MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 2990 Old 09-13-2005, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skorpi0wn View Post

I purchased a Panasonic TH-42PD50U a few weeks ago and I absolutely love it. It is my first plasma purchase so I'm a newbie and very worried about screen burn-in. I have two roommates that are very excited to use an XBox on this display, but I told them no due to screen burn-in.

Last night, I hooked up my XBox through component to watch a movie that was on CD-ROM. Now that the XBox is hooked up, it's really tempting to start playing games.

I've searched these forums for a while now looking for someone that has used a video game system with this television and I can't find much. I'm wondering if I should worry so much about it? I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not an expert, and I don't have (yet) hands-on experience with plasmas, but after reading what are the principles of 'breaking-in' plasmas, the golden rule is that for the first 100 hours, have the whole screen showing a picture (no black/gray bars), keeping the contrast and brightness below 0, and not letting any permanent image stay on the screen for more than a few seconds ("I" would say, no more than half a minute, probably. That's what I'm planning to do anyway). Supposedely, the first 100 hours are to be like that. After that, for the next 900 hours, people say to use the plasma in that mode for at least 85% of the time.
I don't know, I guess it would really depend on the way the games are... if there are images that won't change for a while, I'd stay away from playing games at least for the first 100 hours. Some people suggest to just run video in a loop for a few overnights. I guess that's a good option, I may consider doing that. Good luck!
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post #722 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulisme View Post

It looks like you guys are right. I let my TV run for a couple hours on one of the HD channels that has constant motion a very faint translucent logo, and now the VH1 logo is completely gone.

I also set my brightness and contrast (picture) down below 0, but now the image seems awfully dark. A friend of mine at work is letting me borrow an Avia Guide to Home Theater DVD which I'll try tonight to see if calibrating it makes it better.

I actually take this back. I noticed the logo again on my TV last night. I guess I'll just wait it out and see if it goes away.
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post #723 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 04:03 PM
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My company recently had a plasma screen installed in our lobby. I've built a flash application to display company news, customer logos, etc... (full screen)

As of now, I have about 30 customer logos fading in and out over a solid white background. It takes about 2 minutes to get through all the logos. After that, I wipe the screen with a solid color (this takes about 2 seconds) before returning to the logo loop. This runs about 12 hours a day. Should I be concerned about burn-in even though I wipe with a solid color every few minutes?

Thanks in advance
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post #724 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwineman View Post

My company recently had a plasma screen installed in our lobby. I've built a flash application to display company news, customer logos, etc... (full screen)

As of now, I have about 30 customer logos fading in and out over a solid white background. It takes about 2 minutes to get through all the logos. After that, I wipe the screen with a solid color (this takes about 2 seconds) before returning to the logo loop. This runs about 12 hours a day. Should I be concerned about burn-in even though I wipe with a solid color every few minutes?

Thanks in advance

it'll probably help the experts to know how much time does every single logo stay on the screen.

from reading the break-in suggestions, if I was you I'd rearrange the icons you show so that:
1. they don't show for more than a few seconds (say 10-20. or less. The least amount of time. I'll let the experts comment on how long is too much)
2. they don't show always on the same spot of the screen (meaning, if in one iteration the 'brandX' logo is in the upper right of the screen, in the next iteration is in the lower left, or somewhere else but on the upper right).
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post #725 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rod_video View Post

it'll probably help the experts to know how much time does every single logo stay on the screen.

from reading the break-in suggestions, if I was you I'd rearrange the icons you show so that:
1. they don't show for more than a few seconds (say 10-20. or less. The least amount of time. I'll let the experts comment on how long is too much)
2. they don't show always on the same spot of the screen (meaning, if in one iteration the 'brandX' logo is in the upper right of the screen, in the next iteration is in the lower left, or somewhere else but on the upper right).

I agree with #2. The more variation you have the better. Then it becomes more of a screen saver type of loop and you won't have anything to worry about.
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post #726 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 08:36 PM
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I bought a used NEC Plasmasync 4210W. I has major burn pretty much the whole
screen caused by previous commercial use. Is there any way of fixing the
burn-in? if so how would I do this?
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post #727 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 08:45 PM
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Depending on how many hours the screen has been on, you may or may not be able to fix it. If the plasma is relatively young (< 1000 hours), the screen wear will even out over time watching full screen sources and the burn-in may fade. How long it takes to fade depends on how many hours it has been used already. If the burn in is really bad, it may fade a little but never go away completely.

Check the burn-in thread sticky.
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post #728 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 08:50 PM
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post #729 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 08:59 PM
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I belive its about its about 3 years old and it probably has been used over 1000 hrs. I heard you if you get the screen white and let it run that might fix it is that true and if so how do get a white image on screen and how long do I keep it on for.
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post #730 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 09:13 PM
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I bought a used NEC Plasmasync 4210W. I has major burn pretty much the whole
screen caused by previous commercial use. Is there any way of fixing the
burn-in? if so how would I do this?

And yes its does have over 1000 hrs on it
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post #731 of 2990 Old 09-14-2005, 11:00 PM
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Please, go to the proper thread.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #732 of 2990 Old 09-15-2005, 12:14 AM
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Rogo,

Don't you miss your moderator days?
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post #733 of 2990 Old 09-15-2005, 04:05 PM
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Just thought I would update my experience breaking in my Panny TH-42PX50U. I've had the set since 9/3, probably using it about 5-6 hours a day. I've played a little bit of games, watched a couple movies (full screen), and last Sunday gave it a full NFL workout. I was a bit concerned about TV logos, but so far I haven't seen anything, even after watching Fox football broadcasts for about 7 hours last week. I have my contrast and brightness down a tad below 0, and that really seems to make a big difference. Even an hour of Madden didn't cause any image retention. I was especially looking for it on the white EA Sports logo page. I've probably got another week to go before I hit 100 hours.

I have been careful -- I've zoomed and moved the image on stations like CNN, and also haven't played games for more than 30-60 minutes in a sitting. But I haven't really had to alter my viewing beyond that.
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post #734 of 2990 Old 09-16-2005, 10:20 PM
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Why can't you just put it on a station w/out a logo and run it day and night for, well, four days?
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post #735 of 2990 Old 09-16-2005, 11:18 PM
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Hello,

I have had several clients (I'm an installer) who purchased plasmas from others and expereinced burn-in with relatively light use. One very high end Pioneer had it after less than 100 hours.

The question is, with a 1080i signal input of 4:3 content from a cable or satellite box, there is no stretching capability to fill the screen, so gray or black bars are unavoidable, so burn-in is unavoidable, no? Unless you run two cables from the source to the set, one for 1080i and one at a lower resolution (on most it would necessarily mean 480i on the S-video as most boxes won't vary output resolution on different component or DVI outputs simultaneously), and then wade through menus to switch source input and engage stretch each time what is being watched changes aspect ratios. (not an acceptable solution to my mind) And then all the 4:3 channels still look like doo because you have to use S-video. Surely I'm missing something.

Is it that the first hours of usage are really critical to burn-in and because they weren't warned about it by the big dumb box guys they weren't careful? Anyone have an objecteive source to confirm that burn-in is most critical in first viewing hours?

And yes, by the time I showed-up the damage was done and the factory presets of screaming glare still remained.

Thansk much
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post #736 of 2990 Old 09-16-2005, 11:21 PM
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...w/ no sidebars, I meant to say.
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post #737 of 2990 Old 09-16-2005, 11:36 PM
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[quote=D Alchemist]

Is it that the first hours of usage are really critical to burn-in and because they weren't warned about it by the big dumb box guys they weren't careful? Anyone have an objecteive source to confirm that burn-in is most critical in first viewing hours?[quote]

OK, I've answered my own question with a good Google:

From a Panasonic White Paper, when the set is first turned on...

"Make sure the display is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely
fills the screen (there are often three or more settings from which to
choose). The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the
Just mode.
y Turn down the picture control (contrast) to 50% or less.
y Briefly engage the 4:3 mode to confirm the side bars are set to mid-gray
(there is usually an adjustment in the Set Up menu that takes the
sidebars from black to gray) to minimize the chance of burn-in.
y Return the set to a full screen (Just, Zoom, Full) position during the
first hundred hours of use.
y During the first hundred hours of use it is best not to view the same
channel for extended periods. This should prevent channel logos and
other fixed images found on some channels from being retained.
y Avoid any static images (video games, computer images, DVD title
screens, etc.) during the hundred-hour break-in.
After the hundred-hour break-in period, during the next nine-hundred hours:
y Continue to retain the picture setting at 50% or less.
y Limit the use of 4:3 aspect ratio mode (traditional picture size that does
not fill the entire screen) to 15% of viewing time.
y Limit the use of static images (computer, video games, etc.) to less than
10% of viewing time.
After one-thousand viewing hours, panels are much less likely to experience
image burn-in."


The absolute best part is to limit watching any 4:3 material to 15% of the time until 1000 hours. Unbelievable. I don't know how most people use these sets, but most of my clients are way too busy to watch lots of HD primetime live. They watch 4:3 stuff off their DVR. And they don't even reach 1,000 hours for a year plus.

Guess I wasn't missing anything. But it sure makes burn-in a MUCH greater problem than most on this thread make it out to be, IMHO. I will continue to recommend LCDs for most clients.
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post #738 of 2990 Old 09-17-2005, 08:51 AM
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They can watch 4:3 content in Just, Zoom or Full modes which stretch the image to the full screen size. It's not 4:3 content iteself that poses a problem, it is the black bars on the sides.

I would think most people would want to watch their content on the full screen anyway.

-Justin
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post #739 of 2990 Old 09-17-2005, 10:53 AM
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From what I understand the first 100 hours are critical (as per the Panasonic paper above), however after that I would suggest that the latest gen plasmas can tolerate normal viewing habits - as long as the source and aspect ratio is not always the same.

I've only just got my Pana HD TH-42PV500A and I'm in the process of breaking it in by watching mostly widescreen material, and any 4:3 source material zoomed, and making sure no tv logos stay on screen for long periods. 100 hours at 3 hours a day is 1 month, so I figure I can do it for that long.

After the 1 month break-in, I'm going to use the set normally and pretty much forget about burn in.
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post #740 of 2990 Old 09-17-2005, 11:09 AM
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Burn-in? What's that?
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post #741 of 2990 Old 09-17-2005, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PersianImmortal View Post

From what I understand the first 100 hours are critical (as per the Panasonic paper above), however after that I would suggest that the latest gen plasmas can tolerate normal viewing habits - as long as the source and aspect ratio is not always the same.

I've only just got my Pana HD TH-42PV500A and I'm in the process of breaking it in by watching mostly widescreen material, and any 4:3 source material zoomed, and making sure no tv logos stay on screen for long periods. 100 hours at 3 hours a day is 1 month, so I figure I can do it for that long.

After the 1 month break-in, I'm going to use the set normally and pretty much forget about burn in.

I just received my 42" panasonic as well. My 100 hours will be followed per recommendations, but 1000 hours (that's around the clock for more than a month!) may as well be a lifetime for me. After my 100 hours, I will consider the set broken in.

-Justin
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post #742 of 2990 Old 09-17-2005, 01:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyNett View Post

Burn-in? What's that?

you're joking rite?



For PC users,

in addition to lowering the contrast & brightness settings,



- you should make the desktop all black, with no pictures in the background

- hide ALL icons in the desktop

- hide the Taskbar, everything....

- Set all windows message boxes and dialogs to dark grey and set the texts to red or green so your eyeballs can read the texts...

- ALLWAYS TURN OFF THE PLASMA WHEN NOT USING, EVEN FOR 1 MINUTE. every minute, every second "counts"... you want to protect your tv? do it....


- TURN OFF ALL STATS that display during PC gaming such as analog/digital readouts for racing and shooting games. This is probably the most important part of all...... for the record.

- Get a computer monitor to browse internet and do other things. ONLY use Plasma when you play Movies, Videos, 3D games, and other graphics that are in constant motion~ @ Full screen.


if you do all these, not only your tv won't get damaged but also last longer.......


I thought I should mention that in case if there are any PC users anticipating to use Plasma tv to view PC stuff......
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post #743 of 2990 Old 09-18-2005, 06:59 AM
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Does anyone have any knowledge about Hitachi plasmas and their history with burn-in? I've been reading some of the posts in this thread and have been reading how the pannys do a pretty good job with burn-in but is this true for other modern-day plasma sets?

My problem is that I game from time-to-time and was considering purchasing the new 42HDS52 Hitachi plasma. Does anyone have any info with Hitachi's track record with burn-in and video games?
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post #744 of 2990 Old 09-18-2005, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post

Thanks for the help with my ghosting questions. From what I have read this seems to be a common thing. Another couple of questions maybe someone can help me with:

1. Uneven wear. When ever I turn my TV on (Philips 42pf9956/37) The channel # (or AV input) the audio set up (whether it is in surround/normal etc), and the picture format all show up in very bright yellow. This always ghosts, but goes away quickly. My question is, I have been checking the screen (I turn it on with no signal so I can see a lit up black screen) and that area the screen seems to be lighter then the rest of the screen. Is this possible or am I imagining things. I watch almost exclusively full screen. The direct TV menu is in that area as well so it may be contributing. The area does not look like anything and is unnoticeable when there is a signal, but it seems to be a streaky area that is lighter then rest. Think of it as a dirty section on a clean window. Anyone ever heard of this?
2. I have something called dynamic contrast. It adjusts the screen settings continuously while the picture is on. I set my brightness, contrast, and sharpness to less then 50%, but when I put on the dynamic contrast menu I can see everything adjusting, including the sharpness, brightness, and contrast. I am particularly concerned with the sharpness which hovers somewhere around 70-73. Is this messing with my settings or is it adjusting to 70-73% of my settings? The sharpness menu choice only allows me to go between 1-7 (Mine is set to 3) so I don't know what this is actually doing. Any help would be appreciated. Hope I was clear.

As far as I know, the sharpness level will have no effect on the burn in succeptability.

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post #745 of 2990 Old 09-18-2005, 11:25 AM
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How about if I do a 100 hour break in for a Panny TH-42PX500U (it's in the mail) and then play 3-4 hours of gaming say 5 times a week (xbox then xbox 360 both using component), putting in one or two games during the session. How much am i at risk for burn in would you say?

thanks,

cwmcln
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post #746 of 2990 Old 09-18-2005, 01:59 PM
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how about if you just use the set the way youre going to use it from day one, and youll be fine.
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post #747 of 2990 Old 09-18-2005, 04:19 PM
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I like that.
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post #748 of 2990 Old 09-20-2005, 04:55 PM
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I just got a Panasonic 42PX50U, which after a simple calibration, promises to make for enjoyable viewing.

During break in, what about watching a widescreen DVD that's got a wider aspect ratio than 16:9? In that case, there are black bars at the top and bottom. This is not a good thing for the first 100 hours, right? Do I need to do pan and scan with something like that for now?
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post #749 of 2990 Old 09-20-2005, 05:00 PM
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Black bars on top and bottom for 2.35:1 letterboxed DVD's should be treated the same as black bars on the side.

None for the first 100 hours
< 15% for the next 900 hours.
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post #750 of 2990 Old 09-20-2005, 05:54 PM
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Thanks, renlopez.

Gotta get those first 100 hours out of the way.
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