Official SED, Info, Discussion, Etc Thread!!! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2847 Old 10-06-2005, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper
Maybe you need to move this puppy, people are ignoring your suggestion.

larry
I haven't moderated in ages. I'll report.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #542 of 2847 Old 10-06-2005, 05:44 PM
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Where is it?

I must be missing something?

Dave

"Appeasment only makes the Aggressor more Aggressive"
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post #543 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 01:20 AM
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http://translate.google.com/translat...5%2Fdg51%2Ehtm

he latest SED news with some nice pics

Average Joe For those few who actually watch the content rather then the TV.

Question Everything....Assume nothing.
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post #544 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 03:05 AM
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VERY interesting read, thanks very much for the link!

SED:
- has problems with light reflections
- should be better almost everywhere compared to LCD/plasma
- should even be superior in some aspects to CRT
- first displays will be 55"
- production being 2006, probably high prices
- mass production 2007, falling prices

Panasonic 50" 1080p prototype:
- noticably worse shadow detail compared to 65" 1080p model
- noticably worse shadow detail compared to 50" 768p model
- release date still undecided

Pioneer 50" 1080p prototype:
- prototype can't use single side drive right now
- shadow detail etc almost similar to 5060
- red color needs some minor tweaking
- overall noticably better than the Panasonic 50" 1080p prototype
- release planned for soccer world cup 2006

P.S: Google only translates the SED part of the article. "babelfish.altavista.com" translates it all.
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post #545 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 04:27 AM
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Also in France:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/593-...sed-whaou.html
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/593-...-type-sed.html

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #546 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
It was kind of crazy, when the screen went black it was like the whole panel disappeared.
Indeed, at another Canon Expo in Paris, (see here ), they took a one-second photo of the three screens to exaggerate black level differences. This is the result:

http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos...IMG0014585.jpg

WRT availability, Toshiba wants to release first sets by late 2005, whereas Canon is only talking of releasing computer monitors by late '06- early '07. Price is supposed to be 'the same as same-sized LCD or plasmas'.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #547 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
Indeed, at another Canon Expo in Paris, (see here ), they took a one-second photo of the three screens to exaggerate black level differences. This is the result:

http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos...IMG0014585.jpg

WRT availability, Toshiba wants to release first sets by late 2005, whereas Canon is only talking of releasing computer monitors by late '06- early '07. Price is supposed to be 'the same as same-sized LCD or plasmas'.
Grubert - wow.

That's exactly what I see when I run my CRT right next to my Panny plasma with black screens. Not so exaggerated, but I see the plasma glow and it flattens the picture in the dark, no doubt about it.

But I am glad I got the Panny. It will carry me for the next 3-4 years, at which time the SEDs will (hopefully) mature into a premier display technology.
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post #548 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrog
http://translate.google.com/translat...5%2Fdg51%2Ehtm

he latest SED news with some nice pics
Thanks.

It's always incredibly aggravating how the translation engines only translate a portion of the web pages. Once it gets to the Panny report it goes back to Japanese. Does anyone know how to translate the full web pages?
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post #549 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 07:48 AM
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Rich, check out my previous comment above. There I've explained how to get the full text translated! ;)
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post #550 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 08:00 AM
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Here is the rest of the article



* Panasonic
- Displaying the 50V type full HD plasma experimental model



The Panasonic booth

As for shooting the first existence impression with the Panasonic booth 2 products of the full HD plasma of the 50V type which becomes beginning release with full HD plasma and latest CEATEC of 65V type.

As for "TH-65PX500" of the 65V type full HD plasma, in November sale is planned for realized price 99 ten thousand Yen.



Worldwide first 65V type full HD plasma TV "TH-65PX500" The 50V type full HD plasma television which is called worldwide smallest. For sample only type turn undecided


In the actualization of TH-65PX500 the panel formation technology which is designated "full HD PEAKS" had become the key. In case of PDP, when from the fact that gradation is done in time integral calculus system of blinking frequency, the number of pixels increases simply it stops being in time to blinking panel all the pixel. Then high-speed drive technology becomes necessary.

In addition, locking picture size, when the number of pixels becomes many, inevitably pixel size becomes small. If it becomes small, numerical aperture goes down and the luminous quantity decreases and becomes dark.


Panasonic being able to actualize the full HD plasma depends on full HD PEAKS technology

At Panasonic with the technical breakthrough which calls these problems "full HD PEAKS" the solution. Concretely it was some kind of device, it is not open, but the inert gas and it is luminous efficiency by the fact that it makes the new effective gas that 25% increase, high-speed drive where at identical pixel size comparison numerical aperture improves, 25% is enclosed into the pixel cell were compatible. This probably will put out the actualization of the 65V type full HD plasma advanced largely, is.

This time, with the 50V type full HD plasma of the 1,920×1,080 dot which has become beginning release, as for size per 1 pixel with 0.576×0.576mm, approximately it becomes with 1/2 to an area ratio by comparison with 0.81×0.81mm of current 50V type TH-50PX500 of the 1,366×768 dot. Even then, with this 50V type full HD plasma, you say that being able to achieve the brightness efficiency like TH-50PX500 it is with the multiplier effect of numerical aperture improvement and the radiation efficiency improvement such as that. 3,000:1 is praised concerning darkroom contrast efficiency.

The technical solution was carried out with 50V type the pixel partition which becomes harsh above 65V type (the rib) concerning the problem of refining and the durability, we have assumed that this contributed to 50V type full HD plasma actualization largely.

While we being making "undecided", closely examining in sale of the 50V type full HD plasma which becomes this first release the trend of other companies and the value which is calculated from the 50V type of the market we assumed that we would like to examine sale time and price.

Actually you tried looking at the image, but when you compare with TH-65PX500 of 65V type full HD, the dynamic range of brightness being low, it is dark. There is also a possibility the last spurt of picture pitch parameter being insufficient, but also dark space gradation being tend, to die in comparison with TH-50PX500 it was the impression that still the last spurt in the picture quality aspect it is not enough. Because sale time and degree of completion of the picture quality of TH-65PX500 which price has decided are high, arranging, being displayed, seeing, that difference of picture quality has appeared, it was harsh. Therefore very "sample only" probably will be, but.......



The photograph taken on the spot image of TH-65PX500. The size, 65V type there is a fine resolution impression


Method of coming out the color being plain, brightness power now one cord 50V type full HD plasma. In the future you expect to keeps becoming good





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Pioneer
- The 50V type full HD plasma is displayed, at present time degree of completion is highest


Pioneer booth


Also the pioneer displayed the experimental model of the full HD plasma of 50V type, directing in full HD resolution panel actualization at the 50V type size where this was called actualization difficulty after all did technical explanation.

As for becoming with the 50V type where after all pixel size becomes small problem at the time of full HD resolution actualizing it points out that it is luminous efficiency and high-speed drive. As for having become the leading figure who solves this problem, you say that "high purity crystal layer" of new development was.

You say that high purity crystal layer is formed by the glass baseplate of display surface side inside the pixel cell, inside the pixel cell is a quality where the self discharges the electron vis-a-vis plasma discharge. The discharge which is stabilized even inside the small-sized pixel cell this in full HD resolution was actualized, luminous efficiency 22% improvement, furthermore former ratio 3 time thing high-speed drive was made possible.



Size past ratio 47.5%, approximately half is small with identical size comparison, the full HD specifications PDP which become. Therefore very high efficiency was required High purity crystal layer became technical breakthrough for the pioneer


The high purity crystal layer which was developed because this full HD plasma is actualized is fed back by also the XGA model below the 1,280×768 dot, this has meant with to be preceded to sold from 2005 fall.


Projecting identical image, PX-436HD the right which becomes one side drive electric power consumption is smaller than tip generation PC-435HD. Numerical value in photograph the instantaneous electric power consumption る

If until recently it is not in the panel top and bottom, with the high-speed drive which is raised in these 3 times, the data driver block where blinking drive speed of the pixel is not in time with the XGA model becomes and may be only underneath achieving "one side drive". This actualized number of articles reduction, pulled and came to the point of with bringing the improvement and cost reduction of economical electrical efficiency.

With say, with full HD resolution from the fact that the drive pixel becomes many, with this 3 time fast drive doing not be able to actualize one side drive, in this 50V type full HD plasma experimental model it has become the both sides drive which is the data driver in the top and bottom.

Well, it is sale time of this 50V type full HD plasma, but this price, sale time is undecided. However "as for the world cup 2006 we would like to try to be shown with this", that we have done, after all looking at competitive other companies and market trend, it is the impression that it gropes release time.

Looking at the picture quality of the apparatus, it is impression, but privately, you felt that in the prototype of the full HD plasma of the latest 50V type class degree of completion of picture quality is highest.



The linearity of dark space gradation is good. The air which already wants power a little does red, but blue and green are sharp It tried photographing the panel with rise. As for the resolution impression one Danziyou being high even in the full HD plasma of the same 50V type class being obtained favor of direct color filter structure?


The brightness dynamic range being able to actualize the level which almost is not different from PDP-506HD is, by comparison with the full HD liquid crystal of the same size, being able to reflect strength of luminescence of the plasma on contrast efficiency is.


The direct color filter prevents plain air decrease and the radiation blotting. As for this also the pixel of the full HD specifications affinity is good

In addition, being the effect of 3 time drive, or also the linearity of dark space gradation being satisfactory and seeing, you feel at rest. The effect of the pioneer individual direct color filter has appeared even with the full HD panel, description of 1 pixel 1 pixel very sharp.

Concerning color it is entirely good balance, but if desire is said, while blue and green are sharp, red somewhat is an impression which approaches to red, has been defeated to the depth of blue and green. This is we would like to expect adjustment or improvement.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Hitachi, Ltd.
- 55V type full HD plasma sample only


The 55V type full HD panel of FHP is displayed


Replacing the role of the discharge electrode of each scanning line of even number raster and odd number raster alternately, decreasing the number of electrodes by the fact that you take the structure which it discharges it makes numerical aperture, "ALIS system", and the individual plasma television which is called "e-ALIS system" Hitachi, Ltd. which has commercialized. Here did the exhibition of the experimental model of the full HD panel with the timing of CEATEC of this year.

Picture size becomes the 55V type which somewhat becomes larger than Panasonic and the pioneer. 55V type is the size which is adopted even with the Hitachi current product, seems that we decide to follow this size even with full HD.

Declaration was avoided concerning the type of panel, but being the large-sized picture, 55V type and, really looking at pixel form, it is thought that e-ALIS system or it is general progressive system equal from the feeling where the lattice eye of length and breadth has been visible.

We emphasized that "to the last it is sample only", we did not do the concrete technical explanation like the pioneer and Panasonic. With although you say, Hitachi raising the panel, had presented the basic specifications vis-a-vis the other manufacturer does not wish talking the numerical specifications excessively.

Indicatory size: Opposite angle 139cm (55V type), 1,210×680mm
The number of pixels: 1,920×1,080, aspect ratio 16:9
Pixel pitch: 0.63×0.63mm
Peak brightness: 1,000cd/m2
Darkroom contrast: 5,000:1
When you look at this, peak brightness is equal to the 55V type panel of the current 1,366×768 dot, but that being, as for contrast efficiency it is found that considerably existence is exceeded largely. With to say, it means that the downgrade being packed of the dark space has improved.

Actually seeing, it is impression, although the 55V type e-ALIS panel of the same Hitachi 1,366×768 dot compared to the fog and there is a dark impression, but in regard to brightness, you could realize that it is the difference of according to the specifications in regard to the resolution impression.

Price, sale time, being undecided together, when the sale after the 2006 summer with the goal of development is advanced, is. When becoming the final television product, you say that it is the possibility that it becomes one somatotype design which is similar to the current WOOO series.


When it compares with the similar type size current e-ALIS panel, just a little become dizzy there is an impression, but the difference of the resolution impression is preponderant. If it goes at this pace, perhaps the plasma above 50V type from the next year latter half it keeps being displaced in the full HD specifications,


When "you think of that there puts out 65V type under 100 ten thousand Yen, as for the price range which has competitiveness. Perhaps when it does, whether it is it is decided, "with the person in charge spoke.
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post #551 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 08:13 AM
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OMG. I almost went insane with disorientation reading that stuff.

I say we chain our best computer science people to the lab and not let them out until we get a great web translator!
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post #552 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 09:46 AM
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Got it together now.

Threads Merged!

Dave

"Appeasment only makes the Aggressor more Aggressive"
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post #553 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness
OMG. I almost went insane with disorientation reading that stuff.

I say we chain our best computer science people to the lab and not let them out until we get a great web translator!
Me too! I gave up about a third of the way through the article. I think I'd rather hold out until reports from the next CES are posted.:)

-Steve
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post #554 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
Indeed, at another Canon Expo in Paris, (see here ), they took a one-second photo of the three screens to exaggerate black level differences. This is the result:

http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos...IMG0014585.jpg

WRT availability, Toshiba wants to release first sets by late 2005, whereas Canon is only talking of releasing computer monitors by late '06- early '07. Price is supposed to be 'the same as same-sized LCD or plasmas'.
Wow! I mean I'm sure they didn't have the plasma/LCD at their lowest/best blacklevels but that's pretty telling!!! :eek:

Also the mention of computer monitors is intriguing!!! :D

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #555 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 11:58 AM
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people who have seen sed display and brightside display are not that enthused about sed
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...dr_edr/10.html
Quote:
Alternative Technologies
If we have to wait until 2007, is there anything else that might come close in the meantime?

SED Toshiba has been showing a prototype SED (Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display) display recently. SED is sort of like a flat panel CRT or rather an array of tiny CRTs to make a flat panel. It has very high manufacturing cost and there is one plant coming on line to build it. Toshiba claim a 100,000:1 contrast ratio, however, for this emerging class of HDR displays, contrast ratio becomes much less meaningful.

You can achieve 100,000:1 by simply outputting trivial amount of light out 0.003 cd/m² and then max out at 300 cd/m². Our eyes look at the real world with much higher luminance than that, so SED would require a tenfold increase in peak luminance if it is to compete with BrightSide's technology
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post #556 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdega79
people who have seen sed display and brightside display are not that enthused about sed
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...dr_edr/10.html
Well I 've never heard of brightside so I can't really comment much. However everything we've been told about SED is that it's actually quite affordable to produce in comparison to LCD's and plasma's..... so...... Also, this statement from the article you posted regarding Brightside's pricing was not very encouraging:

Quote:
Unfortunately, until production costs can be reduced to affordable levels, this technology will be limited to professional markets like film post production, simulators, game developers, and product design studios.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #557 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 12:32 PM
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Canon expands into TV market

Quote:
Canon has joined forced with Toshiba and plans to launch 40-50 inch flatscreen TVs based on Surface conduction Electron emitter Display (SED) technology as early as next year. Canon President and CEO, Fujio Mitarai, told assembled journalists at the Canon Expo in Paris yesterday: "We have big plans for the digital television business. I am happy to announce that next year we will begin the marketing of SED television products."

Currently, Canon is the world's largest manufacturer of cameras and copiers, with sales over nearly 26 billion euro. Mitarai wants to see that grow to over 40 billion euro - a 60 percent growth - by 2010, and next generation display technology is central to the Japanese company's growth strategy.

The move has raised eyebrows amongst analysts, who rightly point out that Canon has little experience in the field. Question marks also exist over the viability of SED technology: tens of billions of dollars are already invested in plasma and LCD factories in the Far East, dominated by experienced AV companies such as Samsung who will not take competition from Toshiba / Canon lightly.

While SED displays are capable of vastly improved contrast ratios compared with traditional LCDs - Toshiba have already announced a 100,000:1 prototype - the LCD manufacturers could fight back, with interest, by licensing BrightSide Technologies'
LED backlight technology. This can beat SED at the black end of the luminance scale, while also producing highlights some ten times brighter. Existing LCD panels can be used, as the design merely replaces the CCFL backlight with an array of ultra bright, white LEDs.


Canon are also exploring other display technologies, and plan to invest heavily in Organic LEDs (OLED), replacing the small LCD screens on their digital cameras, printers and camcorders as early as 2007. OLED screens are ideal for these applications, as they produce bright, colourful images and do not require a backlight like LCD panels do. Current OLED screens work best in small sizes, such as the small 2-3 inch displays on such devices. TV-sized OLEDs have heat problems and suffer from short lifespans.

Mitarai predicts there will be 100 million digital cameras on the market by 2008, of which a quarter would be made by Canon. "The global market for digital cameras is expected to continue growing smoothly," Mitarai said. "We intend to secure at least 25 percent of this market and maintain our No.1 position," he added.

Many photography enthusiasts, including several bit-tech staff, will only use Canon cameras - a loyalty that has helped keep Canon at the top of the digital camera market. But would you buy a flatscreen TV from them? Discuss.
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post #558 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aud19
Well I 've never heard of brightside so I can't really comment much. However everything we've been told about SED is that it's actually quite affordable to produce in comparison to LCD's and plasma's..... so...... Also, this statement from the article you posted regarding Brightside's pricing was not very encouraging:
Plasma used to be very expensive and so is lcd but with time it evens out. These are 2 clips comparing brightside and lcd from westinghouse
http://video1.bit-tech.net/lotr.zip
http://video1.bit-tech.net/xbox_360.zip
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post #559 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 01:18 PM
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So is the 55" panel being built now?

ss
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post #560 of 2847 Old 10-07-2005, 01:20 PM
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And whats a "brightside"?

ss
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post #561 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdega79
people who have seen sed display and brightside display are not that enthused about sed
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...dr_edr/10.html
There is such a thing as too bright IMO. People get too caught up in specs and numbers. Would you want to actually look at a BrightSide display in your darkened room for 2 hours? It'd be like staring at the sun. SED has improved it's luminance output to 430 cd/m2, which is close to most LCDs hanging out in the 500 range. I think 500 is more than enough.
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post #562 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:12 AM
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I'm wondering if Toshiba & Cannon were figuring into the pricing mix the upcoming 1080p Plasmas, when they announced that their SED Displays would be comparable in price. I say this because the upcoming 1080p Plasmas are expected to have a higher price tag than their lower rez brethren, which may fall more in line w/the expected higher pricing of the SED's.
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post #563 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:19 AM
 
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Makes sense... head to head competition in the format wars. By comparison, people will be able to pick up high-resolution 720p displays for "cheap."
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post #564 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcalibur_255
There is such a thing as too bright IMO. People get too caught up in specs and numbers. Would you want to actually look at a BrightSide display in your darkened room for 2 hours? It'd be like staring at the sun. SED has improved it's luminance output to 430 cd/m2, which is close to most LCDs hanging out in the 500 range. I think 500 is more than enough.
I agree ;) Maybe useful for presentations etc but you really don't need more light output than that for HT

And cajieboy, yes I'm sure they're quite aware of that and yes I would imagine they will be priced competitively (2007'ish) with the 1080p plasmas/LCD's not the ED or even 720p ones ;)

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #565 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdega79
Plasma used to be very expensive and so is lcd but with time it evens out. These are 2 clips comparing brightside and lcd from westinghouse
http://video1.bit-tech.net/lotr.zip
http://video1.bit-tech.net/xbox_360.zip
What was the third display at the bottom of the 360 clip? IMO it looked best of the three.

The Brightside seemed too bright in a lot of places Gandalf's face completely dissapeared in a couple parts where it shouldn't have and the screen was a big bright white blotch on the car racing game in some spots....? :( I'd rather have great black level and mediocre light ouput than retina searing light output with poor blacks.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #566 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by aud19
What was the third display at the bottom of the 360 clip? IMO it looked best of the three.
I was wondering about that, too. I *guess* it's not actually captured by a camera but directly rendered into the video stream. If I'm guessing right, it's not comparable, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aud19
The Brightside seemed too bright in a lot of places Gandalf's face completely dissapeared in a couple parts where it shouldn't have and the screen was a big bright white blotch on the car racing game in some spots....? :( I'd rather have great black level and mediocre light ouput than retina searing light output with poor blacks.
Well, the Brightside is supposed to offer it all. Total blacks and blindingly bright light output at the same time. Obviously for home cinema it's over the top. But still it does offer total black blacks. But SED does, too. So I don't see much advantage of the Brightside in home cinema. In daylight and stores it might be different.

Btw, the disappearing parts of Gandalf's face were surely there on the display, it's just that the camera wasn't able to cope with it.
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post #567 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:56 AM
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That's what I was guessing Madshi but in that case, it's not very good demo material is it? ;)

I agree, though, as of right now I don't really see any major advantages over SED plus it will have the refresh rate problems of LCD....

They're at UBC in Vancouver, which is close to me so I may have to go take a look though and see what's what :D

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #568 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Xcalibur_255
There is such a thing as too bright IMO. People get too caught up in specs and numbers. Would you want to actually look at a BrightSide display in your darkened room for 2 hours? It'd be like staring at the sun. SED has improved it's luminance output to 430 cd/m2, which is close to most LCDs hanging out in the 500 range. I think 500 is more than enough.
I'd have to agree also. If the sun appears in a movie, I'd like to be able to view it on the screen. Some brightness compression is a good thing, too high an intensity would mean eye strain.

What caught my eye in the above posts was this link in the article about brightside:

High Dynamic Range LCD

I've said it before: LCD is not finished yet with its amazing ability to advance the state of the art - it's not going away anytime soon, even with SED introduction.
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post #569 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by navychop
T

Maybe OLED and SED will both fail to reach the mass market, and these DLP and LCD RPTVs may be around far longer than we expect.
I doubt it. I believe this will be the peak year for RP MD sales. I base this opinion on the cost of plasmas falling substantially. Many Many RP dispaly types only bught them over plasmas becasue of the cost difference, That difference is narrowing and when Joe sixpack begins limping into the world of HD, I'm guessing the flat panels will be his first choice when prices are the same as RP displays fro many valid reasons, not the lest beeing the footprint. ownership and visual experience most "CRT like."

He is not going to want to pay $250 for Lamps every year or two on a bulkier TV.
Its all about the price points now. RP displays will be under huge pricing pressures just to stay in the game..........Thats what My guess is.....a guess not a fact.

Average Joe For those few who actually watch the content rather then the TV.

Question Everything....Assume nothing.
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post #570 of 2847 Old 10-10-2005, 03:44 PM
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^I agree that most people would rather have a flat tv than one that is even as slim as 14". However, most people will take the no-burn in issue because it seems that even people with Plasmas still put them on table-tops. Whats the point?!

And I thought most lamps last 3-4 years since they have about 8000 hours on them. I guess you watch from 11-22 hours of tv a day. Impressive

My biggest concern about HD is the lack of. I've notice Kingfrog and a few others mention it in this thread and its very true. I would love to watch a few late night shows in HD or a couple average movies on HBO in HD, but I really couldn't care less about the Discovery Channel in HD. Therefore the only reason to get an HDTV is for watching DVDs.
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