OLED Overhype? Are these forums only good for the enthusiasts? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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OLED Overhype? Are these forums only good for the enthusiasts?

I am new here because I haven't shopped for a TV for many years. I loved my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV. It had a great picture, great 3D, and just served its purpose. Never any issues other than slow to turn on sometimes with the remote. Anyway, when I bought a Virtual Reality Headset called an Oculus Rift, I moved my gaming desktop from my small office space to my living room. The problem that I have is that my living room couch for flat screen gaming is about 12' from the TV and the 1080P isn't cutting it anymore for my gaming needs. So I started investigating new TV technology via Consumer Reports to learn about OLED versus LED/QLED.

Anyway, I narrowed my choices for 75" or so to the new Sony Z9D, Samsung Q9, and LG G6P. I was shocked by just how high these prices were being my Pioneer at the time was the top of the bunch and I bought it for about 7K. I decided to read tons of thoughts online about all 3 TVs and scanned these forums. The overwhelming consensus was that OLED was the way to go. I would just patiently wait until a major holiday or BLack Friday to make a purchase.

Yesterday, I decided to visit a Best Buy where I could at least look at the 65" version of the Sony and Samsung and compare that against what LG had for OLED in the store. I had two of my friends with me. They don't follow technology at all and none of us heard of terms like Clouding, Gamma, Calibrators or any thing similiar that people would analyze here in these forums. All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough. All 3 of use felt the Samsung and Sony were by far the better options. I know I'll get stones thrown at me, but I was surprised about how stunning the picture of the Samsung Q9 was and in our eyes the Sony was 2nd and only every so slightly less stunning. I tried walking at angles and yes, the OLED maintained the colors great. However, we discussed my couch and room and we were like who gives a crap. Who sits at those extreme angles and who would even care? We generally sit in the middle or a few feet off center. Nothing that would be like OMG, those colors are horrible and this TV is unwatchable. The reality is the brightness and sharpness blew us away. Further research showed me that for gaming and what I learned here about Input Lag (as I am a big gamer) that the Q9 was actually pretty good. I watch movies in dark conditions and light conditions depending on the time of day. I get glare from windows during the day. Maybe OLED would be better for watching in the complete dark...but I find it hard to believe if I'm watching QLED in the complete dark I'll be like...wow, I wish I had better blacks. Average consumers don't think like that. My friends had no idea what I was talking about.

Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.
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post #2 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:38 AM
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It's funny I keep hearing that all around on the interwebs.

QLED is absolute trash. I think someone is paying Best Buy money to make these QLED sets look better next to LG then they actually are. Sony uses LG OLED panels in their sets.

When I walk into best buy they always have a sales rep from Sony and Samsung hanging around the on the floor, never seen one from LG. They must have a personal relationship with these companies. Also Samsung is in court right now in Korea for greasing palms so I wouldn't be surprised if they are paying someone off.

The fact of the matter is that OLED is superior to QLED. I have an OLED at home and it is bright and the colours are amazing on it. I also use it as a computer monitor and it looks far superior to my last high end LCD panel. I have not see picture like this since plasma TVs.

One thing you have to remember is that OLED brightness fades over time, like CRT and Plasma.

2016 was the year of LG OLED there is a reason these sets were coveted as highly as they were. They are truly amazing panels.
Go with Sony or LG. Ignore that LCD trash known as QLED. Also compare the warranty on Sony and LG. LG is not known for honoring their warranties easily.

If buying OLED get the extended BB warranty.

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OLED is a game changer.

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post #3 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:44 AM
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I don't know if it's over-hype or not but it does bring up the idea we all have our opinions what the best picture is for us. That being said, I just don't understand anybody saying OLEDs come as dull even in a big box store? Coming from plasma I find these TV's eye searingly bright. No wonder plasma had such a tough time in these stores. Oh and one more thing, a site like this is not the average consumer. Each pixel must be studied and deemed perfect before it passes the test. I'd have it no other way.

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post #4 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:44 AM
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Also to note I game on my OLED a lot and I have no issues with it at all it actually looks amazing, better than my 2016 LCD/LED panel. Nice thing about the OLED TV I can watch it even when the sun is directly shining on the screen. Since it emits it's own light sunlight doesn't wash the picture out like an LED panel.

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post #5 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.
The 2017 LG OLEDs have an input lag of 21ms in all 1080p and 4k modes (4:4:4 and all that stuff) if you are in game mode and you can even exit game mode and go to "pc mode" and use ISF Dark setting which make the PQ better than game mode and still be at 21ms.

For the input lag, the 2017 LG OLED cannot be beaten except by maybe Vizio LCDs.

For the brightness, it depends if you will use the TV in a complete dark room, relatively dark room, modrately light room or very bright room. In a complete dark room you will think the OLED is too bright. Probably the same thing if relatively dark. If there is lots of light, especially outdoor light, the OLED might not cut it but I can't say for sure as I don't view my TVs in such lighting.

We all have different opinions but judging by store demos is not a good idea as you do not know how each one is set in the settings. For example, I saw a Samsung QLED , I think it was a Q7P, and thought it looked very ordinary and had an overprocessed picture.
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post #6 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 08:34 AM
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The average guy probably goes into a store and picks the brightest TV with the most oversaturated colors (say hello vivid mode) and thinks it's the best one, which is sad. I know alot of people who are like that.

In a brightly lit store with bright and oversaturated demo videos playing the Oled will look dull compared to the Qled.

In a darkened room with real movies playing the Qled will look dull compared to the Oled.
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post #7 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
I am new here because I haven't shopped for a TV for many years. I loved my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV. It had a great picture, great 3D, and just served its purpose. Never any issues other than slow to turn on sometimes with the remote. Anyway, when I bought a Virtual Reality Headset called an Oculus Rift, I moved my gaming desktop from my small office space to my living room. The problem that I have is that my living room couch for flat screen gaming is about 12' from the TV and the 1080P isn't cutting it anymore for my gaming needs. So I started investigating new TV technology via Consumer Reports to learn about OLED versus LED/QLED.



Anyway, I narrowed my choices for 75" or so to the new Sony Z9D, Samsung Q9, and LG G6P. I was shocked by just how high these prices were being my Pioneer at the time was the top of the bunch and I bought it for about 7K. I decided to read tons of thoughts online about all 3 TVs and scanned these forums. The overwhelming consensus was that OLED was the way to go. I would just patiently wait until a major holiday or BLack Friday to make a purchase.



Yesterday, I decided to visit a Best Buy where I could at least look at the 65" version of the Sony and Samsung and compare that against what LG had for OLED in the store. I had two of my friends with me. They don't follow technology at all and none of us heard of terms like Clouding, Gamma, Calibrators or any thing similiar that people would analyze here in these forums. All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough. All 3 of use felt the Samsung and Sony were by far the better options. I know I'll get stones thrown at me, but I was surprised about how stunning the picture of the Samsung Q9 was and in our eyes the Sony was 2nd and only every so slightly less stunning. I tried walking at angles and yes, the OLED maintained the colors great. However, we discussed my couch and room and we were like who gives a crap. Who sits at those extreme angles and who would even care? We generally sit in the middle or a few feet off center. Nothing that would be like OMG, those colors are horrible and this TV is unwatchable. The reality is the brightness and sharpness blew us away. Further research showed me that for gaming and what I learned here about Input Lag (as I am a big gamer) that the Q9 was actually pretty good. I watch movies in dark conditions and light conditions depending on the time of day. I get glare from windows during the day. Maybe OLED would be better for watching in the complete dark...but I find it hard to believe if I'm watching QLED in the complete dark I'll be like...wow, I wish I had better blacks. Average consumers don't think like that. My friends had no idea what I was talking about.



Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.


my first question is do you work for Samsung ?


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post #8 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
The average guy probably goes into a store and picks the brightest TV with the most oversaturated colors (say hello vivid mode) and thinks it's the best one, which is sad. I know alot of people who are like that.

In a brightly lit store with bright and oversaturated demo videos playing the Oled will look dull compared to the Qled.

In a darkened room with real movies playing the Qled will look dull compared to the Oled.
Well, when more than 80% of average consumers watch their displays with some ambient light in the room, it is the correct choice for them.

It is fairly simple. If you do mostly blacked out room movie viewing, are not into HDR and are satisfied with 65" go OLED.

Sony 65" 65A1E
LG 65" B/C/E/G 7 Series

If you do at least some viewing in ambient light, have a bright room, and are interested in proper HDR you will want FALD LED with Quantum Dots or phosphor coated LEDs.

70" Hisense 70H10D/Sharp 70P9500 (320 zone)
75" Sony X940E (250 zone)
75" Sony 75Z9D (628+ zone)
75" Vizio 75P (128 zone)
75" Hisense 75H10D/Sharp 75P9500 (560 zone)
85" LeEco UMAX 85Q (448 zone)

The Samsungs are way over priced, but if you can get it for 50% off the Q9 series is an option even thought it is side-lit instead of FALD.
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post #9 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
I am new here because I haven't shopped for a TV for many years. I loved my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV. It had a great picture, great 3D, and just served its purpose. Never any issues other than slow to turn on sometimes with the remote. Anyway, when I bought a Virtual Reality Headset called an Oculus Rift, I moved my gaming desktop from my small office space to my living room. The problem that I have is that my living room couch for flat screen gaming is about 12' from the TV and the 1080P isn't cutting it anymore for my gaming needs. So I started investigating new TV technology via Consumer Reports to learn about OLED versus LED/QLED.

Anyway, I narrowed my choices for 75" or so to the new Sony Z9D, Samsung Q9, and LG G6P. I was shocked by just how high these prices were being my Pioneer at the time was the top of the bunch and I bought it for about 7K. I decided to read tons of thoughts online about all 3 TVs and scanned these forums. The overwhelming consensus was that OLED was the way to go. I would just patiently wait until a major holiday or BLack Friday to make a purchase.

Yesterday, I decided to visit a Best Buy where I could at least look at the 65" version of the Sony and Samsung and compare that against what LG had for OLED in the store. I had two of my friends with me. They don't follow technology at all and none of us heard of terms like Clouding, Gamma, Calibrators or any thing similiar that people would analyze here in these forums. All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough. All 3 of use felt the Samsung and Sony were by far the better options. I know I'll get stones thrown at me, but I was surprised about how stunning the picture of the Samsung Q9 was and in our eyes the Sony was 2nd and only every so slightly less stunning. I tried walking at angles and yes, the OLED maintained the colors great. However, we discussed my couch and room and we were like who gives a crap. Who sits at those extreme angles and who would even care? We generally sit in the middle or a few feet off center. Nothing that would be like OMG, those colors are horrible and this TV is unwatchable. The reality is the brightness and sharpness blew us away. Further research showed me that for gaming and what I learned here about Input Lag (as I am a big gamer) that the Q9 was actually pretty good. I watch movies in dark conditions and light conditions depending on the time of day. I get glare from windows during the day. Maybe OLED would be better for watching in the complete dark...but I find it hard to believe if I'm watching QLED in the complete dark I'll be like...wow, I wish I had better blacks. Average consumers don't think like that. My friends had no idea what I was talking about.

Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.
If your living room is a blazing desert of fluorescent lights like the Samsung display at Best Buy is, a *cheaper* Samsung LCD might be a good option. The Samsung Q9, though, is vastly overpriced for its performance, and even for you and your friends, who like to do critical viewing on the surface of the sun at high noon, you'd be amiss to consider it. Yes, the Q9 is bright. No, it's no sharper than the LG OLEDs or the Sony OLED. And overall it is overperformed by those sets pretty handily despite being more expensive than them.

Leave it to Samsung to release a flagship TV that's worse than the flagship TV from the prior year, and costs much more than the (better) competition.

The Samsung QLED TVs are low- to mid-range products that are priced like high-end products despite their middling overall performance.

Also, the number of topics disparaging OLED from user accounts with 1-5 posts is pretty overwhelming. Why isn't there a rule that you need at least 20 posts to create a topic? Because this is clearly shilling.
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post #10 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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my first question is do you work for Samsung ?


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Can you restrain from asking stupid questions? No, I work for a large bank in their corporate risk department. Does that help lead you to your next unhelpful comment?
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post #11 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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If your living room is a blazing desert of fluorescent lights like the Samsung display at Best Buy is, a *cheaper* Samsung LCD might be a good option. The Samsung Q9, though, is vastly overpriced for its performance, and even for you and your friends, who like to do critical viewing on the surface of the sun at high noon, you'd be amiss to consider it. Yes, the Q9 is bright. No, it's no sharper than the LG OLEDs or the Sony OLED. And overall it is overperformed by those sets pretty handily despite being more expensive than them.

Leave it to Samsung to release a flagship TV that's worse than the flagship TV from the prior year, and costs much more than the (better) competition.

The Samsung QLED TVs are low- to mid-range products that are priced like high-end products despite their middling overall performance.

Also, the number of topics disparaging OLED from user accounts with 1-5 posts is pretty overwhelming. Why isn't there a rule that you need at least 20 posts to create a topic? Because this is clearly shilling.
Dude, you aren't a moderator and your comments about number of topics before someone can post has nothing to do with this thread. In addition your condescending comment about lighting is immature. You do bring up a couple of good points about pricing..which i agree with...though I think your comments about low to midrange is ridiculous and not in line with what an average person would think...supporting my thread.
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post #12 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:13 AM
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The Q9 does have some advantages, namely wider color gamut and as you noticed, much brighter screen.

avsforum actually has an ongoing review of the Q9, you can read about it here Samsung Q9 65? QLED HDR LCD TV: First Look

The last post in the thread by the author of the review states that
Quote:
Here's the short version: Best edgelit TV ever. In some ways better than an OLED, namely it leverages its brightness and color volume capabilities to great effect. It's a far better TV than some folks are willing to admit. But, it's not as good as OLED when it comes to viewing angles or deep blacks.
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All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough.

That's just showroom bias. Same way plasmas suffered in comparison to LCDs -- inside stores -- due to brightness issues. Get them home and they are as bright as you need. Nobody watches TV with blaring store lights set up (or at least I hope they don't).

You don't need to sear your retinas to get good picture quality.
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
Well, when more than 80% of average consumers watch their displays with some ambient light in the room, it is the correct choice for them.

It is fairly simple. If you do mostly blacked out room movie viewing, are not into HDR and are satisfied with 65" go OLED.

Sony 65" 65A1E
LG 65" B/C/E/G 7 Series

If you do at least some viewing in ambient light, have a bright room, and are interested in proper HDR you will want FALD LED with Quantum Dots or phosphor coated LEDs.

70" Hisense 70H10D/Sharp 70P9500 (320 zone)
75" Sony X940E (250 zone)
75" Sony 75Z9D (628+ zone)
75" Vizio 75P (128 zone)
75" Hisense 75H10D/Sharp 75P9500 (560 zone)
85" LeEco UMAX 85Q (448 zone)

The Samsungs are way over priced, but if you can get it for 50% off the Q9 series is an option even thought it is side-lit instead of FALD.
I agree about the price....its just for whatever reason...I loved the picture and so did my friends of the Sony and Q9. I'm going 75", not 65" and as I stated I watch things in all forms of lighting. I don't have one I do more than the other. In the day, I get a lot of ambient light. At night, I can turn off the lights and its pretty dark in the room. That's why I think I'm going to wait to see if the price drops a few thousand to a range I am comfortable with..like around 7-7500 which I think will happen if I am a bit more patient. My question to you is, if price was removed from the equation, would you not have the Samsung in your list? I just think people in these forums are ridiculously biased and far removed from the reality of the average consumer.
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post #15 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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It's funny I keep hearing that all around on the interwebs.

QLED is absolute trash. I think someone is paying Best Buy money to make these QLED sets look better next to LG then they actually are. Sony uses LG OLED panels in their sets.

When I walk into best buy they always have a sales rep from Sony and Samsung hanging around the on the floor, never seen one from LG. They must have a personal relationship with these companies. Also Samsung is in court right now in Korea for greasing palms so I wouldn't be surprised if they are paying someone off.

The fact of the matter is that OLED is superior to QLED. I have an OLED at home and it is bright and the colours are amazing on it. I also use it as a computer monitor and it looks far superior to my last high end LCD panel. I have not see picture like this since plasma TVs.

One thing you have to remember is that OLED brightness fades over time, like CRT and Plasma.

2016 was the year of LG OLED there is a reason these sets were coveted as highly as they were. They are truly amazing panels.
Go with Sony or LG. Ignore that LCD trash known as QLED. Also compare the warranty on Sony and LG. LG is not known for honoring their warranties easily.

If buying OLED get the extended BB warranty.

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In the best buy I was able to connect with all 3 reps. What was frustrating was that I couldn't see them all side by side. I would have loved to have seen the Sony next to the Samsung. We were just not drooling in the same way over the OLEDs that technical folks and forum fanatics seem be doing around here. What I do agree with in a couple of these posts some of which are highly biased and obviously not thinking outside the box is that conditions in the store vary and content and settings do too....so what I will do is go visit a few other places in all types of conditions/variables to ensure that one best buy is overwhelming my decision. Yes, the OLED was super sharp and the picture was so very clear....but the brightness of the Sony and Samsung in our eyes...well...there was just no comparison and as a gamer the brightness trumps darkness.
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That's just showroom bias. Same way plasmas suffered in comparison to LCDs -- inside stores -- due to brightness issues. Get them home and they are as bright as you need. Nobody watches TV with blaring store lights set up (or at least I hope they don't).

You don't need to sear your retinas to get good picture quality.
The problem with what you wrote is how not practical that is. How am I supposed to get 3 TVs home to see if what went on at a Best Buy is not in line with what I would really feel if my eyes weren't viewing the TVs in the store? What I do agree with you is that I need to spend more time at a variety of stores with different lighting conditions and different setting variables to see if the advantages of OLED really are what everyone here is hyping them to be. I don't always agree with professional movie critics with movie choices and I'm certainly not going to throw my money behind overpriced technology like OLED just because some technical reviewer talks about how many zones something has. All that matters is why our eyes see and perceive and in my first venture to a store I saw no reason to drop $19,000+ dollars on a 75" LG OLED and the Samsung was more eye popping to me....not to mention the lower priced Sony which was also amazing for me to look at. Ill venture to more stores to better educate myself to see if my opinion changes.
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post #17 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:38 AM
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In the best buy I was able to connect with all 3 reps. What was frustrating was that I couldn't see them all side by side. I would have loved to have seen the Sony next to the Samsung. We were just not drooling in the same way over the OLEDs that technical folks and forum fanatics seem be doing around here. What I do agree with in a couple of these posts some of which are highly biased and obviously not thinking outside the box is that conditions in the store vary and content and settings do too....so what I will do is go visit a few other places in all types of conditions/variables to ensure that one best buy is overwhelming my decision. Yes, the OLED was super sharp and the picture was so very clear....but the brightness of the Sony and Samsung in our eyes...well...there was just no comparison and as a gamer the brightness trumps darkness.
Yup you need to go into an AV store and have them show you proper content.

Also yeah sorry but that's a non issue here, and I don't even have the brightness set to 100, lol. I'm at 50 and 65 OLED ligh. See attached, I have a huge window with lots of light no problems gaming on PC or PS4. There is a bit of reflection from an angle but head on I can game all day long.

If you need to talk yourself out of owning an OLED that's cool. But like I said QLED is a ****ty LCD panel with super saturated colours. Olso OLED panels are far superior to LCD for gaming.

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The Q9 does have some advantages, namely wider color gamut and as you noticed, much brighter screen.

avsforum actually has an ongoing review of the Q9, you can read about it here Samsung Q9 65? QLED HDR LCD TV: First Look

The last post in the thread by the author of the review states that
Thank you, thats helpful. Do we know when the rest of the review will be posted? I'm not saying that I didn't recognize in the store how clear the OLED picture was...it looked amazing clear...and yes...as I stated the viewing angles were also amazing...its just that none of that mattered to the 3 of us. The only thing that is bothering me is that I have no idea yet how I'm to test OLED versus QLED at night in my conditions to see if Deep Blacks even matters to me. I never once thought on my Plasma for the last several years that I wish my blacks were better. All I wanted was a sharper picture so I didn't feel like I was missing much from my great gaming monitor that I wouldn't be leveraging anymore. When I saw how bright and sharp the QLED was,well...we were just blown away by it and we weren't by the OLEDs. Regardless, as I've stated in a couple of posts in this thread....they have convinced me to go back to a few more stores and see if I can force other conditions to see if my eyes see something different and more in line with what the forum people salivating over OLED that are posting here are seeing....if they are seeing them at all.
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Yup you need to go into an AV store and have them show you proper content.

Also yeah sorry but that's a non issue here, and I don't even have the brightness set to 100, lol. I'm at 50 and 65 OLED ligh. See attached, I have a huge window with lots of light no problems gaming on PC or PS4. There is a bit of reflection from an angle but head on I can game all day long.

If you need to talk yourself out of owning an OLED that's cool. But like I said QLED is a ****ty LCD panel with super saturated colours. Olso OLED panels are far superior to LCD for gaming.

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Those are amazingly good pictures and I agree that the one in the light still looks bright and perhaps that would be bright enough. I'm just not sure I'm willing to shell out $19999 when it was the brightness of the QLED and SOny that struck us. Like I said, I need to test in more conditions before choosing...but the pricing for the OLEDs is astronomical (and I make 6 figures) and I just think for now the advantages for that price to get a 75" and still have the latest and greatest isn't close to what I am comfortable paying. Anyway, thank you for posting the pictures.
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post #20 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:45 AM
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Those are amazingly good pictures and I agree that the one in the light still looks bright and perhaps that would be bright enough. I'm just not sure I'm willing to shell out $19999 when it was the brightness of the QLED and SOny that struck us. Like I said, I need to test in more conditions before choosing...but the pricing for the OLEDs is astronomical (and I make 6 figures) and I just think for now the advantages for that price to get a 75" and still have the latest and greatest isn't close to what I am comfortable paying. Anyway, thank you for posting the pictures.
z9 is probably the best 75" you can get without having to take a mortgage out on your house, but it sounds like you are going to be doing some more in store testing so good luck and enjoy
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Those are amazingly good pictures and I agree that the one in the light still looks bright and perhaps that would be bright enough. I'm just not sure I'm willing to shell out $19999 when it was the brightness of the QLED and SOny that struck us. Like I said, I need to test in more conditions before choosing...but the pricing for the OLEDs is astronomical (and I make 6 figures) and I just think for now the advantages for that price to get a 75" and still have the latest and greatest isn't close to what I am comfortable paying. Anyway, thank you for posting the pictures.
For sure, that's a 65 so I'm not breaking the bank however this is probably the last TV I'll buy in the foreseeable future. This is my 4th set in 5 years, and the last.

If money is an issue get a high end LCD at 77"

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The problem with what you wrote is how not practical that is. How am I supposed to get 3 TVs home to see if what went on at a Best Buy is not in line with what I would really feel if my eyes weren't viewing the TVs in the store? What I do agree with you is that I need to spend more time at a variety of stores with different lighting conditions and different setting variables to see if the advantages of OLED really are what everyone here is hyping them to be. I don't always agree with professional movie critics with movie choices and I'm certainly not going to throw my money behind overpriced technology like OLED just because some technical reviewer talks about how many zones something has. All that matters is why our eyes see and perceive and in my first venture to a store I saw no reason to drop $19,000+ dollars on a 75" LG OLED and the Samsung was more eye popping to me....not to mention the lower priced Sony which was also amazing for me to look at. Ill venture to more stores to better educate myself to see if my opinion changes.
Go to several stores, various lighting conditions and so on, maybe it can help. But don't be surprised if every store has blaring lights/poorly set up TVs. You are correct in saying it only matters what your eyes see, but what your eyes see in a showroom usually is deceiving.

The way I approach TV buying is a bit simpler. Pick the best models within my budget (and my budget tends to be a pittance), go to store to check them out, read quality reviews, read measurements from TVs, read user reviews. If OLEDs are over your budget, problem solved, no OLED. Although if it was me, coming from plasma, I'd wait for prices to come down/get smaller model/older model OLED over any LCD.

But that's just me, doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

But do keep in mind that brightness is sort of meaningless and stores probably crank several TVs to super vibrant mode. So yeah, it may look great in the store. Bring it home and you feel like your eyeballs are burning out and you wonder why the TV looks like the colors appear radiated.

Try to compare contrast/black levels if you can in the store. Contrast is king. 4K is sort of meaningless, HDR matters, but isn't the most important factor .. it's contrast/black levels.

I ran into the same storeroom discrepancy with plasmas a couple of years ago. In-store they looked awful, all washed out, dull... I thought reviewers were crazy stating such and such a plasma was the best TV of the year, etc, beating TVs that cost several times as much.

Ended up getting a high-end Samsung plasma (last plasma model they made), looked okay in-store, but didn't overly wow me. However once I set it up at home, did some simple calibrations, it's fantastic.
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Those are amazingly good pictures and I agree that the one in the light still looks bright and perhaps that would be bright enough. I'm just not sure I'm willing to shell out $19999 when it was the brightness of the QLED and SOny that struck us. Like I said, I need to test in more conditions before choosing...but the pricing for the OLEDs is astronomical (and I make 6 figures) and I just think for now the advantages for that price to get a 75" and still have the latest and greatest isn't close to what I am comfortable paying. Anyway, thank you for posting the pictures.
OLED are the highest-end TVs for people who know specifically what they're getting in the product.

If you're not privy to seeing a difference in QLED and OLED outside of the bright picture, QLED is a great TV for your taste.

There's nothing wrong with buying a QLED.

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I don't know if it's over-hype or not but it does bring up the idea we all have our opinions what the best picture is for us. That being said, I just don't understand anybody saying OLEDs come as dull even in a big box store? Coming from plasma I find these TV's eye searingly bright. No wonder plasma had such a tough time in these stores. Oh and one more thing, a site like this is not the average consumer. Each pixel must be studied and deemed perfect before it passes the test. I'd have it no other way.
lol you made me smile about the each pixel because that is how I am with regard to the quality of my gaming or my phones :-). Anyway, perhaps the word dull was not the right word. It wasn't dull. It just wasn't what drew our attention. I agree that I need to test both in darker conditions for those times I do watch at night with the lights off (which is about once or twice a week) to see if the QLED is way too bright. Maybe the OLED in my house would be just the right brightness in all conditions. It may be all irrelevant as I'm not willing to pay $19999 for the LG which is what I must have if I jumped into a 75" OLED and I'm not willing to drop to a smaller size. If the QLED is too bright with all the lights off which isn't my normal watching conditions, wouldn't I just turn down the brightness?
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post #25 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:16 AM
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I am new here because I haven't shopped for a TV for many years. I loved my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV. It had a great picture, great 3D, and just served its purpose. Never any issues other than slow to turn on sometimes with the remote. Anyway, when I bought a Virtual Reality Headset called an Oculus Rift, I moved my gaming desktop from my small office space to my living room. The problem that I have is that my living room couch for flat screen gaming is about 12' from the TV and the 1080P isn't cutting it anymore for my gaming needs. So I started investigating new TV technology via Consumer Reports to learn about OLED versus LED/QLED.

Anyway, I narrowed my choices for 75" or so to the new Sony Z9D, Samsung Q9, and LG G6P. I was shocked by just how high these prices were being my Pioneer at the time was the top of the bunch and I bought it for about 7K. I decided to read tons of thoughts online about all 3 TVs and scanned these forums. The overwhelming consensus was that OLED was the way to go. I would just patiently wait until a major holiday or BLack Friday to make a purchase.

Yesterday, I decided to visit a Best Buy where I could at least look at the 65" version of the Sony and Samsung and compare that against what LG had for OLED in the store. I had two of my friends with me. They don't follow technology at all and none of us heard of terms like Clouding, Gamma, Calibrators or any thing similiar that people would analyze here in these forums. All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough. All 3 of use felt the Samsung and Sony were by far the better options. I know I'll get stones thrown at me, but I was surprised about how stunning the picture of the Samsung Q9 was and in our eyes the Sony was 2nd and only every so slightly less stunning. I tried walking at angles and yes, the OLED maintained the colors great. However, we discussed my couch and room and we were like who gives a crap. Who sits at those extreme angles and who would even care? We generally sit in the middle or a few feet off center. Nothing that would be like OMG, those colors are horrible and this TV is unwatchable. The reality is the brightness and sharpness blew us away. Further research showed me that for gaming and what I learned here about Input Lag (as I am a big gamer) that the Q9 was actually pretty good. I watch movies in dark conditions and light conditions depending on the time of day. I get glare from windows during the day. Maybe OLED would be better for watching in the complete dark...but I find it hard to believe if I'm watching QLED in the complete dark I'll be like...wow, I wish I had better blacks. Average consumers don't think like that. My friends had no idea what I was talking about.

Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.
Welcome to the forum. The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects.... you just proved TV manufacturing marketing right.

Now for the truth. Yes AVS is great towards enthusiast and/or people who have learned that better information can be provided via an online source instead of the typical clerks of the dying Big Box stores. I'll assume you were gravitated to the Q9 because of the luminance levels of the colors. Looks amazing, does it? Marketing did their job since this is the first year they are really being heavy handed in how's and what's done with Samsung TVs. The truth is they do not produce an accurate image.... and when I say accurate I'm speaking from the perspective of being neutral in the reproduction of the video artwork you know as broadcast, bluray, DVD, etc. They are basically making their own art with what is fed through an input. If you respect video art and those who create it, the Q9/8/7 are not for you.

If you want to make your own art or just don't give a damn about the creators of the content you watch, go for any Q series.

Not sure what you really saw in BB, but the Sonys are brighter than the Q series with regular content.... at least that is what I've seen in a home, not store, environment. They are definitely brighter with HDR content. The Q series does have better color volume. However, visibility is limited to a few seconds with regular content.... unless you love Dynamic mode.

OLEDs.... I'm not sure how or why people continue to say OLEDs are dim. It's pure ignorance. 2017 OLEDs are just as bright as their LCD counterparts outside of Vivid/Dynamic mode in a home environment with regular content. They still lack in brightness when it comes to HDR. However since HDR is still a complete unstructured mess from content creation all the way through reproduction in the home via streaming, BD and current TVs, IMO it's a very moot point.

If you sit dead on to the TV, never outside of 30 degrees, and want a 75" on a budget, your best bet is probably a Sony LCD like the 930E/940E/Z9D. If you have the cash, a 2017 77" OLED is the way to go.
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If you're buying a 75" TV, then there is no decision to make. Take the Sony Z9D, which is cheaper than the other sets you're considering, and as a bonus still has 3D, and call it a day.

It's better than the Q9 and is better than the OLED in some respects, as well. It's a better value than either at greater than 65".
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post #27 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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If you're buying a 75" TV, then there is no decision to make. Take the Sony Z9D, which is cheaper than the other sets you're considering, and as a bonus still has 3D, and call it a day.

It's better than the Q9 and is better than the OLED in some respects, as well. It's a better value than either at greater than 65".
Curious why you think the Sony is better? Is it better for gaming? I thought the input lag is better on the Q9?
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post #28 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome to the forum. The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects.... you just proved TV manufacturing marketing right.

Now for the truth. Yes AVS is great towards enthusiast and/or people who have learned that better information can be provided via an online source instead of the typical clerks of the dying Big Box stores. I'll assume you were gravitated to the Q9 because of the luminance levels of the colors. Looks amazing, does it? Marketing did their job since this is the first year they are really being heavy handed in how's and what's done with Samsung TVs. The truth is they do not produce an accurate image.... and when I say accurate I'm speaking from the perspective of being neutral in the reproduction of the video artwork you know as broadcast, bluray, DVD, etc. They are basically making their own art with what is fed through an input. If you respect video art and those who create it, the Q9/8/7 are not for you.

If you want to make your own art or just don't give a damn about the creators of the content you watch, go for any Q series.

Not sure what you really saw in BB, but the Sonys are brighter than the Q series with regular content.... at least that is what I've seen in a home, not store, environment. They are definitely brighter with HDR content. The Q series does have better color volume. However, visibility is limited to a few seconds with regular content.... unless you love Dynamic mode.

OLEDs.... I'm not sure how or why people continue to say OLEDs are dim. It's pure ignorance. 2017 OLEDs are just as bright as their LCD counterparts outside of Vivid/Dynamic mode in a home environment with regular content. They still lack in brightness when it comes to HDR. However since HDR is still a complete unstructured mess from content creation all the way through reproduction in the home via streaming, BD and current TVs, IMO it's a very moot point.

If you sit dead on to the TV, never outside of 30 degrees, and want a 75" on a budget, your best bet is probably a Sony LCD like the 930E/940E/Z9D. If you have the cash, a 2017 77" OLED is the way to go.
Despite the condescending tone of your post and your BS comment about marketing, it actually had some fair points in it. Our preference for what we saw in the store has nothing to do with marketing. The eyes that our parents gave us that fill in the sockets of our skull saw pictures of 3 TVs and we gravitated toward two of them...neither of them being the OLEDs. As people who don't follow TVs and hadn't shopped for one in ages, we were just wow'd by the Sony and the Samsung and if I had a gun to my head, I would have chosen the Samsung.

Your comment on realism of colors is the same old age comment about Samsung versus Apple and doesn't mean you are right. Apple fanatics crave the cooler accuracy of the iphones while Samsung fantatics crave the eye catching popping colors of the Samsung S7, S8 series even if reds aren't accurate. Who cares which one is more accurate if one person prefers the look of one and the other person prefers the look of the other? Its also the same old age argument of realism in my online games of folks who had MMOs that aren't realistic and those that hate the realistic ones because they prefer the more 'stylized' graphics that age better with time. There is no right or wrong, just preferences and my point is that the price of what we saw doesn't justify what you are getting for a picture that didn't draw our eyes to it.

Again as I've posted several times with some of these responses, I DO agree that I need to test some of these in a variety of conditions so these forums did help me realize I need to visit several stores before shelling out the dough. In the end, I may find that the Sony is a worthy upgrade from my 1080P Plasma ELite series for gaming and for a stunning picture. Maybe I won't. Thats the research I still need to do. If I find in these conditions that the BB I went too was so non real as far as the lighting and I'm drooling over the OLEDs, then I guess I'll have to wait until the LG 75" drops about 40% in price before I take the plunge...which would suck because this decision is interfering with my gaming for the sacrifice of having enough space for virtual reality.
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post #29 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Also to note I game on my OLED a lot and I have no issues with it at all it actually looks amazing, better than my 2016 LCD/LED panel. Nice thing about the OLED TV I can watch it even when the sun is directly shining on the screen. Since it emits it's own light sunlight doesn't wash the picture out like an LED panel.

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My concern with the 75" LG which is what I want is the price. I'm sure for gaming it is perfect and I would be in heaven...though I have no direct sunlight on my TV as my room is pretty covered by trees around the parameter...though the room has about 5 windows. I just think that you have to be quite the enthusiast to spend that kind of money (19,999) on a TV for accuracy when the TV that is half that or more than half (Sony) was the one wowing you in the store....but again...I need to test these TVs under more conditions and I need to visit several more stores before making a decision which this thread has helped me realize. In the end I may still chose the Samsung which everyone will just have to learn to stomach lol.
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post #30 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:51 AM
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Great info about HDR. Listen at 4:30
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