OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 345 - AVS Forum
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post #10321 of 11399 Old 06-26-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
LG is reportedly increasing their investment in OLED production beyond the capacity coming on line next quarter.

LG Display to increase their OLED TV capacity in a new $788 million investment




There's more info in this article also: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2014/06/133_159850.html
I dont think that interpretation of the remarks is accurate. I think that the CEO was talking about the cost of the current expansion which adds 26,000 substrates to the existing capacity of 8,000 for a total of 34,000 substrates.

Nevertheless, the comments from the CEO were very aggressive. They arent backing off their bet on OLED's. They are telling their investors to expect significant contributions from OLED's in the next 18 months.
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post #10322 of 11399 Old 06-26-2014, 08:32 AM
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I feel like my previous post (which I've deleted to nip the S-storm in the bud) might be a bit misleading in that the real lifetime of "cut with dopants" blue OLED can reach 40,000 to 50,000 (and this isn't even close to the lifetime one can squeeze with "cutting" Dupont got 1 million hours out of red oled with "cutting http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journa....2009.133.html ), whereas the life time of pure blue oled ranges from 10,000 to 15,000 hours. The same thing with red for example, the uncut red oled has lifetime of 80,000 hours when the "cut" sports lifetime of 40,000 to 50,000 hours.

Cutting OLED materials called doping
Lifetime of oled also depends highly on deposition method.

Here's the perfect example of an OLED manufacturer lying about lifetime
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...rch_sony_oled/


By the way, I wouldn't hold my breath on the upcoming LG 4K OLEDs having plasma-grade lifespan. At least for now

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post #10323 of 11399 Old 06-26-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
I feel like my previous post (which I've deleted to nip the S-storm in the bud) might be a bit misleading in that the real lifetime of "cut with dopants" blue OLED can reach 40,000 to 50,000 (and this isn't even close to the lifetime one can squeeze with "cutting" Dupont got 1 million hours out of red oled with "cutting http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journa....2009.133.html ), whereas the life time of pure blue oled ranges from 10,000 to 15,000 hours. The same thing with red for example, the uncut red oled has lifetime of 80,000 hours when the "cut" sports lifetime of 40,000 to 50,000 hours.

Cutting OLED materials called doping
Lifetime of oled also depends highly on deposition method.

Here's the perfect example of an OLED manufacturer lying about lifetime
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...rch_sony_oled/


By the way, I wouldn't hold my breath on the upcoming LG 4K OLEDs having plasma-grade lifespan. At least for now
What's your opinion of the longevity of LG's oled technology?
Any guesstimates?
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post #10324 of 11399 Old 06-26-2014, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
What's your opinion of the longevity of LG's oled technology?
Any guesstimates?
If LG use novaled dopants and my guess is they do use novaled dopants as do Samsung( http://www.novaled.com/novaled/dopin...logy_for_oled/ few of them you can find here http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/material...ePage=19353482)
then my guess would be anywhere from 25,000 to 40,000 (or maybe even longer) to half brightness.
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post #10325 of 11399 Old 06-26-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
If LG use novaled dopants and my guess is they do use novaled dopants as do Samsung( http://www.novaled.com/novaled/dopin...logy_for_oled/ few of them you can find here http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/material...ePage=19353482)
then my guess would be anywhere from 25,000 to 40,000 (or maybe even longer) to half brightness.
thank you sir, based on my avg viewing hours a week of anywhere between 20-30 hrs, that gives me an aprox life span of 16-38 years
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post #10326 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 02:04 PM
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I hope the life span is a lot better in 6 years when I buy one..
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post #10327 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 03:10 PM
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I hope the life span is a lot better in 6 years when I buy one..
Oh so you buy a tv every 20 years?
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post #10328 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 03:32 PM
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Oh so you buy a tv every 20 years?
Every 10 or 11
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post #10329 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Audio Karma View Post
Every 10 or 11
Well you should be ok with LG OLED's 30.000 hours. 20+ years before brightness goes down by a wide margin.
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post #10330 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 04:41 PM
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Well you should be ok with LG OLED's 30.000 hours. 20+ years before brightness goes down by a wide margin.
Is this a concern? Don't we here at AVS upgrade long before it's an issue...
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post #10331 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 05:28 PM
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That 30,000 hour claim is likely theoretical. I doubt they've actually been running these panels 24/7 for the past 3.5 years to confirm those claims. It also doesn't guarantee that all the pixels will still be functioning after all that time since they seem to be dying randomly even past 1000 hours.
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post #10332 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
That 30,000 hour claim is likely theoretical. I doubt they've actually been running these panels 24/7 for the past 3.5 years to confirm those claims. It also doesn't guarantee that all the pixels will still be functioning after all that time since they seem to be dying randomly even past 1000 hours.
Are the manufacturing departments of LGD bi-polar?

But I'm confused: I was under the impression that the later purchases of the TV were substantially better in some of the otherwise crummy regards (IR, the weird motherboard imprint IR, dead pixels).

Yes, it's true that color does not exist in the physical universe: it exists only in the brain. But this doesn't mean that one person can see blue internally as yellow and that another could see it as red. The reactions and recognition of colors is neurological in nature. Once it occurs there isn't yet another evaluation that takes place. Blue looks to me as blue in precisely the same way it does to you, by definition.
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post #10333 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Is this a concern? Don't we here at AVS upgrade long before it's an issue...
No concern for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
That 30,000 hour claim is likely theoretical. I doubt they've actually been running these panels 24/7 for the past 3.5 years to confirm those claims. It also doesn't guarantee that all the pixels will still be functioning after all that time since they seem to be dying randomly even past 1000 hours.
I will believe what the manufacturer says until someone proves they didnt test it the years you mention. I hope they solve the subpixels issue some people mentioned.
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post #10334 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 06:09 PM
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I will believe what the manufacturer says until someone proves they didnt test it the years you mention. I hope they solve the subpixels issue some people mentioned.
This I don't follow. We're talking about people actually reporting on dead pixels very recently after purchasing their TV as well as out of the box. That trumps any such theory or statement from a manufacturer, no?

Frankly, the dying subpixels would freak me out the most. I could live with the idea that manufacturing these things can cause some dead subs better than I could this unknown axe over my TV that subs may croak at a moment's notice.

"'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This subpixel is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the display 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-SUBPIXEL!!"
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Yes, it's true that color does not exist in the physical universe: it exists only in the brain. But this doesn't mean that one person can see blue internally as yellow and that another could see it as red. The reactions and recognition of colors is neurological in nature. Once it occurs there isn't yet another evaluation that takes place. Blue looks to me as blue in precisely the same way it does to you, by definition.

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post #10335 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 06:52 PM
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This I don't follow. We're talking about people actually reporting on dead pixels very recently after purchasing their TV as well as out of the box. That trumps any such theory or statement from a manufacturer, no?
We are talking about two different things: one is hours before the panel gets darker and the other thing is stuck subpixels. Thats why I said I believe LG in their claim the OLED tv gets darker after 30.000 hours of use.
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post #10336 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 06:59 PM
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We are talking about two different things: one is hours before the panel gets darker and the other thing is stuck subpixels. Thats why I said I believe LG in their claim the OLED tv gets darker after 30.000 hours of use.
Okidoki. It looked to me like you were responding to the 2nd statement in the quote, not the first, hence the confusion.

Yes, it's true that color does not exist in the physical universe: it exists only in the brain. But this doesn't mean that one person can see blue internally as yellow and that another could see it as red. The reactions and recognition of colors is neurological in nature. Once it occurs there isn't yet another evaluation that takes place. Blue looks to me as blue in precisely the same way it does to you, by definition.
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post #10337 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 08:25 PM
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I checked a set with 3000 hours on it and I must have had 20-30 dead sub-pixels. They jumped out at you with the slides form 2 feet away but were not visible when watching the set.

Dead sub pixels are my biggest worry, A nice cluster in blue can mess up a skyline.
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post #10338 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 09:32 PM
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Beyond just brightness, we should also be concerned about color shift as the set ages. Hopefully it won't get bad enough that it can no longer be calibrated.
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post #10339 of 11399 Old 06-28-2014, 09:48 PM
 
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I checked a set with 3000 hours on it and I must have had 20-30 dead sub-pixels. They jumped out at you with the slides form 2 feet away but were not visible when watching the set.

Dead sub pixels are my biggest worry, A nice cluster in blue can mess up a skyline.
Demo unit, I take it? Those go through some serious stress tests. Plague has, I think, 5 after 1000+ hours. I hope this doesn't mean the frequency of subpixel failure increases beyond 1000 hours (just when we thought we were out of the woods after the first 50).
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post #10340 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 06:48 AM
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I wonder if dead pixels etc will be less visible on 4k screen compared to 2k screen due to smaller pixels (but 4x as meany to go wrong)
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post #10341 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 07:11 AM
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Maybe they should have waited just a little bit longer before putting these OLED's on the market to work out some of theseproblems.. FIRST...
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post #10342 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Beyond just brightness, we should also be concerned about color shift as the set ages. Hopefully it won't get bad enough that it can no longer be calibrated.
Shouldn't be a big issue with LG's that much (in this stacked design, as the blue layer fades, the red/yellow does with it----or so we've discussed ad infinitum a couple years ago). But in reality we just don't know how these things are going to hold up.

What freaks me out the most are the dead (and dying) pixels.

Yes, it's true that color does not exist in the physical universe: it exists only in the brain. But this doesn't mean that one person can see blue internally as yellow and that another could see it as red. The reactions and recognition of colors is neurological in nature. Once it occurs there isn't yet another evaluation that takes place. Blue looks to me as blue in precisely the same way it does to you, by definition.
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post #10343 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 08:24 AM
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Beyond just brightness, we should also be concerned about color shift as the set ages. Hopefully it won't get bad enough that it can no longer be calibrated.
There are ways to make R,G,B pixels age at the same rate with doping (that's what Samsung are doing right now). Novaled are pioneering the doping field and simultaneously Merck and DuPont and others are working on new hydrogen-turn (unlike phosphor OLED materials tend to turn to hydrogen when ionized) resistant OLED materials. However, right now there's no way of really knowing how doping affects OLED materials in the long run ...


By the way, hydrogen turn free OLED can never die, in theory though

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post #10344 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 10:09 AM
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I wonder if dead pixels etc will be less visible on 4k screen compared to 2k screen due to smaller pixels (but 4x as meany to go wrong)
Of course they will be less visible (unless you sit twice as close).
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post #10345 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 10:12 AM
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Maybe they should have waited just a little bit longer before putting these OLED's on the market to work out some of theseproblems.. FIRST...
Nonsense! They're fine as long as you're using the right HDMI cable. These guys are all just using cheap Monoprice cables instead of ones from Mapleshade. That's why they're having so many problems.
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post #10346 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 10:24 AM
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Nonsense! They're fine as long as you're using the right HDMI cable. These guys are all just using cheap Monoprice cables instead of ones from Mapleshade. That's why they're having so many problems.
And the WORLD is really FLAT too...

Like I said before...the Mapleshade HDMI PLUS cable is better BUT TALK IS CHEAP !
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post #10347 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 12:20 PM
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And the WORLD is really FLAT too...

Like I said before...the Mapleshade HDMI PLUS cable is better BUT TALK IS CHEAP !
It isn't talk, it's applying logic.

You know you can't trust someone when they refer to products in the full name evey time. "Mapleshade HDMI" and "Quislver Gold" where normal people would say "that sh*t works good". You constantly sound like a commercial, AK.
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post #10348 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 01:56 PM
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What, the type of HDMI cable affects pixels dying?
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post #10349 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 02:09 PM
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What, the type of HDMI cable affects pixels dying?
The one that provides 120 volts!!
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post #10350 of 11399 Old 06-29-2014, 02:10 PM
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What, the type of HDMI cable affects pixels dying?
Lol of course not, that's impossible. I'm assuming stereodude was being sarcastic.

I could most definitely see 20-30 dead from a reasonable viewing distance of 6-7 feet. I could see the 13 (blue) I had on my other panel during sea and sky pans.

On my first panel I started with 3 out and they kept on dying.

My second panel started with zero dead. In the first 50 hours 3 died, then one came back to life. It's even weirder that this happened, because it's usually thought to be impossible. But I assure you it was dead, not stuck, and it came back. After 1000 hours three more blues died for a total of 5, which is still not really noticeable but a little worrisome.

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