2018 LG OLED TV rumors... - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 252 Old 07-19-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Radvlad View Post
Good advice, but if it were me, I would buy one now from Best Buy to sample it in my own home and return it if I wasn't compelled to keep it after spending some quality time with it. As an aside, you can actually pick up a 65" C7 now for $2,600 (not from major retailers, but online).
Thanks! Also good advice
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post #92 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 04:35 PM
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I think 2018 sets will be quite similar to 2017 sets. Maybe slight improvement in peak brightness and near black control. I don't think HDMI 2.1 will make it into those sets. HDMI 2.1 TCon's are going to be difficult to produce.

I think 2019 will be the big leap with LG OLED's. HDMI 2.1, 120 Hz 4K, FreeSync etc. I don't think HDMI 2.1 will make it into NVIDIA's 2018 Volta GPU lineup anyway.

I'll probably be holding onto my C7 until 2019.
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post #93 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
I think 2018 sets will be quite similar to 2017 sets. Maybe slight improvement in peak brightness and near black control. I don't think HDMI 2.1 will make it into those sets. HDMI 2.1 TCon's are going to be difficult to produce.

I think 2019 will be the big leap with LG OLED's. HDMI 2.1, 120 Hz 4K, FreeSync etc. I don't think HDMI 2.1 will make it into NVIDIA's 2018 Volta GPU lineup anyway.

I'll probably be holding onto my C7 until 2019.
The most important question is when LG will be introducing top-emission.

The Blue-TADF rumor that initiated this thread has now been confirmed to be a 2018-development and 2019-launch (in the best case), so no way we see blue TADF in 2018.

The move from bottom emission to top emission should boost brightness at equivalent current density by ~100% and still may be something LG has been working on this year for introduction in 2018.

At CEDIA next month we should see LG demonstrating and announcing the WOLED panel specs for their 2018 TVs, so we should know more soon...
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post #94 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 05:24 PM
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I really want a gaming TV. 55 inches preferably. I already have a OLED65C7P but it's too big to game on and it's in my enterainment room. Just want one for gaming. So anyway, i had a plasma but its old and input lag is horrendous and it doesn't do 4k hdr for the new games coming out. So i go to best buy and get a TCLP605. decent 4k tv. 600 bucks. Went to best buy the next day and got a vizio m series and it was 700. Tested them both out and i'm like... I really just want an OLED, i basically want my plasma back if it did 4k.. So. I'm hoping that OLEDS come down in price and i'm hoping that these TVs will get a little brighter for gaming. What do you guys think? If in March 2018 model should be better than the 2017?
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post #95 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fivez View Post
I really want a gaming TV. 55 inches preferably. I already have a OLED65C7P but it's too big to game on and it's in my enterainment room. Just want one for gaming. So anyway, i had a plasma but its old and input lag is horrendous and it doesn't do 4k hdr for the new games coming out. So i go to best buy and get a TCLP605. decent 4k tv. 600 bucks. Went to best buy the next day and got a vizio m series and it was 700. Tested them both out and i'm like... I really just want an OLED, i basically want my plasma back if it did 4k.. So. I'm hoping that OLEDS come down in price and i'm hoping that these TVs will get a little brighter for gaming. What do you guys think? If in March 2018 model should be better than the 2017?
We should know in September whether there is likely to be a big brightness boost for WOLED TVs next year.

What is it you prefer about your plasma for gaming compared to the M55?
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post #96 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
We should know in September whether there is likely to be a big brightness boost for WOLED TVs next year.

What is it you prefer about your plasma for gaming compared to the M55?
Well... I sold my plasma. Had a Panasonic Viera TC-P50ST50. Was my favorite TV for years, got in 2012. The M55 just.. didn't do HDR correctly, it was all white sort of and it had higher input lag. It somehow did not support 4k + HDR only 2k +HDR or 4k without the HDR. It was strange so i settled on the TCL P605. It actually scored higher than the Vizio M series. But this Roku has way more blooming and is terrible off angle. Anyway. to answer your question, my plasma had such great blacks, such great color saturation, the colors to me looked like how they were supposed to you know? And i didn't want to pay the extra $100 for a TV that is really not any better than this TCL roku TV. So basically.. after getting my OLED65C7P, there's just no comparison to that thing. I want a 55inch OLED but i really can't afford $2k on it. Already spent a boat load on the 65" So i'm hoping they go down in price the next year or so. Or, if in 2018 the panels are like.. "amazing" and brighter i will just pay the 2k and get a 55".
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post #97 of 252 Old 08-13-2017, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fivez View Post
Well... I sold my plasma. Had a Panasonic Viera TC-P50ST50. Was my favorite TV for years, got in 2012. The M55 just.. didn't do HDR correctly, it was all white sort of and it had higher input lag. It somehow did not support 4k + HDR only 2k +HDR or 4k without the HDR. It was strange so i settled on the TCL P605. It actually scored higher than the Vizio M series. But this Roku has way more blooming and is terrible off angle. Anyway. to answer your question, my plasma had such great blacks, such great color saturation, the colors to me looked like how they were supposed to you know? And i didn't want to pay the extra $100 for a TV that is really not any better than this TCL roku TV. So basically.. after getting my OLED65C7P, there's just no comparison to that thing. I want a 55inch OLED but i really can't afford $2k on it. Already spent a boat load on the 65" So i'm hoping they go down in price the next year or so. Or, if in 2018 the panels are like.. "amazing" and brighter i will just pay the 2k and get a 55".
The 55B7A will probably break well-below $1500 this Holiday Season... Doubt it will reach $1K, but may get close .
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post #98 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 07:03 AM
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I can't wait to see what next year brings. My plasma is still going strong and I can't financially upgrade until next year. However, if 2019 is going to be substantially better than 2018, I might just upgrade my speakers instead and wait until 2019 for OLED.
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post #99 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I can't wait to see what next year brings. My plasma is still going strong and I can't financially upgrade until next year. However, if 2019 is going to be substantially better than 2018, I might just upgrade my speakers instead and wait until 2019 for OLED.

Anything suggested would only be speculation at this point.

.....however that's never stopped anybody from guessing. lol
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post #100 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The most important question is when LG will be introducing top-emission.

The Blue-TADF rumor that initiated this thread has now been confirmed to be a 2018-development and 2019-launch (in the best case), so no way we see blue TADF in 2018.

The move from bottom emission to top emission should boost brightness at equivalent current density by ~100% and still may be something LG has been working on this year for introduction in 2018.

At CEDIA next month we should see LG demonstrating and announcing the WOLED panel specs for their 2018 TVs, so we should know more soon...
I'm inclined to agree this would be a big deal. I have no idea whether it's coming in 2018, but if it did I'd personally feel more excited about my "buy a TV every 6 years" rule.

But I'm also now of the mindset that playing the waiting game for the sake of some "improvement" is no longer essential.

1) We're past the early adopter phase of the technology.
2) This isn't the Sony SXRD or some other oddball tech offshoot that is going to be orphaned overnight.
3) There is no apparent showstopper making it too risky to buy.
4) LG's foolish attempt to re-establishing a higher price level on intro of the 2017 models has failed miserably. If for some incomprehensible reason it is repeated, only a fool would buy any of them in the first 90 days.
5) LG's pricing is now not only out of the early-adopter stratosphere, it's where high-end plasma was 6-7 years ago. While inflation has been tame over that period, I'd argue a modern, waif-like 4K OLED is a sufficient upgrade over a 2011 plasma that it is "worth more" but it, in fact, now can routinely cost less. The tax phase is, therefore, mostly offer.
6) A 2018, 2019, 2020 model may offer (a) more brightness (b) more lifespan (c) better processing (d) less "vignetting", et al. but it's not clear that even 90% of OLED buyers are seeing the current models as falling short here. Improvements to come will be talked about breathlessly...
7) ... but in any given year, those improvements will very likely be incremental. Yes, there will be years of note (thanks, Panasonic, for timing an excellent plasma to a good year for me) where the uptick is larger than others....
8) ... but the idea of tick-tock, a la Intel, as some predictor of improvements to LG OLED's has no real basis in reality. Even if the company goes for major year, minor year in terms of technology, the manifestation of that to consumers could easily be minor, e.g. if lifespan doubles, most people won't ever care.

The upshot of this? Buy when you're ready, just don't overpay by buying too early after new ones are released -- that's the fastest kind of buyer's remorse.

If there's something you are truly waiting for and you're happy with your current display by all means wait. I can totally see the appeal of a product that's completely flat but isn't W-Series priced, personally, even if it's much thicker (1/2 inch? 3/4?). Your feature may be something else.
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There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #101 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 11:38 AM
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I blame Apple's iPhone "S" cycle and Intel for leading people to believe that TV's have their own tick-tock schedule with significant feature upgrades every other year. I admit I was in that mindset for awhile and holding off until 2018 for an OLED, all while dealing with a struggling Samsung TV that gives me more annoyance than enjoyment...but I'm coming to terms with the "buy now, happy now" idea. I was holding off for a 77", and seeing the 77G7 just hit $13k brings the price closer to (my) reality.

Honestly, the most significant change I would look forward to is a drop in pricing on these larger screens. We've reached the point where current models (and 2016 LG OLEDS) are universally praised for their quality. The only improvement I think of when I'm using my B6 is "I wish it was larger..."
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post #102 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pjs06c View Post
I blame Apple's iPhone "S" cycle and Intel for leading people to believe that TV's have their own tick-tock schedule with significant feature upgrades every other year. I admit I was in that mindset for awhile and holding off until 2018 for an OLED, all while dealing with a struggling Samsung TV that gives me more annoyance than enjoyment...but I'm coming to terms with the "buy now, happy now" idea. I was holding off for a 77", and seeing the 77G7 just hit $13k brings the price closer to (my) reality.

Honestly, [b]the most significant change I would look forward to is a drop in pricing on these larger screens.[/] We've reached the point where current models (and 2016 LG OLEDS) are universally praised for their quality. The only improvement I think of when I'm using my B6 is "I wish it was larger..."
That won't happen before P10 comes online - 2021 or 2022...
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post #103 of 252 Old 08-14-2017, 05:21 PM
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I'm definitely in the 10% club...better near black uniformity would be a treat, but overpaying for my 77" (and the eradication of 3D) means I'm going to have a (much) longer upgrade cycle than normal short of any catastrophic failure or LG agreeing with my definition of defective.
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post #104 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 11:19 AM
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Does anyone know when the 1mm OLEDs will be released like the demos we saw online? Or perhaps when they will be 88-92" in diameter? That's when I plan to replace my projector. My screen alone is 3mm and that's thicker then the new OLED. Once the size increases a little, projectors will have to be re-marketed for outdoor use because I see no other benefits.
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post #105 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 11:24 AM
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Does anyone know when the 1mm OLEDs will be released like the demos we saw online? Or perhaps when they will be 88-92" in diameter? That's when I plan to replace my projector. My screen alone is 3mm and that's thicker then the new OLED. Once the size increases a little, projectors will have to be re-marketed for outdoor use because I see no other benefits.
You can roll up a screen when not using it (handy if in front of windows). Not sure you can roll up an OLED yet.

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post #106 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 11:56 AM
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You can roll up a screen when not using it (handy if in front of windows). Not sure you can roll up an OLED yet.
I have the DNP Blade and it's aluminium so I won't be folding it. A 1mm OLED shouldn't weigh much anyways thus negating any benefits there.

Once you go projector, anything smaller just really takes away from the experience. But once OLED is the size and thickness of my projector screen, why have the projector? Being a minimalist I'd like to get rid of that item.

My question remains for anyone who has info on when OLED will reach 85"+ and when the 1mm versions will be available?

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post #107 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the DNP Blade and it's aluminium so I won't be folding it. A 1mm OLED shouldn't weigh much anyways thus negating any benefits there.

Once you go projector, anything smaller just really takes away from the experience. But once OLED is the size and thickness of my projector screen, why have the projector? Being a minimalist I'd like to get rid of that item.

My question remains for anyone who has info on when OLED will reach 85"+ and when the 1mm versions will be available?
Almost certainly not before 2021. (and no idea about 1mm)
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post #108 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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Almost certainly not before 2021. (and no idea about 1mm)
Dang they were already showing 1mm OLEDs I thought they would be out 2018.
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post #109 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 01:32 PM
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Dang they were already showing 1mm OLEDs I thought they would be out 2018.
I thought the W7 was 2.5mm at this point. 1mm is still quite a bit of shrinking from that. I think the AMOLED in my cell phone is close to 1mm though.

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post #110 of 252 Old 08-15-2017, 01:41 PM
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I thought the W7 was 2.5mm at this point. 1mm is still quite a bit of shrinking from that. I think the AMOLED in my cell phone is close to 1mm though.

There its been out for a while just not for sale.

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post #111 of 252 Old 09-06-2017, 11:58 PM
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How many titles are there that are mastered above 1000 nits? With any and all tiles regardless of mastering luminance, how many times does 800+ nit content appear on screen. If you can answer that, how long is said content on screen? Once you get those figures, does it really matter if any display can do 1500+ nits today or even in the next 1-2 years?

Having said all that, 1000 to 1100 nit OLED..... perhaps is coming???
I'd have to agree. I wouldn't mind a small incremental increase in nits and, although no authority on the subject or technology, don't believe we need as high as 1500 nits for OLED to be an acceptable technology. I have an LG 2016 55E6P, professionally calibrated, plenty of biased lighting added. I honestly don't know whether I need 1500 or even 1100 nits, further blinding myself in the darkened environment I choose to watch movies.
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post #112 of 252 Old 09-07-2017, 12:54 AM
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This is correct, 2018 should be a 'tick' year that should introduce more significant changes to underlying WOLED panel composition.

Increased brightness would make it easier for LG to reintroduce 3D, but would then represent a step backwards as far as keeping up with Samsung in the 'brightness wars'.

I think the best we can hope for is that LG may introduce one entry-level model supporting 3D with more modest color volume for HDR (but I wouldn't hold my breath )...
According to LG themselves, brightness levels were not what compelled them to drop 3D in their 2017 lineup. They are quoted as saying it did not affect their ability to deliver higher nits. They removed 3D simply as a business decision influenced by decreasing customer demand. Much to their surprise, they then found themselves singled out in a petition to bring 3D back in 2018 because, to LG's credit, their 2016 models combined OLED and passive 3D to deliver the best crosstalk-free 3D image you could get on a home screen, surely the best I've ever seen. Good enough to start a now rather sizable petition.

My main TV is a 2015 Sony 75" 4K (unfortunately). It uses the worst version of active 3D I've ever seen and, with that, all the crosstalk-related headaches you care to endure. Let's face it, Samsung, Sony, and all the others were sadly destroying a technology many of us would have otherwise enjoyed if done properly. Due to its poor implementation, it WAS just a gimmick. To be honest, while most of my friends do notice and appreciate the added image quality of 4K with HDR, they're even more impressed with the 3D image my 2016 LG E6 delivers, often commenting it's better than what they've seen in the theater.

I know I'm in the minority here and will likely get some negative feedback, but I'm not alone when I say I have a rather large 3D blu-ray collection and was saddened by LG's decision only because it was evident someone had finally found the best way to deliver passive 3D on an OLED 4K screen, taking advantage of the extra lines of resolution to deliver a full and crisp 1080P 3D image to each eye. They finally got it right, then simply dropped the technology altogether. So I, for one, hope it comes back in their 2018 lineup (just one model for us oddballs who like 3D). If there's any truth to their statement about not sacrificing nits for 3D, wouldn't everyone then be happy?
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post #113 of 252 Old 09-08-2017, 07:56 AM
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According to LG themselves, brightness levels were not what compelled them to drop 3D in their 2017 lineup. They are quoted as saying it did not affect their ability to deliver higher nits. They removed 3D simply as a business decision influenced by decreasing customer demand. Much to their surprise, they then found themselves singled out in a petition to bring 3D back in 2018 because, to LG's credit, their 2016 models combined OLED and passive 3D to deliver the best crosstalk-free 3D image you could get on a home screen, surely the best I've ever seen. Good enough to start a now rather sizable petition.

My main TV is a 2015 Sony 75" 4K (unfortunately). It uses the worst version of active 3D I've ever seen and, with that, all the crosstalk-related headaches you care to endure. Let's face it, Samsung, Sony, and all the others were sadly destroying a technology many of us would have otherwise enjoyed if done properly. Due to its poor implementation, it WAS just a gimmick. To be honest, while most of my friends do notice and appreciate the added image quality of 4K with HDR, they're even more impressed with the 3D image my 2016 LG E6 delivers, often commenting it's better than what they've seen in the theater.

I know I'm in the minority here and will likely get some negative feedback, but I'm not alone when I say I have a rather large 3D blu-ray collection and was saddened by LG's decision only because it was evident someone had finally found the best way to deliver passive 3D on an OLED 4K screen, taking advantage of the extra lines of resolution to deliver a full and crisp 1080P 3D image to each eye. They finally got it right, then simply dropped the technology altogether. So I, for one, hope it comes back in their 2018 lineup (just one model for us oddballs who like 3D). If there's any truth to their statement about not sacrificing nits for 3D, wouldn't everyone then be happy?
+1
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post #114 of 252 Old 09-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Has anyone heard anything new at CEDIA?
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post #115 of 252 Old 09-12-2017, 06:59 AM
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Does anyone know if there are any 75" OLED's coming in 2018 that aren't over $10,000? I don't get how a 65" OLED can be purchased for $3,000, but adding ten more inches can triple and quadruple the price... Grrrrr
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post #116 of 252 Old 09-12-2017, 08:34 AM
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Does anyone know if there are any 75" OLED's coming in 2018 that aren't over $10,000? I don't get how a 65" OLED can be purchased for $3,000, but adding ten more inches can triple and quadruple the price... Grrrrr
Massive decrease in yields. Same reason that the highest performance GPU's are considerably more expensive than second tier parts, which are often the same silicon but with a defective component disabled.

A 77" panel is a whole OLED sheet from LG's production lines. They can cut off imperfections and still have a salable 55" or 65" panel. LG is building a next gen production facility now that'll producer larger sheets and should allow a drop in prices for 77" and go-to-market with bigger screens, but that's unlikely to be online before 2020.
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post #117 of 252 Old 09-12-2017, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Massive decrease in yields. Same reason that the highest performance GPU's are considerably more expensive than second tier parts, which are often the same silicon but with a defective component disabled.

A 77" panel is a whole OLED sheet from LG's production lines. They can cut off imperfections and still have a salable 55" or 65" panel. LG is building a next gen production facility now that'll producer larger sheets and should allow a drop in prices for 77" and go-to-market with bigger screens, but that's unlikely to be online before 2020.
There is so much misinformation in this post, I don't even want to try to respond.

77" WOLEDs will never become adfordable - when LG introduces their new 75" WOLED we'll probably see first signs of them getting serious about trying to move any meaningful volume of that panel size.

This is all about supply and demand - demand for 77" TVs is vanishingly small and thus so is supply to keep prices high.

Yield has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Oh, and if LG wated to devote an entire Gen 8.5 substrate to manufacture only a single panel, they'd be selling 110" WOLEDs (2x2 55" panels = same size as a single 110" panel).

Anthing between 66" and 98" gets manufactured 2-up on gen 8.5 substrates...
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post #118 of 252 Old 09-12-2017, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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According to LG themselves, brightness levels were not what compelled them to drop 3D in their 2017 lineup. They are quoted as saying it did not affect their ability to deliver higher nits. They removed 3D simply as a business decision influenced by decreasing customer demand. Much to their surprise, they then found themselves singled out in a petition to bring 3D back in 2018 because, to LG's credit, their 2016 models combined OLED and passive 3D to deliver the best crosstalk-free 3D image you could get on a home screen, surely the best I've ever seen. Good enough to start a now rather sizable petition.

My main TV is a 2015 Sony 75" 4K (unfortunately). It uses the worst version of active 3D I've ever seen and, with that, all the crosstalk-related headaches you care to endure. Let's face it, Samsung, Sony, and all the others were sadly destroying a technology many of us would have otherwise enjoyed if done properly. Due to its poor implementation, it WAS just a gimmick. To be honest, while most of my friends do notice and appreciate the added image quality of 4K with HDR, they're even more impressed with the 3D image my 2016 LG E6 delivers, often commenting it's better than what they've seen in the theater.

I know I'm in the minority here and will likely get some negative feedback, but I'm not alone when I say I have a rather large 3D blu-ray collection and was saddened by LG's decision only because it was evident someone had finally found the best way to deliver passive 3D on an OLED 4K screen, taking advantage of the extra lines of resolution to deliver a full and crisp 1080P 3D image to each eye. They finally got it right, then simply dropped the technology altogether. So I, for one, hope it comes back in their 2018 lineup (just one model for us oddballs who like 3D). If there's any truth to their statement about not sacrificing nits for 3D, wouldn't everyone then be happy?
It's unfortunately never going to happen, but now that LG has introduced the new Atmos-less entry-level B7A, but it would be fantastic if LG offered an Atmos-less D8A with 3D priced at parity with the B/C8P. The 3D market is theirs for the taking, I just fear that, first, they have concluded that market is small and shrinking, and second, they have bigger fish to fry right now (like improving near-black uniformity and more-effectively combatting burn-in).

So while I share your hope (as I enjoy my 65C6P ), I am extremely pessimistic we will ever see the reintroduction of passive 3D again.
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post #119 of 252 Old 09-12-2017, 01:07 PM
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There is so much misinformation in this post, I don't even want to try to respond.

77" WOLEDs will never become adfordable - when LG introduces their new 75" WOLED we'll probably see first signs of them getting serious about trying to move any meaningful volume of that panel size.

This is all about supply and demand - demand for 77" TVs is vanishingly small and thus so is supply to keep prices high.

Yield has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Oh, and if LG wated to devote an entire Gen 8.5 substrate to manufacture only a single panel, they'd be selling 110" WOLEDs (2x2 55" panels = same size as a single 110" panel).

Anthing between 66" and 98" gets manufactured 2-up on gen 8.5 substrates...
Ofcourse the high prices of the 77 inch OLED has to do with yield issues and size of substrates. Arguing against that just seem weird and uneducated. LG would love to be able to compete with the prices of what a 75 inch LCD cost in the market.
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Ofcourse the high prices of the 77 inch OLED has to do with yield issues and size of substrates. Arguing against that just seem weird and uneducated. [b{LG would love to be able to compete with the prices of what a 75 inch LCD cost in the market[/b].
That is true, but infortunately impossible with 77" panels and current 8.5G manfacturing (and not because of yield).

The 10.5G P10 plant that will be coming online in ~2021 will be able to produce 6 75" WOLED per 10.5G substrate, compared to the 2 77" WOLEDs LG can produce on current 8.5G substrates.

Those 10.5 G sibstrates are about twoce as large as 8.5G substrates and will cost more to produce, probably about 1.5 times the cost of current 8.5G substrates. You can do the math - 75" WOLEDs will be able to be priced at low as 1.33x the price of 65" WOLEDs once P10 is up and running...

In terms of the current pricing on 77" WOLEDs, LG is selling everything they can produce focusing primarily on 55" and 65". They have nothing to gain by selling more 77" WOLEDs save to lose market share.

If they had a glut of WOLED panels, lowering prices on 77" might become more atttractive than further refuctions in the price of 55" and 65" WOLEDs, but as things stand today, LG believes they are better-served by introducibg a new even-lower-priced entry-level B7A model then by trying to sell more 77" WOLEDs.

At this stage of the ramp, it's all about market share, focus, and advanced planning for P10 production (and absolutely nothing to do with yield). Wierd or not, it's the reality of being capacity-constrained while trying to establish a new market...

To put it in context, for every 77" WOLED TV LG sells today, they had to give up sales of 3 55" WOLEDs...
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