Sharp LC-45GX6U Owner's Thread..... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 05:55 PM
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Just tried to display some pictures using the PC card.

Now, digital camera pictures have a 4:3 ratio (I think) and when I zoomed the image to fill the screen, it was abnormally stretched....which I expected.

Next, I took my picture in my laptop and croped it to 16:9 ratio to get a full, undistorted image on the Sharp. When I displayed this... the Sharp AVC unit added black bars above and below to convert my 16:9 picture to 4:3... what the heck!? It was obvious that no thought went in to designing this software. We want an undistorted 16:9 glorious picture that fills the screen!!!

So next I took my just converted 16:9 ratio picture and rescaled it using photoshop to 4:3 (without constraining proportions). It obviously looked stretched. When you display that in Sharp with zoom, it looks perfect! Fills the screen, all picture, beautiful color, and no burn in worries (although I wouldn't push my luck). I don't think the image was 1:1 mapping with the jpeg file but it was still great.

The Sharp AVC box is quite primitive by today's PC standards and I hope that they will do a software update to address some of the issues that have been raised in some other posts. The box certainly does not seem designed to take advantage of the incredible resolution of this panel. I wonder if they could release web software updates that can be uploaded by end users through the front PC card slot or the back slots.

With a blank static picture, I tempted fate to look for any other dead pixels. The one stuck in green that I noticed the first night was the only one I saw. Relief.......
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post #92 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 06:08 PM
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chp5592,

I saw somewhere else that photos were always displayed at 640x480, then upconverted to the display resolution? Seems like your above post disconfirms that point, but I want to make sure:

.jpg Images on the PC card are displayed at full resolution?

Steve
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post #93 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 06:16 PM
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Flash picture
LL
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post #94 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 06:17 PM
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No flash picture. The picture is definitely higher than 640x480. I would have noticed the pixelation if it was 640x480 upconverted by the AVC.

It could be 1280x1024... Image is "sharp" on 45 inch without artifacts.
LL
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post #95 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 06:48 PM
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clearly >> 640x480

I had suspected that the display resolution would be better than the recording. I believe I posted so last week. Thanks for confirming.

How about video? :)

You can still do all this over HTPC, but I guess in the meantime, $50 gets you a cool slideshow w/o having to mess with a graphics card and the DVI switcher.
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post #96 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 06:52 PM
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oh, also.. I thought there was some menu settings for displaying PC card pics in different aspect ratios. Did you check that out, chp?
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post #97 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeremys
oh, also.. I thought there was some menu settings for displaying PC card pics in different aspect ratios. Did you check that out, chp?
I just checked. You can input sound from another input during a slide show but I didn't see anything about changing aspect ratio. I should however read the instructions to make sure...:)
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post #98 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 07:10 PM
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I know there is something about the PC card and aspect ratio. Maybe it is just for recording.. on the right most column under "video <some word I forget>" output?
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post #99 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sawyer

That 3rd 'stange' cable from the AVC box to the panel is what is called "HDMI" and what we've been having problems with, as matter of fact. This carries both high bandwith video signals (about 365 Mhz) to allow 1920 x 1080 signals at 60hz and audio as well....all in one small cable.
Sawyer
I don't thnk that third cable is HDMI. HDMI is much thinner and doesn't have the things on the
side to release it. The third connector is a good bit thicker than HDMI I think.

-pdm
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post #100 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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These cables are both HDMI but the Sharp has a proprietary jack that has 20 pins and is female, while the standard HDMI has 18 pins and is male.

I'm not sure why they didn't use the standard jack. It may have something to do with HDCP or just that they want you to use a Sharp cable between the AVC box and the panel. Kinda the same way that every cell phone you buy has a different jack for its headset / power cord, etc.

Another similarity is how USB cables will be used in a proprietary manner with digital cameras. My Minolta USB connection to the computer has a USB jack on one end and a small female square jack on the other, while my Olympus has a larger rectangular jack on the other.

The CEMs would go ballistic if they found out that you were sneaking around using the same cable for the same devices made by different manufacturers.


I ran into a pleasant surprise though, during this investigation. The AVC box has a ieee1394 jack that I was not aware of.

I wonder if this is backward compatible with the Mitstubishi 1394 system or maybe the sony system.

Also the Tivo has a USB :confused: .....I had mentioned in an earlier post that I was going to attempt to run a DVI splitter out of the Tivo and use one of the DVI's as an input to one of the future PC HDTV cards that allows DVI inputs (but currently maxes out at S-video) so that you could archive the Tivo hard drive over to the HTPC and burn DVD's from the terabyte drives. At least standard definition for now....but ultimately by blue ray to HD-DVDs.

Has anyone monkeyed with the USB's on the HD Tivo? Sorry? Chuck?


One last question for the guys who have tried the Gefen switcher. I am assuming it is set up to switch DVI-I, right?

So if I ran my analog vga with the DVI adapter on the end (making it DVI-A), 1st, will the Gefen box accept it, and 2nd would the panel accept 1920 x 1080 analog.....straight in from the video card and bypassing the AVC box?


Last thing on the list. Regarding standard definition, I've noticed quite a few 'jaggies' from sub-par scaling on a few sources, including standard cable by component input and satellite signal by component input.

I want to think it was JKA or Mike53 that had run a DVDO iScan plus into the panel and bypassed the AVC scaler. Could you swap back and forth to see which scaling was superior? Now that outboard scalers are becoming more and more affordable.....and the insinuation that the AVC box is 1995 technology.....a nice scaler may be a realistic option.

Sawyer
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post #101 of 1906 Old 10-21-2004, 10:45 PM
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Sawyer,

I don't know if the switcher will handle the "analog" option on a DVI-I. I was only using digital signals on it. More importantly, I don't think the panel's input is DVI-I. I'd suspect it's digital only. But......I've been wrong before. I didn't think the single-link DVI cable from my PC to the Gefen box would work either! :rolleyes:

Phoenix
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post #102 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 01:30 AM
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"I'm not sure why they didn't use the standard jack. It may have something to do with HDCP...."

That's not the reason I'm quite sure as all HDMI is HDCP protected at this point.

As for your question about the HD Tivo, the USB ports don't do anything at this time.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #103 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 01:42 AM
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MSUDawg (or others):

I notice that you have wall mounted your unit.

Did you use the Sharp mount (AN-37AG2) or third party model?

If Sharp, does the mount have the ability to offset the center of the display left and right (by how much?) or is it not adjustable left & right?

If third party, what model and did you have to get an adapter plate or did the standard universal plasma / LCD mount work?

Thanks,

Marcel J. Dumeny
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post #104 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sawyer
sorry:

Out of curiousity...what was the other HDMI device that you bought the Gefen HDMI switcher for? besides the HD Tivo? Is there a DVD player out yet with it?
I have the Denon 3910 DVD player, which has an HDMI output.
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post #105 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 07:26 AM
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Sawyer:

Yes, the DVDO Iscan HD works plugged directly into the panel (bypassing the avc), at 1920x1080 native.

And I don't think the adapted dvi cable will switch through the gefen, though I've personally never tried it.

Marcel:

You can use a Vesa 200 compatible wall mount with the sharp. Sanus makes a nice universal bracket called a vmpl2, or vmpl50, both should work fine.


Jason

AKA Jason Kuenkler
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post #106 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marcel J. Dumeny
MSUDawg (or others):
If Sharp, does the mount have the ability to offset the center of the display left and right (by how much?) or is it not adjustable left & right?

If third party, what model and did you have to get an adapter plate or did the standard universal plasma / LCD mount work?
I used the "Sanus VMPLS Silver Universal Plasma TV Wall Mount Bracket
". There was no adapter required, it just went right onto the back of
the sharp. There are 4 buttons covering up the screw holes on the back of the display.
This seems like a great mount. You can move the tv from left to right quite a b it, as it just
hangs in this track, and you can slide it left to right in that track. It also allows you to
tilt it if you want or lay flat.
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post #107 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 09:12 AM
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I changed the cable configuration so that the 3-headed sharp cable was between the gefen dvi out and the panel, the other 2-cables are single link connections. Still no sync. I ordered a dual link from newegg, but I'm wondering if how much difference it is going to make because the avc box works fine with a single link cable between the gefen dvi out and the panel.

Something strange is going on with the panel not reporting 1280X720 when fed that res through the avc. I could have sworn that it was reporting 1280X720 yesterday and now it only shows 1280X768. The screen resolution clearly changes when switched from 1280X768 to 1280X720 as 1280X720 and 1920X1080 resolution images fill the screen completely. A 1280X720 test pattern that measures over/underscan shows zero over/underscan.
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post #108 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 09:18 AM
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MSUDawg,

It looks like you're a Mac OSX user (from your website). Have you tried using a Mac with the Sharp? I'm planning to do it with a PowerBook G4.

TIA,

Dennis
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post #109 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 10:40 AM
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I still can't get DVI to work out of my voom STB.

Has anyone got a HDCP DVI signal to work over the DVI input?
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post #110 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 11:04 AM
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Doesn't the Sharp actually deinterlace 1080i for real? They've had that technology for a while now.... The iScan -- merits notwithstanding -- does not do true 1080i deinterlacing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #111 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chavel
I changed the cable configuration so that the 3-headed sharp cable was between the gefen dvi out and the panel, the other 2-cables are single link connections. Still no sync. I ordered a dual link from newegg, but I'm wondering if how much difference it is going to make because the avc box works fine with a single link cable between the gefen dvi out and the panel.

Something strange is going on with the panel not reporting 1280X720 when fed that res through the avc. I could have sworn that it was reporting 1280X720 yesterday and now it only shows 1280X768. The screen resolution clearly changes when switched from 1280X768 to 1280X720 as 1280X720 and 1920X1080 resolution images fill the screen completely. A 1280X720 test pattern that measures over/underscan shows zero over/underscan.
Try these steps to see if you can get 1080P direct to the panel. I have tried it three times thus far and it worked each time. You will need to ditch the Gefen switch for this procedure. You can connect the Gefen back up once you are done.
1. Configure PC to output 1280X720 60Hz and connect to the PC's DVI output to the AVC box's input and connect the panel's DVI to the AVC's DVI ouptput.
2. Select Input 5 with Digital PC source. Selecting Digital AV source will not always get you to 1080P. Sometimes you will get stuck with a incompatible 1080i output with this procedure. Don't worry... You can switch back to Digital AV once later.
3. Go to device settings under the nView controls. Select "Fixed Aspect Raito Scaling" and click OK. You should now get a pop-up on the panel warning you that it is unable to display the current input.
4. After clicking okay then connect PC's DVI output to the panels DVI input. After doing this you will still see a 1280X720 60Hz screen. The 6800 is actually sending a 1920X1080P 60Hz signal to the panel now. It is just scaling the 1280X720 resolution.
5. Change the computers resolution to 1920X1080 and you will have a 1080P display.
6. Next connect the panel's DVI's input back to the AVC box output and select digital AV source. This will get you the added benefit of not having the panel shut off while the PC is booting.
7. Last step is to connect the panel DVI's input back to the PC's output and your are all set to go.

Before doing this I recommend doing what ever calibration you need to do before performing this procedure. You will not be able to see the panels menus and the computer display at the same time once you are done.

I hope this procedure helps. It works for me every time I have tried it with my 6800 GT.
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post #112 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Doesn't the Sharp actually deinterlace 1080i for real? They've had that technology for a while now.... The iScan -- merits notwithstanding -- does not do true 1080i deinterlacing.
I would hope the Sharp 45 does a good job of deinterlacing 1080i on it's own:

The iScan is a nice processor but the Sharp AVC box should do a good job without requiring an external processor

[Mike 53: if I had my LC45 I could check this out myself ;) )

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post #113 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 01:55 PM
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Here is an update on the tests I conducted last night.

I first spent some time working on ruling out any thing that might have caused the blurring issue besides the panels pixel response time. First connected a different dual like cable between my panel and the PC. I noticed no visiable difference in the blurring.

Second I tested many different resolutions and notice no visable change. I also tried letting both the 6800 and the AVC box scale lower resolutions like 1280X720. All had no visable effect on the blurring.

Lastly I reviewed all panel and driver settings. The only thing I found that slightly helped with blurring was proper calibration of black levels. Optimal black level setting I found with my computer output under normal view conditions was backlight -16, constrast +25 and brightness +2. The blurr is still there. I can only conclude I am wittnessing a pixel response issue from the panel itself.

I then played both Doom 3, Call Of Duty: UO and the new Lesuire Suit Larry game. I didn't notice the blurr in Doom3. It was slightly noticable in CoD: UO. The blurr was most noticable in Lesuire Suit Larry. So far I am leaning towards the blurr being a minor annoyance during most game play. I still need more game time with other games to forumulate a better opinion. I will have another gamer friend come over this weekend so I can get his opinion.

The last test I did for the night was to run Doom 3 timedemo at 1280X720P wtih both the AVC box scaling and the 6800 scaling. There was a 0.25% decrease in fps when the 6800 was scaling compared to the AVC box. Looks like "Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling" of the 6800 does make a very small impact to overall all fps.
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post #114 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 02:35 PM
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It seems that when I tune to a channel with a dolby digital audio track, like HD channels, the TV pops up a warning that it has detected an incompatible audio type. Now, I don't use any audio features of the AVC or Panel. I have the optical output of my HD DirecTivo box going direct to my Yamaha receiver. The AVC unit is receiving audio only as a side effect of me using the HDMI cable.

Is there a way to make this warning not show up?

Thanks,
-pdm
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post #115 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 02:50 PM
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Recently got my 45gx6u... it's beautiful! I panicked when I saw the PC input resolution table in the manual, thank goodness google brought me here.

I bought mine (brand new unopened US version) from a guy via PayPal.. He had tons of positive Ebay feedback and I just called him up. Here was my cost/benefit analysis:

+ NO negative feedback, tons of high priced transactions
+ Price = $2500 less than msrp
+ quick shipping
- No receipt (didn't ask for one though)
- Scary since it was basically cash transaction
+ LCD = more durable than plasma, good QC reports on this one
+ warranty only one year, so it's really for insurance against a faulty display, but I figured they tested them before shipping

It was inexpensive, and I was able to order on the 11th. Well, everything went perfectly, and the display looks perfect. I wouldn't have done a plasma this way, but I figured the failure rate on this unit would be so low it was worth the risk for the savings for me... just in case some other brave soul wants a success story from somebody who ordered via "greyer channels". Not for everyone, but I came out happy :)

Now I need to figure out a quiet HTPC setup. Can I leave the AVC DVI unplugged from the panel if I only do PC and OTA hdtv without another dvi or hdmi device? Or do I need a switcher? Don't have a pc for it yet...
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post #116 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSUDawg
It seems that when I tune to a channel with a dolby digital audio track, like HD channels, the TV pops up a warning that it has detected an incompatible audio type. Now, I don't use any audio features of the AVC or Panel. I have the optical output of my HD DirecTivo box going direct to my Yamaha receiver. The AVC unit is receiving audio only as a side effect of me using the HDMI cable.

Is there a way to make this warning not show up?
I'm in the same boat, this is driving me crazy.

Surely there must be a way to tell the monitor not to worry about the sound signal? This doesn't seem very well thought-out; I can't believe most people who are dropping $6500+ for a display are using the built-in speaker...
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post #117 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 03:09 PM
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I've got a couple stupid question:
[list=1][*]Will the display panel work without the AVC box? From reading the manual it look like it has DVI-D and HDMI interfaces.[*]Also does the remote control the AVC the panel or both, and will it work to switch sources if you're not using the AVC?[/list=1]

It just seems like you shouldn't need the AVC if you've got a HTPC hooked up to the DVI interface and a HD-DirecTivo hooked to the HDMI interface. I would actually perfer to no use the AVC if I didn't have to.

It looks like the problem with the AVC passing PC video is the TMDS chip that they chose to use, it's unfortunate that they didn't use one that could handle 1920x1080. From reading the specs it's clear that it can only go to 1280x1024 (like old nVidia GF3 cards with the low bandwidth TMDS links built in). Sharp should have known better and should not have skimped here.

Sorry to be asking, but experimentation is the only solution since the manual says nothing about this...

-dwx
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post #118 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 03:18 PM
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dwx:

The Panel will work without the AVC box.

As long as you feed it a dvi digital input at a frequency it accepts (1920x1080 @60hz does work, as others have noted).

The remote just controls power on/off if you have the avc box disconnected.

There are no "inputs" other than the dvi on the back of the panel. And the other plug isn't just a regular hdmi interface, it has more pins, and I personally haven't tried anything else in there. I would presume you'll find nothing else will plug in.

Jason

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post #119 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 03:40 PM
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Laser,

Last night I played rainbow 6 on my xbox. I used the thermal view and stood by my friendly units and swirled around. Yeah, it looked blurry. The quick shoot seemed to reduce it quite a bit. This was the only way I could see motion blur and know it was the response time.

I think this is somewhat expected. It isn't 3ms response and you may get some laggy response that is detected by your eye. For me, this will be a small percentage of the time. I'll take this trade-off for the myriad of benefits that LCD has to offer.

jeremy
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post #120 of 1906 Old 10-22-2004, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JKA/V
dwx:

The Panel will work without the AVC box.

As long as you feed it a dvi digital input at a frequency it accepts (1920x1080 @60hz does work, as others have noted).

The remote just controls power on/off if you have the avc box disconnected.

There are no "inputs" other than the dvi on the back of the panel. And the other plug isn't just a regular hdmi interface, it has more pins, and I personally haven't tried anything else in there. I would presume you'll find nothing else will plug in.

Jason
So can you plug the proprietary cable into the AVC and the DVI to your HTPC and have the thing work? or must both cables be plugged into the AVC for the setup to function?

-dwx
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Closed Thread OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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