled FAR larger than that for the same or 1500 dollars less than that.

It does 120Hz through some abnormal displayport alternate mechanism of usb type c, I don't even know what kind of desktop system this can connect to. Certainly can't from any of the major gpu vendors, you might have something on a modern motherboard, but could that drive games? The display hit AFTER dp 1.3/1.4 was in the market on gpus, and they chose not to bother putting in that OBVIOUS connector.

WTF is up with display makers and their HATRED of displayport? It's like they think adding some 5 dollar connector/input will cause them to go bankrupt.


No adaptive sync.

And once again, 5 thousand dollars. It's more pixel dense than a 40-43" 4k screen, but it's still too small for 4k in my view. There are massive diminishing returns to 4k at that size, even closer to the screen. Too small, too much money, criminally lacking input options, ridiculous. They don't want ANYONE but some VERY niche users to buy such a thing. That is the polar opposite of what I want to see happen with 4k oleds for pc use.
 
#16 ·
-55" flat
-sub 30ms input lag
-120Hz @ 1080p
-optional nearest neighbour interpolation, i.e. 4 pixel = 1 pixel for 1080p signals

some black-frame-insertion options would be nice too.

I would love to see a menu option to disable all "smart" functionality, so the display behaves as a monitor only.

I don't think the above is unreasonable
I'd happily pay $3000 for such a display.
 
#17 · (Edited)
-optional nearest neighbour interpolation, i.e. 4 pixel = 1 pixel for 1080p signals
If your primary use is as an HTPC, then you can actually specify nearest neighbor upscaling in several media players (mpc-hc and mpv come to mind) as well as in madvr itself.

I took advantage of this ability a lot on my previous HTPC which had such el-lame-o graphics (read: 9-year old Intel 965GMA) that nearest neighbor and bilinear were the only scaling options that didn't result in a lag-fest (because all other algorithms insisted on using my GPU in some manner rather than only using the CPU even though my 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo was fast enough to even do 60fps 1080p VP9 without a hitch).
 
#26 ·
I know there is always something "new" around the corner, but I was reading a IFA 2016 prep article on flat panels site and came across the following:

Manufacturers will discuss HDR10 vs. Dolby Vision, and we expect to see the formal introduction of a third HDR format that the broadcast industry has been working on for some time; namely HLG - or Hybrid Log Gamma. HLG is a single-stream HDR format designed for broadcasting a combined SDR+HDR signal over a TV channel. Hopefully, some existing TVs can be firmware updated to support HLG.
Read more at http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1472036711#ppi4cvIgek13TPGK.99

This is the first I have heard of another standard other than HDR10 or DV, and really gives me pause for buying a 2016 set. Add on top of that HDMI issues and it seems like 2017 may be a better long term option.

Plus I keep hoping for Panasonic to come out with a new set.
 
#31 ·
Atmos-over-ARC.

Possibly improvements in blur-based motion performance (especially introduction of BFI).

The picture quality is now incredibly good (incremental improvements only).

P.s. And if the 2016 OLEDs do not function properly with the 2017 Dolby-Vision-enabled UHD Bluray players expected to emerge in 2017' especially the one expected from LG, that would rise to the top of the stack...
 
#43 ·
lmao. Pricing is certainly always a big issue with desirable things and OLED TV's are no different. On another subject, does anyone know if LG announced the 2016 models last year at the CES show or was it at CEDIA 2015? In other words, do most expect news regarding the new 2017 OLED lineup at CES in January?
 
#54 · (Edited)
First of all, I am fully aware that this will NEVER, EVER happen in 2017. LG is far too interested in selling low cost to manufacturer 34 widescreen monitors for a thousand dollars



A set that is ultra wide so they can throw out a bigger diagonal number while providing FAR less screen area for the given diagonal measure. No HDR, just bottom barrel offerings, once again, for the pc monitor market.


But I digress. Consider this a what if. What IF someone, or a team of someones at LG decided to say eff it to the bean counters, and release the following next year:

-40-43" 4k OLED (2017 oled revision)
AIUI, it's unlikely for them to make a U-turn on their current fab cutting, given the current upfront cost of their new facilities doing what they've already implemented (55/65/77).

I'm not correcting you; I understand you've established your list with the neon not-a-chance title blinking at the top.


-120 Hz (with optional 240Hz version for higher cost for 120Hz 4k 3d shown off with Ang Lees new movie)
I don't think this is out of the question. 120 native is already often supported these days: The only gotcha is whether or not HDMI is up to the task for it by then. AIUI (please correct me if I'm wrong), but currently blu-ray quality 4K/HDR/120Hz/4:4:4 isn't there yet. (?)


-Sample and hold OR a toggle option to turn that off and switch to a low persistence strobing mode (will probably lead to lower peak brightness but that might be OK in a dark room)
I find regard it entirely possible that if Sony does enter the OLED game (via LGD), that they'll implement their famed Motion Flow Impulse for precisely the motion comfort reasons. HDR level brightness allows for this to be closer to acceptable, however I doubt that HDR would be possible when the OLED is excited for short durations. (Your pie-in-the-sky hopes above mitigate this hugely however).

Sony also has the best upscaling and interpolation I've ever seen, with the eternal caveat that I don't have a SBS setup in a lab.

But Sony still suffers from their schizophrenic pricing. It's still entirely detached from reality from year to year. I'll still buy them however.
 
#62 ·
They are, but they don't accept a native 120Hz input video signal.

The 120Hz on current OLEDs is purely achieved via interpolation.

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that is from the TVs point of view, not the AVRs
Well of course; this thread is titled "Delusional Hopes for LG OLED in 2017", not "Delusional Hopes for Denon AVR in 2017".
 
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