2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 260 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7771 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Yeah I know 1 hour is not the time to evaluate but this is my 3rd, I don't have high hopes for this one.


Like many say on here, it's a lottery, you can get a worse one. I never win $#!+ playing the lottery so I don't plan on another unless a disaster happens.


My 50" Panasonic Plasma in the LR stops me from regular LED so it is what it is. At some point you have to find peace or be miserable forever. There is no perfect TV...

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post #7772 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by StephanFL-US View Post
Like many say on here, it's a lottery, you can get a worse one. I never win $#!+ playing the lottery so I don't plan on another unless a disaster happens.


My 50" Panasonic Plasma in the LR stops me from regular LED so it is what it is. At some point you have to find peace or be miserable forever. There is no perfect TV...
Yeah My 2nd set had significantly less banding but a giant rectangle in the middle and a giant blotch on the right side of the screen; My first had solid prison bars. I don't need perfect, I just want something that isn't painfully visible in my day to day content. Definitely no such this as a perfect TV.

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post #7773 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 08:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FromPlasma2LCD View Post
You're not going to see bands at 20% gray uniformity slide. Try a 5% slide and you will see bands. Or if you don't or never saw them don't use a 5% or you will never be able to unsee them. Double edged sword.
No i did do 5% too not present on 55 inch.. I know I wish I never read about it now it can't be unseen on 65 incher ughhhhh
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post #7774 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 08:32 PM
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I wish I never read about it now it can't be unseen on 65 incher ughhhhh


I hear ya. Need to find peace and accept imperfection in the world of silicon...

LG OLED65C7P - Pioneer VSX-1131 AVR (no Dolby Vision support at this time)
LG UP970 4k DV player - Samsung 4k player - Logitech Harmony Elite
Infinity Studio Monitors (bought 2000) - 15" woofers, 2 mids, 1 tweeter - Pioneer SP-C22 center spkr - SVS PB-1000 sub
2 Polk f/x500 surround (bought around 2001) - 2 Polk OWM3 high atmos
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post #7775 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
Copying some else's setting is probably the worse you can do. Every TV is different, just like a human being

nah it's not the worst thing to do as a temporary fix...nothing wrong with using someone's calibration settings as a short term solution until you get your set calibrated...those settings are still probably better then any out of the box ones
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post #7776 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Averhoeven View Post

I want to make sure I'm interpreting Rtings lag timings correctly first though. These are for the C7, but the B7 should be identical. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/...comparison_831
This is saying that in game mode, 4K with HDR on has a lag of 21.1ms, but 4K with HDR outside of game mode is more like 63ms, correct? What do I lose by putting it into game mode? Why would I not just calibrate everything in game mode, even for movies etc? Or is there some distinct loss in HDR range or something inherent in putting it into game mode? I assume there has to be some sort of trade-off to essentially triple the lag. Also, I've calibrated (well, a basic home calibration, not professional) my last TV (Panasonic ST30 plasma) before, but that was just HD and no HDR. Are there newer calibration screens for HDR and 4K I should be using?

Thanks for the help!
game mode turns off many of the post processing features to decrease perceived game input lag. Now I say perceived because some people can't tell the difference between 20ms and 40ms. You should always use game mode when gaming. Input lag is the time between when you press a button or move the analog stick and the action is performed on screen. fighting games or racing games and especially platforming games where precision is important, it's almost impossible to play with high input lag. Now something cool to try is put in uncharted and use cinema mode and turn interpolation on, aka soap opera effect, aka trumotion. Or basically any game that's in 30 frames per second and it will make the game look like it's in 60 frames per second and so smooth. It will however add some interpolation artifacts depending on how much interpolation you add. I actually played Uncharted lost legacy in cinema mode with interpolation on and it was amazing. The increased input lag wasn't that bad for me because that game has auto aim and it's basically button mashing but boy oh boy does fake 60 fps look good on uncharted. Now for movies and tv shows input lag doesn't matter. For movies and tv shows you want all the processing options available to make the picture as real, 3dish and as beautiful as possible.

TL: DR you should always use game mode for games because low input lag equals instant action on screen after a button press. Input lag doesn't matter for movies or shows and you want as many processing options as possible for the best picture.
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post #7777 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 09:53 PM
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as far as bias lighting...does it matter the color you have painted the back wall (behind the TV)?...my paint color is a light blue/green and someone once told me that adding bias lighting would make it look worse because the color will bounce off the back wall
Not at all. Plus you can alter colors with this strip also. i say grab em, you wont regret doing so.
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post #7778 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Averhoeven View Post
. Took a bit of fiddling since I'm still researching a 4K replacement for my receiver (currently a Denon 2112CI, thinking an X2300 or 3300) to get the audio working as intended over ARC, but its all good now. Just gotta sit and take the time to do a little basic calibrating now.



Thanks for the help!
Just a suggestion. You can just run optical out from TV to in on AVR to get sound. This is what i did with my Yamaha RXA1000 as it had all the bells and whistles yet regrettably lacked 4K support. So that's what i did in the meantime until I grab a new AVR. Works great. You may have already known this, yet i thought i would mention it just in case. Enjoy your new set.
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post #7779 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
Had the same issue using my xbx1s. Could not get audio in perfect sync so I connected optical cable from the xbx1 directly to my receiver and the HDMI from xbx1 to my b7. PERFECTO......
Thanks--I'll try optical
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post #7780 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
My 3rd C7, no comp cycles and maybe an hour on it:


No luck at all....
Im a noob owner of 65C7 build date 8/17, I had it since 08/9/17, I keep reading about 5% jail bar and today got a chance to do it , Im still with in 30 days return window from frys electronics, is this a keeper? Thanks
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post #7781 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince2008 View Post
Im a noob owner of 65C7 build date 8/17, I had it since 08/9/17, I keep reading about 5% jail bar and today got a chance to do it , Im still with in 30 days return window from frys electronics, is this a keeper? Thanks
That's a keeper...enjoy it!
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post #7782 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 10:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vince2008 View Post
Im a noob owner of 65C7 build date 8/17, I had it since 08/9/17, I keep reading about 5% jail bar and today got a chance to do it , Im still with in 30 days return window from frys electronics, is this a keeper? Thanks
Can't see re-upload
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post #7783 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Datagg View Post
Just a suggestion. You can just run optical out from TV to in on AVR to get sound. This is what i did with my Yamaha RXA1000 as it had all the bells and whistles yet regrettably lacked 4K support. So that's what i did in the meantime until I grab a new AVR. Works great. You may have already known this, yet i thought i would mention it just in case. Enjoy your new set.
Thanks. That's essentially what I'm doing. All my 4K sources (XB1S, PC and PS4 Pro) are hooked up directly to the TV. I'm then using the long HDMI cable that used to run most of those sources from the receiver to the TV to run data in the opposite direction taking advantage of the ARC inputs on both the receiver and TV. 1080p sources are staying connected to the receiver for now. It's a little convoluted and really made me toy with my Harmony setups again, but it works as a temporary measure since I'm likely moving soon anyway. The biggest downside is that, in order for ARC to work, I had to remove the splitter coming off the receiver which essentially prevents my projector from having a source (hence wanting a receiver like the x2300 with dual HDMI outs). In the meantime until I replace the receiver, I guess I'll hot swap the HDMI cables when I wanna project something/watch 3D.
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post #7784 of 11061 Old 08-30-2017, 11:13 PM
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With regards to the many posts about OLED Light, Brightness and Contrast, here are some things to consider

For SDR only

OLED Light controls the overall light output of the pixels, the luminance of the panel. This one is a matter of preference, room condition etc. Set this one first to your liking, then do Brightness and Contrast.

Brightness controls your black level. Set it too low and you will be crushing your blacks, losing near black details. Set it too high and your 0% black will be grey-ish.

Contrast controls your white level. Set it too low and your whites will be light grey. Set it to high and you will clip near 100% white details.

On picture presets ISF Expert Bright and Dark, Brightness and Contrast values are very good out of the box. But if you want them to be precise for your set (without calibration equipment), you can download the AVS HD 709 calibration patterns and either burn that on a disc or put it on a USB stick. Use the Basic Settings\Black Clipping pattern for setting Brightness and the Basic Settings\White Clipping pattern for setting Contrast.

For HDR, leave the above settings at their default values otherwise you're messing with the set's tone mapping.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the clarification.

I'll rephrase my question then:

"Hmmm... I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean that HDR looks "correct" at the 100 OLED setting?

Also, if you turn the TV's b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ OLED setting down, of course the highlights will get less
b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ light output as well. That should be expected and not a problem, right? You can't have both max b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ light output for highlights and less overall b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ light output at the same time..."
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post #7785 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FromPlasma2LCD View Post
game mode turns off many of the post processing features to decrease perceived game input lag. Now I say perceived because some people can't tell the difference between 20ms and 40ms. You should always use game mode when gaming. Input lag is the time between when you press a button or move the analog stick and the action is performed on screen. fighting games or racing games and especially platforming games where precision is important, it's almost impossible to play with high input lag. Now something cool to try is put in uncharted and use cinema mode and turn interpolation on, aka soap opera effect, aka trumotion. Or basically any game that's in 30 frames per second and it will make the game look like it's in 60 frames per second and so smooth. It will however add some interpolation artifacts depending on how much interpolation you add. I actually played Uncharted lost legacy in cinema mode with interpolation on and it was amazing. The increased input lag wasn't that bad for me because that game has auto aim and it's basically button mashing but boy oh boy does fake 60 fps look good on uncharted. Now for movies and tv shows input lag doesn't matter. For movies and tv shows you want all the processing options available to make the picture as real, 3dish and as beautiful as possible.

TL: DR you should always use game mode for games because low input lag equals instant action on screen after a button press. Input lag doesn't matter for movies or shows and you want as many processing options as possible for the best picture.
cinema mode with interpolation

are you using console mode icon ??
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post #7786 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 12:29 AM
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http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oled

Update 04/24/2017: Turning on PC mode on any of the picture modes will result in input lag of about 21ms

so if when i will receive my xbox one x on gaiming mode on 4k hdr 60hz and not turn on the pc mode on console i will still have input lag 21ms >/???

vs

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled5...1705074461.htm

This [PC] relabelling trick didn’t lower input lag in HDR, so to get a figure of 21ms, it’s necessary to enable [HDR Game] mode where [Colour Gamut] could be switched from “Wide” to “Auto” for more accurate colour reproduction.


so pc mode it's nothing if game mode it's not enabled and also washed out colors

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post #7787 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Averhoeven View Post
Thanks. That's essentially what I'm doing. All my 4K sources (XB1S, PC and PS4 Pro) are hooked up directly to the TV. I'm then using the long HDMI cable that used to run most of those sources from the receiver to the TV to run data in the opposite direction taking advantage of the ARC inputs on both the receiver and TV. 1080p sources are staying connected to the receiver for now. It's a little convoluted and really made me toy with my Harmony setups again, but it works as a temporary measure since I'm likely moving soon anyway. The biggest downside is that, in order for ARC to work, I had to remove the splitter coming off the receiver which essentially prevents my projector from having a source (hence wanting a receiver like the x2300 with dual HDMI outs). In the meantime until I replace the receiver, I guess I'll hot swap the HDMI cables when I wanna project something/watch 3D.
I have almost the same sources as you. XB1, PS4 and a Nvidia Shield.. All run straight to TV, nothing to AVR as far as HDMI. That way I can maintain 4K as AVR wont pass it and optical to AVR for audio. Works great and has allowed me to keep $$ so the wife don't murder me while I sleep. Eventually Ill grab a new AVR, but for now this works great.
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post #7788 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince2008 View Post
Im a noob owner of 65C7 build date 8/17, I had it since 08/9/17, I keep reading about 5% jail bar and today got a chance to do it , Im still with in 30 days return window from frys electronics, is this a keeper? Thanks
I'm pretty sure you have your picture mode setting to either Vivid or Standard. Try using one of the ISF settings and you'll see a whole new world full of jail bars, lol. I don't recommend you doing that though, after you see them for the first time you will see them forever or will find yourself looking for them when watching regular content.
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post #7789 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Nope. Playback is especially smooth, either in 24p (with TruMotion set to User with both sliders set to 0), or 60p for gaming. This is an exceptionally smooth TV.
Good to know . Guess this will be the best OLED to buy.
I like the sony's motion handling, but don't like the slanted stand and the high input lag is a dealbreaker.
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post #7790 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince2008 View Post
Im a noob owner of 65C7 build date 8/17, I had it since 08/9/17, I keep reading about 5% jail bar and today got a chance to do it , Im still with in 30 days return window from frys electronics, is this a keeper? Thanks
I would take that in a heartbeat. Keeper.

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post #7791 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 06:43 AM
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I would take that in a heartbeat. Keeper.
Same.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.

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post #7792 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 06:50 AM
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That's a keeper...enjoy it!
thanks, I'm still on firmware 03.51.30, is it worth upgrading to latest firmware, it states improvement with HDR, HLG added,primarily using this tv for HDR movies.

[03.60.09]
1. Improvements in HDR (HDR 10/ HLG)
2. Bugs fix in Dolby vision
3. Improvements in shortcut key for apps on remote controller.
4. Improvements in Dolby Atmos
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post #7793 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

I'll rephrase my question then:

"Hmmm... I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean that HDR looks "correct" at the 100 OLED setting?

Also, if you turn the TV's b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ OLED setting down, of course the highlights will get less
b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ light output as well. That should be expected and not a problem, right? You can't have both max b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ light output for highlights and less overall b̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ light output at the same time..."
I'm not sure I'm understanding the question. OLED Light, Brightness and Contrast settings should be left to their default settings for HDR10/Dolby Vision content. Unfortunatetly good info like this gets buried on a thread this big but this has been mentionned here many times. I looked real quick to find at least one reference to this and found a post by D-Nice, a well respected calibrator, stating as such.

Also
from Vincent over at hdtvtest, around the 8:30 mark, explains OLED Light with regards to Dolby Vision. Get ready to get your mind blown

I won't pretend I understand perfectly all of it, but enough to understand that those settings in HDR mode don't function like we think we do in the traditional SDR world. The defaults settings are the correct settings.
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post #7794 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 08:06 AM
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I have a 65C7 with a PS4, cable box, and Roku running through a Yamaha RX-V675. I know brightness is generally best set at 50 or 51, but if I leave it there, I end up with a lot of black crush. I've used the following youtube video to try and set the black levels.



I set the brightness so that the outside black is still pitch black, but I can see the two block and just a hint from the 1 block in a pitch black room. Using this technique for the Roku I ended up with brightness at 66 which provides great black levels and dark details (Watched the pilot of Sense 8 last night, it looked excellent). I know I should be using the Netflix app through the TV, but I didn't have time to get the audio working right, so just went with the Roku.

So is that a decent way to set the brightness level for the Roku?


I tried to set brightness with the same video on the PS4 with the youtube app, but then blacks were washed out like crazy on the Blu-Rays. I suspect I need to set the PS4 to RBG limited then set it. Is this because the TV or PS4 isn't setting the color range correctly?

I'm using ISF bright for the Roku, ISF dark for the PS4, and then cinema for TV, since that gets washed out with the brightness above 57 or so. Thankfully there are enough picture modes that I can have different settings per device.


Could this be my receiver causing this? I went through every video setting on the receiver and set it to through or direct. I still can pull up the on screen option menus, so I'm not sure if I totally disabled correctly or not.


Sorry if these are basic questions I should have figured out myself, I haven't had a ton of time to mess around with the settings. My wife doesn't get all the tinkering and just wants to watch shows. Plus we just moved, so play time is limited.


Awesome TV by the way. I haven't had the stones to pull up the 5% image yet. So far I only see a hint of red on the left side and one bar in the middle right screen. Both are rarely noticeable during actual content. During Sense 8 I think I noticed it once and that was while I was actively looking for it. It's probably not the best one out there, but I'm sticking with it.

sorry for the long post.


Edit: when setting brightness, I've been using something around OLED light 35 and contracts 80-85.

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post #7795 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 08:20 AM
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Yeah, I'm in the same boat as this guy, but I am 12-13' away typically. As much as I want an OLED, 65" at that distance is nice, but nowhere near immersive anymore.
77s are just too rich still.
All I can say is their are more than a few of XBR-75Z9D owners in that thread who have stated they would not swap for an OLED even if the cost was even........
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post #7796 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
All I can say is their are more than a few of XBR-75Z9D owners in that thread who have stated they would not swap for an OLED even if the cost was even........
I don’t blame them. I can’t get over how bad near-blacks are on the LGs. Whether Sony’s A1E is better in this regard doesn’t interest me. The LGs are just plain bad in this space, and it appears the only way to address this is to crush blacks a little to hide it.

If the prices were equal and the input latency was better on the Z9D, I think I’d swap my C7 for a Z9D in a heartbeat. At least then I wouldn’t have mosquitos all over the screen in dark scenes during Game of Thrones. You get a dark scene with some brighter highlights in a section of the display and it’s just plain ugly. The amount of noise is staggering. If the A1E doesn’t suffer from this issue due to better processing, you should buy that TV if you’re not a gamer and can live with the joke of a stand.

I’m sure many will say get the LG professionally calibrated. Maybe this fixes the issue. Maybe it doesn’t (I sincerely doubt it does since it appears you can only hide it by crushing blacks).. Either way, after spending this kind of money on an OLED one should not have a problem that can only be fixed by shelling out yet more money.

Last edited by WilliamG; 08-31-2017 at 09:24 AM.
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post #7797 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 09:06 AM
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I'm not sure I'm understanding the question. OLED Light, Brightness and Contrast settings should be left to their default settings for HDR10/Dolby Vision content. Unfortunatetly good info like this gets buried on a thread this big but this has been mentionned here many times. I looked real quick to find at least one reference to this and found a post by D-Nice, a well respected calibrator, stating as such.
For clarification, my query was to the studio processes going into making HDR material as everything is so new. The HDR version of Planet Earth 2 the blacks are elevated compared to the Blue Ray version of the same discs and indeed the TV broadcast versions. So much so, HDR Brightness has to be turned down 3 notches from default 50 to match the others.
As D-Nice explained you are not supposed to do this for HDR but it does make watching this particular set of documentaries a more pleasurable experience even if it is taking tone mapping slightly off default.

Other HDR and DV material I have work perfectly fine at default settings. It's just PE2 that seems a tiny bit out of whack.

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post #7798 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 09:07 AM
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http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oled

Update 04/24/2017: Turning on PC mode on any of the picture modes will result in input lag of about 21ms

so if when i will receive my xbox one x on gaiming mode on 4k hdr 60hz and not turn on the pc mode on console i will still have input lag 21ms >/???

vs

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled5...1705074461.htm

This [PC] relabelling trick didn’t lower input lag in HDR, so to get a figure of 21ms, it’s necessary to enable [HDR Game] mode where [Colour Gamut] could be switched from “Wide” to “Auto” for more accurate colour reproduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9OvPfPd8s0

so pc mode it's nothing if game mode it's not enabled and also washed out colors
PC Mode + HDR doenst work right at the momento, you get wrong/broken colors.

in PC Mode, any picture mode its 21 ms as long you are in SDR video.

HDR Game its the only one with 21 MS in HDR Mode, the others mode have rpetty high input lag.
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post #7799 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 09:28 AM
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I have a 65C7 with a PS4, cable box, and Roku running through a Yamaha RX-V675. I know brightness is generally best set at 50 or 51, but if I leave it there, I end up with a lot of black crush. I've used the following youtube video to try and set the black levels.

New TV?


It takes about 4 comp cycles (16hrs) from new before brightness settles down and then a setting of 51 will be correct for normal content.
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post #7800 of 11061 Old 08-31-2017, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by emiller1181 View Post
I have a 65C7 with a PS4, cable box, and Roku running through a Yamaha RX-V675. I know brightness is generally best set at 50 or 51, but if I leave it there, I end up with a lot of black crush. I've used the following youtube video to try and set the black levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6T7aHsd54


I set the brightness so that the outside black is still pitch black, but I can see the two block and just a hint from the 1 block in a pitch black room. Using this technique for the Roku I ended up with brightness at 66 which provides great black levels and dark details (Watched the pilot of Sense 8 last night, it looked excellent). I know I should be using the Netflix app through the TV, but I didn't have time to get the audio working right, so just went with the Roku.

So is that a decent way to set the brightness level for the Roku?


I tried to set brightness with the same video on the PS4 with the youtube app, but then blacks were washed out like crazy on the Blu-Rays. I suspect I need to set the PS4 to RBG limited then set it. Is this because the TV or PS4 isn't setting the color range correctly?

I'm using ISF bright for the Roku, ISF dark for the PS4, and then cinema for TV, since that gets washed out with the brightness above 57 or so. Thankfully there are enough picture modes that I can have different settings per device.


Could this be my receiver causing this? I went through every video setting on the receiver and set it to through or direct. I still can pull up the on screen option menus, so I'm not sure if I totally disabled correctly or not.


Sorry if these are basic questions I should have figured out myself, I haven't had a ton of time to mess around with the settings. My wife doesn't get all the tinkering and just wants to watch shows. Plus we just moved, so play time is limited.


Awesome TV by the way. I haven't had the stones to pull up the 5% image yet. So far I only see a hint of red on the left side and one bar in the middle right screen. Both are rarely noticeable during actual content. During Sense 8 I think I noticed it once and that was while I was actively looking for it. It's probably not the best one out there, but I'm sticking with it.

sorry for the long post.


Edit: when setting brightness, I've been using something around OLED light 35 and contracts 80-85.
Hey there, I had the same problem with my Roku 3 watching GOT on HBOGO. Blacks were getting crushed. Would have to bring up brightness to around 69. Turned out to be my Roku because watching the same program on the same app with Apple TV I did not have to increase brightness.
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