MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 34 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #991 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 07:50 AM
Member
 
JerseyDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: wayne, nj
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
where can you get a test dics from? are some better than others?
JerseyDevil is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #992 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 11:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
dontdothat88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebe1 View Post

Turned off the TV or turned off the 360?!

turned off the 360- would be pretty hard to see any burn in with the tv off.
dontdothat88 is offline  
post #993 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 11:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Wasabi Shiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario CANADA
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdothat88 View Post

turned off the 360- would be pretty hard to see any burn in with the tv off.

But that's what burn-in is. Seeing an image left on the screen when you've turned the TV off.
Wasabi Shiba is offline  
post #994 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 12:44 PM
Senior Member
 
frankie_v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyDevil View Post

where can you get a test dics from? are some better than others?

Check for THX Optimizer on a DVD you may own.Simple enough to get a start on it.

Frankie B (portland,OR)

frankie_v is offline  
post #995 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 12:56 PM
 
optivity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishroom View Post

Panny TH-50px50u
Panny s77s

Just got the new plasma and last night started watching SW III - Revenge of the Sith.
With the picture ratio being greater than 16:9 you have the black bars on the top and the bottom. I really don't like to zoom the pic (lack of PQ) or change the black bars to light grey. Is there any reason to worry about burn-in from a 2.5 hr. movie?

Thanks

Turning down the brightness & contrast is a good idea and Panasonic recommends displaying no black bars during the first 100 hours of use and for no more than 15% of the time during the next 900 hours. If you follow these guidelines you should not incur any image-retention damage with your PDP.

I watched "Batman Returns" last night in it's 2.35:1 OAR on my 50PX50U with my Oppo OPDV971H (D-Nice).
optivity is offline  
post #996 of 2990 Old 12-29-2005, 03:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
dontdothat88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasabi Shiba View Post

But that's what burn-in is. Seeing an image left on the screen when you've turned the TV off.

Not only when it is off, you would see it when it is on too. If you only seen it when its off, then its not exactly an issue is it. Either way, i have no burn, not even a second of image retention after playing hourrrrrrrrrs of a game.
dontdothat88 is offline  
post #997 of 2990 Old 12-30-2005, 03:52 AM
Member
 
azhardbody74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think this is a silly topic for so many people to be stuck on.. If plasmas werent so expensive and Panasonic wasnt bragging they had the best plasma in the world, I'd actually see room for concern. Plasma is going to be the next # 1 monitor for us who dont want to go through the trouble of using projectors. If plasma was a bogus technology you wouldnt have Sony, Pioneer, and Panasonic making them and standing behind them. There are some extremely smart engineers in Japan who get paid really well to optomize this technology. I remember when CRT projection came out and everyone was all worried about burn in, as those monitors were far more succeptable, yet go to a sports bar and look for ESPN logos burnt into their big screens. If I was going to buy Ferrari Id buy it because I know its a well enginineered sports car, and thats the reason I bought my plasma (plus it looks as aesthetic on my wall as a Ferarri would look in my driveway. ) Form and function . The longer I've been using my Sony plasma the less image retention I've seen. If you look back on the thread you'll notice most of the people who actually OWN plasmas arent complaining a bit about burn in, and the ones who are haven't owned theirs long enough or done enough research to understand the principles of new phosphors. Yes they all warn you about burn in in the owners manual, and yes pharmacuetical companies warn you about shortness of breath, fainting, loss of appetite, and nausea. I ran mine all day on the internet today with its 300 or so hours on it and was hoping to see image retention from at least my taskbar, yet nothing. Just buy a plasma and enjoy it. Trust me, theres nothing that compares when it comes to movies, games, anything. For you LCD owners, go back to the LCD thread. LCD cant even compare to the PQ of a plasma. I saved up for a long time to get this monitor, and after reading the Syntax Olevia thread I'm glad I did. I noticed there are a hell of alot of off brand and Korean LCDs then there are plasmas. Theres a reason for that. BTW the whole darkening thing that I mentioned in my earlier post is a from the power saving feature that the monitor utilizes by lowering stagnant high contrast to lower its power usage. I hope someday you skeptics will quit arguing and just go buy one of these amazing machines. I love my 42" HDTV plasma. Best $2500 with a 4 year extended warranty shipped I've ever spent. IMO this forum is alot more effective when people ask questions and get knowledge based on experience, not skeptisism. Down the road if I do experience this so-called burn in, You'll all be the first to know, however I bought this monitor based on hundreds of hours of careful and painstaking research, and I have more faith in plasma than I do in God. Someone close this silly thread already.

overclocked AMD 2600 on XP Home
160 gig RAID 0
Turtle Beach Montego
Sapphire Radeon 9600@256
Sapphire Radeon Theatrix 550
Sony PFM42X1B
Yamaha RXV2500
JBL 7.1 Northridge/Studio series
azhardbody74 is offline  
post #998 of 2990 Old 12-30-2005, 09:46 AM
Member
 
mikroski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
๋Just got Pioneer 436 today. I have no calibration disk now. Please some one kindly advice the setting for DVD and SD SAT TV in order to avoid burn-in. I try to read through this thred but only 13 pages so far.

Thanks,
Pal
mikroski is offline  
post #999 of 2990 Old 12-30-2005, 02:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Barteaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by azhardbody74 View Post

I think this is a silly topic for so many people to be stuck on.. If plasmas werent so expensive and Panasonic wasnt bragging they had the best plasma in the world, I'd actually see room for concern. Plasma is going to be the next # 1 monitor for us who dont want to go through the trouble of using projectors. If plasma was a bogus technology you wouldnt have Sony, Pioneer, and Panasonic making them and standing behind them. There are some extremely smart engineers in Japan who get paid really well to optomize this technology. I remember when CRT projection came out and everyone was all worried about burn in, as those monitors were far more succeptable, yet go to a sports bar and look for ESPN logos burnt into their big screens. If I was going to buy Ferrari Id buy it because I know its a well enginineered sports car, and thats the reason I bought my plasma (plus it looks as aesthetic on my wall as a Ferarri would look in my driveway. ) Form and function . The longer I've been using my Sony plasma the less image retention I've seen. If you look back on the thread you'll notice most of the people who actually OWN plasmas arent complaining a bit about burn in, and the ones who are haven't owned theirs long enough or done enough research to understand the principles of new phosphors. Yes they all warn you about burn in in the owners manual, and yes pharmacuetical companies warn you about shortness of breath, fainting, loss of appetite, and nausea. I ran mine all day on the internet today with its 300 or so hours on it and was hoping to see image retention from at least my taskbar, yet nothing. Just buy a plasma and enjoy it. Trust me, theres nothing that compares when it comes to movies, games, anything. For you LCD owners, go back to the LCD thread. LCD cant even compare to the PQ of a plasma. I saved up for a long time to get this monitor, and after reading the Syntax Olevia thread I'm glad I did. I noticed there are a hell of alot of off brand and Korean LCDs then there are plasmas. Theres a reason for that. BTW the whole darkening thing that I mentioned in my earlier post is a from the power saving feature that the monitor utilizes by lowering stagnant high contrast to lower its power usage. I hope someday you skeptics will quit arguing and just go buy one of these amazing machines. I love my 42" HDTV plasma. Best $2500 with a 4 year extended warranty shipped I've ever spent. IMO this forum is alot more effective when people ask questions and get knowledge based on experience, not skeptisism. Down the road if I do experience this so-called burn in, You'll all be the first to know, however I bought this monitor based on hundreds of hours of careful and painstaking research, and I have more faith in plasma than I do in God. Someone close this silly thread already.

I generally agree here. Just don't leave your plasma on "torch" mode with static image for 1 or 2 days.

David Barteaux is offline  
post #1000 of 2990 Old 12-31-2005, 12:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
So I had posted this in another thread but it was off topic and thus ignored. Basically trying to understand why burn in is not cumulative.

"it's been my experience, however, that any image retention accumulated by watching a movie with bars (or 4:3 with bars, or leaving a dvd menu on for hours) is washed away when you finally do end up putting something different on, and that the image retention is not cumulative. And I have done all of those things (not all on purpose!) I have an NEC and if I watch 2 hours of a 2.35 movie in OAR, I will get image retention, but it goes away once I fill the screen again for a few minutes."

"I've been confused by the burn in issue for a while, since when I first started reading about it, it seemed that it would be cumulative (i.e. a certain amount of letterboxing per week would definitely cause burn in) but in practice, that hasn't been the case. I still haven't found a good explanation for it, maybe someone can help me out. If it really is just phosphor wear, as in each pixel has a certain life span and watching a letterbox movie permanently affects that lifespan, then it would seem that watching anything letterboxed ever would definitely cause burn in eventually, unless you took action to specifically reverse it (inverse screen for instance). But we know that is not the case, so there must be something to be said about filling the screen, that is restoring the black level to even across all pixels. Also, I find it odd that a panel that is supposed to last 20 years, would show any difference in pixel brightness after just 2 hours of a letterboxed movie. I mean I see it if I do that, but I don't believe that it can be attributed to phosphor wear alone. There is something missing from the puzzle, but I don't know what."

Anyone?
sievers is offline  
post #1001 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 04:50 AM
Member
 
LV Tehnoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latvia
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello to you all!

I was looking at Plasma panel with 1024x1024i resolution (ALIS panel), that is interleaced, and from what I found about this technology, these plasma pixels are turned off/on many times in second... Comparing to 768p or 480p units...

I just wonder... Does this make any difference in "burn-in" possibility? Maybe someone, who owns 1024i panel, could post his observations (e.g. exprerienced "burn-in", how much etc.)?

Thx.
LV Tehnoman is offline  
post #1002 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Newbie
 
2-reef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi, I just bought (three weeks ago) a Pioneer PDP-5060 HDTV. I calibrated it using the Avia disk and turned down the contracts and brightness during calibration. I am watching a variety of programming all at full width for the first month anyway. Last night I noticed I can see the Disovery Channel HD logo no matter what channel I'm on. I have the logo burned into my set. This after trying my best to not have this happen. I'm pretty upset and am wondering if any one has any ideas. Most HDTV channle logos are fairly bright, which for me seems like I will not be able to watch any of these stations unless I can streatch to logo off the screen. I have contacted Pioneer to see what gives.
2-reef is offline  
post #1003 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Member
 
bogmancometh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just purchased my first plasma. However, I don't have my HDTV-DVR 6412 yet from comcast. I won't have it until Thurs. In the meantime I thought about just hooking up a coax and running the plasma with SD signal on "Full" for the next 3 to 4 days straight. I would turn down the Contrast and Brightness 50% of course. I have read through the burn-in thread but there are many people saying to use discovery hd but I don't have that option yet. So for my questions...

What channel would work best?

Would this be a good idea for burn in?

If I can sneak in a third question is it worth while buying an HDMI cable for the 6412 to run through the plasma or should I just use component?
bogmancometh is offline  
post #1004 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 11:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-reef View Post

Hi, I just bought (three weeks ago) a Pioneer PDP-5060 HDTV. I calibrated it using the Avia disk and turned down the contracts and brightness during calibration. I am watching a variety of programming all at full width for the first month anyway. Last night I noticed I can see the Disovery Channel HD logo no matter what channel I'm on. I have the logo burned into my set. This after trying my best to not have this happen. I'm pretty upset and am wondering if any one has any ideas. Most HDTV channle logos are fairly bright, which for me seems like I will not be able to watch any of these stations unless I can streatch to logo off the screen. I have contacted Pioneer to see what gives.

that sucks... does your panel have an inverse function? That is the best thing you can do to reverse burn in, imo. Did you leave that channel on a long time at any point? Based on what you said it doesn't sound like the panel should have burned. Since it's so soon you may have luck with Pioneer, but all the companies do state that burn in is not covered in the warranty, as far as I know. Find that inverse and see if it helps, should fix it up in no time.
sievers is offline  
post #1005 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 11:09 AM
Newbie
 
2-reef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I can't find anything that suggests a reverse (inverse) function. I actually used the Digital Video Essentials Calibration DVD, not Avia. The Discovery HD burnt in logo is really only visible with a light background, so I am hopefull that if I don't watch this channel again it may disapear. I really only ran Discovery for 1 hour per night. It is stunning on why this would burn in the logo with really only 20% of the TV's time tuned to this channel. Now I won't go back on Discovery at all! I'll update if Pioneer responds. I also send an email to Discovery....this logo is way too bright IMO.
2-reef is offline  
post #1006 of 2990 Old 01-02-2006, 11:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogmancometh View Post

I just purchased my first plasma. However, I don't have my HDTV-DVR 6412 yet from comcast. I won't have it until Thurs. In the meantime I thought about just hooking up a coax and running the plasma with SD signal on "Full" for the next 3 to 4 days straight. I would turn down the Contrast and Brightness 50% of course. I have read through the burn-in thread but there are many people saying to use discovery hd but I don't have that option yet. So for my questions...

What channel would work best?

Would this be a good idea for burn in?

If I can sneak in a third question is it worth while buying an HDMI cable for the 6412 to run through the plasma or should I just use component?

lots of people recommend mtv for that type of break in, since it has no logo and lots of movement all over the screen. supposedly it helps. Maybe just check to be sure the content is as expected from time to time. Personally I don't think I would do it tho, I would just start watching it and try to keep the screen filled more often than not. The thing about leaving it on, I would just be afraid that the programming wasn't what you expected (who knows what could happen) and then if you didn't check on it, you have a problem because an image was on the screen for 4 days. And it would have happened out of your effort to avoid burn in! So yeah, just check on it often.

Since you can get plenty of hdmi cables under $20 easy, I would say just get one and try it. Some say it helps, some say not, I will tell you have the same box you are getting and using hdmi/component gets me the same quality. But the input is there, may as well use it (who knows, it may look better), and free up another component for something else!
sievers is offline  
post #1007 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 12:24 AM
Member
 
jailonacs99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogmancometh View Post

I just purchased my first plasma. However, I don't have my HDTV-DVR 6412 yet from comcast. I won't have it until Thurs. In the meantime I thought about just hooking up a coax and running the plasma with SD signal on "Full" for the next 3 to 4 days straight. I would turn down the Contrast and Brightness 50% of course. I have read through the burn-in thread but there are many people saying to use discovery hd but I don't have that option yet. So for my questions...

What channel would work best?

Would this be a good idea for burn in?

If I can sneak in a third question is it worth while buying an HDMI cable for the 6412 to run through the plasma or should I just use component?


If you have the regular Comcast channels, you can also leave it on their OnDemand advertising channel (it was 91-8 or 98-1 or something similar on my TV). It's a contiuous loop of an infomercial advertising the various Comcast features. It's pretty varied, no static images, and if you put it on Zoom then you don't even get the letterboxes that show when they advertise HDTV and movie channels (even then, it's only a a few seconds of black bars). I left it on that for several days, and one time I did come out to find it off but it was completely black, not even a Comcast logo still on the screen.
jailonacs99 is offline  
post #1008 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 08:13 AM
Senior Member
 
blakespot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA (USA)
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Not really. But make sure the contrast is not cranked ... so calibrate the TV first with a test disc.

regards

Is the Avia DVD still considered an ideal calibration vehicle?



blakespot

my home theater setup:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
blakespot is offline  
post #1009 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 08:23 AM
Senior Member
 
blakespot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA (USA)
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-reef View Post

Hi, I just bought (three weeks ago) a Pioneer PDP-5060 HDTV. I calibrated it using the Avia disk and turned down the contracts and brightness during calibration. I am watching a variety of programming all at full width for the first month anyway. Last night I noticed I can see the Disovery Channel HD logo no matter what channel I'm on. I have the logo burned into my set. This after trying my best to not have this happen. I'm pretty upset and am wondering if any one has any ideas. Most HDTV channle logos are fairly bright, which for me seems like I will not be able to watch any of these stations unless I can streatch to logo off the screen. I have contacted Pioneer to see what gives.

Read this PDF document:

White Paper: Mythbusting - Just the Facts on Plasma TV Performance (sponsored by Pioneer)

...which may ease your concern. It did mine. It swas written in Aug 2005, so the plasma in question in their tests is likely a 5050-generation. The 5060 supposedly has slightly less burn-in prone phosphors (not that the 5050 was burn-in prone), as each successive generation seems to.

I came to this when I watched 2-3 hours of football in HD and the score bar was "burnt in" to the screen. It took maybe 12-15 hours of regular watching for it to go away, but it was indeed image retention.

In the PDF above they freeze a video game on screen for two days and there is dramatic image retention as one would expect - but with 24 hours of normal, full screen viewing, the retention was 100% gone.

That's what Pioneer says anyway.

I have a 5060 that's been setup near a month and I've been watching with reduced brightness / contrast most of the time (for DVD movies I do go to Pioneer's "movie" mode). It's easy for me to zoom-to-full DVD's as I use a Media PC running Meedio using ZoomPlayer as the player and I just zoom to whatever level is exactly right to get full screen. I watch a lot of Discovery HD and also INHD with everpresent logo. I have seen no retention there.

I've been taking it very easy as far as video gaming w/ my PS2, Dreamcast, GameCube, and N64 though. Maybe 10-15 mins here and there in "GAME" mode.



blakespot

my home theater setup:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
blakespot is offline  
post #1010 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 08:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
renlopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sievers View Post

So I had posted this in another thread but it was off topic and thus ignored. Basically trying to understand why burn in is not cumulative.

"it's been my experience, however, that any image retention accumulated by watching a movie with bars (or 4:3 with bars, or leaving a dvd menu on for hours) is washed away when you finally do end up putting something different on, and that the image retention is not cumulative. And I have done all of those things (not all on purpose!) I have an NEC and if I watch 2 hours of a 2.35 movie in OAR, I will get image retention, but it goes away once I fill the screen again for a few minutes."

"I've been confused by the burn in issue for a while, since when I first started reading about it, it seemed that it would be cumulative (i.e. a certain amount of letterboxing per week would definitely cause burn in) but in practice, that hasn't been the case. I still haven't found a good explanation for it, maybe someone can help me out. If it really is just phosphor wear, as in each pixel has a certain life span and watching a letterbox movie permanently affects that lifespan, then it would seem that watching anything letterboxed ever would definitely cause burn in eventually, unless you took action to specifically reverse it (inverse screen for instance). But we know that is not the case, so there must be something to be said about filling the screen, that is restoring the black level to even across all pixels. Also, I find it odd that a panel that is supposed to last 20 years, would show any difference in pixel brightness after just 2 hours of a letterboxed movie. I mean I see it if I do that, but I don't believe that it can be attributed to phosphor wear alone. There is something missing from the puzzle, but I don't know what."

Anyone?

I've got somewhat of an answer for you. While it is true that pixel wear is cumulative, burn in goes away as a screen ages because pixel wear is not linear. It is exponential and brightness decreases at a constantly slower rate with age. That is why screens are most susceptible to burn-in when they are brand new. You are correct when you say that the only way to truly reverse burn-in is to use a inverse or negative screen, but you don't have to do that in order to eliminate the perception of burn in. If you simply watch full screen, the difference in pixel brightness between the black bars and the middle part of the screen will decrease with time. Now if pixel wear were linear, what you stated would absolutely be the case.

Also, it is the same case with your point about how a panel that lasts 20 years can experience a difference in brightness after 2 hours. The older your plasma is, the less likely 2 hours of black bars will make a noticable difference in pixel brightness. A brand new plasma in torch mode will definitely show a difference after 2 hours. Don't fret, it will go away with age.

Hope this answers your question.
renlopez is offline  
post #1011 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Newbie
 
2-reef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Blakespot, this document is just what I needed to see, excellent! I think now that I have calmed down a bit I belive I do have image retention not burn in. I have not watched Discovery for two days, and after two days of DVD's and movie channels without any logo of any sort, I can really say I am having a hard time to find the discovery logo anymore. I am hopeful by tomorrow it will be gone. At first it was easy to see on any channel, last night I could not see it at all, although I know it was visible on a white background, nothing I watched last night had the white, so I will check again tonight. Many thanks your message is really appreciated!!
2-reef is offline  
post #1012 of 2990 Old 01-03-2006, 09:38 AM
Senior Member
 
blakespot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA (USA)
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-reef View Post

Thanks Blakespot, this document is just what I needed to see, excellent! I think now that I have calmed down a bit I belive I do have image retention not burn in. I have not watched Discovery for two days, and after two days of DVD's and movie channels without any logo of any sort, I can really say I am having a hard time to find the discovery logo anymore. I am hopeful by tomorrow it will be gone. At first it was easy to see on any channel, last night I could not see it at all, although I know it was visible on a white background, nothing I watched last night had the white, so I will check again tonight. Many thanks your message is really appreciated!!

No problem - it made me feel better too, coming from Pioneer themselves, etc.

And remember, the "24 hours" of watching that healed their panels - that's watch time, not day time - so it might take nearly 5 days of "weekday working man watching" to get in 24 hours of actual watching.

It's an amazing panel, I must say. Everyone that's seen it on my wall says it's the best television they've ever witnessed. I think they may be right. :-)



blakespot

my home theater setup:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
blakespot is offline  
post #1013 of 2990 Old 01-06-2006, 08:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by renlopez View Post

I've got somewhat of an answer for you. While it is true that pixel wear is cumulative, burn in goes away as a screen ages because pixel wear is not linear. It is exponential and brightness decreases at a constantly slower rate with age. That is why screens are most susceptible to burn-in when they are brand new. You are correct when you say that the only way to truly reverse burn-in is to use a inverse or negative screen, but you don't have to do that in order to eliminate the perception of burn in. If you simply watch full screen, the difference in pixel brightness between the black bars and the middle part of the screen will decrease with time. Now if pixel wear were linear, what you stated would absolutely be the case.

Also, it is the same case with your point about how a panel that lasts 20 years can experience a difference in brightness after 2 hours. The older your plasma is, the less likely 2 hours of black bars will make a noticable difference in pixel brightness. A brand new plasma in torch mode will definitely show a difference after 2 hours. Don't fret, it will go away with age.

Hope this answers your question.

hmm, not really. See I'm now thinking that I've had this all wrong all along. Here's some pictures of what I am seeing. I increased the brightness and contrast in photoshop, to make it easily visible. Also I took the pics of a black screen then comes up for a second while switching inputs. The first is the image retention I get when I view 4:3 for an extended period. It is brighter in the middle, not darker. This is contrary to what I believed what the case was before. If you go by the belief that this type of image retention is caused by phosphor wear, then the middle should be darker, not brighter. The second one is after filling the screen for a couple minutes, and then going back to black screen. You can see that the color in the middle of the first pic matches the color of the whole screen in the second pic.

So to me, this says that the image retention (in my case anyway) is being caused by the fact that the pixels in the pillarboxes have remained inactive for a period of time, and become darker than they would be otherwise. After filling the screen for a couple minutes, those pixels are brought back up to a level of activity where their black now matches the black on the rest of the screen. Or so it seems.

So am I crazy or what is going on here? I know I've seen several posts in this thread saying that the middle would be darker after viewing 4:3, not lighter. If anyone can shed some light here please do.

ps renlopez thanks for contributing. I'm not worried about this, I have see this type of image retention come and go on my plasma many times. I am just trying to understand. Maybe this is the difference between image retention and burn in? That is, with retention, the middle will be brighter, but with real burn in, it will be darker. That seems somewhat reasonable but I'm really just pulling all of this out of my a$$ and want to hear from others and see what they think.
LL
LL
sievers is offline  
post #1014 of 2990 Old 01-08-2006, 02:03 PM
Senior Member
 
AstroSaberIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What actually causes image retention? What is going on inside each gas chamber (R/G/B) that causes this temporary retention on the screen?

Here's what I've experimented with.... I played a Xbox game with lots of static bright images. When I noticed image retention, I turned the plasma off and let it cool off completely. 3 hours later and the plasma is cold, the images that were on the screen are completely gone.

Now, I do the same thing again, but instead of shutting the plasma off when i notice image retention, I switch to full screen video, and within 1/2 hour the retained images are gone.

I notice more image retention if the plasma has been running for hours and is warm/hot.

Still watching TV......
AstroSaberIII is offline  
post #1015 of 2990 Old 01-12-2006, 06:14 PM
Newbie
 
WAINGR0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've had my 42" Panny since the beginning of December... I have had some issues with image retention particularly since I watch the Fox Soccer Channel quite a bit (good logo but too big and colorful for onscreen!). After the first week and a half of viewing maybe 6-7 hours on the weeknights (bit more on the weekend) I noticed their logo ghosting in the top right corner. I was relieved to see it go away after avoiding that channel for a bit.

I'm a little concerned now though... I wish I had found all this "break in" info and settings info earlier. In fact I consider it a crime that Panasonic knowingly ships their plasmas with the default settings cranked up and doesn't include all this "break in" info from their white paper in the manual that came with the TV!!!

My cause for concern came the other night after work when I noticed some image retention from playing BF2 Modern combat for 6 or 7 hours the night before. I figured it would probably clear up... but I switched to a dark gray almost black screen and then noticed I've still got a shadow of the FSC channel as well as some from my FIFA soccer game (bar along bottom with round EA medallion). Both of them were on no more than 1-1/2 hours a piece prior to playing BF2. This was noticed after the TV had been off at least 5 hours, turned on briefly in the morning for news before work and then off again for another 9 hours. I hope I haven't torched it after only approx. 300 hours of use! My gaming was fairly sparse the first week or two until around/after the holidays and I had been fine tuning the settings (mostly using standard) until I settled around +15 (which is 50% according to some) on the Picture setting. My screen has always been set to JUST and my viewing is varied. Maybe I'm over reacting but I love the TV and the picture quality but this sucks.

I'm hoping it just needed more time to cool down and clear up. Of course now I'll be cranking down the settings and keeping my gaming at a minimum for the next 700 hours. I just hope I haven't damaged it some already.

Again Panasonic could do people a favor by including the break in info in the damn manual and putting the settings at reasonable levels to begin with. Let the damn sales people crank their floor models up and burn them out!
WAINGR0 is offline  
post #1016 of 2990 Old 01-14-2006, 04:48 AM
Newbie
 
Bassesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have the Panny TH-42PX500U. I found instructions on how to access the service menu. My only reason would be to see how many hours I have logged in the last two weeks of ownership so I will know how close I am to hitting 100 hours.

I know that I could estimate the time so far, but will the hours show as soon as I enter service mode, because I don't want to be a jerk and fix what isn't broken. Is it a real pain to find the screen with the log of hours? Thanks for your thoughts.
Bassesq is offline  
post #1017 of 2990 Old 01-14-2006, 01:28 PM
Newbie
 
tacomasailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We have a Hitachi 42HDF52 plasma TV - bought new Sept 15, 2005.

The 4:3 aspect section now has a very distinct pink cast to it. The image behind the pink is perfect. The center of the screen looks like you are looking thru a piece of transparent light plastic. The image brightness is slightly less than the border area but the image quality is the same.

This pink color is apparent even when there is no video signal fed to the tuner, e.g. when the system is searching for a source. The pink appears with all video sources, e.g. component, S-video, DVI, whether they come from Comcast, DVD, or off the air.

The size of the pink area does not change when changing aspect ratios.

The border area (outside the 4:3 center) is the same brightness as the center but has no pink overcast or tinge. The only time you do not see the pink tinge is when watching 4:3 with either gray or black borders. Then the center image looks normal. This may just be due to the lack of something for the eye to compare the center to.

This problem began less than eight weeks after we purchased the TV and is getting progressively worse, i.e. the pink is getting pinker.

Hitachi phone support (mid-December) originally told us this was not burn in and they wanted a service tech to look at it. Now their tech came to the house and said it is burn in. Hitachi says they will not warranty the problem.

We see no retained image, no logos, no crawls at the bottom, no kind of residual image anywhere on the screen. It is just PINK in the center.

We did watch a month or so of 4:3 with black borders until we learned about image retention/burn-in (why didn't Video only explain the potential problem to us?). However, we are constant channel surfers and never watch any channel for more than 10 minutes or the time in between commercials. We have a lot of HD feeds available on Comcast and usually had the Comcast box set for the 4:3 override which automatically put the TV into 4:3 expanded to show a full screen image. SO - we never watched more than 10 minutes in a row of black border 4:3 images but did watch them for several hours a day.

In early December Comcast had a local system problem and had to send a signal to reinitialize all their cable boxes. When they did that the 4:3 override was reset to the default non-override and we did not notice that until early January.

Is this pink center section of the TV phosphor burn-in or image retention?
tacomasailor is offline  
post #1018 of 2990 Old 01-14-2006, 01:39 PM
Member
 
gannongolfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassesq View Post

I have the Panny TH-42PX500U. I found instructions on how to access the service menu. My only reason would be to see how many hours I have logged in the last two weeks of ownership so I will know how close I am to hitting 100 hours.

I know that I could estimate the time so far, but will the hours show as soon as I enter service mode, because I don't want to be a jerk and fix what isn't broken. Is it a real pain to find the screen with the log of hours? Thanks for your thoughts.

Go to the second sticky- Panasonic FAQ. Use Bruzzi's link to his info. Click panasonic FAQ- then look for the hours used #12. That one is easy to use.
gannongolfer is offline  
post #1019 of 2990 Old 01-14-2006, 02:46 PM
Newbie
 
Bassesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Go to the second sticky- Panasonic FAQ. Use Bruzzi's link to his info. Click panasonic FAQ- then look for the hours used #12. That one is easy to use.


Thanks, it worked like a charm. I am up to 70 hours (after Hex conversion).
Bassesq is offline  
post #1020 of 2990 Old 01-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Member
 
barrianne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Harlem, NY
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We just hooked up our TH-42PHD8UK today. I studied the burn-in issues/fixes, and while I haven't calibrated the unit yet, we have turned down brightness and contrast.

However, watching NFL Playoffs I'm worried about the Fox logo and scoreboard. Should I be worried? Is there something else I should do for these first 100 hours?

Also, specifically, the Panny white paper talks about setting the sidebars to gray in the setup, but on this unit the sidebar set up options (under 'Screensaver' is the only place where I could find anything on sidebars) are only OFF, DARK, MID, BRIGHT. In the manual in the 'for preventing after-images' section it says to set the side bar adjust to 'bright', which I did. Is there a gray setting somewhere that I'm missing?

Specific numbers for brightness/contrast settings would be appreciated, and info on any sidebar hints as well, thanks, so I can watch these games without having a total kniption! I'm missing all the plays while my husband gives me audio (audibles? ) because I'm studying the forum burn-in discussion too hard instead of watching my beautiful new plasma.
barrianne is offline  
Closed Thread OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off