OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 268 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

At Panasonic's CES press conference they made no mention at all of OLED TVs. But they did say they will deliver Plasma picture quality on LCDs. They say their engineers have worked long and hard on that and conquered it.

That is right up there with Toshiba's announcement of their "Super Upconverting" DVD player after HD-DVD's death. SUC technology was better than Blu-ray according to them.
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post #8012 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 04:13 PM
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Location: board room of major TV manufacture: Present: all marketing VP's and several top engineers: Topic: release of OLED: VP#1: WE have to release this sucker in 2013. We can't keep putting it off even though it's still not perfect. VP#2: Man I hope we can sell them bnaby's at the prices we're going to have to sell em for. Even if we take a loss they will still be expensive. VP#3: The picture is fantastic and with Panasonic dropping plasma our picture will look even better. I'm not sure if outstanding PQ will be enough in today's market though. VP#1: So what can we do? We've got millions wrapped up in OLED but I agree, most people are quite content with mediocre LCD right now. Engineer#1; Well, we could probably curve the thing a little bit. VP#2: what's that going to do? Engineer#1: It's not going to do a damn thing but the customer won't know that, not if we spin it right. VP#1: You really think the public will buy that BS? Why not, they bought the" ha ha" new LED technology didn't they? Half the people still think LED TV's are some cool new technology. VP#1: Sounds good to me, curved it is.
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post #8013 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 05:32 PM
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You have a Bug in Samsung's board room?

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post #8014 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Location: board room of major TV manufacture: Present: all marketing VP's and several top engineers: Topic: release of OLED: VP#1: WE have to release this sucker in 2013. We can't keep putting it off even though it's still not perfect. VP#2: Man I hope we can sell them bnaby's at the prices we're going to have to sell em for. Even if we take a loss they will still be expensive. VP#3: The picture is fantastic and with Panasonic dropping plasma our picture will look even better. I'm not sure if outstanding PQ will be enough in today's market though. VP#1: So what can we do? We've got millions wrapped up in OLED but I agree, most people are quite content with mediocre LCD right now. Engineer#1; Well, we could probably curve the thing a little bit. VP#2: what's that going to do? Engineer#1: It's not going to do a damn thing but the customer won't know that, not if we spin it right. VP#1: You really think the public will buy that BS? Why not, they bought the" ha ha" new LED technology didn't they? Half the people still think LED TV's are some cool new technology. VP#1: Sounds good to me, curved it is.

I don't doubt it at all.

They convinced the buying public that edge lit is better than full back panel.

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post #8015 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I don't doubt it at all.

They convinced the buying public that edge lit is better than full back panel.
I think the buying public did that to themselves, honestly. That was part of the "thinner is better" marketing fad. And, just look, Sony brings back full array, and already a few people are bitching about how thick it is and whether it'll look funny mounted on their walls. So...form over function, and too many people are willing to give up the latter for the former. Everyone immediately sees "oh, it's so thin and pretty" and only the videophiles really give half a damn about what the set looks like when scrutinized.
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post #8016 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 08:10 PM
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Well dang it why cant I have both awesome picture and a thin TV? Oh wait I do... My St50 is one of the thinnest TVs I have seen. Its like a sheet of paper compared to most LCD TVs.

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post #8017 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 09:06 PM
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Panasonic did show a flat 55" 4K OLED at IFA - oh well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5k8riW_e9fo
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post #8018 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 11:14 PM
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When they can finally produce them for sale, there will be flat OLEDs because people want to wall mount them and the customer provides the $$

Not all people and you can wall mount a curved TV. Samsung brings an adapter for their curved TV´s for wall mounting and I guess LG doing the same.
But when TVs getting bigger and bigger, a wall mounting in many viewing conditions makes no sense because the TV hangs to high with the top near the blanket. You can´t hang the bottom of a bigger TV in the same high position like a smaller one before to reach the same ideal viewing conditions. It´s better for your neck to looking with they eyes more downwards than upwards. That´s the reason why all manufactures now creates extravagant stand designs for their bigger TV´s.

Look at this viewing angle comparison:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/lg-55ea980w-p16197/test.html#full-review

The flatter TV has much badder distorsions from the side (look at Daniel Craig in the right picture) because it´s flat and missing the depth like in real life. For 3D the curved design makes much more sense than a flat TV. It works against the papier-mâché effect.

Impressions from the LG OLED-TVs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X15Ys8w9MeU&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r78Zp78vzWE&feature=youtu.be
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post #8019 of 11953 Old 01-08-2014, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Hey buddy I got a question for you, if the 77" or larger OLED becomes available down the road but it's only available in the curved format would you still consider getting one?

I doubt it, unless it was the model that could go flat (which is currently a prototype and not a product). Then I could leave it flat 99.999% of the time and show my friends the curving as "this jackass feature LG added". (The Samsung design is clunky by comparison, at least LG's curving mechanism is cool).

I don't believe that OLED is destined for curved only; I believe ultimately my design will win the hearts and minds of the industry (because it will sell more TVs).
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #8020 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Panasonic is showing curved 55" flexible 4K OLED prototypes in their CES booth.

Panasonic's 4K OLED TV curves both ways

For me the most impressive part of this display is the uniformity. Even with different view angles, the colors match up very well across the different panels. Good sign for their printing tech.
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post #8021 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 06:22 AM
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I've not had a chance to read through it thoroughly, but this article about the propsect of a new, cheaper approach to OLED technology seems worth a read...

http://www.thealmagest.com/novel-leds-pave-way-cheaper-displays/9422

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post #8022 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 08:43 AM
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"Consumers can expect to see new Panasonic OLED and LED LCD displays in stores in 2014..."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/01/06/panasonic-taking-ultra-hd-corporate/4343185/
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post #8023 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

"Consumers can expect to see new Panasonic OLED and LED LCD displays in stores in 2014..."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/01/06/panasonic-taking-ultra-hd-corporate/4343185/

Quote:
Quote:
"Consumers can expect to see new Panasonic OLED and LED LCD displays in stores in 2014, even though the emphasis during the CES press event was on corporate products. New 4K consumer displays will let you customize your TV with Xbox-like functions that recognize who is watching and load appropriate content. The new Info Bar also displays weather and other timely and "relevant information when you walk by," says Julie Bauer, president of Panasonic Consumer Electronic Co. "We want to redefine ... 21st century TV."

Sounds good but is there any truth to it? cool.gif

 

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post #8024 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 10:19 AM
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WSJ headline: TV is stuck in an innovation cul-de-sac

TV Makers Are Out of Ideas
The Ultra HD and Curved Sets at CES Are Distractions, Not Innovations

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303393804579308801012230792?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

(may need subscription)

this is the headline in the WSJ article


By
Farhad Manjoo



excerpts:

Jan. 8, 2014 8:26 p.m. ET

TV makers are showing off the latest bells and whistles at the Consumer Electronics Show. But don't be fooled, Farhad Manjoo says, TV's innovations are stuck in a rut.
...

I've got a four-year-old, 42-inch flat-screen TV that hangs ostentatiously above the mantle. But, according to the news from the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, flat is out.

Instead, according to the hucksters at CES, the latest and greatest TVs are curved, offering viewers a left-to-right concavity, like watching TV on a skateboarder's half-pipe. And, somehow, curved screens make TV better, TV makers say.

On a curved TV, Honey Boo Boo sounds like Einstein, MTV plays music videos, and "Saturday Night Live" is actually funny.

Well, no. TV is stuck in an innovation cul-de-sac. There are no new ideas in TV hardware that are worth paying for, so, thanks to competition and production efficiencies, good TVs keep getting cheaper. The cheaper they get, the more desperate TV makers become, filling their sets with more and more useless piffle...end

waiting for Art to respond...

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post #8025 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post"Consumers can expect to see new Panasonic OLED and LED LCD displays in stores in 2014..."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/01/06/panasonic-taking-ultra-hd-corporate/4343185/

Pinochio any one!

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post #8026 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 10:34 AM
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post #8027 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA View Post
 
Quote:
When they can finally produce them for sale, there will be flat OLEDs because people want to wall mount them and the customer provides the $$

Not all people and you can wall mount a curved TV. Samsung brings an adapter for their curved TV´s for wall mounting and I guess LG doing the same.
But when TVs getting bigger and bigger, a wall mounting in many viewing conditions makes no sense because the TV hangs to high with the top near the blanket. You can´t hang the bottom of a bigger TV in the same high position like a smaller one before to reach the same ideal viewing conditions. It´s better for your neck to looking with they eyes more downwards than upwards. That´s the reason why all manufactures now creates extravagant stand designs for their bigger TV´s.

Look at this viewing angle comparison:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/lg-55ea980w-p16197/test.html#full-review

The flatter TV has much badder distorsions from the side (look at Daniel Craig in the right picture) because it´s flat and missing the depth like in real life. For 3D the curved design makes much more sense than a flat TV. It works against the papier-mâché effect.

 

You're going to have to explain this one again.  Those images are showing the differences between a VA LCD screen vs. OLED.  Not curved vs. flat.

 

And if you're talking about dimensional distortions, I still don't see what you're saying about the flat being worse.  Here are the examples given in that article:

Quote:

 

Samsung UE46F8000 viewing angles

Viewing angles for the Samsung UE46F8000, which uses a PSA screen panel (VA family).
The image is clearly affected when the screen is viewed from the side.


Review: LG 55EA980W OLED TV viewing angles

Viewing angles for the LG 55EA980W OLED TV.  
The image hardly changes at all when viewed from an angle. This OLED TV behaves in a similar way to plasma screens.
 
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If you believe you can win an argument by stating that scientists "often" get things wrong, all you're doing is selectively ignoring the overwhelming legion of things they have gotten right. Viewed as an aggregate, scientists very very rarely get things wrong.
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post #8028 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin 
WSJ headline: TV is stuck in an innovation cul-de-sac

TV Makers Are Out of Ideas
The Ultra HD and Curved Sets at CES Are Distractions, Not Innovations

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303393804579308801012230792?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

(may need subscription)

this is the headline in the WSJ article


By
Farhad Manjoo



excerpts:

Jan. 8, 2014 8:26 p.m. ET

TV makers are showing off the latest bells and whistles at the Consumer Electronics Show. But don't be fooled, Farhad Manjoo says, TV's innovations are stuck in a rut.

I was splayed out in front of the tube the other day when I realized, with a start, that my life had lost all meaning. Or maybe it was just that "House Hunters" was on.

I couldn't tell. So I flipped to "The Real Housewives of Poughkeepsie." ("All hell breaks loose when Kathy discovers a no-boil recipe for lasagna.") Yet I still couldn't shake my ennui.

Then, like divine intervention, I realized what was wrong. Everything on TV was just too flat.

I've got a four-year-old, 42-inch flat-screen TV that hangs ostentatiously above the mantle. But, according to the news from the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, flat is out.

Instead, according to the hucksters at CES, the latest and greatest TVs are curved, offering viewers a left-to-right concavity, like watching TV on a skateboarder's half-pipe. And, somehow, curved screens make TV better, TV makers say.

On a curved TV, Honey Boo Boo sounds like Einstein, MTV plays music videos, and "Saturday Night Live" is actually funny.

Well, no. TV is stuck in an innovation cul-de-sac. There are no new ideas in TV hardware that are worth paying for, so, thanks to competition and production efficiencies, good TVs keep getting cheaper. The cheaper they get, the more desperate TV makers become, filling their sets with more and more useless piffle...end

waiting for Art to respond...
There must be an element of distraction in this year's CES line-up.

Lets throw folks lots of gimmicks in their face and hope they forget about the Plasma is superior/LCd is inferior mantra which has been in use for several years. ''Forget about Plasma! Take a look at these gimmicks!" seems to be this year's theme. Suddenly there are lots of FALD-ish TVs, curved, bendable curved, two ways bendable curved. Even the 21:9 TV is risen from the dead.
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post #8029 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 03:16 PM
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Maybe the lack of interest will cause prices to plummet lol. I'd give an objective, honest look at that Toshiba full array/local dimming set at the very least(since no OLED).

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post #8030 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You're going to have to explain this one again.  Those images are showing the differences between a VA LCD screen vs. OLED.  Not curved vs. flat.

And if you're talking about dimensional distortions, I still don't see what you're saying about the flat being worse.  Here are the examples given in that article:
 

Those pictures speak for themselves long live Plasmas
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post #8031 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 09:49 PM
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Why buy a OLED when you can buy a Sony 4K with quantum-dot technology for far less money....rolleyes.gif

http://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daly/time-to-buy-a-quantum-dot-tv/
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post #8032 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

WSJ headline: TV is stuck in an innovation cul-de-sac

.

I don't do this, but his article was quite similar to mine... which ran earlier.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/01/07/tvs-that-bend-stretch-clear-signs-of-a-desperate-industry/

(Not saying he even read mine; just that we saw the same universe unfolding....)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post

Why buy a OLED when you can buy a Sony 4K with quantum-dot technology for far less money....rolleyes.gif

http://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daly/time-to-buy-a-quantum-dot-tv/

Sony told Gary Merson the quantum-dot film was being removed from the 2014 models.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #8033 of 11953 Old 01-09-2014, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't do this, but his article was quite similar to mine... which ran earlier.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/01/07/tvs-that-bend-stretch-clear-signs-of-a-desperate-industry/

(Not saying he even read mine; just that we saw the same universe unfolding....)
Sony told Gary Merson the quantum-dot film was being removed from the 2014 models.

Sony will use the quantum-dot film in their 2014 models....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510298/sony-uhdtvs-at--ces-2014
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post #8034 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 12:16 AM
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And if you're talking about dimensional distortions, I still don't see what you're saying about the flat being worse. Here are the examples given in that article:

Yes I spoke about dimensional distorions and they are more obviously at the flat one from side viewing because the depth is missing. The proportions of the people looks worser than on the curved model. Look at Craig, he is more streched than on the curved OLED. The curve generates depth and for 3D viewing its a plus.
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post #8035 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post

Why buy a OLED when you can buy a Sony 4K with quantum-dot technology for far less money....rolleyes.gif

Maybe because viewing angles , contrast ratio and black level. Look below

LG OLED


SONY X9 UHD 2013
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post #8036 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post

Sony will use the quantum-dot film in their 2014 models....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510298/sony-uhdtvs-at--ces-2014

Depends on whose post you read.

Some say that quantum-dot film is deleted from the 2014s. Something about it being too expensive.

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post #8037 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 05:15 AM
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Here is some rather bad news for OLED fans right from Samsung at CES.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/01/09/reviewed-ces-hs-kim/4400101/

Louder is NOT better!
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post #8038 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMA View Post
 
Quote:
And if you're talking about dimensional distortions, I still don't see what you're saying about the flat being worse. Here are the examples given in that article:

Yes I spoke about dimensional distorions and they are more obviously at the flat one from side viewing because the depth is missing. The proportions of the people looks worser than on the curved model. Look at Craig, he is more streched than on the curved OLED. The curve generates depth and for 3D viewing its a plus.

 

It doesn't though.  I've looked at those photos, and still can't figure out what you're talking about.

 

Dimensionally there is just not some "ta da" moment here at all.


If you believe you can win an argument by stating that scientists "often" get things wrong, all you're doing is selectively ignoring the overwhelming legion of things they have gotten right. Viewed as an aggregate, scientists very very rarely get things wrong.
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post #8039 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

Here is some rather bad news for OLED fans right from Samsung at CES.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/01/09/reviewed-ces-hs-kim/4400101/

He placed 4K and OLED as both major improvements to picture quality.
IMHO, OLED is a major improvement and 4K *might* be a major improvement.

Aside from product issues, OLED does not require you to replace your player and AVR/Processor which is definitely a disadvantage tongue.gif

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post #8040 of 11953 Old 01-10-2014, 05:55 AM
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I had already written off Samsung for a real commercial ramp in either 2014 or 2015, but this essentially means that they have no idea if/when they are going to solve the technical problems around their OLED approach.

FWIW, there are quotes in the Korean media from LG Display's CEO that indicates that their Gen 8 fab is on track for a 2nd half launch. They mention deposition equipment which has been the open question around the launch of the fab.

http://www.zdnet.co.kr/news/news_view.asp?artice_id=20140107061708
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