My NEC 50-XR4 arrived today - experience so far and initial impressions - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 176 Old 01-05-2005, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Options2000
Bodegabay,
I am really interested in XR4. How would you compare it to Fuji P50 (30).

Thanks.
The Fujitsu 50" (their 55" models do not impress me) models of current and past gens have always seem to be reference standards for me. It uses the Panny glass which is the source for their excellent blacks. However, their electronics seem to be much superior vs. Panasonic's. I would say the Fujitsus (including the model 30) has greater color punch and better light output vs. the current 7uy Panny. The Fujitsu certainly excelled with SD material and DVD sources. But with HD content, I have yet to see it match the intensity of the NEC. HD material on the NEC is ADDICTIVE. And this is coming from a jaded user who has owned a plasma for two years and has had HD for four years. With the NEC, it feels like a person who has just seen HD for the first time. With this in mind, I have become less enamoured with the Fujitsu's. Certainly I cannot recommend spending an additonal $3-4K for the P50.
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post #92 of 176 Old 01-05-2005, 09:08 AM
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Getting back to the original question of the difference between the XM3 and the XM4:

XM3 has 16,770,000 colors (colours for you canucks) in 256 levels
XM4 has 68 BILLION colors in 4,096 steps

XM3 consumes 480W typical, XM4 is 435W

XM3 half-life is 30,000 hours, XM4 is 60,000

If you do opt for the XM3 make sure you get the silver (XM3/S) model as it's DVI is HDCP compatible, the gray XM3 is not
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post #93 of 176 Old 01-05-2005, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sunra
Getting back to the original question of the difference between the XM3 and the XM4:

XM3 has 16,770,000 colors (colours for you canucks) in 256 levels
XM4 has 68 BILLION colors in 4,096 steps

XM3 consumes 480W typical, XM4 is 435W

XM3 half-life is 30,000 hours, XM4 is 60,000

If you do opt for the XM3 make sure you get the silver (XM3/S) model as it's DVI is HDCP compatible, the gray XM3 is not
Thanks Sunra -- that was quite helpful.
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post #94 of 176 Old 01-06-2005, 08:32 PM
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On another note, my neighbor just received the Panny 65 inch plasma and he is unhappy with it after seeing mine. I just came back from his house and I understand why. To see all the detail in the Panny you have to watch in a darkened room, also, the image appears softer although I don't know why that should be.


This is an interesting finding from the NEC service mode post by Rabushka. Again, it boils down to how you like your plasma -- "loud" and vibrant or subdued and composed.

I was had lunch in a casino sports bar type restaurant today and they had ten 50" Mitsubishis on the L and R walls and four 61" on the front wall. While they were previous gen NECs, they certainly kept people mesmerized, even with SD material. Some of the units have static images last few times I was there but showed regular material this time around. There were no visible signs of phosphor burn in. I do envy the brushed aluminum fascia though...
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post #95 of 176 Old 01-06-2005, 11:05 PM
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After months of reading (and debating...and, anguish) I have narrowed down my search to NEC 50XM4 or Panasonic 50PHD7UY. I haven't seen either of the two, however I am comfortable making the purchase based on postings in this forum. Thank you. Here are my remaining questions:

For NEC XM4/XR4: Can S-video and DVI share an audio. I am thinking of connecting my cable HD STB to S-video for SD and DVI for HD, thus need one audio input as common. Hopefully, this will take care of any SD PQ issues (like color wash-out), if found.
I will connect my HTPC to the VGA input, DVD player to RCA component and the satellite STB to the BNC input via a VGA breakout cable. Any issues with these planned connections?

For NEC XM4/XR4: I have read that XM4 suffers from image retention issue for about 200 hours. Is this still true? Does XR4 owners see the same thing?

For NEC XM4/XR4: Is the fan noise common with all sets? What is the "worst" here, i.e. at what distance is it audible in a fairly large, quiet room?

For NEC XM4/XR4: Is there any real video advantage that XR4 has over XM4?

For Panny 7UY: Is the S-video issue still common with even the latest 7UY sets? Is Panasonic taking any actions to fix this?

Thanks again for all the help that I have gotten from this forum.

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post #96 of 176 Old 01-07-2005, 02:06 PM
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All comments below are for the XR4 that has been up for about a week now:

I've seen the image retention, but I have not reached the 200 hour mark to let you know if it stops happening. It is temporary retention, not burn-in in case anyone is confused.

Won't comment on the hookup, I'm not the most qualified to answer that one.

Fan noise can be heard on my unit from about 12 feet in a quiet room. Obviously, with no sound, but it can be heard in quiet scenes. This is my one complaint about the unit. We've discussed this in more detail above.

I would still highly reccommend this plasma.

Don
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post #97 of 176 Old 01-08-2005, 02:33 PM
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I was looking at the PDF on the NEX and it states that the component inputs are hd, but doesn't same the same for the DVI input. Under the inputs section it lists HD1 as component and HD2 as the BNC component. It states that the DVI port is the RGB 3. I would assume that the DVI will accept HD signals, but I wanted to get confirmation from someone who ones the set. Thanks for you help


Matt
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post #98 of 176 Old 01-08-2005, 03:02 PM
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one other thing, how is the fan noise after time. does it go down, is it more, is it possible to record?
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post #99 of 176 Old 01-09-2005, 12:40 PM
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Just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this. I, like many, am deciding between the 50" NEC and Panny. The information from this thread will undoubtedly leave me more confident in my "blind" decision.
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post #100 of 176 Old 01-09-2005, 12:45 PM
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New member here... after lurking for several weeks and doing some "window shopping" at local stores, I'm going to purchase the NEC 50-XR4. The amount of detail present in this thread is what pushed me over the top. Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences. This will be my first HDTV so I'm really looking forward to it. I'll post my impressions when everything arrives and gets set up (Jan 24 or thereabouts).

cr
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post #101 of 176 Old 01-09-2005, 03:32 PM
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Does this display have 3:2 pull-down? If not, is it a big negative?
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post #102 of 176 Old 01-09-2005, 06:51 PM
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With respect to image retention, I can tell that there has been a marked decrease on my XR4, currently with about 12 hours of use on it. Perhaps watching "Pitch Black" with its mix of intense daylight scenes (in "zoom" mode) had something to do with it...
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post #103 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 07:02 AM
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x-spyder-x: The DVI (HDCP) input is labeled RGB3 and it is the digital HD input. HD can also be input in analog form through the component inputs. Regarding the fan, I find it very quiet although my room does have an 18 ft ceiling and the display is 2 ft from the rear wall, if the set is wall mounted and you have low ceilings the noise may be more apparent. For comparison I had a JVC 52" RP which had a very loud fan which I could hear from 12 ft with the volume off. With the NEC with the volume off I cannot hear the fans from 4ft.

StockInv: The 50XM4 has 2-3 and 2-2 pulldown converters
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post #104 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 10:13 AM
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My 42" NEC XM2 is 14 months old and already has 3,800 hours on it.

I don't experience any image retention. The picture is still as vibrant and beautiful as when it first arrived.

RE: Audio connections.

There are three audio inputs and they can be assigned to one video input each. To "share" an audio input as suggested above, one would need to reassign it.

This could actually be quite simple with a programmable remote with macro capabilities.

I believe all the NEC discrete codes are "out there somewhere" and it would only be a matter of programming the remote to reassign the audio assignment upon switching video feeds.

Another option would be to use a splitter and split the audio from the tivo to two different audio inputs assigned to the S-Video and HD feeds. This would leave only one other audio input available.

This only matters to one who uses speakers connected to the PDP.
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post #105 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wblynch
... I believe all the NEC discrete codes are "out there somewhere" and it would only be a matter of programming the remote to reassign the audio assignment upon switching video feeds.
The discretes are on the NEC web page in numerous documents including the "Installation Guide" - at least for the 42VM5 I have been thinking about.
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post #106 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wblynch
My 42" NEC XM2 is 14 months old and already has 3,800 hours on it.

Thats almost 10 hours per day...and almost 15% of the half-life...whew
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post #107 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x-spyder-x
Thats almost 10 hours per day...and almost 15% of the half-life...whew
Subject of a long-term reliability test
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post #108 of 176 Old 01-10-2005, 08:25 PM
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Thanks Wblynch. I had a Fuji 50 (30) and you can assign the same audio input to more than one video so I thought may be NEC would have the same capability. No biggie.

I have decided to go with NEC....just one more hurdle. 50XR4 or XM4. Wife says she would prefer charcoal grey over silver thus XM4 got a big vote of approval, perhaps the biggest. Anything else that could overcome this and tilt it back in favor of XR4....like better PQ ?? Tomorrow could be a big day!

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post #109 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
one other thing, how is the fan noise after time. does it go down, is it more, is it possible to record?
Don't have the ability to record. The fan does seem to get louder at some times. I don't know for sure if it's the fan or just the ambient sound level in the room changes and I become more aware of the fan. Hearing the fans at four feet would have been fine, but I'm a little disappointed that I can hear from 20ft. I just measured and was a little surprised by the distance. The sound was not on, but it is a windy day outside creating some backround noise in the room. Keep in mind I have hardwood floors, basically no window treatments one sofa and one upholstered chair. Sound reflection from the room may have a lot to do with it. I have a window to the right of my display that may be bouncing the sound. As I walk toward the display it gets louder as expected, then much louder where it might bounce from the window, then actually a little quieter as I move even closer. I also have a horizontal beam running about 12 inches above the display. This might be reflecting the sound as well. This may be similar to driving next to a curb with your window down and hearing the sounds of the engine much more clearly. The sounds are bouncing off the curb instead of heading off unreflected. I'll try calling NEC to determine if something is wrong with the fans in my unit.

Image retention is still aparent. Watched some HD with black side bars last night for a few hours then swithced to HD without the bars. Whoa, a little distracting for about 3 minutes with the sides of the screen having a significantly different "brightness" to the picture. I thought image retention was from a bright image, not a dark one. Why do dark side bars affect the picture after they are removed?
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post #110 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 10:44 AM
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Picture of display in room for above post.
LL
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post #111 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dgsowers
I thought image retention was from a bright image, not a dark one. Why do dark side bars affect the picture after they are removed?
Well it is. You had the middle of the screen brighter than the rest of the screen (the sides) for an extended period of time. Someone on here described image-retention or burn-in as "uneven aging of the phosphors".

Sorry to wedge in here as a Panny owner but to those who are comparing Nec vs. Panny and are interested: my completely new pwd7uy shows not one hint of image-retention. I watched the extended edition of the Lord of the Rings: Return of the King in OAR (which show the black bars on top and bottom) and no perceptible change in brightness in those areas. (about 4 hours and 15 minutes if anyone is wondering :p ) Someone on here described a test done by Panasonic where they left a 4:3 image on there for 1000 hours straight and they measured only a 2.5% difference in brightness between the light and dark areas.

Having said that I don't think the NEC image-retention is going to be a problem or lead to burn-in but it is something to be careful about. with the panasonic, it is not even an issue anymore as far as I'm concerned. I've been treating mine just as I have been the crt's I own.
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post #112 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 01:51 PM
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I'm getting an XR4A later this week. Does anyone have any suggestions about breaking it in to avoid retention and/or burn-in?
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post #113 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 02:02 PM
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Also consider that wall you've got the plasma mounted on. It appears to be a semi-gloss painted wood. I'm sure the surface is highly noise reflective.

Just for an experiment, try taping some felt or flannel fabric to the wall behind the plasma and see if the sound is improved.
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post #114 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 02:06 PM
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For the first 200 hours or so I would avoid anything with bars. You can zoom (not stretch) 4:3 SD content to fill the screen and it looks fine. Don't be too paranoid though image retention goes away in a few minutes and after a few hundred hours of use it is far less noticeable. Image retention does equal burn-in.
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post #115 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 02:28 PM
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Why not stretch?

I agree with avoiding black bars for a while, but avoiding the Stadium stretch mode shouldn't impact image retention or break in.

I will say that 10 hours a day of CNN is bad because if that stupid "LIVE" bug in the upper left corner.

When we noticed what appeared to be a burned-in image, I ran the white reverse screen for 15 minutes and followed by a timed 3 min screen wipe every night at 3 am for 10 days.

The feared burned image was completely erased and the picture is as clear and vibrant as the day the set was installed.

So, more than avoiding even black bars, I would advise avoiding those stinking static bugs that so many stations force upon us.

The news crawl at the bottom seemed to have no ill effect on the NEC, however.
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post #116 of 176 Old 01-11-2005, 08:00 PM
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Does NEC XR4 (and XM4) have a built in 'orbitor' or some other burn-in prevention that can be activated on DVI and VGA port? If true, then cable box can be connected to the DVI port with this automatic burn-in feature enabled. Could this prevent "permanent" burn-in which this temporary image retention could potentially lead too?

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post #117 of 176 Old 01-12-2005, 06:37 AM
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Does anyone know of a place in MA (preferrably boston area), where I could see this tv?
I really want to hear how loud the fan is.

Thanks
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post #118 of 176 Old 01-12-2005, 09:43 AM
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Problem is even if you found an NEC in a store it's not likely to simulate the acoustics of your room. I have the 50XM4 on a table stand 2 ft from an 18 ft high wall in a room with a hardwood floor, with the volume off I cannot hear the fan beyond 4 ft away. Others who have wall mounted units with lower ceilings have heard the fans from further away. I can tell you the NEC fan is much, much quieter than the JVC 52" RP I auditioned for 3 weeks. If you're really desperate I can record the fan noise tonight and send you a file or PM me I can give you my phone number and hold the phone in front of the fan;)
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post #119 of 176 Old 01-12-2005, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sunra
If you're really desperate I can record the fan noise tonight and send you a file or PM me I can give you my phone number and hold the phone in front of the fan;)
Now thats customer service for ya!!!!

A couple of questions

1. Regarding fan noise, the people who have posted regarding the amount of noise, how do you have the display monunted, on wall, or on a table stand away from the wall.

2. sunra, what is your impression of your display, do you like it, what do you think about pq, black levels, kind of a mini review if you are able, or if you have already posted one and I missed it, a little guidance on where to find it, thanks

3. I am strongly considering this display, but am also very tempted by the Pioneer being offered by Costco based on the return policy. I know, by now I should know what I want, but you never know, and I am stricken with analysis paralyisis. I have already had to return a panasonic lcdrptv due to problems and don't want to have to go through that again. Anyway, what do people think about the two, advantages disadvantages. My opinion is that there are a lot of questions about the pio due to Costco having them specially built. Thanks in advance for the advice.
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post #120 of 176 Old 01-12-2005, 10:19 AM
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x-spyder-x
I am in the exact boat as you.
Trying to decide between pioneer, NEC and LG myself.
I would think the pioneer would be just as loud as the NEC.

Well I have 87" high ceilings. I plan on wall mounting and have hardwood floors, though there will be an area rug.

sunra thanks for the offer.

If you are willing to do it, could you record it about 1ft away from the front of the screen and send it to my email.
gepapa@yahoo.com

Thanks in advance if you can.
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