HDTVtest TV Shootout Results: OLED Sweeps All Categories - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
So, for people who stream UHD HDR the clear choice is the Sony OLED? It will also get a DV update, so even better.
The answer is: Anything but LG.

LG has the worst processing of any display in the shootout, and yet the way people talk they try to make it sound as if it is overall best or the winner. LG will never be the best as long as they have inferior processing and there are other OLED choices out there like Sony, Panasonic, etc.

I do not have access to Panasonic, so cannot comment, but Sony is better than Samsung and LG, since Samsung only has edge-lit LCD and is not very good with contouring/banding. The more compressed the content, the bigger the disaster the LG is...
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post #332 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:12 PM
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^ time to pack up and go home, the expert has spoken and everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about or seeing

Let me adjust my viewing position, I was typing off axis

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #333 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Can't even sell my PN64F8500 in my town - here, Plasma is a 4 letter word!
Take it out every 6 months, fire it up, and let it run for several days. (Currently a backup in case any the upstairs sets develop a JS Panel Brown spot issue, not that any of them are JS series.)
My previous JS9500 also developed dark spots,I got a full refund from samsung ,but by the way ,it wasn't easy to get the refund.I saw this week on facebook market place a damaged ks8000 for sale with a big burn in spot. So for those that think that burn in or led wear doesn't happen ,It does.
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post #334 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Get all three depending on usage criteria. If it weren't for Kodak and LG, what a crap pile today's TVs situation would be (would the Z9D even exist in the vacuum of OLED pushing LCD to perform better?).
It's funny how you insinuate that the Z9D (being an LCD) is a pile of crap, when it is you who are constantly bemoaning the uniformity problems on your 2016 LG OLED. My Z9D has plasma-like near-black uniformity, and doesn't have black crush, macroblocking, loads of false-contouring/posterization artifacts, screwed up blacks for HDR, massively clipped highlights in HDR, etc. like 2016 LG OLED had, and still needs work even with the 2017s, which are a modest improvement.

Owner satisfaction on the Z9D is very high, and there are not threads with thousands of posts asking how to improve near-blacks and motion like there are with 2016 LG.

Z9D is a 2016 model, and 2017 means more OLED choices and LG has made some improvements. Sony will need to step up and offer an upgrade to the Z9D, or Samsung needs to get a clue and offer a FALD, or yes, LCD will fall way behind.

Thankfully there is Sony OLED to the rescue in the USA, with some superb processing and excellent motion.

Anything but LG...
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post #335 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:34 PM
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Who won the category on a 5% gray? Did they bother to throw up a 5 IRE, 10 IRE, etc. for the audience to see on all the displays? If not, why not? Z9D would have taken first prize, since it does not have the vertical stripe banding and vignetting issues that the OLEDs have. As I keep saying, shootouts are far from comprehensive. A few hours at a shootout are not thorough enough, and there are too many non-videophile amateurs deciding on which display is best. One must be trained to know what to look for, and most people are oblivious.
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post #336 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
will see how bad the vertical-stripe bands are on the Sony A1E, which my Z9D does not have.
Every fald that I have seen have bands. Is very common on fald do to all the individual led strips . Edge lit usually have less band or no bands.The band are usually wider than those on falds.

We really have to play the lottery when it comes to uniformity and bands.

We just end keeping the one that we personally found less distracting,but it may be distracting to others. All the refurbish panels keep passing from one person to the other.I always ask for brand new replacement panels.
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post #337 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
^ time to pack up and go home, the expert has spoken and everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about or seeing

Let me adjust my viewing position, I was typing off axis
^^^this is too funny...maybe we should all request our money back😉😉😉
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post #338 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
Who won the category on a 5% gray? Did they bother to throw up a 5 IRE, 10 IRE, etc. for the audience to see on all the displays? If not, why not? Z9D would have taken first prize, since it does not have the vertical stripe banding and vignetting issues that the OLEDs have. As I keep saying, shootouts are far from comprehensive. A few hours at a shootout are not thorough enough, and there are too many non-videophile amateurs deciding on which display is best. One must be trained to know what to look for, and most people are oblivious.
You know why they don't test for that, because who sits their all day watching 5% slides...your entitled to your opinion but c'mon man.
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post #339 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
Exactly. No matter how many accolades the LG gets their will always be those to look at any reasoning to down play it.
No matter how many accolades the LGs get, for some of us who have lived for many years with displays with excellent all-around processing, including motion, no amount of hype surrounding LG can dissuade us from recognizing that LG simply cannot handle compressed sources very well, and that the heavy investments Sony has made in processing (including motion processing) justify the higher price of their OLED.

Some people are just not that picky when it comes to lesser quality sources, and some are totally oblivious to motion blur or artifacts (take your pick) on LG OLED, and for them it is the best bang for the buck choice.

For those who demand the very best on all sources, they should pay extra for the Sony and if they are extremely picky about colors, get a LUT box and/or have D-Nice calibrate their display.

A Sony calibrated to have essentially as accurate color as the LG is closer to SDR reference than any LG.

Folks, you do realize that with TruMotion turned off, the LG OLED looks blurry, double-vision, right? 300 lines of motion resolution just doesn't cut it. Did they have TruMotion turned on for the shootout, yes or no? What were the settings? Until someone publishes the motion settings used on each of the displays, sorry, but the shootout is lacking credibility, plain and simple.
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post #340 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 02:04 PM
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Haters can keep hating, the awards and amount of happy owners, and great reviews speak for themselves.
Congrats again LG.
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post #341 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth View Post
Haters can keep hating, the awards and amount of happy owners, and great reviews speak for themselves.
Congrats again LG.
I couldn't agree more with that statement...but I will say that oled might not be for everyone.
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post #342 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 02:50 PM
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Can someone condense a two liner recap for me?

LGOLED55C7P - Calman Enthusiast - I1Display / I1Pro
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post #343 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
Sorry, but no way. No way LG can win any best living room TV. The processing and motion are simply not up to snuff. I will admit that an LG OLED will look great if you feed it pristine sources in a dark room, like quality BD transfers and UHD BD. For that purpose, the LG is the best bang for the buck, although I prefer the superior and more flexible motion processing of the Sony (and Panasonic for those in UK).

But as a living room TV? Please. The false contouring is off the charts bad, and very distracting, and the macroblocking is still there, and pales in comparison to the clean presentation of my Z9D. I've spent many hours using the Z9D and 2016/2017 LG OLEDs in a "living room" type setting, and it is absurd to suggest that the LG OLED is the best living room TV. Apparently the viewers at the shootout disagreed with you, because the LG did not merit 1st or 2nd place in this category.



Aside from more than 25-30 degrees off-axis, no it doesn't. Being a FALD, the Z9D can get much brighter than OLED when sun pours into the room and is easily better.

The motion artifacts on the Z9D were quite pronounced which takes it out of the running

Sorry, but unless the motion settings are published, this means absolutely nothing. What were the motion settings for each display when they were judged in the living room category? What motion artifacts are you referring to on the Z9D, specifically? Was this with test patterns or content? Which test patterns specifically?

You must tell us what the TruMotion setting was on the LG OLED when you judged the difference in living room performance. TruMotion must have been turned completely off, because if it was turned on, how come you did not notice any of the glaring artifacts on the LG? So was the TruMotion turned on or off?

NO SETTINGS PUBLISHED = NO CREDIBILITY
Ok.
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post #344 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JNayAV View Post
Know it can't be answered, but wonder how much of the OLED's winning the HDR category over LCD this year has to do with having the grading monitor there to compare to, versus the overall improvements made over last year's products.
Weren't the LCD's pushed out to the sides at the end (I know the Z9D was), and the OLEDs were set next to the reference monitor in the middle? Another problem with the layout of the shootout. The LCD's were already getting kicked to the curb. That's why it's best to compare just two displays side by side at a time, and not a group spaced widely apart.

Bottom line is, these shootouts are not the definitive end-all word on anything. They are useful in some respects (especially for those who are present, but not so much for those not in attendance), but they are not comprehensive and thorough enough.

The ideal shootout would pit two displays side by side and just one viewer in front of them judging. Then the next viewer would repeat the process, etc. When you have a large crowd of people and a large amount of displays all spread out in a large room, too many variables come into play.

Also, the shootouts to have credibility need to post ALL THE SETTINGS used on each display (including whose decision it was to choose those particular settings), and also they need to fully document and publish which content was used in this portion of the voting, which content was used in that portion of the voting, and then they need to disclose if they changed the settings on any of the TV's during the middle of the shootout.

I bought Z9D, C7, and A1E, so I don't really care what they say at these shootouts, anyhow. Whichever is best for my particular viewing habits stays, and whichever can't cut it will get sold.

I can already tell that the C7 is going to be going soon, as I watch plenty of heavily compressed content including awful Xfinity cable, and the C7 struggles with that.

With pristine or near pristine source content the LG OLEDs are very nice. I will miss their slick remote and operating system, and the fact that they are much lighter to move around than the much heavier Sony OLED, but that is about it.
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post #345 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
HOWEVER, the 2017 OLED TVs are game-changing... That HDR performance difference is for the most part now history! If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I would have had trouble believing it, but the 2017 LG OLEDs in particular totally hold their own against the Sony ZD9, even with higher APL scenes too!
What are you talking about? No they don't. I set my C7 next to my Z9D and played plenty of 1000+ nit content side by side, there is still a major advantage to the Z9D. The main difference between 2016/2017 LG OLED is with the blacks. 2016 LG OLED had major black crush and when you calibrated the display to show proper shadow detail, the perfect blacks were spoiled, and so some of the time 2016 LG OLED actually does blacks worse than the Z9D, not better. that is unless you are willing to crush the blacks and lose detail. So overall the Z9D was easily better.

For 2017, LG OLED (and I presume Sony as well) still cannot keep up with Z9D or Q9 with bright HDR content. It's the improvements in black handling that is the biggest improvement. 2016 LG OLED could not claim to have perfect blacks with HDR. 2017 is better. For example, LG's HDR Chess demo still looks better on the Z9D than it does on LG's own OLED. I challenge anyone to say otherwise, after testing them side by side.

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The biggest surprise of all this year has been the fact that the Sony A1 OLED is a huge disappointment. (Sorry Al! ) But what's most surprising is that it does not perform significantly superior to the LG OLEDs, which is what we had expected... And at the UK shootout I found the Sony A1 OLED to underform in certain respects as compared with both the LG and the Panasonic OLEDs...
I have to laugh at this. Sony OLED is a huge disappointment? The processing on LG is the huge disappointment. The false contouring/posterization is as a bad as ever. They don't seem to have made much if any improvement in this area. Their motion processing is still prone to manifesting a lot of artifacts, it hardly seems any better. And without Trumotion engaged, one gets a blurry 300 lines of motion resolution. So you get a lot of blur or you get a lot of artifacts with LG. Pick your poison.

LG doesn't offer any BFI, and Sony does. Even if the BFI is not entirely effective, the fact that Sony offers it gives encouragement that future generations will likely offer a more effective solution. It's pretty much a given that LG will not offer BFI on their OLED next year. Things tend to stay the same. LG has always had inferior processing, and it continues.

Sony is way behind Samsung and LG in the user experience and remote categories, and that will likely continue in 2018. Things tend to stay the same.

The biggest Sony disappointment is that they did not unveil a new slick remote with the A1E, but continued to offer the same junk as on their other TVs. They also did not make Android run much faster and smoother, they cheaped out again. PQ-wise most folks seem quite thrilled with their A1E.


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... Where for example, the LG was clearly showing significantly superior peak luminance capability where the Panasonic's ABL was an issue a number of times to the extent that that would be a deal-breaker for us, whereas the LG even kept up with the Sony ZD9 in most instances, even with high APL scenes!
You mean calibrated to a specific low-light threshold nit-level for in SDR. No way it keeps up with Z9D in HDR. You are living in a fantasy world or they set the Z9D up wrong for the shootout. How can anyone tell if they set it up correctly, if there is cowardice involved and they do not post the settings used on each TV during the shootout?

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I should add that no TV is perfect as of right now, in that the LG OLEDs do have some imperfections/flaws, such as with respect to the potential for yellow banding and uniformity issues, the severity of which ranges significantly between panels... However, there does not exist any other consumer TV which is 'more perfect' and the primary issues and/or reasons for not making the transition from buying LCD to buying OLED as of right now quite simply no longer exist. And this is coming from someone who to date has steadfast refused to buy into OLED and currently owns only LCD TVs
You obviously fall into the camp that is oblivious to or not sensitive to differences in processing and motion, where the LG's still fall far short of the Sony (I can't speak to the Panny) in these areas.

The difference in processing on the LG C7 and my Z9D is not small. It is obvious, even of they were not side by side. Everything is just so much cleaner and nice looking on the Sony. The Z9D still does above black better than the LG as well.

Try owning these sets and living with them in your home.

Was the Trumotion turned off on the LG during the entirety of the shootout, yes or no? No answer = no credibility.
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post #346 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by urgru View Post
Hold your horses on the Z9 as a gaming TV. Gaming is my primary use case, and I test drove the 65" Z9. Huge disappointment. Terrible input lag on 1080p sources (any older console and most retro upscalers). Lots of motion blur. Motion performance on the 75" is apparently much better, but that was out of my price range.
You already pretty much admitted that you did not fully explore the motion settings on the Z9, and therefore it was not setup optimally. You did not use any smoothing, only the clearness setting, which even on the lower numbers you claimed caused intolerable flickering on the Z9D (no one else seems to complain about this), but then with BFI on the A1E OLED you claimed you were not bothered by flickering at all, which is the opposite of most other's experience.

So it cannot be said that your experience is normal or typical.
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post #347 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
There is indeed no longer any significant performance difference between the Z9 and OLEDs when it comes to HDR
Nonsense. There is a significant difference. The OLEDs can do challenging black scenes much better than the Z9D, and keep the black bars uniformly black, and the Z9D can do high-peak brightness, high-APL scenes much better, with much better detail and pop. There is a very large difference between the two.

How much emphasis a person chooses to place on the importance of "perfect" blacks on OLED vs. much better HDR pop/brightness and detail with high-APL HDR is subjective, and up to the individual, so some may prefer 2017 OLED for HDR overall, and some may prefer LCD, but I don't care what a shootout says, since they won't tell me the settings they used, and the audience was sitting way too far back and the displays were all spread out too far and wide, and LCDs never do well at shootouts, because most of the people are way off-axis for most of the time, and that just leaves them with an overall uninspired overall impression.

How well the LG OLEDs (or any OLED for that matter) will hold up by red-lining the panel to get that extra pop with HDR and less ABL is still to be determined. The ever-increasing reports of "burn-in" or stubborn image retention is not exactly encouraging.

Anyway, Z9D does 3D and 2017 OLED does not. Z9D is better in a sun-lit room, is safer to use as a monitor or for people who watch channels with the same logos all the time, and is less susceptible to getting IR or burn-in (uneven wear) for those who do marathon gaming sessions with static overlays. Mine does not have the near-black vertical stripes or bands or vignetting or reverse vignetting that OLEDs tend to have.

The Z9D is still very relevant in many ways, even though it is a year old now and is a 2016 LCD being compared to 2017 OLED.

The A1E is much more aesthetically pleasing to me than the thick bulky Z9D with the lame semi-gloss screen (big mistake, Sony!). The 940E is a much more aesthetically pleasing display when off.

So I most likely will prefer the A1E when it arrives next week, but the Z9D still has a few tricks up its sleeve, so I will keep one in bedroom and other in living room, and whatever content is best suited for each I will simply switch displays.

The C7 is getting kicked to the curb after I have had my fun comparing it side by side with the A1E.
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post #348 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 04:21 PM
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Im sorry but IMO how my TV performs with compressed, crappy content isnt very important to me. Why would I critically view crappy content? I get a pretty good Netflix and Amazon feed with my high-end Cable internet and while there are some compression artifacts here and there the feed is mostly solid. The root cause is the content delivery and thats what has to be improved. So what is the Sony doing to magically clean up compression issues? masking it? Blurring it? How is that really any better when its still not the original content or the "intent" of the director. Im just curious here.

Myself, and I suspect many others bought LG OLEDs for critical viewing of our favorite content. Interestingly, my set looks great with daytime sports too. Go figure. It looks good with just about everything I throw at it. I highly doubt that a truly crappy feed is going to look reference quality on the Sony or any other TV.

Near black is a pretty easy issue to mitigate on the 2016 models. Just some luminence tweaks with some brightness adjustments and you're 90% there. Does LG lose out in this category when compared to the other top sets? Maybe so. No TV is perfect. But the LGs hold their own or win outright in other categories. Motion isnt perfect either but its subjective and many people are content with how they have it setup. There are a lot of options to help dial this in.

My 3 cents.

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post #349 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 05:01 PM
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The NY Event, I believe, also didn't use any content with metadata past 1000 nits, so the delta between the Z9D and the OLEDs was much smaller that it could have been had they used 4000 nit content.
Herein lies the problem: "I believe..." It is pathetic that the folks running shootouts can't even make a full disclosure of the settings used on each display and also report on the specific content used to make the comparisons. Of course, the people who were in attendance at the shootout could make notes as to what content was shown, but that does not do any good for those who were not in attendance. All we get is bits and pieces here and there.

That is why I conduct my own shootouts in my home, so I don't have to take others' word for it, and hope that they did not set them up incorrectly. There are a lot of complicated settings and variables these days, and what guarantee do we have that each display was set up to its maximum potential? If they are so confident that they were all set up correctly, then post the settings.

I still do not know exactly what content was shown at the shootouts, and content is the single greatest variable in determining differences in these displays.

Proof? Throw a 5% grayscale up on all of the displays so everyone can see that the Z9D does not have that vertical stripe banding and vignetting that the OLEDs seem to exhibit.

My LG OLED with those nasty vertical bar goalposts does not look better on a film like Passengers than my Z9D, thank you very much. I would rather watch a film that has lots of murky gray scenes on my Z9D which does not have banding or vignetting.

I would also rather watch 3D on my Z9D than on a 2017 OLED or the Q9
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post #350 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 05:15 PM
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I love that LG won the best HDR TV at the shootout. It is so much better than on the other sets. Yahoo for LG.

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post #351 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Interesting point of debate. How do you score a display that you have to sit directly in front of to view?
How do you score a display (EZ1000, B7, A1E, Q9) that can't do 3D? I guess Z9D gets a score of 100 and the rest get a big fat ZERO.

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If we're voting with our dollars, I don't think many would pick that over a display with a wide viewing angle.
There are always tradeoffs. Z9D owners understand that having 3D which 2017 OLED does not, better (very)-bright room performance, and no issues with burn-in are some of the benefits that one enjoys that helps offset negatives such as viewing angle.

I always view my Z9D on-axis, so I recognize that the better viewing angles of OLED would be enjoyed by others, but not myself.

One cannot have it all in one display. Ideal would be to have projector, OLED and LCD for different content, different ambient light conditions etc.

Since different people have different priorities, that why the arguments are endless and never cease. Everyone wants as much a they can out of a single display, and they simply cannot get it.

There is no single display that has 3D and Dolby Vision, and a CMS, and a slick wand remote, and the moth-eye screen, where you can control practically everything on the TV by voice, like the Samsung, with the excellent quantum dot color.

The biggest disappointment of 2017 is not LG OLED or Sony OLED. By far the biggest disappointment is that those clowns at Samsung finally made a flagship that was flat, abandoning the stupid aggressive curve, and then they had to go and make it 32 zone edge-lit.

Some hypocrites (LG shills) accuse me of being a Sony-boy. Wrong. If Samsung had made the Q9 500+ zones, I would ditch the Z9D and get the Q9. I love the moth-eye much better than the semi-gloss screen on the Z9D, and nobody does colors better than Samsung. Samsung can do good motion, and their user experience operating the TV I imagine is ten times better than Sony. I love the notion of how you can just speak to the Samsung and control things like the motion settings.

However, PQ is the most important factor, and it's not my fault Shamsung dropped the ball, and everyone is laughing at their pathetic overpriced Q9.

I tried the cheaper LG C7 before I bought an A1E, just like with last year's models I tried 2016 LG OLED before getting the Z9D, so I have nothing personal against LG. I keep trying them, and I keep noticing how poor the processing is. Not my fault. So I will stick with Sony's flagship LCD and OLED until Samsung get's their act together and goes back to FALD, Panasonic starts selling their OLEDs in the U.S., etc.

Not my fault that the only viable choices in the USA are Z9D, A1E, or a 2017 LG OLED. There are only 3 viable choices for a high-end FP display 65 inches or above, and I am trying all three.
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post #352 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
...Some hypocrites...
Pot, kettle.

A quick scan of online reviews score the LG higher than the Sony. Sure there are pros and cons to both. A few reviews score Sony better, but most LG.
It all boils down to individual requirements and the majority pick LG.

Which is better? Well that's subjective. There is no real answer as there will always be differing opinions.

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post #353 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 05:59 PM
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Some certainly have the hubris to nominate their opinions as the correct ones.
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post #354 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:08 PM
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As many know, for the longest time I've said there's little difference between the LG & Sony OLEDs and much of the hyperbole to the contrary, was just plain nonsense. In some circles that argument is still an uphill battle, despite reviews and the multiple shootout results.
Not ever having had the pleasure of experiencing the X1 Extreme processing in your home, side by side with another reference, and trying to make conjectures and extrapolations by comparing your two-generations behind Sony LCD to your newer LG OLEDs, which was in a different room and not side by side, and then admitting that false contouring doesn't really seem to bother you, (which is convenient, since it is really bad on the LG OLEDs) and now that you have a 2017 LG OLED, you rave about how much better the near-black handling is compared to your 2016, I would have to conclude that there exists a credibility problem when you go around AVS always trying to minimize the differences in processing, above black handling, etc. Ignorance is bliss. Until you bring a Sony with an X1 Extreme into your home, you do not know what you have been missing.

How can you go around saying the differences are so minimal when all you have is LG OLED and you never tried a Sony (LCD or OLED) in the last few years? I am not talking about your two-generation old 940c, I am talking about Sony's latest and greatest.

You tried to dismiss or minimize the above-black issues (and motion) with your 2016 B6, until you got your 2017, and now that you have moved on to 2017 models, you are raving about how much the processing is improved, the above black handling is so much better, etc.

You know what I noticed? When you compare LG to Sony, it's always the mantra of the differences are minimal and almost inconsequential, so go with the cheaper, slicker-running LG. When you compare your new 2017 LG to your 2016 LG, all of a sudden the differences seem very appreciable and momentous.

The difference between you and me is that I buy both LG and Sony, and then I tell the truth about the real differences, and don't try to downplay them, since I can keep whichever I want. You only buy LG in the last few years, and then try to persuade everyone that the Sony is not really any better, and the price difference is not justified.

You had a revelation about near-black handling and processing when you bought your 2017 LG OLED. Try buying the Sony OLED and then perhaps you will have another epiphany, as you can then defend something that you own, rather than making conjectures about something you do not.

Recall, D-Nice had to set you straight when you tried to claim that the LG OLED was being more faithful to the source when it showed all the contouring/posterization. The worse the processing is, the more faithful it is to the source, according to Ken.

D-Nice also said the Q7 (not even Samsung's flagship) had better processing than his C7.

You can't both be right.
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post #355 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:17 PM
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^^Some have really inhaled that magic dust, though, and they are convinced that everything else is inferior (mainly US A1E owners). I'd hate to think how Panasonic would shatter their impressions.
The Panasonic is much more expensive than the A1E, and lacks the promise of Dolby Vision. It does not have the innovative acoustic surface either. It had better be noticeably superior for the expensive price they are asking, considering it has no DV.

Even if Panasonic did offer their OLED in the USA, I probably would not buy it. I do not have to have the absolute best, if it is way overpriced for what you get. If the Panasonic is better than the Sony I would have no trouble admitting it. I doubt it is thousands of dollars worth better.

I want the best bang for the buck, which is why I didn't care about being the first to buy an A1E as some kind of status symbol. I am quite pleased that I saved thousands by waiting a few months and I only paid $700 more over the LG.
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post #356 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:31 PM
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Currently, ALL OLEDs are Beta Models, with work in progress to rectify their issues.
Why I'm fence sitting - once they get a TV set that's done right, then I'll think about it.

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post #357 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:33 PM
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You might find yourself having missed the boat by then. Emissive tech has a way of dying off before (or just as) it reaches its zenith, and then you're left waiting all over again for the next dark knight.
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post #358 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:34 PM
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Can someone condense a two liner recap for me?

"Best Overall TV of 2017" Winner: Panasonic EZ1002

Runner-up (by less than 1 point): LG B7


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post #359 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:34 PM
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Exclamation Time for a Recap Post

Note: For those who just want to cut through all the back-and-forth discussions/debates/arguments/and BS, I have taken all the relevant info, including pics and videos, from both Shootout Threads and included it in this one post. I apologize if I have missed anything (or anyone).


UK 2017 TV Shootout

Held at the Harefield Academy in Uxbridge (London, England), Sunday August 13

Spoiler!


Participating TVs (all 65"):

• LG B7 OLED TV (OLED65B7V)

• Panasonic EZ1002 OLED TV (TX-65EZ1002)

• Sony A1 OLED TV (KD-65A1)

• Samsung Q9 QLED TV (QE65Q9F)

• Sony ZD9 LED LCD TV (KD-65ZD9)


Reference/Mastering Monitor:

30" Sony BVM-X300 4K HDR OLED ($30K)


Note: The TVs were all calibrated to 200 nits by "HDTVTest’s" Editor and calibrator Vincent Teoh with assistance from Tyler Pruitt (Portrait Displays) and compared to the Sony reference studio monitor.


Results/Winners:


Best HDR TV: LG B7 OLED

Best Gaming TV: LG B7 OLED

Best Living Room TV: Sony A1 OLED

Best Home Theater TV: Panasonic EZ1002 OLED

Best Overall TV of 2017: Panasonic EZ1002 OLED

Winner!: OLED TVs (Sorry LCD TVs )


Scoring:

Spoiler!


Individual Category Scores:

Spoiler!


Overall Award Scores:

Spoiler!


LINK to the Flat Panel HD Article:

>OLED took home all awards at HDTVTest's annual TV shootout<




LINK to the AVS Shootout Thread:

>UK 2017 HDTVtest TV Shootout<


LINK to Mark's Article (& Thread):

>HDTVtest 2017 TV Shootout: Panasonic EZ1002 OLED Takes Top Prize<


Here are 2 great posts from one of the attendees @RobertR1

[POST #1 l POST #2]

And here's one from another attendee @ARROW-AV [LINK]


Keeping Things in Perspective

Spoiler!


Shootout Pics:

Spoiler!


YouTube Videos:



Special thanks to "HDTVtest"; retailer "Crampton & Moore"; "Vincent Teoh"; @WiFi-Spy ; @ARROW-AV ; @RobertR1 ; and all other participants, judges, and attendees.


Richard

Last edited by King Richard; 08-21-2017 at 05:04 PM.
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post #360 of 473 Old 08-19-2017, 06:41 PM
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Two different shootout results beg to differ.
One shootout was judged by a paltry 4 people (who may be "professionals" in the industry, but that does not make them the best TV reviewers, as was obvious from that fellow who was interviewed on Home Theater Geeks), and the other shootout involved regular folks, amateurs, what have you.

Sony said the Z9D remains their reference HDR display, and Vincent Teoh said he can agree with that viewpoint. All I know is that it takes training to know what to look for when evaluating displays, and Vincent I can tell has a discerning eye, the rest of the folks at the shootouts, who knows?

D-Nice has a discerning eye when it comes to colors. I would never dream of arguing with him over those. But he doesn't notice phosphor trails and I do, so even industry experts do not have 100% golden eyesight

I have been setting high-end/flagship FP displays side by side with HDMI splitters for several years, and I honestly notice things that others do not. That is why I simply do not fully trust or care what these shootouts say. I would prefer to just buy the displays myself and set 'em side by side and not let others dictate to me what is best.

All I can say is that LG processing and motion is once again disappointing for 2017, and no one can convince me otherwise. The inferior processing (especially the false contouring) and motion trumps any smaller differences in ABL or pop in HDR.

If I want REAL pop in HDR on films with real highlights above 700 or 800 nits, I will go watch my Z9D thank you very much. I do not need an LG for that, especially one that has goal-post or jailbar vertical stripes on murky gray scenes.

If I want to watch sports, I will quite likely prefer the A1E to the Z9D because of the faster pixel response time, and no dirty screen effect.

If my A1E comes with vertical stripe banding like my LG OLED, or vignetting/reverse vignetting, I will cherish my Z9D even more, since it has none of that and looks great on films that have a lot of dim gray scenes.
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