Panasonic TH-42PA20 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 08:54 AM
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Wouldn't it be nice if Panasonic INFORMED THEIR DAMN CSR's so we could get the info!
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post #182 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 10:18 AM
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The 720p issue described above with the pass-through mode is solved by sending all HD at 1080i and then using S-video to get the 480i. Not too tricky. Maybe not perfect, but the black bars and such and lack of stretch modes is not an actual problem.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #183 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jperkins
MarkMSM, you make an excellent point. Currently, I am leaning toward the October release but will wait until more information is available on the PQ of 720p.

What HD STB are you using that enables passthrough?

Thank you.

I have the Pace DC-550HD.

http://www.pacemicro.com/products/products.asp?id=550

Time Warner/Brighthouse Networks replaced my Scientific Atlanta 3100HD with this new model. The Pace box blows away the SA 3100 HD. It gives me a lot of flexibility
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post #184 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
The 720p issue described above with the pass-through mode is solved by sending all HD at 1080i and then using S-video to get the 480i. Not too tricky. Maybe not perfect, but the black bars and such and lack of stretch modes is not an actual problem.

Rogo, for me this would be a problem. That means I would have to switch video inputs between S-Video and Component, just to switch channels from an HD channel to an SD Channel. I don't want to have to train everyone in my house to switch video inputs just to change channels. Right now it works seamlessly. I get all channels (SD & HD) via one video input.

Unless someone can figure out a way to program each channel or a range of channels to a particluar video input (For example. SD channels from 2-100 = use S-Video, HD channels from 100-105 use Component or DVI) this would be a problem in my opinion.
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post #185 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jasonbanks
Matt, no, the only player that I know that can output a native 1:1 is the Bravo D1 which has a specific setting to output 852x480. However, there seems to be an issue with it where the picture is dark. A progressive player outputs 480 horizontal lines, but not 852 vertical. My guess is a progressive player outputs either 640x480 or 702x480.
jasonbanks,
it only means that Bravo is scaling DVD material to 852x480. If Bravo's scaler is better than plasma's scaler this is good. if plasma's scaler is better than the Bravo's scaler this is not good regardless of "native" or "non-native" output of Bravo. What's the "native" resolution of DVD material?

Andrzej
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post #186 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkMSM
Rogo, for me this would be a problem. That means I would have to switch video inputs between S-Video and Component, just to switch channels from an HD channel to an SD Channel. I don't want to have to train everyone in my house to switch video inputs just to change channels. Right now it works seamlessly.

Unless someone can figure out a way to program each channel or a range of channels to a particluar video input (For example. SD channels from 2-100 = use S-Video, HD channels from 100-105 use Component or DVI) this would be a problem in my opinion.
MarkMSM,
I recommend buying a learning remote control with nice LCD display (MX-500 is popular choice here and is ~$100) and setting up macros. That's what I've done for my family. They press just one button to turn the whole HT on (or off) and only one button (clearly labeled HiDef on the LCD display) to watch HD channels. Same for SD channels. Pressing one button activates a macro that, among other things, also switches video inputs on my plasma from composite (which I use for SD) to VGA (for HD).

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post #187 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 11:04 AM
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Andrzej,

I have Philips Pronto TSU3000 NG.

Yes, I can set up and HD icon and an SD icon, but it's still a big pain in my opinion. Once a channel is tuned and a video input is selected via a macro, there's no easy way to switch from an HD channel to an SD channel without changing inputs manually or re-running a macro. It's not seamless.

Right now I can see every channel via compenent, and I have complete aspect ratio control on all of them to get rid of black bars.
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post #188 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andrzej
jasonbanks,
it only means that Bravo is scaling DVD material to 852x480. If Bravo's scaler is better than plasma's scaler this is good. if plasma's scaler is better than the Bravo's scaler this is not good regardless of "native" or "non-native" output of Bravo. What's the "native" resolution of DVD material?

Andrzej
I was just making the point of the Bravo D1 being able to deliver actual native rate to the Panasonic in response to Zamboni Matt's question of a 480p player sending native. I am not making any claim that it's better coming from the Bravo, just that it is the only player I know capable of it.
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post #189 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkMSM
Andrzej,

I have Philips Pronto TSU3000 NG.

Yes, I can set up and HD icon and an SD icon, but it's still a big pain in my opinion. Once a channel is tuned and a video input is selected via a macro, there's no easy way to switch from an HD channel to an SD channel without changing inputs manually or re-running a macro. It's not seamless.

Right now I can see every channel via compenent, and I have complete aspect ratio control on all of them to get rid of black bars.
Hmm. It seems to be seamless for my family...
One button to switch from SD to HD (VGA) and one button to switch from HD to SD (composite or s-video if you prefer). Is it really such a big pain?

Andrzej
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post #190 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkMSM
ChrisDixon,

Right now, I have my STB configured to "Pass" the signal natively to my Plasma and let the Panny scale. The big benefit here is that I can use "Just" mode (non-linear stretch) on all channels except the ones broadcasting 720p and 1080i. (in those cases the aspect is locked to FULL). Another plus is the content is only scaled once.

If I set my STB to 1080i instead of pass, then I can watch the 720p content scaled up to 1080i, then down to 480p, but I can't use Just mode on any channel (even the non high def. ones since everything is scaled to 1080i. I would be stuck with black bars for all 4:3 content. My STB has a linear stretch mode and Zoom, but they kind of stink.

.
The solution here would be to get either the Sony or Zenith HD STBs which DO allow you scale from within the box even when set to output everything at 1080i. The box will obviously not stretch true 1080i programming but will do the Panaroma stretch of 480i channels output at 1080i. The Panaroma mode is very close to the Just mode of the Pannys.
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post #191 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 12:08 PM
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Has anyone hung their 42pa20u on the wall? Is the input/output area on the rear of the panel recessed? Since you have to plug straight in, does this force you to mount the plasma further from the wall? How far off the wall does the panel stick out using a flat wall mount????
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post #192 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 01:53 PM
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Andrzej,

It's not a huge deal, just a matter of inconviennce. There is another step involved just to change from an HD channel to an SD channel.

There's also the potential issue of PQ degredation from 720p->1080i->480p scaling if you set your STB to 1080i for everything.

I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth the trouble to exchange my PD3 for the 20AU or just keep it. I like they way it works now.

Ken Ross,

It's not really a matter for me of buying a new HD STB, I have to use what the cable company gives me.
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post #193 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 04:05 PM
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jasonbanks,

Thanks for you input on this matter- 1:1 Mapping and "Scaling". You pretty much covered all the bases- percentages, Pixel losses/fill factor, PQ loss from scaling, external scalars, HTPCs, and a few other things.

Sometimes people forget that what we have here is a Monitor first and a Video display second. The other thing is that the Standard is set for PC timings and Resolutions, thus some of the issues we are experiencing today when displaying Video and not being able to obtain "Native Resolution" without external help.

Native Resolution is the number rows of horizontal and vertical pixels that create the picture. The native resolution describes the actual resolution of the plasma display and not the resolution of the delivery signal. When the delivery format is higher or lower than the flat screen's native pixel resolution, the delivery signal will be converted to the plasma's native resolution through an internal converter. Generally, the closer the incoming picture signal is to the native pixel resolution on the plasma display monitor - the better the picture. For example, a VGA computer signal of 853X480 will match up perfectly with a plasma monitor with 853X480 native pixel resolution, while an XVGA signal of 1024X768 will match up better with a plasma monitor that has the higher resolution of 1024X1024. There are more considerations here that deal with the quality of the internal converter/scalar, and also whether or not the monitor is progressively scanning (853X480) or interlacing the signal (1024X1024). All 42" inch plasma display monitors are HDTV ready, while none will show the true HDTV signals of 1080i. However, they will benefit from the better signal and show something very close.

The options available for native resolution include: 1024x1024, 1024x768, 1280x768, 1365x768, 640x480, 825x480, 853x480.

I think this falls with-in what you have already explained in your previous post.

Dave

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post #194 of 211 Old 07-23-2003, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkMSM
It's not really a matter for me of buying a new HD STB, I have to use what the cable company gives me.
Sorry Mark, I didn't realize you were talking about a cable box. I guess I didn't read the entire thread to catch that.
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post #195 of 211 Old 07-24-2003, 07:43 AM
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w/ this new Panny? Would you be kind enough to tell me how PQ is?
Thanks, Tom
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post #196 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 08:44 AM
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Any 42PA20 owners care to comment on this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=283331

Sounds like a bug.
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post #197 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 09:43 AM
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I don't think is a bug in my opionion Panasonic try to separate between Consumer version as the regular TV if you own the Panny TV menu look similar to 42PA20 and Commercial version as professional.

Rgds, Hotrsx.
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post #198 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 10:45 AM
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Brucer

Yes, that is true. The settings made in say, component1 is carried over across all inputs. In other words it is global.

I don't find this to be a problem. There are about 5 picture modes like vivid, standard, custom etc. in which settings can be saved. If you are changing to another input like composite or S-Video, just change to a different picture mode. I am using component 1 and 2 inputs only. Component 1 connected to the STB and 2 to the DVD player. I get both the SD and HD channels from the STB on one component connection.
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post #199 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 01:29 PM
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It definately seems that Panny tried to move to the "mainstream" consumer model with the PA20. This is definately not a bad thing, just takes some getting used to after having the "techy friendly" units where you had very complete control over it.

That, combined with the very nice price popping up for the PWD6 tend to make things look pretty good for the near future in plasma. We've seen indications it's going more mainstream (I especially like Gateway's commercial with the senior couple), and it looks like the prices will keep coming down. Man I wish I had replinished my savings account already. Need a grand yet or I'd be ordering the PWD6 today. Hey, maybe I should put up a website and beg for money like that other guy???

Remember, no matter where you go... You're not where you were anymore.
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post #200 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 10:03 PM
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i just saw the pa20 at a local store and i must say, the picture is fantastic.

one thing that i saw that i wanted to ask you guys.......i don't trust the sales clerk and i don't know any better so i'm coming to the experts.

so here's my question: when i asked the guy to show me the analog feed he obliged. pleasantly surprised to see that the analog stuff looked pretty good. no worse than my tube tv at home. one thing that i noticed was the 4:3 picture was slightly off center (ie the black bars on one side was thicker than the other. when i asked the guy to center the picture, he said that how the station broadcasts it sometimes. sounds kinda silly, but i'm a newbie so i don't know better.
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post #201 of 211 Old 07-25-2003, 10:33 PM
 
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If it was an analog channel its not the station broadcasting the black bars - that only happens on a digital HD channel broadcasting an upconverted 4:3 program. Perhaps it was really the latter that the salesman used? In any case the service menu hopefully provides centering and size controls to adjust it if needed.
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post #202 of 211 Old 07-26-2003, 08:59 AM
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Let me know if this is possible:

*************************

On Input 1, I will connect a VCR to the composite jack. I will use the "vivid" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

On Input 2, I will connect a LD player to the S-video jack. I will use the "standard" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

On the DVI input, I will connect a DVD player. I will use the "custom" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

*************************

Now, if I'm switching from Input 1 to Input 2, will Input 2 continue with the "vivid" setting (since that's what Input 1 was set to) or will it remember and switch to the "standard" setting that I programmed previously?

However, if I had connected that LD player above to Input 2 using the composite jack (instead of the S-video jack in the example), could I still assign the "standard" setting or would it use the "vivid" setting? If it would use the "vivid" setting, this would mean that the picture settings refer to the type of input (composite, S-video, component, etc) vs which input (1, 2, 3, etc) is used.

By the way, is it actually possible to adjust the Big5* for each picture setting (vivid, standard, custom, etc) as I have proposed above?


* The Big5: brightness, contrast, color, tint and sharpness.

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post #203 of 211 Old 07-26-2003, 01:26 PM
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Let me know if this is possible:

*************************

On Input 1, I will connect a VCR to the composite jack. I will use the "vivid" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

On Input 2, I will connect a LD player to the S-video jack. I will use the "standard" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

On the DVI input, I will connect a DVD player. I will use the "custom" setting and adjust the Big5* to get the picture properly calibrated.

*************************

Now, if I'm switching from Input 1 to Input 2, will Input 2 continue with the "vivid" setting (since that's what Input 1 was set to) or will it remember and switch to the "standard" setting that I programmed previously?

Inp2 will be Standard and maintain your Big5 setting.

However, if I had connected that LD player above to Input 2 using the composite jack (instead of the S-video jack in the example), could I still assign the "standard" setting or would it use the "vivid" setting? If it would use the "vivid" setting, this would mean that the picture settings refer to the type of input (composite, S-video, component, etc) vs which input (1, 2, 3, etc) is used.

Same as above.

By the way, is it actually possible to adjust the Big5* for each picture setting (vivid, standard, custom, etc) as I have proposed above?

Yes, and your Big5 will save.

* The Big5: brightness, contrast, color, tint and sharpness.
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post #204 of 211 Old 07-26-2003, 02:28 PM
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Based on my questions, hotrsx, you and krammer seem to disagree (at least as I see it). I guess I'll just have to wait until I can actually see and play with one of the consumer versions myself.

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #205 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 01:31 PM
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Joe Murphy Jr,

I agree with hotrsx. It will remember the setting of a particular input. So if Input1 is set to vivid and input2 to standard, it will switch back to vivid when you go back to input1.

I am sorry for creating a confusion with my previous post. I should have tested it more throughly before posting.

Thanks,
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post #206 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 05:45 PM
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Anyone come up with the service menu access yet? I have a customer who really would like a cal and as of last week (will call again tomorrow) Panny was still telling me a service manual was unavailable. Access for last year's model does not work (volume down on display for 5 seconds then depressing the status button [button with a plus sign on it]), in fact, there is no "Status" button this year.
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post #207 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 06:02 PM
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They use the same as regular Pan. TV not the Plasma do search somebody already posted.

Rgds,
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post #208 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 06:48 PM
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No problem and no harm done. I still appreciate the fact that you posted your views and gave many of us our first look (through your experiences) at this product. It's a shame that there's so much confusion with these new 42" displays.

But despite the fact that we are an impatient bunch and need to be fed constant and immediate information to satisfy our obsessions, most of the blame rests with Panasonic. Panasonic made some changes and took forever to even get this model on the website. I'm sure many would agree that the website information should come before the release of any product, not after. Surely an online manual should be available for such a product. Word of mouth (and video forums) should not be a product's main information database.

Sorry for the rant, but methinks I am not alone...

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post #209 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 07:19 PM
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I did try searching here and the spot with "Panasonic" "Panasonic Service" and "Pansonic Service Menu". Also tried both here in this thread and the overall category. Are you refrring to the time honored sleep timer, channel 124, etc? Thanks!
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post #210 of 211 Old 07-28-2003, 07:23 PM
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Yes, I did try that it works on the new consumer plasma 42PA20 same as TV, but be careful.

Rgds,
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