OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 11253 Old 10-19-2007, 05:36 PM
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post #272 of 11253 Old 10-20-2007, 03:46 PM
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When will OLED break the 27-inch barrier?
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post #273 of 11253 Old 10-29-2007, 07:24 AM
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A Samsung SDI OLED roadmap shows a 40/42" full HD display slated for production in 2010. That's a bit later than Toshiba's schedule but that fact that they have spent $500 million in building an OLED plant lends their schedule a bit of credibility.

Oops, turns out I cant post links. You can copy and paste the following URL...

techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20071029/141477/


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post #274 of 11253 Old 11-03-2007, 07:23 AM
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Well, looks like OLED will not be my next TV. But maybe the TV after that.

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post #275 of 11253 Old 11-05-2007, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

When will OLED break the 27-inch barrier?

Some say Sony should release one within this decade (last report says that they'll have production model sometime in year 2009).

I just hope that there are no more delays for this 1080p model and that lifespan (esp. for blues and whites) should at least be at 60k hours by then. According to Sony Japan, their XEL-1 OLED TV is rated at 30k hours. So I guess there is progress being made so hopefully that 60k mark would come before year 2010.

Nevertheless, the 27-incher will definitely come from Sony. As for a 30-incher OLED TV, I guess Toshiba would be doing it (as they don't seem that keen on their SED TV project due to the lawsuits and stuff) while 40-inchers and above would most definitely be handled by Samsung SDI.

In anycase, my personal stand is that my primary bets are on OLED and that I have lost faith in SED. Heck, I'd rather put my secondary and teritiary bets on Laser TV and/or FED TV instead. I'm really disappointed in that the SED camp hasn't mentioned anything at all recently. Heck, the last thing that they said was regarding the court/patent battle and the sale of Toshiba's SEDTV assets to Canon but that's it. Heck, the SED camp wasn't even at CEATEC 2007 or at FPD International 2007 or even at CEDIA 2007 either.

So I don't need to explain further in that my bets go to OLED TV (then followed by Laser TV and FED TV). SED TV has lost my vote in the next-gen display battle.

Heck, I now feel that I don't want SED TV to even come in to the market anymore. At the moment, I long for it to die a natural death instead for I feel that with what's going on with it, it rather not exist.

P.S.
Whoa, I didn't Samsung revealed a new roadmap for OLED a few days ago. This is without a doubt good news for OLED TV technology.
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post #276 of 11253 Old 11-16-2007, 09:21 AM
 
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Quote:


SED TV has lost my vote in the next-gen display battle.

I did know a ballot was open
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post #277 of 11253 Old 11-16-2007, 09:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

Well, looks like OLED will not be my next TV. But maybe the TV after that.

That is why I think the display manufacturers need to be get behind SED. Both SED and OLED are vastly superior to what we have today, but with SED we at least have a 55 inch prototype.

I would love to see both SED and OLED. OLED to take over from LCD and SED to take over from Plasma.
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post #278 of 11253 Old 11-16-2007, 09:59 AM
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Canon shifts focus from SED to OLED

http://www.displaydaily.com/index.php



SED ends, Not with a Bang but a Whimper
November 15th, 2007

Yesterday, Daniel den Engelsen (of Southeast University, Nanjing, and ABINFO, Brazil, among other affiliations) delivered a closely reasoned, highly entertaining, and exceedingly well-informed presentation at LatinDisplay 2007 here. His topic? "The Temptation of FEDs." His conclusion? That although several aspects of FEDs are tempting in principle, all who yielded to those temptations over the last 25 years failed to produce a commercially viable display and lost a lot of money - and that pattern is unlikely to change. Daan worked on FEDs at Philips and knows whereof he speaks.

Ken Werner
Senior Analyst and Editor

Before, during, and after Daan’s talk there was lively speculation about the fate of Canon’s SED program. Unknown to most of the people engaged in those discussions, Canon had just made an announcement that probably marks the end of its SED program.

In a November 13th press release issued in Tokyo, Canon announced that its Board of Directors had agreed to acquire a majority interest of Tokki Corporation and make Tokki a consolidated subsidiary of Canon. One of Tokki’s businesses is the development, design, manufacturing and marketing of production equipment for organic LED displays (as well as thin-film solar panels).

The press release quotes Canon’s global corporation plan, launched in 2006, which says that, in addition to "securing the overwhelming number one position worldwide in all current core businesses, Canon is focusing on the launching of display operations as a new business. As one of the initiatives in these efforts, the company is diligently working to develop organic LED elements and process technologies targeting the application of an organic LED display product."
HDTV Expert

Tokki has lost money for the last three years, and is "in financially challenging circumstances," according to Canon. But Canon thinks that adding Tokki to the corporate stable will allow Canon to significantly speed up development of OLED displays, and create synergy with Canon subsidiary Canon ANELVA, which manufactures vacuum and thin-film processing equipment.

Tokki has agreed to Canon’s tender offer, and the two companies signed a capital alliance agreement on the 13th.

In past discussions of displays by Canon, it was SED that was front and center. In Wednesday’s release, SED wasn’t even mentioned. Talk about going out with a whimper. But this whimper is long overdue.

As far as OLEDs are concerned, at least we know it’s possible to make them in quantity, unlike SEDs. Whether Canon can make and sell a competitive product remains to be seen, but we can be sure Canon Chairman and CEO Fujio Mitarai will not be satisfied with making 2-inch cell-phone displays. His dream for SEDs was to include them in Canon-branded TV sets. The display technology may have changed, but I will bet you a martini to a peanut that Mitarai-san’s dream of a Canon TV has not.
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post #279 of 11253 Old 11-17-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I did know a ballot was open

It was figure of speech.

I guess you've taken my post way beyond context (but I won't blame you for that )

You can blame Canon though for its announcement that they may consider reducing funding for their SED program and contribute more money/investment/capital into OLED TV instead.

Read the article posted by 'greenland' to find out why.
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post #280 of 11253 Old 11-19-2007, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post

It was figure of speech.

I guess you've taken my post way beyond context (but I won't blame you for that )

You can blame Canon though for its announcement that they may consider reducing funding for their SED program and contribute more money/investment/capital into OLED TV instead.

Read the article posted by 'greenland' to find out why.

You notice in that article there isn't one quote from Canon saying that they have officially ended plans to manufacturer SED TV's.

That article was obviously written by some SED hater, who probably have stocks in Pioneer.
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post #281 of 11253 Old 11-26-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

You notice in that article there isn't one quote from Canon saying that they have officially ended plans to manufacturer SED TV's.

That article was obviously written by some SED hater, who probably have stocks in Pioneer.

Nah that was another post by Greenland.
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Be careful..I hear he carries a big lamp.

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post #282 of 11253 Old 11-27-2007, 01:37 PM
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OLED display revenues disappoint in Q3 2007

"In what was expected to be a strong quarter with Samsung SDI reaching their full production goal of 1.5 million (M) AMOLED displays per month, the company barely reached the 100K mark down from 350K in Q2'07 as reported in DisplaySearch's latest Quarterly OLED Shipment and Forecast Report. The low production level left the OLED display industry with revenues of only US$78.3M in Q3'07 down 38% Y/Y and 31% Q/Q. Shipments were 15.5M for the quarter, down 32% Y/Y and 22% Q/Q."
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post #283 of 11253 Old 11-27-2007, 08:38 PM
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Sony was at the store I work at and brought its new OLED panel with it. The thing was sweet as all hell. I talked to Sony's marketing rep of North America and he said they hope to have the 27" out withing 5 years but it would retail roughly around $1800. They just have to find a way to make it cheap.
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post #284 of 11253 Old 12-03-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triaxtremec View Post

Sony was at the store I work at and brought its new OLED panel with it. The thing was sweet as all hell. I talked to Sony's marketing rep of North America and he said they hope to have the 27" out withing 5 years but it would retail roughly around $1800. They just have to find a way to make it cheap.

You know what. If they price that 27 incher at 1800-2000 American dollars, then I think that it is a pretty solid deal already. For a TV that uses tech that is relatively new for HDTV use, I think that is already a plus in my book.

Not to mention that by that time, overall lifespan would go way beyond the 60,000 hour lifespan (esp. with blues and whites reaching record lifespans) so this would be cool to see IMHO.
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post #285 of 11253 Old 12-04-2007, 05:20 PM
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In 5 years, who's going to be buying 27" TVs? I'll bet the average TV sold by then will be closer to 40", probably in the 36"-42" range.

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post #286 of 11253 Old 12-05-2007, 06:35 AM
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navychop:
It depends upon available space. My wife's cherished teak wall unit, holding the TV in our den, can only accommodate a 26" or 27" widescreen TV. The WAF thus ruled out anything larger.

--Dean L. Surkin
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post #287 of 11253 Old 12-05-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post

navychop:
It depends upon available space. My wife's cherished teak wall unit, holding the TV in our den, can only accommodate a 26" or 27" widescreen TV. The WAF thus ruled out anything larger.

Well, you could find some other place for wall unit...maybe an office room or a bedroom.

In this day & age, w/the ability to watch great movies at home, whether on HDTV, or DVD, or HD-DVD/BluRay you should consider upgrading to a screen size that would benefit from these new video technologies and provide you a more Home Theater environment.

Back in late December 2002, I upgraded to HDTV from a 27" Sony XBR to a 40" Sony XBR. This upgrade increased my viewing screen size by 119% (www.cavecreations.com), and I can't stress enough how great the impact this TV upgrade provided me. The term "night & day" when comparing against my older 27"XBR does not even seem adequate enough to describe the super effects & enjoyment this upgrade has given me over the past 5 years. My next TV Upgrade will be in the 60+" screen size, which after learning more & more about HT, I feel is the best screen size for my viewing distance. This will increase my present screen size 50% for 4:3, and about 166% for 16:9 movies.

Maybe you could get your wife onboard w/this upgrade by taking her along to demo TV's and letting her read some Home Theater magazine articles, etc. I definitely would not let a piece of furniture designed attractively for the purpose to hold/display stuff to deter me from achieving an HT experience in my home. No offense, but I can guarantee you that you both will benefit so much more and in so many ways from a good Home Theater A/V system than you are presently getting from a teak wall unit.
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post #288 of 11253 Old 12-06-2007, 10:45 AM
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Here is a link to a site that has purchased the new Sony OLED display and have taken it apart to examine the internal components.

There is also a Windows Media video clip on the site showing them taking the display apart. Enjoy.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...071127/143111/




[Breaking Down OLED TV] We Got Sony's OLED TV
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post #289 of 11253 Old 12-06-2007, 12:30 PM
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FWIW, I saw one (11 inch) Sony at SonyStyle yesterday. I'm planning a return trip back with a few BDs to 'ckeck it out'.
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post #290 of 11253 Old 12-06-2007, 04:30 PM
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I'm buying a new TV, a 58" plasma. Will Oleds get this big, or is it already hard enough for them to get to even 40? What about 50? Would we see 50"+ Oleds by the end of this year?
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post #291 of 11253 Old 12-11-2007, 09:44 AM
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Sony says that they are losing money on each 11 inch OLED panel that they sell.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20071211PR200.html


Is there room for OLED technology in the TV market?
Press release, December 11; Emily Chuang, DIGITIMES [Tuesday 11 December 2007]
After examining Sony's 11-inch OLED (organic light emitting diode) TV exhibited at iSuppli's Flat Information Displays (FID) 2007 conference last week, there is no denying how stunning the picture is. But because the OLED TV market is still in its infancy, with the Sony set being the first to be manufactured and sold to consumers, it's unreasonable to expect it to compete effectively with LCD or PDP (plasma display panel) TVs at this time, according to research firm iSuppli.
However, this begs the question: Will OLED TV ever be able to match up with LCD and PDP TVs?
"It will be a challenge for OLED to catch up, given the investments that have been put into the other technologies," said Paul Semenza, vice president of displays at iSuppli, speaking at FID 2007 last week. "But there is no doubt about its performance and there is a lot of potential for the display technology, maybe in mobile applications."
With Sony being the first to throw its hat into the OLED TV ring, due to its introduction of the 11-inch set this month in Japan at a price of US$1,800, shipment volumes are expected to be very small, targeting a small niche of well-heeled, tech-savvy consumers.
And even at such a high price, Sony indicated that it is taking a loss on the sale of each OLED set, according to Vinita Jakhanwal, principal analyst for mobile displays at iSuppli.
A few more brands are likely to enter the OLED TV market in 2009, including Toshiba and Panasonic. The major motivation for these companies' entrance into the market is to make a statement to the industry that they are capable of producing OLED TVs, Jakhanwal added.
OLED problems and benefits
Semenza stressed that despite the obstacles, iSuppli does not discount the prospects and potential of OLED technology. However, there are a number of fundamental technology and market challenges that must be resolved before OLEDs can make a real impact in the market.
One of these challenges is the fact that active-matrix OLED (AMOLED) panel manufacturing is still an inefficient process, Jakhanwal said. As the size of OLED displays becomes larger, the yields and manufacturing losses also get larger.
"As a result, AMOLED products are going to be small-sized displays, for applications such as mobile phones and personal media players (PMPs) for a few more years," Jakhanwal said. "OLED suppliers still are struggling with improving yield rates and low manufacturing efficiencies for small-sized displays."
Furthermore, OLED material lifetimes are still an issue for products that require long lifetimes such as televisions. Add to this the fact that AMOLED suppliers cannot guarantee high volumes because the technology is coming from a single source.
However, OLED TV has a number of great upsides, including: OLED TVs use no backlights, so they offer potential power-savings benefits compared to other technologies. Because they have no backlights and use only a single glass substrate, OLED TVs can be very thin.
The response time for OLED TVs is very fast, so there is no motion blur while watching television. OLED TVs have a much richer color gamut than competing display technologies.
iSuppli forecasts the global OLED TV market will reach 2.8 million units by 2013, managing a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 212.3% from just 3,000 units in 2007. In terms of global revenue, OLED TV will hit US$1.4 billion by 2013, increasing at a CAGR of 206.8% from US$2 million in 2007.
Potential is everything
Because OLEDs already serve as small panels for mobile handsets, PMPs and other small handheld devices, it is safe to assume OLED TVs could be a natural fit for automotive infotainment, mobile television, kitchen televisions or other consumer electronics devices that want to add small-screen sets.
The main challenge for the OLED TV industry is making large-enough panels that could be sold at reasonable prices in order to compete against the other television technologies.
Still, iSuppli believes that OLED TV is promising in the long term. Reducing power consumption, extending lifetimes, achieving larger sizes and attaining reasonable pricing eventually will help OLED TV to be competitive, but in the meantime, it will find a place in applications that require small sets.

Source: iSuppli, compiled by Digitime
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post #292 of 11253 Old 12-12-2007, 12:25 PM
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post #293 of 11253 Old 12-12-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothXR View Post

I'm buying a new TV, a 58" plasma. Will Oleds get this big, or is it already hard enough for them to get to even 40? What about 50? Would we see 50"+ Oleds by the end of this year?

Maybe by the end of 2012. But I wouldn't bet on it.

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post #294 of 11253 Old 12-13-2007, 06:11 PM
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EngadgetHD is reporting that Samsung is going to show a 31" OLED at CES.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/13...led-tv-at-ces/
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post #295 of 11253 Old 12-14-2007, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by pkeegan View Post

EngadgetHD is reporting that Samsung is going to show a 31" OLED at CES.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/13...led-tv-at-ces/

Perhaps; but Engadget appears to be not fully sure of what it is reporting. Here is their headline. Notice their use of a question mark. That reads like they are asking if it really can be believed.
Samsung to show 31-inch OLED TV at CES?
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post #296 of 11253 Old 12-14-2007, 10:16 AM
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Perhaps the key is "A" 31 incher. A demo unit. Wouldn't even need to have a half life of more than a few hundred hours.

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post #297 of 11253 Old 12-14-2007, 04:56 PM
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http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...071213/144198/

Quote:


"The problem is power consumption." Katsuji Fujita, president of Toshiba Matsushita Display Technology Co Ltd, explained the challenges that need to be overcome before the commercialization of OLED panels for TV applications at a Toshiba Corp press get together in Tokyo Dec 12, 2007.

Toshiba had declared that it would release a 30-inch class OLED TV in 2009. However, the company indicated a plan to postpone the schedule. TMD is the company that is developing a panel for this OLED TV.

Explaining why commercialization has been postponed from the initial schedule, TMD's President Fujita commented, "On a 30-inch class basis, an OLED panel's power consumption is two to three times larger than that of an LCD panel under current circumstances. We must lower the power requirement to make it less than an LCD. It will take a little more time."

Fujita further said that, as well as the power reduction, TMD must establish a lower-cost production technology, which is expected to become available for practical application around 2010.

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post #298 of 11253 Old 12-15-2007, 11:53 AM
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Now we can add power consumption to blue longevity and manufacturing costs that need to be resolved before OLED can scale. Like I have said many time we are still 5+ years away from a 40"+ OLED that is even close to the price of existing flat panel technologies.

Meanwhile LCD and Plasma will continue to advance.
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post #299 of 11253 Old 12-16-2007, 09:12 AM
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What about computer displays? What are the chances of Sony, Samsung et al releasing desktop computer monitors that use OLED technology?

They might be expensive but certain section of consumers will buy given larger color gamut, reduced motion blur etc.

Are there some factors that make OLED displays inherently unsuited or inferior to LCD display panels in the market today?
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post #300 of 11253 Old 12-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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I suspect computer monitors will be the first big market for them, especially for graphic designers and retailers that use displays to make sales to consumers.

OLED has the potential to become very cheap- about as cheap as CRTs were in their dying days, maybe cheaper. They have the potential to be made using ink jet technology, be flexible, and to use little power.

However, today they still use quite a bit of power, and their lifespan, especially for blue, needs work. Manufacturing hasn't caught up with theory, and better materials are still under development. Scaling them up is still quite difficult. And they are, and probably always will be, susceptible to water damage. So they'll need to be sealed. But hey, we've sealed CRT tubes in a vacuum for decades.

Joined July 2005 and just now making your first post? Must be real excited about OLED! Great!

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