MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 04:27 AM
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I have had the P50 for almost three months. Been diligent in making sure that all SD was watched in stretch mode so I did not burn in the side bars, turned down the contrast and brightness so the unit didn't run so hot etc.

I turned on the white screen last night (I last had it on a month ago) to check for dead pixels and to generally clean the screen and to my horror saw the weather channel logo in the bottom right corner (faintly). Left the white screen on for a half hour, got better, but it is still there.

My wife tends to put the weather channel on during the day for an hour or so, but we are always watching other things, including dvd's, movies, sports which far outweigh the weather channel.

I turned on the screen this morning, and the faint image is still there. Should I run the white screen for a couple of hours, or through the night? Will this help, or will I be stressing the screen?

Any other suggestions.

Thanks, Mike
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post #272 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a similar situation with a Court TV logo on a Pioneer 503 but it eventually disappeared (it was ghosting; not burn-in)

Hopefully yours is just ghosting as well

The main thing is to avoid the weather channel for a while: running a white screen may speed the process but if it is ghosting it should clear itself up even without use of the white screen

For extreme situations, you can feed a white image (generated on a PC) of the logo to reverse the burn-in

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post #273 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 05:36 AM
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Mark, Thanks for the advice. I was really upset last night seeing the logo. It is a very faint ghost of the logo which I can only see on the white sreen, or on the black screen if there is no input.

I ran the white screen this morning for another hour with no real effect.

I told my wife to try not the watch the weather channel for a while on the plasma and got the eye roll.

Mike
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post #274 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 05:51 AM
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Mike,

I once had a similar experience with my P50, played too much Top Spin on my XBOX , that resulted in a visible ghost image of the games gauges.
I was really frightened and thought, ok that's it, I screwed it up. Even after extensive usage of the White Screen feature, the ghost remained. But to my salvation after 2 or 3 weeks it went away, so it just takes time and is most probably not a permanent burn in but a temporarily ghosting.
I think plasma screens in general are more sensitive to image ghosting in their first 200 hours or so, they become somewhat less sensitive after that period. At least on my P50 I've never had the same experience again (and now I don't pay any special attention regarding XBOX playing).

Relax and enjoy,
Markus
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post #275 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:



I told my wife to try not the watch the weather channel for a while on the plasma and got the eye roll.

depending on where the logo is located, it may be possible to use a stretch or wide screen mode to move the logo off the screen

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post #276 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 07:57 AM
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How do you generate a white screen?
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post #277 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 08:03 AM
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On the P50, in the menu section, other functions, white screen. Enable the white screen, and turn it off when you want. This tends to refresh the screen.
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post #278 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 08:27 AM
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Thanks a bunch. I love my P50 but I turn it off when I am not watching it such as when I am listening to Channel 819.
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post #279 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 08:30 AM
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I'm hoping it's just ghosting too.

I have a 43" pioneer. I was out for a three weeks and came back noticing ghosting (at the time I thought it was burn-in) in the screen from my brother using the display. I took a couple of days to finally wear off.

I didn't do anything like do a full screen mask, just watched shows normally and tried to ignore it and kept saying "oh well, what can you do now". But in a couple of days it disappeared. I still have not done a full white mask since if it was a burn-in and there's still a trace of it (on regular viewings), I sure don't see it now.
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post #280 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 08:43 AM
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What do you guys (and dolls) use to clean your plasma screen? I have heard that you should never use Windex as it has ammonia in it. Is there a product out there just for use on a plasma? Where do I get it? Thanks alot.
Also, last week on the upper right part of my screen I noticed about 4 dead pixels in a row horizontally. However, it appeared just when I was watching ABC. Could it have been something in their transmission equipment causing this that made it appear to be dead pixels but it was something else. I have my while screen on and I don't see any dead pixels.
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post #281 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 09:26 AM
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Hi math08
I hate to be such a dweeb but which brand is a P50? Thanks

HDTV is clear get the picture
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post #282 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 09:29 AM
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Fujitsu P50XHA10US.
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post #283 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 09:35 AM
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Actually I have the newer Fujitsu P50XHA30US
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post #284 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 10:00 AM
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While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set.

I hope you're able to get rid of the mark math08! By the sounds it should go away. Maybe running normal moving images on the set would clear things up faster than just the white screen?
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post #285 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 10:00 AM
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I wonder how they would look side by side in a comparison test. I understand that it has 10 times more colors than the P50XHA10US but I am really happy with mine. I might move it upstairs and buy the P55XHA30US model for my home theater/entertainment room.
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post #286 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 10:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BobDobalina
While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set.

Can't decide between the Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY and the Hitachi 50vx915 LCD. I am barely leaning towards the LCD (although not by much) for the very same reason as you. I realize that plasma burn-in is much less of an issue as it has been in the past (either because of technology improvements or just better awareness), but with an 11 year old who wants an XBOX plus watches some SD TV with station logos (Nick, Disney, etc.) I would be worrying about the plasma on a daily basis.

Michael
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post #287 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 10:27 AM
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Hopefully this is just ghosting and not a problem. I am concerned that there is alot of watching of other that weather channel, and the ghost was there. My wife tells me that she did not have the set on more in total more than an hour a day. I know when they go to commercials there is no logo, and I know the my sons and daughters are watching 2-3 hours of other stuff every day.

That's why I was shocked when I turned on the white screen last night and was the logo as a faint ghost.

Hopefully this is not a problem because I am very pleased with the set, the PQ is outstanding.
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post #288 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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regarding the LCD Vs Plasma issue; this is good reading from an article in the latest issue of The Perfect Vision from a review of the Sharp 37 written by Randy Tomlinson:


"Sharp, on its Web site, has a page dedicated to comparing LCD and plasma technologies. Since Sharp only makes LCD sets, you might expect some bias, but most of its information is right on target. Here are some of the points it makes, and some of my own (italicized) comments from personal experience.
Viewing Angles: LCD sets have 170-degree viewing angles while typical plasmas are 160 degrees. My experience is that the picture on LCD sets changes character (loses contrast, in particular) considerably as you move off axis, while the plasma picture does not.
Screen Sizes: Aquos LCD sets range from 13"-37" in size, while plasma displays aren't produced in sizes smaller than 32". As I mentioned before, plasma sizes probably won't shrink but LCD will definitely grow and probably improve as time goes on. In small sizes, they have little competition, and soon they'll threaten the big boys.
Burn-in: LCDs aren't prone to image burn-in, while plasmas can easily be damaged by static images. No question about this advantage. Many plasma owners have already learned the hard way that image burn-in is a very real problem, and one for which there is no repair and no warranty-coverage. Plasma sets often have all the inputs for being a computer monitor or game display, but using them that way is inviting disaster. Even the stock-market ticker is a potential threat.
Brightness: Sharp indicates that its LCD sets measure typically more than four times as bright as typical plasma sets. It doesn't mention, however, the poor black levels of LCD sets, especially when compared to the Panasonic plasmas. And even a set that measures four times as bright doesn't look anywhere near four times as bright with typical movies and TV programs.
Weight: LCD sets are said to be lighter, thinner, and more manageable, but their screens are also smaller. When LCD hits 42", we'll have a level playing field for this comparison. They'll still be lighter than plasmas, but both will be too big and heavy for one person to easily (and safely) wallmount. More important: Sharp builds handles into some of its sets' rear covers for easy carryingothers don't.
Product Life: Sharp claims 60,000 hours for its LCD panels while estimates for plasma panels typically run from 20,000 to 30,000 hours. But the real advantage for LCD is that the light source is a bulb, which can be replaced. Plasmas cannot be rejuvenated by a quick recharge of gas, as some uninformed salespeople have told their customers.
Power Consumption: LCDs consume half the power of plasma displays and comparably-sized CRT sets. Plasma sets do run hot, and some have noisy fans that can't be turned off.
Altitude: LCDs aren't affected by altitude, while plasma sets will often hum and buzz at altitudes above 6500 feet. If you're up high, listen for buzzing at the dealer's showroom or just opt for LCD.
Other differences I've noticed include:
LCDs typically don't track gray as well as plasmas and often have extreme color tint errors as they approach black. Plasmas can often be ISF-calibrated to near perfection, while many LCD sets must settle for calibrations with compromises. Few are calibrated well out of the box.
LCDs have subjective resolution that only the best plasmas can approach. Once again, when screen sizes become identical, the playing field will be more level.
LCDs have bright, vivid colors, but greens usually look even more unnatural than typical plasma greens. The latest Sharp seems to have negated this advantage.
LCDs have always had a problem with slow response time, which results in the smearing of fast-moving objects. The latest models are much improved, but fast pans (in sporting events, for example) can give some people viewer fatigue after a while. The problem is very subtle, but it slowly eats away at you, particularly when you've identified it and know what to look for. One solution: Don't look for it. RT"

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post #289 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by markrubin
regarding the LCD Vs Plasma issue; this is good reading from an article in the latest issue of The Perfect Vision from a review of the Sharp 37 written by Randy Tomlinson...

Mark,

Are the comments you quoted specific to flat panel LCDs or do some of the issues listed also apply to LCD RPTVs?

Michael
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post #290 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Mark,

Are the comments you quoted specific to flat panel LCDs or do some of the issues listed also apply to LCD RPTVs?

Michael

The article referred to flat panels

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post #291 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:43 AM
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"While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set."

Bob, that's fine -- really.

I just want to note that there have been easily >1,000 people who've come through who bought plasmas.

The number who have reported any actual, permanent burn-in is -- I believe -- in the single digits.

Note that I'd recommend a serious gamer get an LCD anyway because serious gamers might use their display 30-40% for gaming and up until the newest plasmas (from Panasonic and perhaps Pioneer), I'd have said that's too high for a plasma. It might not be anymore, but I don't know yet.

As for the matter at hand, I suspect the "weather channel ratio" is actually fairly high. I don't know this, but the goal is not to "far outweigh" the weather channel, or fox news, or cnbc, but to keep any one of them comfortably in the 20%-or-less range.

Now, that said, I also doubt this is any kind of permanent burn in or source of worry. One potential option for the weather channel or any commonly watched static-image channel is to get a macro remote and create a special button for the channel that also lowers the contrast / brightness / overall picture mode for the display. The Pioneer commercial models have a very flat mode that I can't believe could easily be burned in my much of anything, for instance. It is not very good for watching real video, but adequate for watching weather or stock quotes.

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #292 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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One potential option for the weather channel or any commonly watched static-image channel is to get a macro remote and create a special button for the channel that also lowers the contrast / brightness / overall picture mode for the display. The Pioneer commercial models have a very flat mode that I can't believe could easily be burned in my much of anything, for instance. It is not very good for watching real video, but adequate for watching weather or stock quotes.

Excellent idea Mark- Thank you

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post #293 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 11:57 AM
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Yet Mark, didn't you have an LCD with burn-in?

Mike, I'm betting you've got a ghosting issue too. With what sounds like conservative picture adjustments and not hours on end of the Weather Channel, hopefully you'll be fine in a few weeks. You might want to try the screen orbiter in the future to move the picture around a few pixels, but some here feel that doesn't solve the potential problem of burn-in either.
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post #294 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 12:17 PM
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The other thing I did last night was activate the screen oribtor. I have standard shift based upon time.

I had the oribtor activated initially, but there some settings I didn't like so rather than go setting by setting, I reset to factory. I never reactivated the screen orbitor.
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post #295 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 12:22 PM
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What I do is I turn on my plasma and HD Tivo and tune to the weather channel and then I turn off my plasma leaving the HDTivo on. After the 30 minute buffer is full I turn the plasma back on and fast forward to the part of the show that I want to see, the satellite image of the South. Then I watch and listen to what they say about the South and then I fast forward to the 3 Day Forecast and check that out and then I turn to Channel 819 (Classic Rock) and turn off the plasma and surf the internet or visit the AVS Forum.
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post #296 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
"While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set."

Bob, that's fine -- really.

I just want to note that there have been easily >1,000 people who've come through who bought plasmas.

The number who have reported any actual, permanent burn-in is -- I believe -- in the single digits.

I don't mean to start a debate as I know it's been covered but even if this ghosting isn't permanent, it's still bothering to me. If I spend $3,000 + for a display device and spend a few hours playing Links on my Xbox, I don't want to have to be seeing an image of the swing meter on my screen after I stop, even if it does go away after a few days.

Anyhow, so many people here say that burn in is not an issue at all with plasmas any more... and frankly that doesn't seem to be the case, even if it's only temporary burn in, or ghosting.
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post #297 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Ken Ross
Yet Mark, didn't you have an LCD with burn-in?

Mike, I'm betting you've got a ghosting issue too. With what sounds like conservative picture adjustments and not hours on end of the Weather Channel, hopefully you'll be fine in a few weeks. You might want to try the screen orbiter in the future to move the picture around a few pixels, but some here feel that doesn't solve the potential problem of burn-in either.

Hi Ken

yes I had an LCD with burn-in : SHARP REPLACED IT at no charge even though it was out of warranty; THAT is the difference-

name ONE plasma with burn-in that got replaced in/out of warranty

Screen orbiters do not do it afik: screen orbiters just wobble the screen burn

in Mike's case it is most likely ghosting

but this debate has taken a new turn...with the introduction of the 1920x1080 LCD's...

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post #298 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 04:27 PM
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Mike,

Didn't see anyone ask you this but I take it your P50 is a 6UY, correct?
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post #299 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 07:31 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by markrubin

but this debate has taken a new turn...with the introduction of the 1920x1080 LCD's...

If this is not a ringing endorsement of Direct View LCDs vis a vis plasma I don't know what is.

I for one still worry about plasma burn in. Even if I watch mostly HDTV, all commercials are still 4:3. I refuse to jump every time and stretch them. I don't want to find out that after 1 year I have a burnt-in 4:3 area on my screen.

I still may decide to get the 50" 7UY before I get an LCD (or SED), but this burn-in thing really bothers me. I just don't want to worry and spend time on burn-in prevention. Life's too short.
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post #300 of 2990 Old 11-04-2004, 07:46 PM
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The one thing to keep in mind about 1920X1080 displays is that our HD sources are nowhere near that figure. We're lucky to get 1400X1080 at this point and probably for some time to come. Hopefully we'll get the higher resolutions at some point down the road.
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