Panasonic CES Teaser - AVS Forum
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OLED Technology and Flat Panels General > Panasonic CES Teaser
ltw9's Avatar ltw9 10:40 PM 01-04-2005
Here is an early Panasonic pres release.

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...12&cont_id=841

tetra-pro's Avatar tetra-pro 04:51 AM 01-05-2005
"a 30% increase in horizontal resolution over last year’s models" .... Hmmm, wonder what they mean by this?
lacv75's Avatar lacv75 05:54 AM 01-05-2005
What new sizes are those?...
optivity's Avatar optivity 07:32 AM 01-05-2005
I'm curious to know how Panasonic will achieve a 30% increase in resolution for it's new PDP's? Maybe they have made the pitch size of the pixels smaller so more can be installed during the fabrication process? For example, on their 50" panel the pixel pitch is .81x.81mm. This yields 1366x768 or 1049088 pixels which is 51% of the HD spec. 1920x1080 (2073600 dots of resolution). If the approach to achieving an increase in display resolution is to add 30% more pixels (e.g. 314726 (314726+1049088=1363814) the net result may be to reach 66% of the full 1080i HD spec. The good news is there will be an increase in display resolution when the PDP is viewed from an optimal distance, and a reduction of the "screen-door" effect from closer proximity to the display. The "bad news" is by increasing the number of pixels in the display also adds to the possibility for a higher incidence of dead/stuck pixels, I wonder how that will be addressed? Of course this hypothesis could be (and probably is) "way off base!":confused:

(revised) Oops...:( "Hold the phone... Virginia" the press release claims a 30% increase in horizontal resolution (1766(?)x768=1363968).
StuartV's Avatar StuartV 07:52 AM 01-05-2005
It sounds to me like they're simply going from a 1024x768 display (like what my Vizio P42HD has) to 1280x768. The original quote there says a 30% increase in HORIZONTAL resolution, not total number of pixels. 1024 -> 1280 is a 25% increase, which, rounded off by Marketing works out to 30.

I have no idea what their current specs are, so my speculation could be pure hogwash.
jrock65's Avatar jrock65 07:54 AM 01-05-2005
"An expanded line of high-definition plasma TVs in new screen sizes, with integrated ASTC/NTSC/QAM tuners; CableCARDä, SD and HDMI compatibility; a 30% increase in horizontal resolution over last year’s models; 8.6 billion colors reproduction capability; and the highest contrast ratio in the industry."

Quite odd. They already have 37", 42", 50" and 65" plasmas, so "new screen size" must mean 55". Also 30% increase in horizontal resolution (no mention of increase in vertical resolution) sounds like an ALiS panel.

"8.6 billion colors": 7th generation glass?

"highest contrast ratio in the industry": so will it best LG's 5000:1 contrast ratio?
afiggatt's Avatar afiggatt 07:56 AM 01-05-2005
30% increase in horizontal resolution? If you go from 1024 to 1366 pixels, that works out to an 33% increase. 1280/1024 = 25% increase. 30% falls in between, but going to square pixels for the 42" HD at 1366x768 might fit. But we have already seen the new commercial 7UYs, is Panasonic indicating that they will be releasing new consumer Viera models with different sizes and resolutions than the commercial ones?
jrock65's Avatar jrock65 07:56 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by StuartV
It sounds to me like they're simply going from a 1024x768 display (like what my Vizio P42HD has) to 1280x768. The original quote there says a 30% increase in HORIZONTAL resolution, not total number of pixels. 1024 -> 1280 is a 25% increase, which, rounded off by Marketing works out to 30.

I have no idea what their current specs are, so my speculation could be pure hogwash.
Horizontal resolution means the latter number, so it could mean 1024x768 to 1024x1024.
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 08:01 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by afiggatt
30% increase in horizontal resolution? If you go from 1024 to 1366 pixels, that works out to an 33% increase. 1280/1024 = 25% increase. 30% falls in between, but going to square pixels for the 42" HD at 1366x768 might fit. But we have already seen the new commercial 7UYs, is Panasonic indicating that they will be releasing new consumer Viera models with different sizes and resolutions than the commercial ones?
What I was thinking.

ss
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 08:04 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by optivity
This yields 1366x768 or 1049088 pixels which is 51% of the HD spec. 1920x1080 (2073600 dots of resolution).
I like numbers as much as the next guy, but 1366x768p exceeds one of the HD specs - 720p and 1920x1080p exceeds both of the current HD specs.

ss
joemama127's Avatar joemama127 08:11 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by jrock65
"An expanded line of high-definition plasma TVs in new screen sizes, with integrated ASTC/NTSC/QAM tuners; CableCARDä, SD and HDMI compatibility; a 30% increase in horizontal resolution over last year’s models; 8.6 billion colors reproduction capability; and the highest contrast ratio in the industry."

Quite odd. They already have 37", 42", 50" and 65" plasmas, so "new screen size" must mean 55". Also 30% increase in horizontal resolution (no mention of increase in vertical resolution) sounds like an ALiS panel.

"8.6 billion colors": 7th generation glass?

"highest contrast ratio in the industry": so will it best LG's 5000:1 contrast ratio?
Maybe 40,46 and 55?
optivity's Avatar optivity 08:14 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by afiggatt
... we have already seen the new commercial 7UYs, is Panasonic indicating that they will be releasing new consumer Viera models with different sizes and resolutions than the commercial ones?
I believe that has been the speculation in this Forum since the release of the 7UY series. I'm wondering how Panasonic can introduce a successor to the Viera models with essentially the same display capabilities as the 7UY's and price them for $$$$ less than the ONYX?
Quote:
Originally posted by subysouth
I like numbers as much as the next guy, but 1366x768p exceeds one of the HD specs - 720p and 1920x1080p exceeds both of the current HD specs.

ss
Right. But since they already render the full 720p spec., any increase in resolution applies only to 1080i?
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 08:20 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by optivity
Right. But since they already render the full 720p spec., any increase in resolution applies only to 1080i?
Or they could be referring to the sub-actual 720p resolution models particularly those using off-square pixels such as the 1024x768 panels.

ss
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 08:23 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by jrock65
Horizontal resolution means the latter number, so it could mean 1024x768 to 1024x1024.
No....horizontal is the first number.

ss
jrock65's Avatar jrock65 09:43 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by subysouth
No....horizontal is the first number.

ss
I'm pretty sure horizontal resolution refers to the second number.

"Screen Resolution (Pixels, Vertical x Horizontal"

http://www.video-direct.com/panasoni...s/compare.html

"There are some variations in the conversion used for the different resolution models, which we will here call the 768 high def, or the 480 non-high def - representing the native horizontal resolution of the native pixel resolution figure."

http://www.dtvcity.com/plasmatvrevie...asonicres.html
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 09:51 AM 01-05-2005
Well, someone needs to get to CES to clear this up.

Rogo? ;)
optivity's Avatar optivity 09:56 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by R Harkness
Well, someone needs to get to CES to clear this up.

Rogo? ;)
Actually, we can all go... Well, that is if we are interested in what Panasonic has to offer...

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...s05_teaser.asp
Brainiac 5's Avatar Brainiac 5 11:16 AM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by jrock65
I'm pretty sure horizontal resolution refers to the second number.
...
"There are some variations in the conversion used for the different resolution models, which we will here call the 768 high def, or the 480 non-high def - representing the native horizontal resolution of the native pixel resolution figure."
Horizontal resolution, as in the number of pixel across the display horizontally, is the first number. I think the quote above is using confusing terminology. Further down on that web page, there's a heading "Signals from 240 to 480 horizontal lines of resolution, including VCR, cable, satellite." Since they use the phrase "horizontal lines of resolution," I think they are referring to the number of 1-pizel lines you could draw horizontally across the display, or in other words, the vertical resolution.

I think the other page mentioned is either doing the same thing, or just plain wrong. :)

Remember that people often mention that ED displays have the same vertical resolution as DVD, which has 720 pixels horizontally x 480 pixels vertically.

Also, while this isn't proof, it would be kind of odd for a display that is wider than it is tall to have more pixels vertically than it does horizontally.
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 11:21 AM 01-05-2005
Right, like braniac posted, horizontal lines that can be drawn = vertical resolution and vertical lines that can be drawn = horizontal resolution.

BUT horizontal resolution = horizontal resolution and thats the first number.

ss
Brainiac 5's Avatar Brainiac 5 11:27 AM 01-05-2005
Just one other thing I thought of about the resolution question - 852x480 and 1366x768 panels have square pixels. If the second number was the horizontal resolution, then they wouldn't - the pixels would have to be much wider than they are tall.
rogo's Avatar rogo 11:29 AM 01-05-2005
Hotizontal resolution definitely is the first number.

And thanks suby for correctly noting that 1366 x 768 displays are unequivocally HD, according to the "spec."

Mark
slb's Avatar slb 11:30 AM 01-05-2005
Off topic, but the article claims that Panasonic has the largest booth at CES. However, an AP article in this morning's business section stated that Samsung has the largest booth at over 25,000 sq-ft. The article also stated that Samsung will be showing off their 102" plasma display.

-Steve
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 12:57 PM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by Brainiac 5
Just one other thing I thought of about the resolution question - 852x480 and 1366x768 panels have square pixels. If the second number was the horizontal resolution, then they wouldn't - the pixels would have to be much wider than they are tall.
Right, there already exist several off-square pixel PDPs with resolutions such as 1024x768 and 1024x1024 on a 16:9 panel. Increasing the horizontal resolution on either of these would be a move towards remedying this off-square pixel shape.

ss
ltw9's Avatar ltw9 01:07 PM 01-05-2005
In pixel terms the 1st number represents horizontal pixel count.

In CRT terms the 2nd number would be the number of horizontal lines of resolution.

I guess we will have to wait for tomorrow's press release to see which way Panasonic likes to describe horizontal resolution!
afiggatt's Avatar afiggatt 02:19 PM 01-05-2005
Ok, there is now a Panasonic press release on the plasmas at http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=30531. Answers the question what the blurb meant with 30% increase on horizontal resolution. Answer: refers to their sub-pixel addressing. Umm, Ok.

The new models are listed as 480p or 720p, no actual pixel resolutions given. Ah, new marketing strategy at work. :rolleyes: The new model numbers are PD50U, PX50U, and the PX500U (!), not the PXS30 was long expected. The 37PX50U & 42PD50U are due in March, the 42PX50U & 50PX50U are due in April, and the new 42" & 50" 500U in June. Not clear on what the 500U offers.

Now for a lot of postings on what this all means.. :D
optivity's Avatar optivity 02:25 PM 01-05-2005
Quote:
Originally posted by afiggatt
Ok, there is now a Panasonic press release on the plasmas at http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=30531. Answers the question what the blurb meant with 30% increase on horizontal resolution. Answer: refers to their sub-pixel addressing. Umm, Ok.

The new models are listed as 480p or 720p, no actual pixel resolutions given. Ah, new marketing strategy at work. :rolleyes: The new model numbers are PD50U, PX50U, and the PX500U (!), not the PXS30 was long expected. The 37PX50U & 42PD50U are due in March, the 42PX50U & 50PX50U are due in April, and the new 42" & 50" 500U in June. Not clear on what the 500U offers.

Now for a lot of postings on what this all means.. :D
That was fast... I wonder what impact these new models will have on the pricing structure for the ONYX series PDP's?
cheridave's Avatar cheridave 02:34 PM 01-05-2005
It means that anybody wanting a Panasonic Consumer Model should now wait - reason........

720p.......

Its about time.

Dave
subysouth's Avatar subysouth 02:41 PM 01-05-2005
Hmmm a 1280x720 42" plasma. That would be worth waiting for.

I love rampant speculation.:p

ss
mike123abc's Avatar mike123abc 02:52 PM 01-05-2005
It is also interesting that the 42ED and 37HD are 4000:1 and the others at 3000:1... But, no cable card listed for 42ED and 37HD but have QAM tuners... Perhaps they left out cablecard by accident
ltw9's Avatar ltw9 02:54 PM 01-05-2005
Follow this link for pictures of new models. Notice no more bulky side speakers!

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...2&startIndex=6

edit:

Click on images/consumer electronics at top left part of page.
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