OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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OLED Technology and Flat Panels General > OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread
cajieboy's Avatar cajieboy 10:19 AM 03-17-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post


Just lemme know when Sony finally gets into more comfortable price ranges and bigger screen sizes, and Full HD.

Okay, we'll contact you sometime in 2015.

pchemist's Avatar pchemist 02:58 PM 03-17-2008
From smarthouse.com: The high energy consumption of OLED TV's (2-3x that for LCD of same size) may prevent them from being sold in many markets, b/c of upcoming government requirements for energy efficiency of consumer electronic devices.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And...ED_TV/Q9C5R6T2
Isochroma's Avatar Isochroma 12:50 PM 03-18-2008
Osram claims new levels of efficiency and lifetime for OLEDs
18 March 2008



Orasm OLED


Osram claims it has achieved record values of efficiency and lifetime while maintaining the brightness of warm white organic light emitting diodes (OLEDs). For the first time, laboratory researchers have demonstrated it is possible to improve two crucial OLED characteristics simultaneously: efficiency and lifetime, according to the company. Up to now, higher efficiency meant shorter life, and vice-versa.

Karsten Heuser, director of OLED Lighting Technology at Osram Opto Semiconductors, said, "Our development team has reached a real milestone for warm white OLEDs with efficiency of 46lm/W and a 5,000-hour lifetime, at a brightness of 1,000 cd/m². With these significant increases, flat OLED light sources are approaching the values of conventional lighting solutions and are therefore becoming attractive for a wide variety of applications."

The color rendering index (CRI) of the almost 100cm² prototype is 80. By March 2009, Osram researchers expect that a demonstrator for an energy-saving flat OLED light module comprising several tiles will be able to deliver an overall luminous flux of 500 lm from a power consumption of less than 10W.
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob 09:47 AM 03-20-2008
Now that I see it, Sony does have a 27" 1080p OLED, but who knows when that's expected to come to market? I mean, that 11" was a joke, imho, 27" is more like it.
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 05:58 PM 03-24-2008
Sony does have a 27" 1080p OLED,but maybe only have ONE,the high energy consumption may prevent it from market(the energy consumption of the Sony 11" OLED-TV is about 45w,but the standard consumption of 40" LCD-TV is less than 250w).But I don't understand why OLED-TV is less efficient than LCD-TV?
daltonlanny's Avatar daltonlanny 01:13 AM 03-25-2008
Dang it.
And I thought OLED was supposed to be way more efficient than either plasma or LCD.
At least thats what I read somewhere.
I also read somewhere that OLED's may have burn-in issues as well.
All this is very disappointing.
slacker711's Avatar slacker711 06:00 AM 03-25-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by daltonlanny View Post

Dang it.
And I thought OLED was supposed to be way more efficient than either plasma or LCD.
At least thats what I read somewhere.


The reason for the confusion is that there are different types of materials used to create OLED's. OLED's created using phosphorescent materials (PHOLED's) are substantially more energy efficient than those made using fluorescent materials. It gets even more complicated because some OLED's use a red PHOLED combined with a green and blue fluorescent material (this results in some energy savings versus an LCD or plasma).

This split is why you see energy consumption estimates that are all over the place. Toshiba was trying to create an OLED using all fluorescent materials, but as the recent quotes make clear, they now realize that the energy consumption would have been prohibitive. Other companies, such as Samsung SDI, are using PHOLED's and should be able to create TV's that use less energy. The key obstacle is increasing the lifetime of the blue and green materials (red is ready to go). That will also reduce the chances of burn-in.

Slacker
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob 07:09 AM 03-25-2008
Yeah, I'd much rather have Samsung's LED backlit LCD panels if Sony let us down like that. At least they lead to more efficiency over a flourescent light tube. As far as how much more efficient that is over OLED, tho, tha's another thing.
xrox's Avatar xrox 07:42 AM 03-25-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

The reason for the confusion is that there are different types of materials used to create OLED's. OLED's created using phosphorescent materials (PHOLED's) are substantially more energy efficient than those made using fluorescent materials. It gets even more complicated because some OLED's use a red PHOLED combined with a green and blue fluorescent material (this results in some energy savings versus an LCD or plasma).

This split is why you see energy consumption estimates that are all over the place. Toshiba was trying to create an OLED using all fluorescent materials, but as the recent quotes make clear, they now realize that the energy consumption would have been prohibitive. Other companies, such as Samsung SDI, are using PHOLED's and should be able to create TV's that use less energy. The key obstacle is increasing the lifetime of the blue and green materials (red is ready to go). That will also reduce the chances of burn-in.

Slacker

While this may be true, it seems the biggest issue with OLED power consumption has to do with the low light extraction efficiency and loss in the electronics.
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob 08:13 AM 03-25-2008
As I said, now that Samsung has had experience in LED technology with television, I'd like to think that they should be the ones that come out with something more innovative than Sony did, imho. After all, they've been using it as a backlight technology for the better part of the last three years, iirc. Now, having that same technology become the standard, well, that should be Sammy's bag, not Sony.

Don't get me wrong. I mean, you see Samsung using LED backlight in their higher-end LCD flat panels and DLP projection TVs, so it's only fitting that they come out with something that will actually redefine what this new LED technology can do with more efficiency. Even tho it may not be as efficient as "O" LED, but it does, however, lead to be more superior in PQ to traditional flourescent tubes and bulbs. So we'll need to see how well this will evolve.
navychop's Avatar navychop 07:38 PM 03-25-2008
OLED, in theory, and in the future, can be more efficient than other display technologies, and cheaper to make.

We'll see how things actually turn out.
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 08:23 PM 03-25-2008
Thanks for everyone's discussion,the main reason for the enery consumption of the OLED is the enery loss in the electronics.many reports tell the OLED cell is more efficient than TFT-LCD cell,but in the OLED-TV,the energy consumption increase much more,so Toshiba has relayed OLED-TV production. The large cool plate in Sony's 11'OLED -TV ialso indicate the main reason of consumption is due to loss of electronic circuits but not display.
slacker711's Avatar slacker711 09:09 PM 03-25-2008
I cant claim to be an expert, but I have trouble understanding why the chips driving the OLED display would need more energy when they are driving a display that requires less power. I can say with certainty that small scale (2 to 3") OLED's are using less power than their equivalent sized LCD's. These are created using red PHOLED's and green/blue fluorescent's.

FWIW, here is the most dramatic example that I know of showing the difference between OLED power consumption and LCD's. Of course, it is from a trade show so you have to take it with a grain of salt, but I do think it is directionally accurate. CMEL has generally used PHOLED's for their display and I assume that is the case here.


http://image.itmedia.co.jp/l/im/life..._ts_fpd015.jpg

http://image.itmedia.co.jp/l/im/life..._ts_fpd016.jpg

Slacker
Isochroma's Avatar Isochroma 12:08 AM 03-26-2008
Please fix your links, they are both dead.
slacker711's Avatar slacker711 05:29 AM 03-26-2008
Sorry about that, I guess I cant link directly to the pictures. Here is the article...if anybody speaks Japanese, I'd love to hear a translation of the text, but the pictures showing the comparative power draw speaks for itself.

http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...news089_2.html

Like I said, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I think this gives you some idea of at least the theoretical magnitude of the power savings. When we eventually get to all PHOLED OLED displays, the energy efficiency should be a significant advantage over comparable LCD's (and an even bigger advantage over Plasma's).

Slacker
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 07:08 PM 03-26-2008
We know all the light from displayer are all transformed from electric energy, so the energy consumption of TFT-LCD or AM-OLED are determined by the conversion efficiency and light extraction efficiency. conversion efficiency include loss in electronic circuits and light emitting material (to TFT-LCD is backlight),light extraction efficiency for AM-OLED is about 45%,including transmission of ITO and polar(to TFT-LCD is about 6%).But how we calculate the loss of electronic circuits? Of course, the electronic loss of OLED is larger than tft_LCD,for AM-OLED is current control display device,but the TFT-LCD is voltage control display device.
xrox's Avatar xrox 07:51 PM 03-26-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanxuanjun View Post

We know all the light from displayer are all transformed from electric energy, so the energy consumption of TFT-LCD or AM-OLED are determined by the conversion efficiency and light extraction efficiency. conversion efficiency include loss in electronic circuits and light emitting material (to TFT-LCD is backlight),light extraction efficiency for AM-OLED is about 45%,including transmission of ITO and polar(to TFT-LCD is about 6%).But how we calculate the loss of electronic circuits? Of course, the electronic loss of OLED is larger than tft_LCD,for AM-OLED is current control display device,but the TFT-LCD is voltage control display device.

Aside from the fact that I've stated this in post 459, it must also be said that there is a lot more going on than just conversion and light extraction. The overall efficiency of the display depends on a multiple of loss mechanisms (I'll post on this later). Also, if I'm not mistaken 45% extraction efficiency is not normal for OLEDs. This was achieved through a special TFT design if I recall (Isochroma can confirm).
xrox's Avatar xrox 09:09 PM 03-26-2008
This data is a few years old but you can see that very little energy is converted into light output. I would assume the numbers to be better at present time but the trend will be similar.


Isochroma's Avatar Isochroma 09:39 PM 03-26-2008
That table is just abysmal and depressing too. I'm hoping that the percents are for each loss, not total energy remaining at each step.
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 09:07 PM 03-27-2008
I'm sorry about the clerical error on light extraction efficiency,if include all factors ,the light extraction efficiency is only about 20%. All of this is based on the assumption that the color filter is not used, or else another 1/3 should be added.
Maybe I misunderstand your post above,if the percents are the total energy remaining after each step? Does the Drive TFT photo mismatch mearn the loss due to inbalance injectinon of n-type and p-type carriers?
Artwood's Avatar Artwood 11:09 PM 03-27-2008
When will OLED break the 70-inch barrier?
borf's Avatar borf 11:16 PM 03-27-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

When will OLED break the 70-inch barrier?

Any day now.
Riot Nrrrd's Avatar Riot Nrrrd 02:21 AM 03-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Sorry about that, I guess I cant link directly to the pictures. Here is the article...if anybody speaks Japanese, I'd love to hear a translation of the text, but the pictures showing the comparative power draw speaks for itself.

http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...news089_2.html

Go to this URL:

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/

Enter your itmedia URL in the box.

Underneath the URL box, there are two radio buttons. Choose the right one, not the (default) left one. Next to the radio button is a pull-down menu; choose the bottommost entry. Then click on the button in the orange border.

You'll get this back:

On the other hand, Seiko Epson had exhibited the organic LED display of eight inches that had been announced on October 15 (article related to →).

The spec is 100,000 by 800×480 pixels compared with 200 candelas and the contrasts: 1 or more.

50,000 hours or more (Until brightness is reduced by half) have been achieved by developing the improvement of the luminescence material and the original element structure.

The advantage of excelling in black reproducibility was made the best use of, and the demonstration image that the black of bezel integrates with backing of the image was thrown.

The background and bezel are integrated by using "Ultimateness and black".

It finished it up in the display for a fashionable shop.


Sample (left) that television and portable DVD player, etc. seem to be able to use and vehicle prototype

Eight inches both of the screen size though the example of applying three kinds of had been exhibited in this company.

It is said that this is because the vehicle was made assumption, and the development production line for small-scale mass production has already operated.

The mass production shipment is "Will examine it in two years. "

CHI MEI OPTOELECTRONICS(CMO)

The person of dissatisfying it in the size in Samsung and Epson wants you to peep into Taiwanese CHI MEI OPTOELECTRONICS (CMO) booth.

The AMOLED television of 25-inch size has been exhibited, though they are 1366×768 pixels.


25-inch organic EL panel of CMO.

Low power consumption is a big feature.

The spec is 10,000 compared with the contrast: 1 and brightness is 350 candelas.

Practical use is being examined around the television usage as understood from the use of the movie to the demonstration image.

In this company, it is said that it will aim for mass production in about 2010 on the assumption of the size of 25 inches or more.

The holding period of "FPD International 2007" until Friday, the 26th (10:00-17:00).

The admission fee is 2000 yen.

avdesign's Avatar avdesign 02:48 AM 03-30-2008
i have a question i like oled tech but if we have rbg leds already as a backlight source for lcds then why not just shirink said leds small enough for displays because i am concerned about the organic part of oled instead display manufactures should use non-organic led tech which is better in the long run
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 12:07 AM 04-01-2008
I heard someone said, many europe Companies have given up their plan to develop OLED for display device,but focus on white OLED light(OLLA project),such as Philips, H.C. Starck and Novaled. Is that true?
The Deuce's Avatar The Deuce 03:18 PM 04-01-2008
Man, those efficiency numbers are... disappointing to say the least. Seems to me that mainstream OLED production is farther off than a lot of us were hoping. Doesn't look to me like there's any obvious "big new thing" on the horizon as far as TV technology goes. As much as I enjoy Auditor55's misery, I think that SED still has an window of opportunity, if Canon could get their act together (although that seems about as likely as affordable 50" OLEDs in the next 5 years).
Zoo's Avatar Zoo 07:27 PM 04-01-2008
I'm hopeful for the future of OLED. I suspect it won't be my next set though. In another 3-5 years when I want to replace my 50" RPTV (720p) it will probably be with a 52"-55" LCD (due to the amount of gaming and ambient lighting in my viewing room). I suspect OLED will not be ready at 55" or so sizes in a few years.
yanxuanjun's Avatar yanxuanjun 07:28 PM 04-10-2008
why has everyone not anticipated in this forum for more than a week? Is there other forum we could talk on ?
Isochroma's Avatar Isochroma 07:44 PM 04-10-2008
The news has been quiet lately. I check it everyday and will post anything I find.
moreHD's Avatar moreHD 04:43 PM 04-11-2008
Does SHARP have plans to release OLED tv's? This company is kind of futuristic, in my opinion. Could they quickly convert production lines for OLEDs?

Which manufacturer ,you think will be selling 32" OLED tv's for xmas this year?
Tags: Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung
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