OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 193 - AVS Forum
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post #5761 of 11476 Old 04-28-2013, 09:34 PM
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I have to say that the fact that they are listing a June ship date for the curved OLED does make me question my conviction that LG has not yet shipped the original 55" OLED. Perhaps we just have 200 abnormally secretive rich Koreans that own them.
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post #5762 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

I have to say that the fact that they are listing a June ship date for the curved OLED does make me question my conviction that LG has not yet shipped the original 55" OLED. Perhaps we just have 200 abnormally secretive rich Koreans that own them.

You would think they'd be continuing to ship, however. Yet not a single review unit has found its way into the hands of any reviewer anywhere on earth. Suspicious? Implausible?

By the way, if 200 had shipped, at least half wouldn't be in the hands of rich, secretive Koreans, they'd be in the hands of display technology companies.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5763 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 06:30 AM
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I am sure those curved OLEDs will be nice to have as a monitor, particularly if you could afford three of them.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

But if one really want wide and curved, one could do that with LCDs for less money until the OLED prices drop (and are generally available.) wink.gif

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post #5764 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 07:28 AM
 
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No thanks. Curved LCD + the inherent notoriously diminished viewing angles. Egads.
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post #5765 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

No thanks. Curved LCD + the inherent notoriously diminished viewing angles. Egads.

Well, actually, that's the point entirely. If you have the normals all hitting you then almost nothing is "off angle".

But, no, I'm not interested either unless I *need* a 60 foot wide monitor. smile.gif

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post #5766 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 08:25 AM
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There are lots of reports today of the LG announcement. Here's another. I think the last line referring to availability in the US is an error and should be UK, not US.

Source: cnet

LG's curved 55-inch OLED TV now open for preorders

The 55EA9800, priced at roughly $13,500, will be available starting next month, but for starters will be limited to the Korean market.

After being the first TV manufacturer to launch an OLED TV, LG is now taking preorders for a new model featuring a curved screen. The 55EA9800, priced at 15 million Korean won (US$13,500), will be available starting from next month, but this is limited to the Korean market for now. Unfortunately, both availability and pricing for other countries will only be announced later.

Despite a sizable 55-inch screen, the 55EA9800 has an alluring 4.3mm-thin side profile and weighs just 17kg. Special "thin-transparent film speakers" are integrated within the panel's stand to maintain a sleek overall design. More importantly, the curved display is touted to deliver an IMAX-like viewing experience, according to the company.

It also shares the same WRGB technology used by the LG 55EM9700, which is now retailing in Korea and the US for around US$10,000.
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post #5767 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

No thanks. Curved LCD + the inherent notoriously diminished viewing angles. Egads.

Note this is is only slightly curved and should make nicer sweetspot viewing. Especially for monster sets like 110"@4K curved would be natural. But the real need is in computer monitors, very wide angle and curved aiming for substituting multimonitor arrangements. Anyway, yet another technological rigidity is broken.

Would be good to know what is the curvature radius of this display
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post #5768 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 11:31 AM
 
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Fair play, guys. Get in the sweet spot and bob's yer uncle. I don't personally like the restriction placed on the viewer unfortunately.
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post #5769 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 01:17 PM
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BTW, time to change this forum name as the world is not FLAT anymore... Flat@Curved Panel General ....biggrin.gif
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post #5770 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

BTW, time to change this forum name as the world is not FLAT anymore... Flat@Curved Panel General ....biggrin.gif
\

Oh yeah, I bet you think we actually walked on the moon tongue.gif

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post #5771 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 01:20 PM
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how about

Flat Panel (or sightly curved) ...

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post #5772 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

how about

Flat Panel (or sightly curved) ...

Somewhat flat panel. After all, no panel is perfectly flat. smile.gif

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post #5773 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

how about

Flat Panel (or sightly curved) ...

Somewhat flat panel. After all, no panel is perfectly flat. smile.gif

- Rich

Well, having an engineering background I decided to dive into the mathematical definitions of flatness. And OMG I had forgotten how nutty these theoreticians can be. It's considered a set of theories that are "not easy to handle".

I don't think any one of those guys ever kissed a girl in his life.

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post #5774 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 03:08 PM
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Yields: LG 50%, Samsung 20%.

As I've suspected for a while some are reporting Samsung's low yield rate and assuming LG was the same. It should be obvious by now they are not.
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post #5775 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ynotgoal View Post

Yields: LG 50%, Samsung 20%.

As I've suspected for a while some are reporting Samsung's low yield rate and assuming LG was the same. It should be obvious by now they are not.

Comparing what to what though? Samsung 4K OLED to LG 2K OLED?

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post #5776 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 
I have to say that the fact that they are listing a June ship date for the curved OLED does make me question my conviction that LG has not yet shipped the original 55" OLED. Perhaps we just have 200 abnormally secretive rich Koreans that own them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo 
You would think they'd be continuing to ship, however. Yet not a single review unit has found its way into the hands of any reviewer anywhere on earth. Suspicious? Implausible?

By the way, if 200 had shipped, at least half wouldn't be in the hands of rich, secretive Koreans, they'd be in the hands of display technology companies.

Someone should start a Official LG 55EM9700 OLED Owner Thread, see what happens wink.gif

Seems to me that there is some Sun Tzu stuff going on here. The curved OLED announcement will distract from the never delivered flat OLEDs. Next: the heart shaped OLED announcement will distract from the never delivered flat and curved OLEDs biggrin.gif
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post #5777 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 08:47 PM
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I've explained this in several previous posts, but Sony and Panasonic never had a collaboration to build OLED TVs. They have a collaboration to develop technology that would allow the building of OLED TVs. Follow that sentence closely to understand it. It's a JV to develop machines and processes that would allow the partners to individually (or jointly if they ever decided to) build production facilities for OLED TVs.

I've also explained several times that I believe Sony's plan to outsource manufacture will fail. It has failed Sony since the late 1990s, when they punted on developing PDP lines and their own TFT-LCD lines. They never made a profit buying other people's technology and they likely never will. People will draw a parallel to Apple, which of course makes none of its own displays or microprocessors or radios yet turns a nice profit. But TVs are not cell phones or tablets. If Sony tries to push all the costs onto AUO -- which seems likely -- AUO will simply turn around and sell panels to whomever wants to buy them at whatever price the market will bear and Sony will be again left profitless.

Panasonic to its credit seems to understand if they want to make a go of this they will need a production line. The idea that they will ship a TV from a line that doesn't exist using processes that barely exist beyond the prototyping stage and do so next year seems far-fetched at best. Even if we weren't talking OLED this would be true.

It is nevertheless important that we see signs Panasonic is moving forward. I continue to believe they are actually targeting 2015 for product. It remains my sincere hope that 2017 will be the year that OLED reaches the mainstream.





Concise, accurate, well analyzed.

Great post.

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post #5778 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 11:14 PM
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Someone should start a Official LG 55EM9700 OLED Owner Thread, see what happens wink.gif

Seems to me that there is some Sun Tzu stuff going on here. The curved OLED announcement will distract from the never delivered flat OLEDs. Next: the heart shaped OLED announcement will distract from the never delivered flat and curved OLEDs biggrin.gif

I think you're onto something... same applies to the ever growing list of countries where it is launching (despite not having been sighted for sale in any of them): Korea, US, UK, India, whatever.... I think they just want to keep people from forgetting about their OLED so they release these ridiculous press releases every few weeks to get some free media coverage. How about actually shipping something to a major review site? Panasonic manages to ship early models of their plasmas to review sites, why can't LG do the same?

Maybe China bought the entire production run so they can start reverse engineering them before anyone else. smile.gif
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post #5779 of 11476 Old 04-29-2013, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Well, having an engineering background I decided to dive into the mathematical definitions of flatness. And OMG I had forgotten how nutty these theoreticians can be. It's considered a set of theories that are "not easy to handle".

From this point of view 'flat' is just a special weird case of curved so the right title of the the forum should be: Curved Panel General & New CP Tech smile.gif
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I don't think any one of those guys ever kissed a girl in his life.

Civilized way: I don't think any one of those persons ever kissed a person in his life tongue.gif
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post #5780 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 03:55 AM
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Having done some retail shopping today, I'm now of the mindset that the price target for a 55" flagship TV come 2015 has to be considered at not higher than $2500 and realistically, it might be as low at $2000. This suggests to me that OLED targeting $3000 is no longer relevant for moving mainstream volumes. I've already dissected before how vanishingly small the existing flagship market is (10% of the global market is >50", 10% of that is flagship, which includes all sizes).

For OLED to move millions of units and assuming LCD doesn't cease to exist in that environment, it seems necessary for OLED to reach price parity with flagship LCD at an absolute maximum. That appears to be $2500 today and seems headed lower over time.

The important point here is that $2000 is fully 1/3 lower than $3000. It would arguably take one more year of improvement to get there. It seems, therefore, very unlikely we are seeing this happen before 2017 and nigh impossible it will occur before 2016.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5781 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 02:08 PM
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AVForums editor Phil Hinton visited LG earlier this month and has an audio presentation of his visit available. It includes a discussion of the LG OLED TV "in a retail environment available for sale that you can play with" in the LG shop (similar to an Apple store). The discussion is rather long, starts with a review of some plasma models, then a discussion of LG in general. The majority of the OLED discussion starts around the 40 minute mark. Some interesting points.

Strong rumors are one of the Japanese companies (wouldn't say which one) will release a 4K OLED next year "and it'll be less expensive than you think".
LG expects price parity with high end LED LCD in 2-3 years, depending on competition. 2 years if the Japanese rumor is true as LG would be forced to match price, 3 years otherwise (more realistically).
Compares OLED to plasma. He says, the OLED is expensive but "if I had 10K, I'd buy one. It's that good."
Expects a UK review panel this summer.
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post #5782 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 02:47 PM
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Nice find, thanks.

I still do not believe the production processes are ready enough for any Japanese company to release an OLED next year for a price "less expensive than I'd think." More importantly, I think quantity delivery is almost entirely out of the question for 2014.

As for "price parity", I alert people to a phenomenon I warned about with SED many years ago. I hope they understand what "price parity" means in 2-3 years. See my post above. High-end LCD is already not a $3000 category at 55", no matter what delusions Sony lives under. And there is next to no volume at $2500. If you doubt this, ask why Samsung has one model at $2500 and another half dozen that are as little as half as expensive. To fight toe-to-toe with LCD, the price needs to get to around $2000. While Phil Hinton would pay $10,000, virtually no one else will.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5783 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 03:00 PM
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I'm still suspicious of a guy who's been here almost a year and has only 33 posts.

I think it's against forum rules or something. :-P

Good info.

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post #5784 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 05:10 PM
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I'm still suspicious of a guy who's been here almost a year and has only 33 posts.

I think it's against forum rules or something. :-P

IDK, I've averaged apparently 2,000 posts per year, but currently I am down to about a rate of 600. If trends continue, my rate will be below 100 a year by December.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5785 of 11476 Old 04-30-2013, 09:29 PM
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I think that the Horror of Worldwide LCD Forces are attempting to silence Rogo with a cosmic ray accelerator that originates at a HARP station in Alaska.
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^HAARP, you mean
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No the accelerator means you don't have to use one of the A's.

There are a lot of A's around here--the ones that love LCD have harp sounds coming from them when they have gas.

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If LG OLED tech is so good why it is not seen in mobile displays where there are volumes and money? There are rumors LG will show first mobile product with OLED display in Q3/4, until then LG OLED has status of high-end PRware and will continue it if nothing appears.
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post #5789 of 11476 Old 05-01-2013, 12:32 AM
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If BMW makes such good cars, then how come it doesn't sell great mobile phones, too?

That is what we call a non sequitir and while it's more outrageous than the one you keep repeating, irkuck, it's not terribly so.

Just because LG's technology is good, it doesn't follow that their ability to scale that up to make mobile phone displays while also trying to scale it up to make television displays is so easy to do. This is especially true when their most important mobile-phone (and tablet) display customer has been demanded LCD screens. And since the OLED TV ramp has been going on for 2 years now, during which time that customer has demanded hundreds of millions of tablet and phone screens.

While I'm sure LG would like to tackle mobile and TV at the same time, it's just not trivial to do everything at once. I look forward to them moving into mobile. But I look equally forward to a non-Sharp company offering an IGZO LCD on mobile, too.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5790 of 11476 Old 05-01-2013, 02:04 PM
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This is Australia.


LG's curved OLED launches with Ewan McGregor's help

Source: cnet

LG has confirmed that the 55-inch curved OLED TV will be available outside of South Korea by the end of the year at an Australian launch.

LG has announced availability for the 55-inch curved OLED TV in Australia, which is the first country to be confirmed outside of South Korea, and introduced Ewan McGregor as its new brand ambassador.

Though pricing wasn't announced at the Australian launch of the LG 2013 range, the company said the TV will arrive before the end of the year. The set was announced for Korea at 15 million won (around AU$13,100); there is no availability or pricing for other regions, including the U.S.

LG Australia's marketing general manager Lambro Skropidis told CNET Australia that he was unable to say whether the curved version of OLED will arrive before the flat EM9700 OLED panel, which was also revealed at the Consumer Electronics Show this year.

LG had previously said that a standard 55-inch OLED panel would be available in Australia by the end of March for AU$11,999, though it is yet to be released there or in the States.

In a Q&A event with MC Andrew O'Keefe, Ewan McGregor spoke about his new relationship with LG, touching on the upcoming ad campaigns for OLED and Ultra HD, before describing his brand ambassador role and telling people that LG makes "f***ing good tellies."

Meanwhile, the company announced Australian pricing for the new Ultra HD (4K) range in 65 inches and 55 inches, costing AU$8,999 and AU$6,999, respectively. Local U.S. pricing is likely to be similar.
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