Pan TH-42PHD7UY Black level changing - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 12:37 PM
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RichB, could you try your tests without Cinema mode?

tks,

Ty
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post #92 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 12:43 PM
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TW,

I'll join the desenting chorus. I just today replaced the 42PHD7 with the 50PHD7 and after a quick check with the movie where I first saw the problem on the 42 the change in brightness doesn't appear on the 50. I also agree that it is very annoying; I can't imagine how it could be seen as a positive "feature." (For Ty, FYI I saw the problem on cinema mode.)

I was also experiencing a problem on the 42PHD7 when changing the picture control--on some of the settings the brightness would increase slightly, only to drop again on the next setting. Definitely broken. That doesn't happen on the 50 either.

I'm much happier now and I'm optimistic the positive trend will continue on other movies.

Steve
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post #93 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 01:15 PM
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The Picture control erratic brightness settings is on all 7UYs as far as I know. It is independent of input source. (see my webpage ... http://www.lakemercedcoc.org/plasma).

I don't think I've heard or seen any comment / acknowledgement on this issue from TW or Panasonic. Early on VA confirmed the problem over the phone and verbally said it was normal and common on lots of plasmas (??). Although screwy, it doesn't immediately impact PQ so it's not as high as priority for me as the main s-video probs or the brghtness issues that the HD owners are seeing.

I'm surprised you don't see it on your 50HD... I'm almost positive other 50HD owners have reported it. I agree it's not normal, but other than making calibration a little more difficult, it doesn't seem to have a daily impact on PQ.

John
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post #94 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 02:14 PM
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I have had more time to watch my 42PWD panel this weekend. It is there, but it is not that pronounced. It does not fluctuate wildly during normal viewing and overall, it is not distracting. I may not be experiencing the same symptoms as reported by others, but for me, I'm happy with the PQ and will be keeping the panel. BTW at 10' the PQ is superior to my 38" 1080i RCA CRT (and it is much thinner and lighter).
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post #95 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 03:29 PM
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There was something on there web site that talks about brightness level adjustment to prevent burn in. This sounds like what the Wiz is talking about. I think the malfunction lies on this brightness level adjustment. I'm almost wainting to refuse my package tomorrow. but i'll accept it and see how it goes. i hope any day panasonic will release a statment.

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post #96 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhanson
The Picture control erratic brightness settings is on all 7UYs as far as I know. It is independent of input source. (see my webpage ... http://www.lakemercedcoc.org/plasma).

...

I'm surprised you don't see it on your 50HD... I'm almost positive other 50HD owners have reported it. I agree it's not normal, but other than making calibration a little more difficult, it doesn't seem to have a daily impact on PQ.

John
John,

I tried it again and it did occur on the higher end of the Picture setting (i.e. >= 9). Since I had done all of my adjustments below that point I didn't see it.

Steve
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post #97 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 04:08 PM
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The problem does seem most pronounced between Picture settings of 10 to 20 for some reason. ???
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post #98 of 449 Old 12-21-2004, 04:11 PM
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Except that on the 42PHD7 it occurred at -3, -4, 1, 7, etc. So it was more in the "sweet spot".

Steve
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post #99 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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No word from Panasonic or Visual Apex about the TH-42PHD7UY level defect. I think I am getting stonewalled.

I am trying to start a return to VA as the plasma is unwatchable in its current condition. VA has been somewhat responsive, but have been trying to push off this defect on Panasonic, who in turn has "officially" said and done nothing.

Jim
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post #100 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 04:38 PM
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I was just going to purchase the HD-7UY from VA.

Are you all saying it's unwatchable?

I thought the problems were only with the s-video connection.

I thought the picture was perfect when watching HD content throught component.

My friend has the 42-PX20 and it is simply stunning.

I can't believe the new 7UY is worse thatn the PX-20 which is based off of the 6UY.
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post #101 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 04:58 PM
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I have a 42hd7uy. (Build: Oct 2004)
It is very watchable.

I am letting my panel get some time on it before I go crazy tweaking the settings. So far I have not tested with the test disk. I have a few things I have noticed (in this thread) and I am keeping tabs so I can doc it and report back to the company I bought it from just in case it needs attention.

So far most of the HD content I have seen via component is stunning.
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post #102 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 05:57 PM
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Darthbimmer,

I would hold off if at all possible until we get some sort of resolution/explanation from Panasonic.

-Pete
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post #103 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Darthbimmer

I have not "tweaked" or even have a tuning DVD, but I currently would hold off on any 7UY purchase.

In my experience the black level changes on OTA broadcasts (and any other input) are so severe, that although the majority of times the picture is stunning, any scene with a large amount of black will strobe between dark black and a lighter black as the scene content changes is extremely distracting. This is unacceptable behavior from any HDTV, never mind a $4,000 plasma.

Currently I am awaiting word from Visual Apex and Panasonic. They were supposed to reply by last Friday (12/24) but no response yet. I am afraid that everyone is trying to "sweep this one under the carpet".

Jim
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post #104 of 449 Old 12-28-2004, 06:54 PM
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Darthbimmer, this is a PM that i sent to Ross who was also looking into getting a 7UY and it basically says how I feel about it.

Hi Ross, I see that you're looking at getting one of the 7UYs. I am currently an owner of a 42"PHD7UY and am honestly not satisfied with the purchase because it just doesn't work like it should. The black level problem on my unit which is discussed in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=473893 really makes watching tv and movies distracting. Now that I know there's a problem it is hard for me to enjoy watching movies because now I'm sensitive to the brightness change and notice it every time it happens. Since you said you'd be watching SD tv most of the time over composite and S-video I don't see how the problems described on John's page at http://www.lakemercedcoc.org/plasma/ can be overlooked. I am really particular about the way the picture looks and personally want it to be as close to flawless as possible. The only way I would recommend one of these units to you is if you wouldn't be bothered by these (big, in my opinion) problems. I would not advise making a huge $3500 dollar purchase if you know that there are problems with what you are going to receive. Panasonic has been unresponsive to the problem and have been a hassle to work with, and visual apex has just said over and over again "we'll pass it on to panasonic" I don't believe either deserve your business at the moment. It has been two months since i got my plasma and reported the problems and I am still on square 1 when it comes to getting things resolved. My suggestion to you is to buy a NEC plasma display which has also gotten great reviews on this forum and have been said to have much more vibrant colors than the Panasonic but slightly worse blacks or to not buy the Panasonic until these problems are resolved. I must admit that the picture quality of the Panasonic is good but it is in my view over shadowed by these problems. Well... that's my take. I hope it helps
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post #105 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 08:48 AM
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Reports here have stated that the picture quality of the 7UY is better than that of the 6UY (and by extension the PX20/25).

The primary problem being discussed on this thread isn't the s-video problem, which is a case of uneven brightness across an image (it is a "spacial" aberration). The issue described here is a slight change in brightness that occurs evenly across the image as scenes change (it is a "temporal" aberration). Brightness changes slightly in response to the contents of the image, which is especially noticable in black bars (i.e. letter or pillar boxing).

It does not render the image unwatchable by any means. But if you're sensitive to it you may find yourself sitting there and thinking to yourself "I paid $XXX for this thing why should I have to put up with this imperfection?" It can be irritating. However, some people don't notice it. I watched the movie Babe and saw it happening many times but my wife never noticed it once. I still enjoyed the movie a lot and it looked great. But every now and then this subtle change in brightness occurred and it drew my attention away from the movie.

For my part I chose to exchange the 42PHD for the 50PHD (which doesn't have the problem) and I'm glad for the extra screen size. I just didn't want to wait around for Panasonic to get a fix for it. I'm also not near a service center so the idea of having to take the display somewhere to have a fix made didn't appeal to me. Since it appears to be model-specific I don't think a simple blade replacement will fix the problem. (With the s-video issue the fix will be to simply replace the s-video blade.) There is some suggestion that a service menu change may address the 42PHD problem, but as I said I didn't want to wait and the extra size wasn't an issue for me.

Steve
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post #106 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 09:37 AM
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As a new purchaser of the 42HD7UY, I would recommend waiting until news of a fix comes through. I find the set beautiful when the brightness is stable, but fatally flawed due to this issue as it occurs frequently, sometimes several times a minute. VA has said they are waiting for an answer from Panasonic, supposedly imminent, but still no word. I don't recommend purchasing this unit until this is worked out.
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post #107 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 09:58 AM
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I know this is of little consolation but the factory has been informed of this issue and is seriously taking it under consideration. That they have reacted positively on the S-Video related issue is good news.

As is their tradition, all Matsushita factories are on winter holiday, called their "Golden Week" until Jan. 7 so I would not expect any type of answer before Jan. 10th.

T. Wiz

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post #108 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 10:55 AM
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Thanks for the update TW. Do you think it's possible the 7th gen consumer version might have the uneven brightness taken care of? Or are the manufactuering lines/plans layed too out in advance?
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post #109 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 12:24 PM
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I have had my pwd7uy for about a week have not seen the shift in black. If i would have paid that kind of money for hd set i would want it to be perfect to. The s-vid is no concern for me because i don't use it. I have not had any problems with my panny. not to get off the subject can some tell me where i can get the lock(pac-130 or pac-135) for my pro2051 cheif mount. sorry for getting off the subject I just can't find it. thanks

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post #110 of 449 Old 12-29-2004, 01:35 PM
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I should note that before I returned my 42PHD I did work with VA and Panasonic on it and was satisified that both were taking it seriously. It was not being swept under the rug. It gave me confidence that they were going to address it, but these things always take some time and we won't hear anything until they have a fix in hand. I didn't need that tension of waiting for a resolution (as others are experiencing on this thread) so I switched to a different model.

If it were me I'd wait on the 42PHD until you know the nature of the fix. If you're looking at another 7UY model model I'd say go for it. I can personally endorse the 50PHD over component, for example.

Steve
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post #111 of 449 Old 12-31-2004, 03:08 PM
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Is everyone a 150% sure that brightness problems are not due to the HD source?

My friend has the Panny 42-PX20 HD model and I noticed changes in brightness levels on his set. But, only when we watched ABC and NBC. This doesn't happen when we watched the Holiday Bowl last night on ESPN HD. Nor does this ever happen on HD NET.

We were briefly watching "My Best Friends Wedding" on ABC HD last night and even my wife noticed that the screen gets brighter and then dimmer, this happened often. We then watched the football game and didn't notice it.

Later that night, we watched Torque on Cinemax HD (awesome PQ by the way) and didn't notice it.

I have been holding off on purchasing the 7UY because of these issues. If the "brightness issues" are what I described above then I can live with it, because it only happens on lower content HD.

Can anyone confirm that these problems exist when watching HD NET or any of the bowl games on ESPN HD?

Thanks.
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post #112 of 449 Old 12-31-2004, 03:23 PM
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As I watch my 42hd7uy (Oct 2004) more I have noticed the brightness changing depending on the channel and of course content. This is using component with a 3250 Scientific Atlanta Cable device from TW.

One channel I have seen this happen most often is Discovery HD with still nature shots. The PQ is stunning but you can see the brightness changing ever so little. This channel the brightness effect is very consistent - like a heart beat.

TNT HD (Law and Order) and ABC HD (LOST) don't see to have the issue or is it that I am looking at the good looking woman more then the PQ and brightness... :)

Both of those shows PQ is stunning!

For those who have seen this effect on the HD7uy have you noticed similar symptoms?
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post #113 of 449 Old 12-31-2004, 05:27 PM
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spa, i was just curious if you had to pay the shipping fees for the exchange or if VA payed for them, since there was a defect with your TV

Darthbimmer, I have noticed the brightness change on all channels, it just depends on the content. You cant notice it during football because of how bright everything is. It is easiest to notice the brightness change in dark parts of the screen. For instance on ESPN HD it is easy to see the HD logos on the right and left side of the screen change, during commercials. It is also very noticeable while watching DVDs because of the many dark scenes that take place in movies, not to mention the blatant brightness changes that take place in the letter-boxed portion of the screen. Like I said above when replying to Ross, if I were you I would hold off until these problems are solved or get the NEC which is almost the same price.
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post #114 of 449 Old 12-31-2004, 10:58 PM
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Rishky,

I agree with you that I should hold off. But, I am worried that Panasonic won't address this issue.

I know "unofficially" they are aware of the s-video problem, but I am haven't heard the same thing regarding the PHD's brightness problem. Am I wrong?

I really want the Panasonic. If the fix is within a couple of weeks that won't be a problem, but I am worried it could take months or not happen at all.

Has Panasonic moved swiftly in the past regarding any issues with their plasma's?
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post #115 of 449 Old 01-01-2005, 01:31 PM
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Moderator(s) - Should this not be a sticky along with the SVideo problem at the top of the forum ?
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post #116 of 449 Old 01-01-2005, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Moderator(s) - Should this not be a sticky along with the SVideo problem at the top of the forum ?
Please make it a sticky.

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post #117 of 449 Old 01-01-2005, 11:30 PM
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so, what's the verdict here people? I'm saving up money for a 42in. ED plasma and just start seeing these threads about the Panny 42WD that I wanted. How's Visual Apex about these problems? Say I buy one from them and notice the problems after I take delivery, are they pretty good about taking it back and send me out a new one? I know the NECs' plasma are pretty good also, we have one at work. But the reason why I wanted the Panasonics' plasma is that everyone here seems to be pretty happy about the Panny's black-levels after upgrading from CRTs.

So the problem is more common among the HD7 models, they're a few members reporting it coming from the WD7 models is this thread, is it safe for me to assume that the EDs are more satisfactory in the PQ w/ the overall 7th generation?

Just looked at the VA return policy and found this paragraph towards the end of the policy statement : "Within 30 days of purchase, and after a brief technical consultation with the sales/technical support representative, Visual Apex will replace any defective Panasonic Professional plasma display or projector."

Should I get it and if there's a problem have VA send me a new one?
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post #118 of 449 Old 01-02-2005, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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BlazeMaster

I would hold off on any Panasonic purchase from Visual Apex. Although they have been somewhat responsive, Panasonic has not officially said anything about the 7UY problems, both on ED and HD units! Until it becomes an official problem, my feeling from VA is that the units are not "defective" yet, although the defects (s-video and black levels) are verifiable and affect many of the ED and HD units.

VA said that Panasonic would have a statement on my HD black level problems by 12/24/2004, but so far nothing from Panasonic and VA has stopped responding to my emails, not a good sign.

Jim
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post #119 of 449 Old 01-02-2005, 07:56 PM
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that sucks, I was all excited that I was going to get it soon. So how long should I wait for Panasonic to make a statement about this? And where can I find the statement when it is announced?
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post #120 of 449 Old 01-03-2005, 10:34 AM
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by the way, just posted in the sticky for all 7uy problems. but I have a 507UY that I was calibrating via DVE yesterday and when adjusting picture setting, as I increase or decrease it, the black level alternates and changes bright to dark, etc... I now have it set at -9 where it seems at -10 it doesn't change. but at -8 it's brighter, but -7 it's darker, -6 brigheter, -5 darker. etc..

That being said, I have never noticed anything watching TV or dvd's. so I guess it's now just being picky?
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