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post #10471 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 12:15 AM
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I never much believed the Samsung rumor was real, so I really doubt -- now -- that it was real.

It seems much easier to conclude that the rumor was false than that Samsung canceled something deep in development.

As I've explained on numerous occasions, I don't believe Samsung has any technology at present to mass produce OLED TVs.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #10472 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Which models have been LGD?
I believe any of the passive 3 D Sony (or anything ) are LGD panels that's exclusive to LGD AFAIK

The W600B are all Samsung SPVA rear lit

the w800B are AUO AMVA edge lit with the exception of some of the EU /AE 42" being LGD passive 3D

the w850 are mostly active 3D AUO AMVA edge lit there may be a passive 3D LGD panel or two in the mix .

Sony* 9x and 9.5x this year are AUO or LGD dynamic edge light panel mostly

LGD panel in a Sony can be either edge or rear light depending on the model AFAIK

I believe *some TOTL 9.5x are LGD rear light FALD also

65 X950B Flagship 4K is active 3D I think AUO ?

The new 79" 9.5x Sony is an LGD panel

The 50R550 and few other models used LGD panels last year mostly some of the the premium models .

70W850B is active 3D could ba AUO AMVA or Samsung panel maybe ?

the 9.5x 85" is supposed to be active 3D CMO Innolux panel unless they changed it but AFAIK CMO Innolux the only 85" around

Sonys been spreading the love to LGD for a while now ( couple of years anyway ) I believe the Sony 4K *may* mostly be LGD don't hold me to that though I could be wrong ☺


In any event I believe all the LCD passive 3D are LGD panel no matter the brand of set .
.

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post #10473 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I never much believed the Samsung rumor was real, so I really doubt -- now -- that it was real.

It seems much easier to conclude that the rumor was false than that Samsung canceled something deep in development.

As I've explained on numerous occasions, I don't believe Samsung has any technology at present to mass produce OLED TVs.
It could be only they can't do 4K cost effective with their allegedly superior OLED technology . I'm no expert at panel making but since they have the AMOLED plants making smaller panels in volume maybe it would just be a matter of ordering larger OLED substrate material and ramping up some new lines or re tooling existing lines in existing plants.


I think they they have the technology ( maybe to expensive , maybe poor yields or both ? ) but maybe it is more of a conscious business decision with little risk *at this point* because of their sales volume . OTOH Sony is committed to the premium market and would have to offer OLED same with Panasonic they can both get from LGD .

OTOH I think Samsung can do pretty much what it wants *for now * because of their scale
but if OLED works out well down the road they will have to save face and ramp up some panels .

2 things I don't like about Samsung though are curved screen and stupid chicken foot TV stands
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post #10474 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 06:17 AM
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Could this new tech be a successor to OLED?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/11/nano-pixel/#comments
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post #10475 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
It could be only they can't do 4K cost effective with their allegedly superior OLED technology . I'm no expert at panel making but since they have the AMOLED plants making smaller panels in volume maybe it would just be a matter of ordering larger OLED substrate material and ramping up some new lines or re tooling existing lines in existing plants.


I think they they have the technology ( maybe to expensive , maybe poor yields or both ? ) but maybe it is more of a conscious business decision with little risk *at this point* because of their sales volume . OTOH Sony is committed to the premium market and would have to offer OLED same with Panasonic they can both get from LGD .

OTOH I think Samsung can do pretty much what it wants *for now * because of their scale
but if OLED works out well down the road they will have to save face and ramp up some panels .

2 things I don't like about Samsung though are curved screen and stupid chicken foot TV stands
Samsung makes small OLEDs via stenciling( putting a "shadow" mask over a substrate and "showering" it with OLED material stuff). The problem with their process is that it has too many time-consuming steps (scans) to mass produce OLED TVs, because you'd have move a shadow mask up to 5 times at best to make a 55 inch panel which slows things down significantly and the higher the resolution gets the smaller the shadow mask gets hence the more time consuming steps there are to preform
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post #10476 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
Could this new tech be a successor to OLED?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/11/nano-pixel/#comments
It seems like a disruptive tech, a game changer. I think it can be the next big things only if it's easily mass produced, though. 200 inch 2000k wall TVs...

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post #10477 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
I believe any of the passive 3 D Sony (or anything ) are LGD panels that's exclusive to LGD AFAIK

[...]

In any event I believe all the LCD passive 3D are LGD panel no matter the brand of set.
That's where I thought you were headed: but that's only a matter of licensing though. There were some folks in the Sony R550A and W802A threads insisting that the FPR technology had been licensed to AUO. Beats me how accurate that notion is. But the licensing game is confusing: I can tell you that everyone was expecting my R550A to be IPS (complete with chevron shaped pixels) and it isn't.

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!

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post #10478 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
That's where I thought you were headed: but that's only a matter of licensing though. There were some folks in the Sony R550A and W802A threads insisting that the FPR technology had been licensed to AUO. Beats me how accurate that notion is. But the licensing game is confusing: I can tell you that everyone was expecting my R550A to be IPS (complete with chevron shaped pixels) and it isn't.
I'm no expert I just try to assimilate what I read here and there ( sometimes correctly ,sometimes not ☺) it seems
Have you figured out the panel in your R550A ? could be interesting I thought I read here it was LGD ?
ofc what I thought I read and what I actually read could be two different things ☺ ? It's very easy to find in the service menu .

AFAIK I haven't seen any passive 3D from AUO or any other LCD yet ....but don't take that to the bank either !

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post #10479 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:22 PM
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IIRC last year's Sony 55/65X900A fits the bill.
We also have my current TV, last year's Sony 50W685 that has an AUO VA panel with passive 3D, see http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/con...L-50W685A/list
Confirmed it myself in the service menu. Not available in the US though.
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post #10480 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
Samsung makes small OLEDs via stenciling( putting a "shadow" mask over a substrate and "showering" it with OLED material stuff). The problem with their process is that it has too many time-consuming steps (scans) to mass produce OLED TVs, because you'd have move a shadow mask up to 5 times at best to make a 55 inch panel which slows things down significantly and the higher the resolution gets the smaller the shadow mask gets hence the more time consuming steps there are to preform
Interesting I didn't know they had to 'piss out the panels ' though stencils multiple times .............. you think LG does it
the other way and just poops them out all at once ?

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
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post #10481 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappadappadu View Post
IIRC last year's Sony 55/65X900A fits the bill.
We also have my current TV, last year's Sony 50W685 that has an AUO VA panel with passive 3D, see http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/con...L-50W685A/list
Confirmed it myself in the service menu. Not available in the US though.

Interesting ...good to know and loose the incorrect assumption I believed ,guess *some of the stuff I read or thought I read was wrong (forum postings this instance ) wouldn't be the first time

Thanks for posting that !

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post #10482 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
Could this new tech be a successor to OLED?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/11/nano-pixel/#comments

Don't know about the artificail retina thing but the rest sounds interesting regarding displays ........ maybe a 64K TV ?

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #10483 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Interesting I did't know they had to 'piss out the panels ' though stencils multiple times .............. you think LG does it
the other way and just poops them out all at once ?
LG pump out OLED sheets I don't remember exactly how big they are, but they are 100 inches and bigger. You should ask slacker or Rogo if you wanna know more about how big these sheets are or you can go back a couple thousands posts, one by one, (unfortunately, I don't really remember when we were discussing it, too) to when we were discussing the LG's 8G line to find the exact info on it yourself.

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post #10484 of 11415 Old 07-15-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
Samsung makes small OLEDs via stenciling( putting a "shadow" mask over a substrate and "showering" it with OLED material stuff). The problem with their process is that it has too many time-consuming steps (scans) to mass produce OLED TVs, because you'd have move a shadow mask up to 5 times at best to make a 55 inch panel which slows things
down significantly and the higher the resolution gets the smaller the shadow mask gets hence the more time consuming steps there are to preform

re/tubetwister
Interesting I didn't know they had to 'piss out the panels ' though stencils multiple times .............. you think LG does it
the other way and just poops them out all at once ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
LG pump out OLED sheets I don't remember exactly how big they are, but they are 100 inches and bigger. You should ask slacker or Rogo if you wanna know more about how big these sheets are or you can go back a couple thousands posts, one by one, (unfortunately, I don't really remember when we were discussing it, too) to when we were discussing the LG's 8G line to find the exact info on it yourself.
Much easier 2 find with Google boolean operators just type

avs: lg 8g oled + oled technology advancements + 8g

OR type for more without AVS to fetch more articles

lg 8g oled + oled technology advancements + 8g


or this with quotations wrapping phrase
avs: lg 8g oled +" oled technology advancements "+ 8g



I could add the oporators "+ rogo+slacker +lg " to drill down a little further also but no need to in this case .
little easier than it used to be in that Google understands *some phrases ( sometimes better within quotation marks ) now .
anyway thanks for the discussion info .


Some quotes from LG at CES 2014 from first Google query above with panel size info only took a few seconds 2 find
Quote:
"LG will be able to produce gigantic 110-inch OLED TV, "

Another LG.Display spokesperson says that "LG.Display has reached 70% production yield,"

" Samsung is said to have far lower yields at around 40-50%"

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post #10485 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 03:53 PM
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LG uses the 8G substrate size for their planned production, which will have a capacity of 26,000 sheets per month (if memory serves).

8G substrates are 2200 x 2500mm. You can make 6 55-inch TVs from one of them. If you don't cut the top four pieces, you get a single 110-inch display.

LG is currently moving towards full production on 8G (they've been processing "half substrates" apparently), but the way their method works is that they vaporize the OLED material and then allow it to solidify on the sheets. They need to do this for each OLED primary (there were debates about whether they were using r/g/b/ or just y/b; I always believed it was a three-layer design). Please note, this is the manufacturing stage and has nothing at all to do with the WRGB part you end up with. LG makes giant "white" sheets using primary light colors, then filters them back to get red, green and blue -- as well as white. It does this because it's easier to manufacture.

Vapor deposition of an entire layer is orders of magnitude easier than what Samsung is trying to do, especially on large substrates.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #10486 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
LG uses the 8G substrate size for their planned production, which will have a capacity of 26,000 sheets per month (if memory serves).

8G substrates are 2200 x 2500mm. You can make 6 55-inch TVs from one of them. If you don't cut the top four pieces, you get a single 110-inch display.


Vapor deposition of an entire layer is orders of magnitude easier than what Samsung is trying to do, especially on large substrates.
Interesting thanks for posting I've read The Samsong process is thought to produce a superior but less cost effecting and
poorer yield panel than the LGD panel . I wonder if they will still try to improve on the current process at the prototype level or just stay out of the OLED TV product all together until further notice . hard to imagine they would not hedge their bets

I could imagine Samsung buying LGD OLED panels would cause them to loose face in light of their past (maybe present) adversarial relationships with LG and ofc their culture . OTOH they are not (or at least haven't been) to shy about copying some things every now and then I coulden imagine them doing that with the LG OLED though I would imagine there are alot of patents involved in the LGD product. .

PS , cool sig !

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post #10487 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
PS , cool sig !
Yes, Rogo's sig (regarding HDMI cables) is spot on. Many of us have tried and tried to get this concept across to people, and the closest I've ever been able to get to having the stubbornest of people understand this concept is to propose the similie that it's like emailing a file and having it show up 100% ok, and then emailing it again over a more expensive cable and expecting it to say something better.

Other than that it's an endless battle. Even among people who should know better. The psychosomatic effects involved in looking for an improvement and finding it are tremendously powerful.
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Belief is a more potent force than gravity.
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post #10489 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Yes, Rogo's sig (regarding HDMI cables) is spot on. Many of us have tried and tried to get this concept across to people, and the closest I've ever been able to get to having the stubbornest of people understand this concept is to propose the similie that it's like emailing a file and having it show up 100% ok, and then emailing it again over a more expensive cable and expecting it to say something better.

Other than that it's an endless battle. Even among people who should know better. The psychosomatic effects involved in looking for an improvement and finding it are tremendously powerful.

ha ha ha ......E mail analogy is priceless ............ but true The believers have expectation bias ☺

Had an EE ( that owns a well regarded Speaker co . ) tell me in a forum discussion over at AK once about expensive audio cables . they still have members over there that are believers though but they are a litle more tolerant of mis information/disinformation there so there are two firmly divided camps there ,the smart ones and the audiophools
funny thing is (and unsurprisingly ) the EE's there are always in the former group

Anyway he said " You cant hear the wires " !
He said they tested all kinds with and without measurements years ago. He also said "just keep buying inexpensive decent ones like you have been" .

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post #10490 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Belief is a more potent force than gravity.


History and current events today bears that out (wars and all ! )

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post #10491 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 06:44 PM
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Well to not derail the OLED thread any further, please take a look at these hysterical posts from some time ago in yet another thread regarding HDMI quality, etc., etc., hooey, hooey, ....

I had found a beauty of a nutjob online seriously saying that wrapping his power cords in cotton yielded a softer sound.

Place further HDMI cable comments there maybe.

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #10492 of 11415 Old 07-16-2014, 08:54 PM
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This goes back to something I've been explaining for a long while: There is no near-term-horizon solution for the "front cover" problem at all.
The two companies are attempting to replace the existing tempered glass with the optical plastic, which was recently developed by a local company, and use it for the cover glass. The optical plastic is more break-resistant and scratch-resistant than the existing tempered glass. It is more durable, but costs less than half that of the tempered glass. “Both companies had good test results in terms of performance,” said an insider from the company that developed the optical plastic. “They are conducting final tests before application.”

SEC and LGE are known to seriously consider using this optical plastic for not only low-end phones, but also streamlined flexible displays scheduled to be released in the second half.

http://english.etnews.com/device/2964419_1304.html
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Vapor deposition of an entire layer is orders of magnitude easier than what Samsung is trying to do, especially on large substrates.
Unfortunately, this method seems to have poor uniformity as seen in the streaky and patchy dark grays on the LG OLED. It look like neither LG or Samsung have an ideal solution.
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post #10494 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 06:21 AM
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LG uses the 8G substrate size for their planned production, which will have a capacity of 26,000 sheets per month (if memory serves).

8G substrates are 2200 x 2500mm. You can make 6 55-inch TVs from one of them. If you don't cut the top four pieces, you get a single 110-inch display.

LG is currently moving towards full production on 8G (they've been processing "half substrates" apparently), but the way their method works is that they vaporize the OLED material and then allow it to solidify on the sheets. They need to do this for each OLED primary (there were debates about whether they were using r/g/b/ or just y/b; I always believed it was a three-layer design). Please note, this is the manufacturing stage and has nothing at all to do with the WRGB part you end up with. LG makes giant "white" sheets using primary light colors, then filters them back to get red, green and blue -- as well as white. It does this because it's easier to manufacture.

Vapor deposition of an entire layer is orders of magnitude easier than what Samsung is trying to do, especially on large substrates.
And just for the sake of making the "why" of "why Samsung are not very likely to up&start making OLED TVs any time soon if ever" perfectly clear I'm gonna put in my two cents by saying that Samsung at present have no facilities to produce enough LTPS backplanes to meet the demand on LTPS backplanes if they decide to get back to making OLED TVs. They'd have to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into LTPS production facilities first before they'd able to make any sensible number of OLED TVs and we don't really see that happening (Samsung building LTPS facilities for large-sized panel), do we, now?

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post #10495 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 09:29 AM
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vinnie_RIP has been banned. The mark of a junior moderator is to forget that his role is one of a resource and not one of an authority. If this represents a systemic attitude here then the forum itself is no longer about the members but about the administration structure. They seem to have inverted this paradigm over time.
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Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #10496 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 12:46 PM
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The two companies are attempting to replace the existing tempered glass with the optical plastic, which was recently developed by a local company, and use it for the cover glass. The optical plastic is more break-resistant and scratch-resistant than the existing tempered glass. It is more durable, but costs less than half that of the tempered glass. “Both companies had good test results in terms of performance,” said an insider from the company that developed the optical plastic. “They are conducting final tests before application.”

SEC and LGE are known to seriously consider using this optical plastic for not only low-end phones, but also streamlined flexible displays scheduled to be released in the second half.

http://english.etnews.com/device/2964419_1304.html
Interesting article. My experience is in optics and I've never seen any plastic that has better scratch resistance than glass. Glass has superior clarity as well. It is rarely used anymore in US eyewear due to weight and poor shatter-resistance. Many asian countries still prominently use high-index glass but here we are subject to minimum thickness regulations (OSHA) that other countries don't have to adhere too.

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post #10497 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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FWIW, a Korean company claims to have developed a plastic with a hardness rating of 9H.

http://english.etnews.com/device/2964185_1304.html
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post #10498 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 01:41 PM
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FWIW, a Korean company claims to have developed a plastic with a hardness rating of 9H.

http://english.etnews.com/device/2964185_1304.html
This is a long discussion, but hardness isn't usually equated with impact resistance as they seem to in that article.

Anyone who has ever tried to drill through anything made of ceramic has quickly learned that something impossibly hard can be brittle as all hell. If that bit isn't made of diamond, it'll just spin and spin and spin with no purchase.

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #10499 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 04:12 PM
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I'm glad to hear that a company that has developed an optical plastic claims it's better than glass and half the price. Whew.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, however.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #10500 of 11415 Old 07-17-2014, 06:53 PM
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I'm glad to hear that a company that has developed an optical plastic claims it's better than glass and half the price. Whew.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, however.
No way am I eating any stinking plastic.
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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung

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