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post #1 of 54 Old 09-19-2016, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Downsides to OLED

Hi guys. Looking at a new TV purchase, and I've narrowed my choices down to either an LG 65G6P or a 75" Sony Z9D which is getting pretty rave reviews. I could use some straightforward info to help with the decision...I know that the OLED sets have inky blacks and great off-axis viewing, but what are the downsides? How's motion processing? Uniformity? Brightness? HDR? Any other issues where even OLED proponents would have to begrudgingly admit that OLED's lag a bit compared to the new Sony LEDs?

Thanks in advance!!
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post #2 of 54 Old 09-19-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tbacos View Post
Hi guys. Looking at a new TV purchase, and I've narrowed my choices down to either an LG 65G6P or a 75" Sony Z9D which is getting pretty rave reviews. I could use some straightforward info to help with the decision...I know that the OLED sets have inky blacks and great off-axis viewing, but what are the downsides? How's motion processing? Uniformity? Brightness? HDR? Any other issues where even OLED proponents would have to begrudgingly admit that OLED's lag a bit compared to the new Sony LEDs?

Thanks in advance!!
My only issues with OLED versus the Sony would be not as good at upscaling less than very good source material and not quite as good at motion handling. For me OLED is bright enough, panel is fine, not enough HDR to matter or know yet, off axis a big deal if it matters. The extra 10 inches on Sony would be great but you are certainly paying o ton for that as you can buy an e6 for $5,000. If price were no object, I would go for the larger panel, size matters and the Sony is no doubt more than good enough. Regards. Ned.
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post #3 of 54 Old 09-19-2016, 08:20 PM
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I would also mention that I own a Sony 950b, which is great and an lg e6 OLED. Regards. Ned.
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post #4 of 54 Old 09-20-2016, 04:24 AM
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Only down side for me is the size. LG needs to make an affordable 75 inch OLED. If I were you, I'd go for size. Waiting to see if there's an affordable B series type 75 inch OLED at CES next year. If not, I'll be getting one of Sony's 75 inch displays (940D or Z9D).

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post #5 of 54 Old 09-20-2016, 07:01 AM
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There isn't just going to be an "affordable" 75 or 77 inch next year. 15K sounds possible though. Gonna be a little longer before they can really get it around 10K
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post #6 of 54 Old 09-20-2016, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
There isn't just going to be an "affordable" 75 or 77 inch next year. 15K sounds possible though. Gonna be a little longer before they can really get it around 10K
Well that's too bad...

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post #7 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 05:29 PM
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In all honesty, owning an OLED makes me realize how bad the contrast levels are at my local cineplex.
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post #8 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
In all honesty, owning an OLED makes me realize how bad the contrast levels are at my local cineplex.
Ain't that the truth...I find myself thinking, wow aren't blacks supposed to be black not grey!
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post #9 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:11 PM
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Motion is the downside and weak link in the LG OLEDs for sure, other than that the image quality is fantastic
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post #10 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:26 PM
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It should be mentioned though that "sub-par" motion on OLED is not the same as "sub-par" motion on LCD.

OLED has no ghosting. None, no matter what. This can be quite nice for high frame rate content (~60fps).

The issue is that LG does not use any sort of black-frame insertion at all, so for low frame rate content (~24fps) you either have to live with sample-and-hold blur, motion interpolation, or some sort of half-way between the two.

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post #11 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
It should be mentioned though that "sub-par" motion on OLED is not the same as "sub-par" motion on LCD.

OLED has no ghosting. None, no matter what. This can be quite nice for high frame rate content (~60fps).

The issue is that LG does not use any sort of black-frame insertion at all, so for low frame rate content (~24fps) you either have to live with sample-and-hold blur, motion interpolation, or some sort of half-way between the two.
I must just not be sensitive to that; I see none of that when watching 24P video with all enhancements shut off on my 65EF9500.

A 24P film from BD looks like film should look, IMHO, rather than SOE video.

Motion looks no different than it did on my Panasonic plasma.
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post #12 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:34 PM
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Only down side for me is the size. LG needs to make an affordable 75 inch OLED. ..........
Agreed $20,000 is
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post #13 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
It should be mentioned though that "sub-par" motion on OLED is not the same as "sub-par" motion on LCD.

OLED has no ghosting. None, no matter what. This can be quite nice for high frame rate content (~60fps).

The issue is that LG does not use any sort of black-frame insertion at all, so for low frame rate content (~24fps) you either have to live with sample-and-hold blur, motion interpolation, or some sort of half-way between the two.


It's the 60fps video games, where impulse or BFI is needed. 24p BD movies should look nicer on a sample-and-hold OLED than on a plasma for example. The plasma shows four shapes (96Hz) of everything during motion, whereas the OLED exhibits only blur but no additional shapes during motion (see the Roulette scene in Casino Royale).
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post #14 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
Motion is the downside and weak link in the LG OLEDs for sure, other than that the image quality is fantastic
I see no motion issues at all, coming from plasma.
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post #15 of 54 Old 09-21-2016, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post


It's the 60fps video games, where impulse or BFI is needed. 24p BD movies should look nicer on a sample-and-hold OLED than on a plasma for example. The plasma shows four shapes (96Hz) of everything during motion, whereas the OLED exhibits only blur but no additional shapes during motion (see the Roulette scene in Casino Royale).
My point was that, the higher your frame rate, the greater the benefit of no ghosting is and the lesser the benefit of black frame insertion is.

This is arguably why strobing backlights aren't more common in high-refresh PC monitors - because you start getting diminishing returns when your framerate is already at like 144fps.

Don't forget, a large reason why TVs have motion interpolation is to increase the motion resolution by artificially increasing the frame rate without needing to reduce the brightness.

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post #16 of 54 Old 09-23-2016, 07:11 AM
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My point was that, the higher your frame rate, the greater the benefit of no ghosting is and the lesser the benefit of black frame insertion is.
This is arguably why strobing backlights aren't more common in high-refresh PC monitors - because you start getting diminishing returns when your framerate is already at like 144fps.
The majority of high refresh rate monitors do incorporate some form of backlight strobing.
144Hz still has 7ms persistence which is very high and significantly reduces the motion resolution.
Even a CRT with <1ms persistence shows motion blur with fast motion - which becomes a larger issue the higher your resolution is.
We need to get image persistence down to something like a tenth of a millisecond for blur-free motion at UHD resolution.
That's not happening on a flicker-free display any time soon - it would require a 10kHz refresh rate and source framerate. We'll be lucky if we see 120Hz OLED displays next year, and there's very little point to going beyond 120Hz or so with most LCDs panel types due to their high response times.
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post #17 of 54 Old 09-23-2016, 10:12 AM
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The only downside I can't think of is it made me buy a LG.
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post #18 of 54 Old 09-23-2016, 10:44 AM
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post #19 of 54 Old 09-23-2016, 11:03 AM
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downside... whites. they are anything and everything but white.


other than that, the current size availability/price is definitely a downside. I am ok with the 65", but would much prefer 75+" for reasonable money. the bigger Sony, isn't OMG CRAZY money, but it is still A LOT.

I have no issues with the motion on my E6. NONE. I come from plasmas and notice the motion to be different, but not in a negative way.

one small complaint I have right now is black crush, but am confident upon professional calibration it will be resolved.

If I had 10 grand to spend on a TV, I would opt for the larger sony Z9D or get the 65" E6 oled and pocket half the money. the 3 grand difference for the G6 isn't really buying you anything that I feel matters. some speaker aesthetics.... and 3 grand is a lot of money.

even though I think the OLED offers better PQ, size does matter and given how financially sound you are, 10 grand might not be much money to you. If that's the case, get the Sony. If money isn't as easy to come by, save half and get the E6
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post #20 of 54 Old 09-23-2016, 11:40 AM
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The 65" G6 has had a $3k price drop, though it's not widely visible in authorized channels yet (Cleveland will hook you up). Larger sizes matter to a point...if the PQ (namely, contrast ratio and black levels) are close enough to the smaller-sized TV you're considering.
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post #21 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 10:04 PM
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I came down to the same decision as the OP and decided on the OLED65G6P over the 75 Z9D. After about a week now with the G6P, I saved around $4000. I have to say the G6P's passive 3D where 4K resolution allows for true 1080p on each eye beats out my former active plasma, the F8500 in clarity of image and color. I have had to adjust the out of the box 3D settings to get the motion closer to what I am used to on the plasma, however I am already used to the slight difference I am seeing. Make no mistake, the plasma motion is perfect, and you will see stutter in the Oled every now and then. Perhaps I do need to buy an Oppo and pass my cable thru through it so that it upconverts to 4k more properly than the TV can as others have done. I need to do that with a laserdisc player if I want it to look its best.

Overal I suggest getting the OLED, you won't be dissapointed.
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post #22 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 10:15 PM
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I came down to the same decision as the OP and decided on the OLED65G6P over the 75 Z9D. After about a week now with the G6P, I saved around $4000. I have to say the G6P's passive 3D where 4K resolution allows for true 1080p on each eye beats out my former active plasma, the F8500 in clarity of image and color. I have had to adjust the out of the box 3D settings to get the motion closer to what I am used to on the plasma, however I am already used to the slight difference I am seeing. Make no mistake, the plasma motion is perfect, and you will see stutter in the Oled every now and then. Perhaps I do need to buy an Oppo and pass my cable thru through it so that it upconverts to 4k more properly than the TV can as others have done. I need to do that with a laserdisc player if I want it to look its best.

Overal I suggest getting the OLED, you won't be dissapointed.
These probably have the 3d you will ever see guaranteed, I would start off with Pacific Rim!
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post #23 of 54 Old 08-11-2017, 04:38 AM
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Downsides to OLED? Near black performance isnt perfect and needs tweaking but you can get it dialed in fairly well. The HDR capabilities are decent but some higher-end LCDs can get brighter. With extreme use cases like all-day long TV logos and possibly all day gaming there is more chance of image retention issues.

Mostly though, OLEDs perform wonderfully and IMO have the best overall PQ out there right now.

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post #24 of 54 Old 08-11-2017, 04:43 AM
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Downsides to OLED? Near black performance isnt perfect and needs tweaking but you can get it dialed in fairly well. The HDR capabilities are decent but some higher-end LCDs can get brighter. With extreme use cases like all-day long TV logos and possibly all day gaming there is more chance of image retention issues.

Mostly though, OLEDs perform wonderfully and IMO have the best overall PQ out there right now.
We know it's not all day long logo that can create burn in but 3-4 hours a day.

Did you forget the S in AVS stand for science. Stop with claim we know is not true.
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post #25 of 54 Old 08-11-2017, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Downsides to OLED? Near black performance isnt perfect and needs tweaking but you can get it dialed in fairly well. The HDR capabilities are decent but some higher-end LCDs can get brighter. With extreme use cases like all-day long TV logos and possibly all day gaming there is more chance of image retention issues.

Mostly though, OLEDs perform wonderfully and IMO have the best overall PQ out there right now.
We know it's not all day long logo that can create burn in but 3-4 hours a day.

Did you forget the S in AVS stand for science. Stop with claim we know is not true.
I agree. OLED seems to be much more susceptible to "burn in" than originally discussed on this Forum.

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post #26 of 54 Old 08-11-2017, 07:49 AM
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These probably have the 3d you will ever see guaranteed, I would start off with Pacific Rim!
Thanks for the tip. So far I've only played Avatar in 3D but will try Pacific Rim 3D tonight.
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post #27 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 05:42 AM
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We know it's not all day long logo that can create burn in but 3-4 hours a day.

Did you forget the S in AVS stand for science. Stop with claim we know is not true.
We also know that this doesn't affect all users that adhere to the so called normal viewing conditions so the science goes out the window. Ugh....can't find a thread these days without burn in babbling. It's deja vu as in like plasma all over again.

Maybe there should be one huge banner across the top of AVS site that says do not buy an OLED because it's guaranteed to burn in. Sony or LG, doesn't matter.

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post #28 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 05:59 AM
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We also know that this doesn't affect all users that adhere to the so called normal viewing conditions so the science goes out the window. Ugh....can't find a thread these days without burn in babbling. It's deja vu as in like plasma all over again.

Maybe there should be one huge banner across the top of AVS site that says do not buy an OLED because it's guaranteed to burn in. Sony or LG, doesn't matter.
Who said anything about not buying an oled?

Can't you not see that it's limited to criticisms about news channel and in some extreme case, video games with a yellow UI.

What's the problem with informing people about that. If you're planning on using this TV as a CNN hub, go away. That's simple.

Nobody said burn in outside those specific condition is prevalent. In fact, almost everyone agree that outside news channel, it's almost impossible to get burn.... Except some weird problem like the one PRO-630HD got.

I agree there should be some topic merging.

I also agree there should be a banner saying, if you plan on watching news channel for 3-4 hours a day, a aware of some risk. That's it.
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post #29 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 06:53 AM
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We know it's not all day long logo that can create burn in but 3-4 hours a day.

Did you forget the S in AVS stand for science. Stop with claim we know is not true.
This is exactly why I'm on the fence in purchasing my first OLED. I'm an early riser and first thing I turn on is the news and it's pretty much on for about 3 hours until I leave my house and go to work. I did get that stupid channel 5 logo burned in on my Kuro a few years ago and ended up selling it for 1/2 the price. I feel if I do get an OLED I can only get from BB since their expensive warranty covers burn in. I would also have to baby this TV and change my viewing habits. I'm also worried about the top and bottom bars from movies as well. I want to get the best but not sure if it's worth it at this point.
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post #30 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 08:46 AM
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