Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 65 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1921 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Emes View Post
Here we go, Flatpanels.hd finally released the A1-review.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1492757435

Pro:
Outstanding for HDR
Reference image quality
Great image processing
Best motion system for OLED so far
Good and innovative sound system

Contra:
Android doesn't live up to full potential
Poor remote
Vertical bands on darker grey tones
Mediocre input lag
High power consumption in standby

More facts:
- DCI 95,264%
- "We saw an unexpected shift en dE values for colors, i.e., primary and secondary colors, where red, magenta, and yellow suddenly deviate from our reference. Sony doesn?t provide a CMS to correct these minor errors. The offsets didn?t show up as noticeable errors in e.g. skintones but Sony hasn?t been able to reproduce the reading so we are still waiting for them to look at our raw data."
- 680 Nits Peak
- "If you avoid changing the "Bias" setting option of the 2-point gray scale you are left with the black level we?ve come to expect from OLED, yielding infinite contrast which is the greatest merit of the OLED technology."

Total Result. 86% - Reference April 2017 (Not tested yet LG, Panasonic)

Cheers,
Emes
What does he mean "vertical banding on darker grey tones"? Will this be visible during normal watching... I had a Vizio with vertical banding issues concerning the backlight, it would be apparent watching soccer and football on grass scenes. I don't want to get this unit and suffer from deja vu
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post #1922 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AVS_Jad View Post
What does he mean "vertical banding on darker grey tones"? Will this be visible during normal watching... I had a Vizio with vertical banding issues concerning the backlight, it would be apparent watching soccer and football on grass scenes. I don't want to get this unit and suffer from deja vu

He's referring to the same problem that force me to return my unit. You only see it on sources that are mastered just above black, dark gray menus, or dark cloudy and smokey scenes. It's unlikely that you would see it during sports.


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post #1923 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AVS_Jad View Post
What does he mean "vertical banding on darker grey tones"? Will this be visible during normal watching... I had a Vizio with vertical banding issues concerning the backlight, it would be apparent watching soccer and football on grass scenes. I don't want to get this unit and suffer from deja vu
Here is your answer:

The results are very similar to E6 and once again we have to conclude that there are still some minor homogeneity issues. The problem is mostly academic in nature, as we didn’t see the bands while watching movies. Like E6, we noticed faint yellowish tint in the center of the panel on bright backgrounds but again this wasn’t observed during actual use.
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post #1924 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I assume you're referring to the issue where the gamut goes crazy and becomes oversaturated as you decrease luminance? A fix for this issue alone is worth the Sony price of admission if you ask me. I found it very distracting when watching compressed content on the LG OLEDs. The issue is still there on higher quality content if you move closer to the screen - it is just lost in the film grain and noise instead of being exposed in larger macroblocks. Does anyone know if the 2017 LG has also fixed this?
That's correct. Looks like Sony has corrected some of this but I have to verify when I calibrate it. According to Tedd and what I saw with my eye on the W7, looks like no change on the LG.
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post #1925 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emes View Post
Here we go, Flatpanels.hd finally released the A1-review.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1492757435

Pro:
Outstanding for HDR
Reference image quality
Great image processing
Best motion system for OLED so far
Good and innovative sound system

Contra:
Android doesn't live up to full potential
Poor remote
Vertical bands on darker grey tones
Mediocre input lag
High power consumption in standby

More facts:
- DCI 95,264%
- "We saw an unexpected shift en dE values for colors, i.e., primary and secondary colors, where red, magenta, and yellow suddenly deviate from our reference. Sony doesn’t provide a CMS to correct these minor errors. The offsets didn’t show up as noticeable errors in e.g. skintones but Sony hasn’t been able to reproduce the reading so we are still waiting for them to look at our raw data."
- 680 Nits Peak
- "If you avoid changing the "Bias" setting option of the 2-point gray scale you are left with the black level we’ve come to expect from OLED, yielding infinite contrast which is the greatest merit of the OLED technology."

Total Result. 86% - Reference April 2017 (Not tested yet LG, Panasonic)

Cheers,
Emes
The reason why they saw banding is that they really needed to do at least one clear screen which Sony discourages but LG says no problem. Seems like the same process and takes the exact same amount of time. Once done, it should be fine. How do I know, because my set was a mess until I did a clear screen and the remaining very slight banding I couldn't see with real content no matter how much I tried. Also I took a look at 5 sets at VE yesterday and they are all good, same as mine. Now we will have to see what others say when they get their sets but it "appears" that the panel lottery might be getting better this year. You notice that they didn't see any vignetting!

Update: After reading the review again, the 5% slide they show is exactly what I saw on all the sets I viewed. Some a tad bit better, some a tad bit worse but no vignetting. Doing a clear screen will make them lighter. What really surprised me, and they confirmed it, is that you can't see this faint banding with content. I tried and I knew where to look. I guess if I used those toilet paper roll glasses and put my face to the screen, you might be able to see them lol I hope this improvement carries through the rest of the years production.

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Last edited by jrref; 04-21-2017 at 06:43 AM.
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post #1926 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emes View Post
Here we go, Flatpanels.hd finally released the A1-review.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1492757435

Pro:
Outstanding for HDR
Reference image quality
Great image processing
Best motion system for OLED so far
Good and innovative sound system

Contra:
Android doesn't live up to full potential
Poor remote
Vertical bands on darker grey tones
Mediocre input lag
High power consumption in standby

More facts:
- DCI 95,264%
- "We saw an unexpected shift en dE values for colors, i.e., primary and secondary colors, where red, magenta, and yellow suddenly deviate from our reference. Sony doesn?t provide a CMS to correct these minor errors. The offsets didn?t show up as noticeable errors in e.g. skintones but Sony hasn?t been able to reproduce the reading so we are still waiting for them to look at our raw data."
- 680 Nits Peak
- "If you avoid changing the "Bias" setting option of the 2-point gray scale you are left with the black level we?ve come to expect from OLED, yielding infinite contrast which is the greatest merit of the OLED technology."

Total Result. 86% - Reference April 2017 (Not tested yet LG, Panasonic)

Cheers,
Emes
The reason why they saw banding is that they really needed to do at least one clear screen which Sony discourages but LG says no problem. Seems like the same process and takes the exact same amount of time. Once done, it should be fine. How do I know, because my set was a mess until I did a clear screen and the remaining very slight banding I couldn't see with real content no matter how much I tried. Also I took a look at 5 sets at VE yesterday and they are all good, same as mine. Now we will have to see what others say when they get their sets but it "appears" that the panel lottery might be getting better this year. You notice that they didn't see any vignetting!
Great to hear. I think I will make my concrete decision today..
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post #1927 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AVS_Jad View Post
What does he mean "vertical banding on darker grey tones"? Will this be visible during normal watching... I had a Vizio with vertical banding issues concerning the backlight, it would be apparent watching soccer and football on grass scenes. I don't want to get this unit and suffer from deja vu

He's referring to the same problem that force me to return my unit. You only see it on sources that are mastered just above black, dark gray menus, or dark cloudy and smokey scenes. It's unlikely that you would see it during sports.


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Sucks you had to return yours. You clearly noticed this issue on those types of scenes? Did you take pics? Maybe you had a faulty panel or you needed to give it time to break in or do the panel clear thing
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post #1928 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:38 AM
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It would be great to see a review where they are looking at diverse content like Mad Max 4K BD and Sicario 4K BD... How else can you see the full extent of what a TV can do unless you feed it with 4K BD with different scenes and imaging. What is the overall impression from watching The Hunger Games 4K BD to The Last Witch Hunter 4K BD?

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them 4K BD is a screen tester workout for sure.

Play these discs on any E6, G6 or whatever and the A1E and there is no damn comparison. Archer did use Pan 4K BD to his credit.

Planet Earth II is not the only disc on the planet.

And albiet, reviewers "know" TV but come off to know nothing about content. Force Awakens is NOT the SW movie to try out an OLED with, they all have the same opening crawl.

Try an OLED with the first 20mins of SW Ep III BD, which is one of the greatest OLED showoff pieces in existence.

PS4pro Horizon Zero Dawn and Mass Effect: Andromeda HDR performance? XBOX1s Gears Of War HDR performance?

These marginal shortcut reviews pitting gray screens in the place of actual content playback performance is why I purchased all of the top TVs, and 4K discs, to be sure for myself.
I think it's a good thing if a reviewer try out lower quality Blu-rays as well not just the reference quality ones, because most people will watch movies because of the movie not because of the disc quality
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post #1929 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:45 AM
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post #1930 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:54 AM
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Great to hear. I think I will make my concrete decision today..
Which way you leaning?
Right now A1... followed closely by the 930e. I don't think I want an LG from last year
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post #1931 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:56 AM
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Sucks you had to return yours. You clearly noticed this issue on those types of scenes? Did you take pics? Maybe you had a faulty panel or you needed to give it time to break in or do the panel clear thing

I did panel clear/comp cycle it twice. It didn't change anything. I only took pics from slides. Realistically, most people are not going to see it on the type of content that they watch - especially if they're just watching reference material mostly. And I doubt most panels will be as obvious to the naked eye as mine was.


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post #1932 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 06:56 AM
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Been following this thread closely for a while now. Sounds like this "should" be my next OLED choice, but given that it'll very likely be wall mounted (my preference) that may prevent me from going with the Sony which is unfortunate.
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post #1933 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:00 AM
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I did panel clear/comp cycle it twice. It didn't change anything. I only took pics from slides. Realistically, most people are going to sit on the type of content that they watch - especially if they're just watching reference material.


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I would really like to see the pictures because you are right, if you have this minor banding after the clear panel, it won't change. I would assume that this will fade like most did on the 2016 sets. As I use my set, I can see minor improvements.

Were you actually able to see the banding with content? If so, what kind? Interesting.
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post #1934 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:02 AM
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BTW, just checked the A1's motion processing and it's good. Much better than the LG.
I was wondering if you could say more here? especially given that you also have the E6 (I have the 65E6). Flatpanels has said, "Where the A1 does move past LG’s E6 is in motion handling and image processing" and I find myself fighting against buyer's remorse, not so much for the judder (I seem to have found the right tweaks), but mostly for trying to reach a compromise with blur. LG's Smooth and Clear settings, while eliminating blur, introduce too many other unwanted artifacts. Still trying to find the sweet spot!

I'm trying to decide on whether or not it's worth my while to exchange my 65E6 for an A1E (though I do believe I would miss the 3D I have come to love so much on the E6, after migrating from a Sony 52HX929's active 3D). I suppose a more direct question would be, now that you have been observing the A1E more, and as much as you're able, would you recommend such an exchange? Thanks for any perspective you can offer.
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post #1935 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:06 AM
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I was wondering if you could say more here? especially given that you also have the E6 (I have the 65E6). Flatpanels has said, "Where the A1 does move past LG’s E6 is in motion handling and image processing" and I find myself fighting against buyer's remorse, not so much for the judder (I seem to have found the right tweaks), but mostly for trying to reach a compromise with blur. LG's Smooth and Clear settings, while eliminating blur, introduce too many other unwanted artifacts. Still trying to find the sweet spot!

I'm trying to decide on whether or not it's worth my while to exchange my 65E6 for an A1E (though I do believe I would miss the 3D I have come to love so much on the E6, after migrating from a Sony 52HX929's active 3D). I suppose a more direct question would be, now that you have been observing the A1E more, and as much as you're able, would you recommend such an exchange? Thanks for any perspective you can offer.
If you love the 3D , I would definitely say NO
We dont know if 3D will ever come back.. and there is more 3D movies than 4k movies
So giving up on this for minor improvements? But thats my opinion, and I dont even like 3d so much
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post #1936 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:06 AM
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I was wondering if you could say more here? especially given that you also have the E6 (I have the 65E6). Flatpanels has said, "Where the A1 does move past LG’s E6 is in motion handling and image processing" and I find myself fighting against buyer's remorse, not so much for the judder (I seem to have found the right tweaks), but mostly for trying to reach a compromise with blur. LG's Smooth and Clear settings, while eliminating blur, introduce too many other unwanted artifacts. Still trying to find the sweet spot!

I'm trying to decide on whether or not it's worth my while to exchange my 65E6 for an A1E (though I do believe I would miss the 3D I have come to love so much on the E6, after migrating from a Sony 52HX929's active 3D). I suppose a more direct question would be, now that you have been observing the A1E more, and as much as you're able, would you recommend such an exchange? Thanks for any perspective you can offer.
I haven't done a lot of motion testing but for sure the motion is way better on the A1 than my E6 so if you are sensitive to motion, then the A1 pretty much solves the problem to the best that they can do with these panels right now. As far as exchanging the E6, unless you are sensitive to motion, I would stay with the E6 and not go through the expense, I just don't see that much difference to dump a perfectly good E6.

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post #1937 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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It's not. The only way to get YouTube hdr on 2017 Sony is with a chrome cast ultra. People are speculating that YouTube hdr update will come alongside the Dolby vision firmware update this summer.
So the Flatpanel review says that the A1 has VP9/2. Isn't that what you need to play YouTube HDR?
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post #1938 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:15 AM
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I would really like to see the pictures because you are right, if you have this minor banding after the clear panel, it won't change. I would assume that this will fade like most did on the 2016 sets. As I use my set, I can see minor improvements.



Were you actually able to see the banding with content? If so, what kind? Interesting.

Movies mastered just about black such as Lion and Arrival. Pans were not necessary. You could see the bands when the camera was stationary.

But like I said, just because I had the problem doesn't mean that you will. Everything else about the set was great, I just don't feel like playing panel lottery and risk having to do more exchanges.


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post #1939 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:17 AM
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You have to use the built in YouTube app to use vp 9.2

Sony A1E
Triton one
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post #1940 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:31 AM
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How is Sony's exchange policy with TVs?

After the headaches LG caused me I am not sure if I want to spend the extra to buy from Amazon/Best Buy for easy exchanges if needed, or buy from CP and save some money, but have to deal with Sony if I have any problems.
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post #1941 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:35 AM
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Two questions:

1. I thought at CES there was an A1E (more expensive with acoustic surface) and A1 (cheaper without acoustic surface) - is this true?

2. 120Hz native input and display?
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post #1942 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:39 AM
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So the Flatpanel review says that the A1 has VP9/2. Isn't that what you need to play YouTube HDR?
it is. I was going off of Sony's CES announcement/a1 reveal where they made it sound like YouTube hdr was coming along with the androidTV 7 and dolbyvision updates.

That is great if the A1 is coming out of the box with YouTube HDR already enabled.
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post #1943 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 07:59 AM
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I haven't done a lot of motion testing but for sure the motion is way better on the A1 than my E6 so if you are sensitive to motion, then the A1 pretty much solves the problem to the best that they can do with these panels right now. As far as exchanging the E6, unless you are sensitive to motion, I would stay with the E6 and not go through the expense, I just don't see that much difference to dump a perfectly good E6.
you mean this without turning on any motion enhancement?
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<--- Just click my name and click send private message.
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post #1945 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 08:16 AM
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I haven't done a lot of motion testing but for sure the motion is way better on the A1 than my E6 so if you are sensitive to motion, then the A1 pretty much solves the problem to the best that they can do with these panels right now. As far as exchanging the E6, unless you are sensitive to motion, I would stay with the E6 and not go through the expense, I just don't see that much difference to dump a perfectly good E6.
Even in a pitch black room during dark scenes?

I was under the impression these sets had significantly better 0-5% transition due to the better processing. My E6 can't display 1% to 1.5% gray without washing the entire picture out, so I have to crush my blacks even with a 20 point calibration.

Does the A1 have this problem? Are you able to to see a smooth bar 18+ transition on the AVS disc?
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post #1946 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 08:29 AM
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So the Flatpanel review says that the A1 has VP9/2. Isn't that what you need to play YouTube HDR?
This page has links to 2 VP9profile2 HDR videos on it - http://kodi.wiki/view/Samples

You can try downloading them to USB stick and playing them off that on the A1. It should definitely give you an HDR notification when playing from USB stick.
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post #1947 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 08:36 AM
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Been following this thread closely for a while now. Sounds like this "should" be my next OLED choice, but given that it'll very likely be wall mounted (my preference) that may prevent me from going with the Sony which is unfortunate.
This unit can be wall-mounted.

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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
This unit can be wall-mounted.

Correct, but wouldn't it stick out much further (come off the wall) than normal units given the way the stand would have to fold down?
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post #1949 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 08:51 AM
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Question to the owners: Is it possible to play bluray iso images? I remember someone mentioned something like that...

Thanks for testing!

Cheers,
Emes
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post #1950 of 6046 Old 04-21-2017, 10:05 AM
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