HDTVtest TV Shootout Results: OLED Sweeps All Categories - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
I agree with you. I really don't see any degradiation of quality on off axis viewing with OLED either. One reason that I like OLED, since I am used to Plasma and just one of the many reasons why Plasma owners graviate to OLED.
I agree.
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post #212 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 05:09 PM
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In the end oleds despite some short comings like uniformity are one of if not the best way to watch movies, sports and gaming...their is a reason why I own two of them, imho I believe they provide the best pq available, I'm not saying that as a way to impose my opinion on others, it's just my belief.
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post #213 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 06:48 PM
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Samsung exaggerates on this issue, My bananas do not look like their demo.

losservatore's bananas:



Samsung's bananas:



'Nuff said!


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post #214 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 06:51 PM
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Not being rude... Simply taking the time to try to inform you with respect to something you might have been interested to learn about... Just because you yourself can't 'see it' doesn't mean it isn't so... Metamerism is another phenomenon that might similarly be of interest to you (if you don't know what it is google it ) where again just because two colours might appear to be the same it doesn't make it so.

Either way, if it helps I absolutely agree with you that OLEDs have a massive advantage over LCD TV with respect to viewing angles. I'm just being fastidious with respect to factual accuracy... that is all. You can't say it is the same identical image, because it is not... but you can say it looks like it's the same identical image
.
Corect, the only two display tech that do not have off axis viewing issues are CRT and Plasma.
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post #215 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 07:33 PM
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Corect, the only two display tech that do not have off axis viewing issues are CRT and Plasma.
What about RGB OLED?

And what about top-emission WOLED? (coming soon )
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post #216 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 07:48 PM
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Sorry to burst your bubble gentlemen but the 'ultra-wide-viewing-angle' claims often made regarding OLED TVs as compared with LCD are in reality a myth... If you care at all about image quality including especially colour accuracy then you really need to be viewing ALL TVs on-axis. Period.

OLED TVs suffer significant degradation in image quality when viewed off-axis... not with respect to the saturation or luminosity, as per LCD TVs, but with respect to colour shift and consequently colour accuracy is significantly skewed, and you will be experiencing a considerable and very noticeable blue push for starters... Any professional video calibrator who knows what he is talking about will confirm this. So even with OLEDs it is highly recommended that you view them on-axis for the best picture quality.
There is a tinting change (slight in my experience), but I do find that contrast holds perfectly on my 2016 G6. I noticed it extensively at the beginning of ownership, but it's amazing how desensitized I've become to it because I can scarcely detect it on the 77" as I did on the 65" I purchased prior.

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So, we'd say that Ken you have made a very wise investment purchasing a 77" LG G7 OLED TV!
And by comparison I suspect I made a very dumb investment (though I don't consider a depreciating asset much of an investment to be fair) by getting the 2016 model. I am actually disappointed in it but not for any reasons you elucidate (I.e. less peak brightness, ABL, etc.) but instead its lack of flagship plasma near black uniformity.

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Given 3D is (understandably) of importance to you fine gentlemen then it's clear that you definitely have purchased the right TVs for you
And me, I hope.
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post #217 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 07:56 PM
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Exclamation Keeping Things in Perspective

I think that it's noteworthy that there was less than 1 point (0.61) separating the Winner and Runner-up for the "Best Overall TV of 2017" award/title.

[Panasonic EZ1002 (32.99 points) / LG B7 (32.38 points)]

Personally, I would pretty much consider it a tie for 1st place. (Not to mention the fact that the Panasonic is not available to purchase in North America and is quite a bit more expensive than the LG.)

It should also be noted that they each received 2 "awards/trophies" (Pana: "Best Home Theater TV" & "Best Overall TV of 2017"; LG: "Best HDR TV" & "Best Gaming TV"), with Sony (A1) taking the last one for "Best Living Room TV".

It should also be noted that the Sony TVs did win the "Video Processing" and "Motion" categories.

Lastly, as @imagic was quick to point out , the two LCD/LED TVs did in fact outperform the OLEDs in the "Bright Room" category (the Q9 edging-out the ZD9 in this case - most likely due to it's superior anti-reflective coating).

I should also add that both @ARROW-AV and @RobertR1 , who were both at the Shootout, felt that the LG B7 should have been the overall winner (their pick) and that the Sony ZD9 should have been the runner-up for "Best HDR TV" (instead of the Pana).

(Oh and, Al still believes the Sony A1 is the best. )

Just trying to keep things in perspective!



Richard
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post #218 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
I think that it's noteworthy that there was less than 1 point separating the Winner and Runner-up for the "Best Overall TV of 2017" award/title.

[Panasonic EZ1002 (33.99 points) / LG B7 (32.38 points)]

Personally, I would pretty much consider it a tie for 1st place. (Not to mention that the Panasonic is not available to purchase in North America.)

It should also be noted that they each received 2 "awards/trophies" (Pana: "Best Home Theater TV" & "Best Overall TV of 2017"; LG: "Best HDR TV" & "Best Gaming TV"), with Sony taking the last one for "Best Living Room TV".

It should also be noted that, as @imagic was quick to point out , the to LCD/LED TVs did in fact outperform the OLEDs in the "Bright Room" category (the Q9 edging-out the ZD9 in this case - most likely due to it's superior anti-reflective coatings).

Lastly, it should also be pointed-out that the Sony TVs did win the "Video Processing" and "Motion" categories.

Just trying to keep things in perspective!



Richard
Lol as I once heard, no points for second place😉
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post #219 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:00 PM
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I consider the bright room category to be little more than a participation trophy, though I am a prototypical AVS forumgoer so it matters little what I think on a broader market basis. :X
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post #220 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I consider the bright room category to be little more than a participation trophy, though I am a prototypical AVS forumgoer so it matters little what I think on a broader market basis. :X
Lmao!
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post #221 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
I think that it's noteworthy that there was less than 1 point separating the Winner and Runner-up for the "Best Overall TV of 2017" award/title.

[Panasonic EZ1002 (32.99 points) / LG B7 (32.38 points)]

Personally, I would pretty much consider it a tie for 1st place. (Not to mention the fact that the Panasonic is not available to purchase in North America.)

It should also be noted that they each received 2 "awards/trophies" (Pana: "Best Home Theater TV" & "Best Overall TV of 2017"; LG: "Best HDR TV" & "Best Gaming TV"), with Sony taking the last one for "Best Living Room TV".

It should also be noted that, as @imagic was quick to point out , the two LCD/LED TVs did in fact outperform the OLEDs in the "Bright Room" category (the Q9 edging-out the ZD9 in this case - most likely due to it's superior anti-reflective coatings).

Lastly, it should also be pointed-out that the Sony TVs did win the "Video Processing" and "Motion" categories.

Just trying to keep things in perspective!



Richard
Those who value bright over black shoukd choose class-leading LED /LCD (QLED or XLED or SLED) over OLED (I made Sony LED up ).

And those who only view from on-angle (or don't care about any viewers to the side) should consider the same...

To quote a poster at a local restaurant (apparently it's called the 'Selkirk Grace'):

"Some Folk hae meat that canna eat,
And some can eat that want it;
But we hae meat, and we can eat,
So let the Lord be Thanket!"
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post #222 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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I found very hard to believe that the people that buy this Qleds (Edge Lits) doesn't watch content in a dark environment.I think is a way to justify the purchase.

For now I just seat here enjoying the Oled either during the day or night till emissive Qled,If ever gets better than Oled.
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post #223 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:42 PM
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What about RGB OLED?
Whch one? My Lenovo laptop with a Samsung RGB OLED is worse than the LG OLED. The 2014 Samsung 55" OLED had better off axis viewing compared to LG but was still inferior to their F8500 at that time.

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And what about top-emission WOLED? (coming soon )
Won't comment on vaporware
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post #224 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
In the end oleds despite some short comings like uniformity are one of if not the best way to watch movies, sports and gaming...their is a reason why I own two of them, imho I believe they provide the best pq available, I'm not saying that as a way to impose my opinion on others, it's just my belief.
Agreed. I spent a lot of time watching content between all the most current sets. My first HDTV was the Samsung HLR5087W pedestal model. It still works perfect today and maked DVD's look like HD with the DNiE setting on. Blacks looked great on them because it's DLP with an extra black matte screen and each mirror was its own pixel so it is very sharp. I then moved to a Samsung plasma PN64F8500 which had amazing "everything" and still is an awesome TV. My current OLED65G6P is even better than both of these sets at black levels, overal picture color quality, brightness..etc..

The only thing is motion is not as good as either the DLP or Plasma. A trade off but worth it. I did try the Z9D and as great as it is for blacks and brightness, you have to be standing directly in front of it to get that. I always sit off axis and never being able to get true blacks along with excessive halows at my current viewing angle made it a no brainer to go with the OLED. And if it wasn't for 3D going away, I would have bought a 2017 or wait until 2018 for a new set.

Overall most people agree OLED's provide the best all around quality at the moment, whatever the brand that is using the panels.

OLED65G6P(last US 3D OLED), PN64F8500(last Plasma), HLR5087W(Kirk Model Pedestal DLP)

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post #225 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 08:51 PM
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Whch one? My Lenovo laptop with a Samsung RGB OLED is worse than the LG OLED. The 2014 Samsung 55" OLED had better off axis viewing compared to LG but was still inferior to their F8500 at that time.
Was thinking about the Samsung RGB OLED TV - if you say it was inferior in off-axis viewing compared to a plasma, that's good enough for me...

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Won't comment on vaporware
Won't be vaporware for much longer (2019, chance for 2018 - we'll know in a month at CEDIA): https://www.researchgate.net/profile...1b39b1534d.pdf
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post #226 of 473 Old 08-15-2017, 09:23 PM
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So because I'm not a professional calibrator your saying I'm wrong? Just because I disagree doesn't discount what I SEE. Remember not all Professional Calibrators are infallible. Viewing angles are one of Oleds greatest strengths for a reason. And no I don't have a problem understanding what your trying to say, but just because it was mentioned in that shootout doesn't make it the end all be all. Not everyone is going to agree with your assessment. That is why we are here.
Firstly, it's not MY assessment... Secondly, it's not up for discussion because it isn't subjective and hence not a matter of opinion... The fact that OLED displays experience a colour shift when viewed off-axis is an irrefutable objective fact that can easily be proven using professional video measuring equipment such as a profiled colorimeter and calibrated spectroradiometer.

You will note that I have NOT stated that the shift is massive or huge... it is slight but significant to the extent that you are quite simply factually incorrect when you state it's "the same exact pic when viewing at wide angles".

And to reiterate (again) just to be perfectly crystal clear, LCD TVs suffer from a significantly greater severity of image quality reduction when viewed off axis as compared with this. Therefore, OLEDs most certainly DO have a significant advantage as compared with LCD TVs with respect to viewing off axis. I have stated this repeatedly now so please kindly acknowledge this.

But you are quite simply incorrect if you are of the opinion that there is absolutely zero reduction in video performance when viewing OLEDs off axis... It's considerably less than with LCDs which can be so bad that they become unwatchable, and the video performance quality reduction is limited to just colour shift, and not any lessening of luminosity, contrast, or colour saturation, and it certainly does not render the viewing unwatchable as happens with LCD... but it is not the same identical video performance. Sorry, but that is quite simply not factually correct.

I am not making a big deal about this, and I have diplomatically suggested that you don't either. Like I have already said, if you can't even see this happening then don't worry about it!

I'm not going to argue with you any more about this because you can argue that you think black is white as much as you like but it won't make it so. Either accept this or move on.

.
From what angle are you talking about? Behind the TV?
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post #227 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 12:31 AM
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I found very hard to believe that the people that buy this Qleds (Edge Lits) doesn't watch content in a dark environment.I think is a way to justify the purchase.

For now I just seat here enjoying the Oled either during the day or night till emissive Qled,If ever gets better than Oled.
Well believe it. There are probably a significant percentage of folks out there that don't turn off the lights a majority of the time and/or have windowed environments during the day when they watch TV. They may be eating at the same time, or mutitasking. I am one of those people, most of my friends and family are too. I haven't purchased anything so my statement isn't to justify a purchase, but if I did purchase QLED, it would be due to my habits and viewing enviroment, not some lame excuse to justify a purchase. That assumption is lame.
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post #228 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 12:48 AM
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Well believe it. There are probably a significant percentage of folks out there that don't turn off the lights a majority of the time and/or have windowed environments during the day when they watch TV. They may be eating at the same time, or mutitasking. I am one of those people, most of my friends and family are too. I haven't purchased anything so my statement isn't to justify a purchase, but if I did purchase QLED, it would be due to my habits and viewing enviroment, not some lame excuse to justify a purchase. That assumption is lame.
I Still don't believe. Many of those that were saying this jumped to Oled or FALD.


So you don't wish those Qleds were FALD? Brand loyalty can also play a role and I don't see anything wrong with that,Samsung have a good image processing.I was a fan of Panasonic ,but I've been getting used to what others brands offer.

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post #229 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 03:12 AM
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I get it, but it still seems like your trying to discount what I SEE. Now your talking about factual accuracy as if I'm just completely lost in the sauce. Again I disagree with you, you disagree with me and let's leave it at that😊
This is one of those phenomenon that some people notice but others do not... File 'Colour Shift with OLED Off-Axis Viewing' in the same category as the 'Rainbow Effect' that afflicts single-chip DLP projectors (N.B. those who are not in the know google it) where some people can see this, others seemingly cannot; so, with respect to the former it is an issue but with respect to the latter it doesn't bother in the slightest because these folks don't notice it at all. So, count yourself one of the lucky ones! And as such like I already said, if you yourself can't see it then quite simply don't worry about it! And I would certainly recommend following Mark's (imagic) advice, namely:

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My advice is since you don't see it, don't go looking for it. Because, you know how it goes, once you notice a flaw in a display technology, you see it forever and ever and ever and it is just a curse.
Unfortunately many of our clients can and do see this, but it's instantly cured simply by viewing on axis. We have a responsiblity to make people aware of the positives and negatives of all types of display technologies, so you will have to please excuse my pointing this out and correcting the common misperception that with OLEDs the image is exactly identical when viewed off-axis as compared with on-axis. As I see it the most important subject of debate here is how much of a problem is this to most people? Where I am sure at least on this we can both agree that with respect to many people, your good self included, it's a complete non-issue. Agreed?
.

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post #230 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 03:23 AM
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Correct, the only two display tech that do not have off axis viewing issues are CRT and Plasma.
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yup, yellows is where you see the issue most pronounced. And the blue measurement in Rtings.com graph of off-axis response shows it.

So there it is. The problem exists, it's minor, ignore it, or better yet don't sit way off-axis when critically viewing any TV where you want as close to reference accuracy as you can get.
Thank you gentlemen



And for the benefit of anyone reading this I've taken the liberty of highlighting the part that I consider everyone should take away from this, which I could not have said better myself
.

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post #231 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 03:30 AM
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Thank you gentlemen



And for the benefit of anyone reading this I've taken the liberty of highlighting the part that I consider everyone should take away from this, which I could not have said better myself
.
I wouldn't constitute ratings as a very reliable source, they've been know to muck up reviews...however the consensus on this is still pretty split...so theirs that. And not a knock on D-Nice, but just because he might be inclined to agree with your views still doesn't prove your point. However I might concede that maybe, just maybe I might be one of the lucky ones with near perfect 360 degrees of viewing angle!

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post #232 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 03:42 AM
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I wouldn't constitute ratings as a very reliable source, they've been know to muck up reviews...however the consensus on this is still pretty split...so theirs that. And not a knock on D-Nice, but just because he might be inclined to agree with your views still doesn't prove your point.
WOW. OK then... before I 'prove it' please kindly confirm, what is my point?

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However I might concede that maybe, just maybe I might be one of the lucky ones with near perfect 360 degrees of viewing angle!
Your TV has a 360 degree viewing angle...
.

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post #233 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 03:52 AM
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WOW. OK then... before I 'prove it' please kindly confirm, what is my point?

Your TV has a 360 degree viewing angle...
.
That's my question what is your point??? I mean are you trying to prove to me that oleds viewing angles degrade??? If so by how many degrees? And more specifically are we talking extreme angles where it simply becomes irrelevant. My point to you sir is that I believe your assessment on oled viewing angles is slightly wrong, in the end its my opinion and I'm not supporting it with any facts documents reviews or shootouts, I don't need that to support what is my opnion...If the these sets do have any degradation it is simply hard to notice. I have two oleds and yet to see any of it on either of them. And yes 360...its the new flavor out their.

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post #234 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 04:04 AM
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That's my question what is your point??? I mean are you trying to prove to me that oleds viewing angles degrade??? If so by how many degrees? And more specifically are we talking extreme angles where it simply becomes irrelevant. My point to you sir is that I believe your assessment on oled viewing angles is slightly wrong, in the end its my opinion and I'm not supporting it with any facts documents reviews or shootouts, I don't need that to support what is my opnion...If the these sets do have any degradation it is simply hard to notice. I have two oleds and yet to see any of it on either of them. And yes 360...its the new flavor out their.
360 would mean that you could see the picture from behind the display.....you know, kind of like superman with xray vision.
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
360 would mean that you could see the picture from behind the display.....you know, kind of like superman with xray vision.
Exactly my point!!! Had to use a little sarcasm for a little levity...fun little discussion!
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post #236 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 04:07 AM
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Gotch ya. Haven't had my coffee yet. lol
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post #237 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
360 would mean that you could see the picture from behind the display.....you know, kind of like superman with xray vision.

Well actually...

Technically speaking (since this is the AVScience Forum), even Superman, with his x-ray vision, would still not be able to see the picture from behind the display.

Just sayin'

(And... YES, Superman is real!!!)



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post #238 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
In the end oleds despite some short comings like uniformity are one of if not the best way to watch movies, sports and gaming...their is a reason why I own two of them, imho I believe they provide the best pq available, I'm not saying that as a way to impose my opinion on others, it's just my belief.
That about sums it up. Perfect? No. Overall very satisfying? Hellz yeah. Movies IMO is where they shine though. My blu-ray catalog has never looked better. Its like watching many of my favs all over again.
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post #239 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
I wouldn't constitute ratings as a very reliable source, they've been know to muck up reviews...however the consensus on this is still pretty split...so theirs that. And not a knock on D-Nice, but just because he might be inclined to agree with your views still doesn't prove your point. However I might concede that maybe, just maybe I might be one of the lucky ones with near perfect 360 degrees of viewing angle!
Okay let's put it simple. Rtings did not muck up the measurement. The issue exists. It's irrelevant what the consensus is on a fact, aside from showing that sometimes people will deny them!

You and a couple other people can say that it in your own opinion and to your eyes, perceptually it is a non-issue, and be accurate. But you can't claim that it is simply something that doesn't exist, because it does. That's how it works. It's a fact that there is an off-axis color shift with OLED. End of story.

Oh and you are knocking D-Nice. And other people who have put a meter on OLEDs, or seen the effect with their own eyes. Just to be clear, you are arguing against a fact. Which means you are wrong. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
Exactly my point!!! Had to use a little sarcasm for a little levity...fun little discussion!
As for that levity and 360-degree viewing angles on an OLED... How did you get your hands on one of these?


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Last edited by imagic; 08-16-2017 at 05:34 AM.
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post #240 of 473 Old 08-16-2017, 05:32 AM
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