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Panasonic CES Teaser

23K views 156 replies 52 participants last post by  matwags 
#1 ·
#102 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by amirm
Sub-pixel control is unrelated to panel technology. The current displays already have access to individual color components. What I read here is that Panasonic scaler now uses subpixel addressing as additional measure of anti-aliasing. It is an interesting marketing technique to couch such a feature as increasing resolution. Sub-pixel filtering simply smoothes out high contrast edges. Instead of going from a white pixel to black for example, the display will now go from white, to blue, to black. Stand back far away enough and the edge would have smoother transitions. I guess since an additional sub-pixel is used here, one can say that in some situations, there is a 33% increase in effective resolution but the color pixels are obviously not the same as having additional triplets.


Microsoft clear type uses similar technology btw to get you smoother edges on fonts (a control panel setting for your desktop). But we don't say it increases resolution :).


Today is my free day to actually look around the show. I will stop by the Panasonic booth again and check out these displays and hopefully find someone knowledgable to ask questions.


Amir
Amir, thanks for the excellent explanation (also thanks to another poster who drew the parallel to Cleartype). I somehow suspected that this "resolution increase" is marketing BS. One more proof that in order to learn the truth, one must come to avsforum.:)


Having said that, the overall PQ resulting from the improved sub-pixel control may be better in the new Pannys and more like the result of Fujitsu's AVM.
 
#103 ·
Any idea why the newest Panny ad info isnt restating some of the ad jargon used on the 7th gen commercial models such as "Real Black Drive System" and "MACH" glass? A lot of it might be jargon but I would be comforted to know that all these improvements(or better) in the 7th gen commercial models are carried into the "8th" gen consumer models.


ss
 
#104 ·
I went by the Panasonic booth but unfortunately, there was no one to talk to. So no more info about sub-pixel technology.


However, I did get to see the V50 and V500 side by side. Sorry to say (since it costs more and available later), the 500 is much prettier. The 50 has silver speakers below it, ala Sharp LCD. Indeed, if you like the look of the Sharp LCDs with the speakers beneath them, you will be right at home with the 50 series. The 500 on the other hand, has curved silver bezel below it that looks much prettier to my eye.


Picture quality of course, was identical on both. The material being played alternated between decent and poor. There was a ton of contouring at times with severe aliasing of diagonal lines on a gird pattern in one of the clips. I am faily confident the former was in the source (MPEG-2 quanitization artifacts) to some extent but the latter, is hard to say. Hopefully the new sub-pixel filter didn't cause the stair-stepping on those clips. On good sources, the picture was quite nice.


Amir
 
#105 ·
I felt like the junk was almost surely in the source. Some of the clips ran elsewhere and appeared equivalently bad.


I tend to think the sub-pixel stuff is a lot like ClearType and similar things. I also tend to think that at normal viewing distances it's not going to matter a whole lot.
 
#110 ·
"Looks like cnet.com's ces coverage verifies the new 42 hd model will not have any resolution increase and will remain standard 1024 x 768"


It's 12+ months away to 1366 x 768 or 1280 x 720 at 42 inches.
 
#112 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by GmanAVS
BruZZi, many thanks for the clarification.

Do I understand correctly, if using the "glass" as the yardstick for panny sets, then the "new" 8th gen consumer models in fact will use the current 7th gen commercial glass... and that calling the "new" consumer models "8th" gen is just a marketing ploy?

Gianmarco
Quote:
Originally posted by nessus
I do not remember Panasonic referring to a feature like sub-pixel control before which indicates these models are indeed comprised of "8th" generation glass.
I don't think those Models announced are 8th Generation Panels .

Panasonic introduces new Generation Displays first in Japan (obviously :D) then USA and other Markets.

I don't see any info on their Japanese site about new Displays.


Sub-Pixel Control is also available on the Onyx Series. (I almost sure I saw somewhere mentioning the 7g Commercial Series having the same feature - Can't find the link :( ) .


And both Onyx and "7UY" Models are capable of displaying up to 8.6 billion colors.
 
#113 ·
Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.
 
#114 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.
OK. Not to try and pin you down regarding these variables but can you provide any speculation about what the higher resolutions might be for panels in the 50" - 65" range, a time frame for their introduction and the initial pricing?
 
#115 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.
Mark,

I also would very much like to 'hear' what you may know re: 1080P plasmas in the 60-65" size range. Time frame in particular.

Thanks,

Bish
 
#116 ·
I would be very suprised to see 1080p in the 50" size, at least not in the near term. I see them starting at 60" and above and then gradually working down in size.


At 10'+ viewing distances from a 50" plasma you will be hard pressed to appreciate the additional pixels in 1080p vs a 720p plasma.
 
#117 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by BruZZi
I don't think those Models announced are 8th Generation Panels .

Panasonic introduces new Generation Displays first in Japan (obviously :D) then USA and other Markets.

I don't see any info on their Japanese site about new Displays.


Sub-Pixel Control is also available on the Onyx Series. (I almost sure I saw somewhere mentioning the 7g Commercial Series having the same feature - Can't find the link :( ) .


And both Onyx and "7UY" Models are capable of displaying up to 8.6 billion colors.
However, the Panasonic website says that it is the "8th Generation Panel".

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...05/product.asp


Maybe it's just some marketing thing.
 
#118 ·
hoodlum, the reason the 65-inch plasma from Panasonic is 1366 x 768 is because the 50-inch plasmas is 1366 x 768. Once one domino fallls, the other one will fall too. Maybe not instantly, but in the near term....


nessus, the pixel count will be 1920 x 1080. It's likely those models will push the lower resolution ones aside after not too much time.... They will probably co-exist for a sub as Samsung will do with its DLP units -- some 720p, some 1080p at the same screen sizes.
 
#121 ·
I would suspect that the 42-inch would be 1280 x 720... Seems logical... But it might be 1280 x 768 or 1366 x 768.... I would also guess that's a lower priority than 1920 x 1080 at the larger sizes.
 
#123 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
I would suspect that the 42-inch would be 1280 x 720... Seems logical... But it might be 1280 x 768 or 1366 x 768.... I would also guess that's a lower priority than 1920 x 1080 at the larger sizes.
It seems Panasonic has been using this 1366 x 768 standard for it's 50" and larger panels for some time... So when will we see 1920 x 1080 in a 50" panel? Beginning with the Commercial models in Fall 05' or the Consumer series in Spring 06'? Any guess regarding the price?
 
#125 ·
The 657UY is coming down in price .


I did not wait and this is a great screen. The good and bad news is that there will always be a new, better, and cheaper panel :)


-- Rich
 
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