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post #3661 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 04:35 AM
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Nwe Sony president Kazuo Hirai Profile planning major investments in Crystal LED and OLED TECH-On!
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post #3662 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sstephen View Post

If OLED panels have a 25k hr. life, that works out to just under 7hrs a day of viewing for 10 years. They may get quoted as lower, so you'd have to judge, but I doubt many on this forum keep the same display as the main viewing display for 10 years, and 7 hrs a day is a LOT of couch time.

Plasmas quote 100,000 hours life (half brightness) and yet you can burn them in with static images.

We will have to wait and see.

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post #3663 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Yeah, um, the Sony Pro OLEDs are small production and sold to broadcast studios (and trucks). They cost a lot of money per unit. It shouldn't surprise that they are good.

But again, conflating the notion that because they are really good, all OLEDs must be really good is ... like saying that because the BMW M5 is really fast and handles exceptionally well, all cars should be really fast and handle exceptionally well. After all, the fundamental technology is the same in an M5 and a Chevy Cruze.

No worse than the implicit assumption made by the poster I was replying to that OLEDs have a saturation "problem". They're dialed in that way on purpose.
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post #3664 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

...and that's the difference colour management makes.

Something about mobile OLEDs that makes you think it's not possible to do there as well?
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post #3665 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

You are drawing the conclusion that the superior battery life is due to reduced consumption of the display solely. Every component that was replaced between the two of them probably uses less power, including the faster processor.

It's also true that the newer tablet has a newer version of Android which better manages power.

I'm not actually stating that the new display isn't more power efficient than the old one -- it might be -- but the evidence from bench testing and real-world experience to date is that OLED displays on mobile are not meaningfully more "sippy" than the sippiest LCDs.

Samsung is using Red and Green PHOLED emitter materials now, which greatly increase power efficiency. Maybe this tablet has R and G which accounts for the better battery life.
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post #3666 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post

Something about mobile OLEDs that makes you think it's not possible to do there as well?

Absolutelythese are low power devices that don't have the computing power or battery life spare to implement a CMS for colour managed image viewing.

The only thing I'm aware of that is colour managed is the Spyder Gallery app for iPads, which is just a photo viewer. There's no OS-wide support, or even support in the web browsers.
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post #3667 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I have cautious optimism that 4 years from now, an OLED will be offered that's clearly superior to anything on the market and spending the extra on the Elite will feel wasted.

Hijacked this quote from another thread.

Rogo you must have heard something since 1) you weren't even THAT optimistic after seeing them in CES 2)you've been saying the difference between Elite and OLED would not be that vastly different

OLED future looks brighter than ever in past 2 years. Hope the execution delivers.
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post #3668 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Hijacked this quote from another thread.

Rogo you must have heard something since 1) you weren't even THAT optimistic after seeing them in CES 2)you've been saying the difference between Elite and OLED would not be that vastly different

OLED future looks brighter than ever in past 2 years. Hope the execution delivers.

Four years is kind of an eternity. I do believe the gap is small, Spec, but I also believe that as OLED matures, there are reasons why I think that it might not have the perennial problems we keep seeing with LCD (uniformity issues, off-axis issues, and, honestly, quality-control issues).

Look, I have an obsolete plasma now. It's been with me a good two years longer than I forecast it would when we bought it. If I buy an Elite now, it has to last 6-7 years -- it's too expensive to have a planned obsolescence of merely 4 years. Something that is 30-40% cheaper, I can at least think about replacing in 4 years... and maybe it again stays in the Rogo house for 6 years.

This isn't really important to most of you; but it does give color on (a) how I think about upgrades in that I want them to last and be reasonably priced because honestly they are not permanent items (on home improvements, I don't worry about saving $500-5000 because the changes are there forever) and (b) what I see as the promising future for OLED, a technology I do believe will eclipse LCD, however slightly. And while there seems to be some game of "gotcha" where I get caught being more optimistic or less optimistic, the reality is I already have posted the following sentiment:

OLED has the real potential to bring "Elite-level quality" to mid-range prices if/when OLED gets mainstream pricing. It's going to be hard to make an OLED that doesn't have super high contrast, brightness and viewing angles. And once they are reasonably good at color, it's going to be hard to build one that can't at least be calibrated to do good color. That scenario has absolutely no chance of materializing in the next 2-3 years, but it does have a chance of materializing in the next 4-8 years.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3669 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

0.00061fL (0.002090018cd/m², thanks America) seems optimistic, unless you are altering the panel driver settings, which means you're likely going to run into misfiring in the future. This puts the panel at roughly 48,000:1 when calibrated to reference levels. (100cd/m² white, which the Kuros cannot maintain at medium-to-high APL) Last I checked it was closer to 33,000:1. (around 0.003cd/m² black)


That kind of black level is rather easy to detect when watching films in a dark room. Even CRT had a slight glow in a dark room persisting on the phosphors for a few seconds, though it was still darker than this by some margin. My full-array LED backlit LCD turns the panel off when it fades to black. The Kuro's reddish glow did not satisfy, nor did all the other image quality compromises. (dither, banding, discolouration, flicker, motion blur)

My calibrated Kuro's black level is substantially below the light level in the night sky I see out of my living room window. (Before calibration, it was about the same). Granted, I live in the 'burbs so there is some glow from streetlights a few miles distant, but it helps put things in perspective. Night scenes on the panel can actually look blacker than real-life night scenes outside my window!

As for "reddish glow," I'm not seeing it in the blacks--they seem pretty neutral, although they are *so* dark that my eyes have very little ability to distinguish color at that luminance level. (Rods, cones, and all that...) Maybe I lucked out.

I watch the panel from about 11' (3.35 m...satisfied now?) and don't see the dithering at that distance. If I move closer enough to the panel to see dithering, I also notice loss of resolution due to the limitations of 1080p.

About the only complaint I have with the picture is that I have seen green phosphor trails occasionally, but only from fast-moving white credits scrolling vertically on a pitch-black background. I haven't checked to see if calibration helped that situation. I haven't seen this since the calibration, but I haven't specifically sought out material to demonstrate it.
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post #3670 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 09:12 PM
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@rogo no gotcha there. Am trying to keep track of your view and if you've heard anything new. Its always comforting to have a fellow skeptic agreeing rather than a forever-optimist agreeing
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post #3671 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 09:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Robert2413 View Post

My calibrated Kuro's black level is substantially below the light level in the night sky I see out of my living room window. (Before calibration, it was about the same). Granted, I live in the 'burbs so there is some glow from streetlights a few miles distant, but it helps put things in perspective. Night scenes on the panel can actually look blacker than real-life night scenes outside my window!

As for "reddish glow," I'm not seeing it in the blacks--they seem pretty neutral, although they are *so* dark that my eyes have very little ability to distinguish color at that luminance level. (Rods, cones, and all that...) Maybe I lucked out.

I watch the panel from about 11' (3.35 m...satisfied now?) and don't see the dithering at that distance. If I move closer enough to the panel to see dithering, I also notice loss of resolution due to the limitations of 1080p.

About the only complaint I have with the picture is that I have seen green phosphor trails occasionally, but only from fast-moving white credits scrolling vertically on a pitch-black background. I haven't checked to see if calibration helped that situation. I haven't seen this since the calibration, but I haven't specifically sought out material to demonstrate it.

Chrono is hypercritical of the Kuro and tends to blow its weaknesses out of proportion, IMO. I want a better black level than the 111FD can provide, but not with the compromise in PQ that LED enthusiasts readily accept. The fact that a 4-year-old panel is still being used as a benchmark today tells me all I need to know...and represents my best display purchase yet. Frankly, I see no compelling reason to upgrade it with current tech (so as to compromise the viewing experience in other areas that would perturb me more than the hubbub about the Kuro's weaknesses) and am eagerly awaiting OLED's (hopefully rapid) development.
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post #3672 of 10948 Old 02-10-2012, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

@rogo no gotcha there. Am trying to keep track of your view and if you've heard anything new. Its always comforting to have a fellow skeptic agreeing rather than a forever-optimist agreeing

Spec, I believe that Samsung and LG would like to never invest in LCD again. I believe they will continue to increase their OLED investment in the hope of replacing 100% of their LCD production with OLED over the next decade or so.

There are reasons that goal might not be achieved, of course, but I am convinced that is there intent. I was not convinced of that a year ago, but I am convinced of it now.

So it's not so much that I've heard anything new. It's that the balance of what I learned / saw at CES plus the investments plus Samsung's willingness to admit that LG might have a better technological roadmap plus that LG roadmap's much greater simplicity etc. etc.

So, honestly, while the future is not yet written, I believe this is the future they desire and that's not insignificant.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3673 of 10948 Old 02-11-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Spec, I believe that Samsung and LG would like to never invest in LCD again. I believe they will continue to increase their OLED investment in the hope of replacing 100% of their LCD production with OLED over the next decade or so.

There are reasons that goal might not be achieved, of course, but I am convinced that is there intent. I was not convinced of that a year ago, but I am convinced of it now.

This is actually non consensus but it looks pretty much what's happening past 18 months. If there's anymore LCD fab investment it would be in China.

It would be hard to find many that agree with us but I always look at actions rather than words. And their action is telling us LCD peak capex is over.
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post #3674 of 10948 Old 02-11-2012, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

This is actually non consensus but it looks pretty much what's happening past 18 months. If there's anymore LCD fab investment it would be in China.

It would be hard to find many that agree with us but I always look at actions rather than words. And their action is telling us LCD peak capex is over.

Here's another truth: The growth of the LCD / flat panel TV market has practically stalled. It's forecast for sub 10% for 2012 from a much-much-lower-than-expected 2011 number. The 8G fabs are not especially old and probably none of them are even running at capacity.

Throughout the growth phase of LCD (and even plasma) in the earlier part of the 2000s, everyone planned their fabs on the Field of Dreams model ("if you build it...") and the reality is they came, but never in the numbers to justify the amount of capacity that was built. Between upgrades and retrofits, you could easily satisfy the demand for all the world's LCD TVs and computer screens with the world's existing fabs.

We already know a huge chunk of mobile phone won't be LCD for much longer (and perhaps eventually few will; we'll see within 36 months how that plays out I'd guess). Global computer sales also appear to be in a permanent tapering off (and their monitors tend to be replaced even less often on the desktop at least). Tablets are growing like crazy, yes, but no one is constructing a new fab to support that market -- which is amazingly telling.

I posited in a post some weeks ago -- that a lot of OLED fans didn't like -- that under the most aggressive forecasts OLED could reach about 1/3 of the TV market by the end of the decade. Let's just pretend that against all rational odds, the TV market somehow expands from ~200 million now to ~300 million by decades end (it's actually hard to believe this will happen and I believe the TV market -- like the major-manufacturer / "first world" auto market -- is eventually going to stop growing entirely and fluctuate with economic growth, but let's go with it). The world's existing LCD capacity would meet all that demand.

If any Chinese fab were to be built by any new entrant or in a JV with an existing player and was 10G, it could literally produce more than 10% of the world's required output for 2020. Against that backdrop, and with Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi and Sharp all suffering under Korean competition, a strong yen, a terrible TV market, their own bad decision making, whatever, why would anyone invest in an LCD fab? They are all sitting with "dry powder" and all of them are looking to find a TV product that is profitable; not the one they are currently making -- which is typically LCD.

For various signaling reasons, I suppose the game of global flat-panel chicken starts with no one coming out and saying it, but really, I think they know what we believe: If OLED production doesn't hit snags and starts to ramp as LG and Samsung hope it does, the era of LCD fabs is over. The huge caveat is that if OLED production does begin to ramp and it becomes clear that it won't actually get cheaper than LCD, we will see LCD fab investment restart before mid-decade as Samsung and LG build 10G and finish off Japan for good.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3675 of 10948 Old 02-11-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

So it's not so much that I've heard anything new. It's that the balance of what I learned / saw at CES plus the investments plus Samsung's willingness to admit that LG might have a better technological roadmap plus that LG roadmap's much greater simplicity etc. etc.

The weird part is that the WOLED approach has been around for years and years. I had always assumed that there were drawbacks in terms of picture quality since there was no consensus around using the WOLED architecture (it is obviously easier to manufacture). Some of the reports about Kodak's samples at SID and your comments about the LG at CES from a few years ago seemed to back that up.

I dont know if we are going to get some sort of surprise when LG launches their television but it certainly seems that WOLED offers near equivalent quality to RGB. That is a big change and should help some of the other display companies more quickly launch an OLED television over the medium term.
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post #3676 of 10948 Old 02-11-2012, 12:26 PM
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Slacker, I think it probably is "worse", but I think we are very likely to end up splitting hairs -- especially until Samsung produces something amazing, which hasn't even happened yet.

Having seen the prototypes and explained the reality (which for some reason bothers some people) that OLEDs have limited room to be superior to the very best LCDs and plasmas, I'd describe it -- now speculatively -- thus:

Best TV on market: 1.0 quality, improving to, say 1.2 over time
LG OLED: 1.1.5-1.2 quality, improving over time perhaps to a ceiling of 1.4
Samsung OLED: 1.15-1.2 quality, improving over time perhaps to a ceiling of 1.5

Obviously, that's speculative, but I'm suggesting RGB OLED has the most overhead. An interesting question, however is this: The techniques that will allow for affordable RGB-making (these spray-on methods being worked on, e.g.) don't yet exist in any sort of production-ready way. Even if they materialize, the possibility exists that RGBW may have already taken off and become so cheap that they can never compete.

What there isn't room for is an OLED manufacturing technology that is running smaller numbers, costs more and maybe delivers very, very slightly better picture quality. The math won't add up. This isn't like making a niche LCD where you add better parts to a mass-produced panel. This would be entire production dedicated to something that is costing more and selling less. That would -- I believe -- be why Samsung is reconsidering what to do from here. It's a pretty significant decision.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3677 of 10948 Old 02-12-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


So it's not so much that I've heard anything new. It's that the balance of what I learned / saw at CES plus the investments plus Samsung's willingness to admit that LG might have a better technological roadmap plus that LG roadmap's much greater simplicity etc. etc.

So, honestly, while the future is not yet written, I believe this is the future they desire and that's not insignificant.

I agree I doubt they want any more investment in LCD, also I saw some news online that Samsung is considering Woled in the future and are conducting tests this seems to reinforce your idea that LGs road map is better.
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post #3678 of 10948 Old 02-12-2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Here's another truth: The growth of the LCD / flat panel TV market has practically stalled. It's forecast for sub 10% for 2012 from a much-much-lower-than-expected 2011 number. The 8G fabs are not especially old and probably none of them are even running at capacity.

Throughout the growth phase of LCD (and even plasma) in the earlier part of the 2000s, everyone planned their fabs on the Field of Dreams model ("if you build it...") and the reality is they came, but never in the numbers to justify the amount of capacity that was built. Between upgrades and retrofits, you could easily satisfy the demand for all the world's LCD TVs and computer screens with the world's existing fabs.

We already know a huge chunk of mobile phone won't be LCD for much longer (and perhaps eventually few will; we'll see within 36 months how that plays out I'd guess). Global computer sales also appear to be in a permanent tapering off (and their monitors tend to be replaced even less often on the desktop at least). Tablets are growing like crazy, yes, but no one is constructing a new fab to support that market -- which is amazingly telling.

I posited in a post some weeks ago -- that a lot of OLED fans didn't like -- that under the most aggressive forecasts OLED could reach about 1/3 of the TV market by the end of the decade. Let's just pretend that against all rational odds, the TV market somehow expands from ~200 million now to ~300 million by decades end (it's actually hard to believe this will happen and I believe the TV market -- like the major-manufacturer / "first world" auto market -- is eventually going to stop growing entirely and fluctuate with economic growth, but let's go with it). The world's existing LCD capacity would meet all that demand.

If any Chinese fab were to be built by any new entrant or in a JV with an existing player and was 10G, it could literally produce more than 10% of the world's required output for 2020. Against that backdrop, and with Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi and Sharp all suffering under Korean competition, a strong yen, a terrible TV market, their own bad decision making, whatever, why would anyone invest in an LCD fab? They are all sitting with "dry powder" and all of them are looking to find a TV product that is profitable; not the one they are currently making -- which is typically LCD.

For various signaling reasons, I suppose the game of global flat-panel chicken starts with no one coming out and saying it, but really, I think they know what we believe: If OLED production doesn't hit snags and starts to ramp as LG and Samsung hope it does, the era of LCD fabs is over. The huge caveat is that if OLED production does begin to ramp and it becomes clear that it won't actually get cheaper than LCD, we will see LCD fab investment restart before mid-decade as Samsung and LG build 10G and finish off Japan for good.

It's actually not difficult to project MATHEMATICALLY. 5 years ago with the infancy of 8G fab, there was already calculation that the world could support 4 10G and probably 6 (8?) 8G, assuming global average size comes to 42", which is happening. Problem is estimating demand fluctuations.

By my humble experience, a lot of predictions by people in the know usually come to pass... the problem is time frame. People tend to be too optimistic on timeframes because it will sound better ie newsworthy and second it looks better on ROI basis. Think 3G in 1999. From hype with UK 3G licenses auctioned for GBP22b to distress in 2005 (before iPhone) that it's a hype, to reality now.

So I think eventually the capacity will be fully utilised, especially with some capacity changed to OLED and some changed to huge size TVs. And it makes a lot of sense builing LCD fab in China, it being the largest backend process of LCD TVs, and soon the largest TV consumer in the world. Problem is of course politics and technology transfer, which is obvious. 10G in China makes sense as like I said, there are good demand there for the "loudest" electronics Chinese companies are in fact trying to start OLED fabs.

For a technology that people assume it's hogwash 18 months ago, to "niche" just not long ago, to 1/3 of market is good enough for me, in terms of how OLED will grow

PS ("if you build it...")... that's why I'm never a believer of supply side economics I actually think it makes more sense focusing on incentives structure that fosters demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Best TV on market: 1.0 quality, improving to, say 1.2 over time
LG OLED: 1.1.5-1.2 quality, improving over time perhaps to a ceiling of 1.4
Samsung OLED: 1.15-1.2 quality, improving over time perhaps to a ceiling of 1.5

The difference between us is that I have always maintained that the 20% (or so) difference between OLED and LCD is perceivable to J6P, and hence premium would be justified. How much is subjective.
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post #3679 of 10948 Old 02-12-2012, 10:49 PM
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"The difference between us is that I have always maintained that the 20% (or so) difference between OLED and LCD is perceivable to J6P, and hence premium would be justified. How much is subjective."

I do a lot of shopping for fun. It is my opinion that J6P doesn't see what I'd call a 50% difference in picture quality very often. People have to either talk themselves into high-end models or be talked into them... and usually that's on features, not picture quality.

The Elite, for example, is easily 20% better than almost anything around it. Most people just shrug and acknowledge it looks good. OLED is not going to sell on real picture quality, but it will sell somewhat on people being told it's better.

Incidentally, I don't know if it will reach 1/3 of the market by 2020 obviously. I was merely extrapolating from a 2015 forecast I believe is realistic (+/- a year). I was slammed by people here who insist that somehow OLED will have more than half the market in that timeframe, which still seems something just shy of impossible.

But if things like what Tracy read are true and Samsung eventually adopts an RGBW approach, a lot of the production roadblocks will fade. I suspect that most people have no real concept of just how much easier that production is going to be (regular folks). It's a major, major shift.

But it will ever-so-slightly mitigate the small picture-quality advantage. The market challenge is still out there: Convince early adopters to pay a lot for something that is only somewhat better and will become much much cheaper soon after they buy. Yes, that's achieved in other businesses but rarely is the new product such a direct substitute for the existing one. I suppose we need just enough people who want big viewing angles, and local-dimming-type contrast ratios who will seek out the "newer, better" to get us there. But I'm confident that marketing hype will convince at least some of the needed people.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3680 of 10948 Old 02-12-2012, 11:28 PM
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Key is it is perceivable by J6P, not AVS forumer If it's not perceivable then it's very hard to market for eg better plasma black in bright showroom. As good as none.

Not surprising Sammy looking at RGBW. We've been talking about it since LG debut at CES which will affect Sammy roadmap.

But ultimately I think RGBW is an intermediate solution just as edge lit is to full backlit LED.
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post #3681 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 07:07 AM
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CNET UK states that Samsung has told them that the UK will get the 55" OLED this spring.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/televisions/...ring-50006941/

This would obviously be a limited launch ahead of the London Olympics, but it would still be great to get some feedback on performance in a few months.
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post #3682 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

But ultimately I think RGBW is an intermediate solution just as edge lit is to full backlit LED.

See that's an interesting comment. Full back-lit LED is all but dead. The marketplace has voted with its wallet and edge-lit LCD has satisfied the masses while maybe getting marginally better over time.

I'm not disagreeing with you that we might see full RGB OLED, but if Samsung and LG ramp RGBW significantly, we also might never see it. The fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't necessarily me its ever seen in the market.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3683 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 02:04 PM
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lcd is a very mature technology yet it still has some significant fundamental flaws that still persist. off angle viewing, uniformity issues, blooming, finally in this last year we've reached the holy grail of lcds with the local dimming arrays and they still have issues even though they have entered kuro territory.

i acknowledge the the sharp elite may have better black levels than my kuro, but it still has off angle issues, color inaccuracy issues, and that weird pulsing issue. none of those problems exist with my kuro.

i'm not here to reap love on kuros, only to point out that i wouldn't spend 4-6k for an elite while those issues still exist.

rogo said something i believe to be true. lg and sammy want out of lcd as there's so little profit in it. oled will be the next big thing and if they can commercially produce it and are ahead of the field, they will price it with profit margins far in excess of what they can attain with their lcds.

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post #3684 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 02:51 PM
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post #3685 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov...nosys-20111107

Does this replace OLED in 2013?

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

lcd is a very mature technology yet it still has some significant fundamental flaws that still persist. off angle viewing, uniformity issues, blooming, finally in this last year we've reached the holy grail of lcds with the local dimming arrays and they still have issues even though they have entered kuro territory.

This is going to sound confusing to some, but uniformity issues, blooming, and off-axis are not really picture-quality flaws at all. They are technology limitations (off axis on non-IPS panels) or implementation flaws (non-uniform back/edge lighting and blooming). They do need to be improved for the small number of us who care, but other than off-axis issues -- which are noticed by people who can't watch square on -- they tend to be widely ignored by the mass of consumers.
Quote:


i acknowledge the the sharp elite may have better black levels than my kuro, but it still has off angle issues, color inaccuracy issues, and that weird pulsing issue. none of those problems exist with my kuro.

A testament to Pioneer's quality control / QA to be sure.
Quote:


rogo said something i believe to be true. lg and sammy want out of lcd as there's so little profit in it. oled will be the next big thing and if they can commercially produce it and are ahead of the field, they will price it with profit margins far in excess of what they can attain with their lcds.

Yes, that's the idea. And since LCDs are so profit-less for them, those numbers ultimately might end tolerable for a lot of us.

If the Samsung retail-price maintenance strategy for 2012 is to be believed, it is my opinion that it is designed to ensure a framework under which they use marketing hardcore to convince people their slightly more expensive stuff is much better. They are going for an Apple-esque strategy and one that tries to preserve their retail partners. We'll see how it plays out.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3686 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov...nosys-20111107

Does this replace OLED in 2013?

Old news.

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post #3687 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 05:12 PM
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Jason Hartlove was a guest on Scotts show today.
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post #3688 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

Old news.

Yep, and way to much money in Oled now its coming to market.

Plus large printable Oled displays are really in the interest of any one making them as they are much cheaper to produce but sell at a premium.
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post #3689 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov...nosys-20111107

Does this replace OLED in 2013?

Doesn't even look like new display tech. Looks more like a substitute for color filter. IMHO not impossible as an improvement for existing tech but it's a chicken and egg problem since REC709 gamut is limited anyway. You need better gamut spec for this to be useful.
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post #3690 of 10948 Old 02-13-2012, 10:15 PM
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If OLED panels have a 25k hr. life, that works out to just under 7hrs a day of viewing for 10 years. They may get quoted as lower, so you'd have to judge, but I doubt many on this forum keep the same display as the main viewing display for 10 years, and 7 hrs a day is a LOT of couch time.

Some go as high as 35,000-50,000 hours we don't have the first gen to say yet but Oled that lasts 10plus years is way more than most people keep their sets around and long enough for me.
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