OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 358 - AVS Forum
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post #10711 of 10729 Old 09-01-2014, 10:46 AM
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Well, now a silly curved soundbar for the silly curved OLEDs.
http://www.avforums.com/news/samsung...ifa-2014.10632
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post #10712 of 10729 Old 09-01-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Well, now a silly curved soundbar for the silly curved OLEDs.
http://www.avforums.com/news/samsung...ifa-2014.10632
+ the silly curved HDTV antenna...



http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XD3uYlk...-Curve-30.html
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post #10713 of 10729 Old 09-01-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
You guys should all stop joking about this. Combine a curved TV with a curved Soundbar and a curved Antenna and we all might finally be able to stand down from code red and actually enjoy the content we are viewing: http://globalnews.ca/news/1380703/ne...ogy-impresses/

p.s. how exactly does one become a 'curve experience spokesperson'? :-)
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post #10714 of 10729 Old 09-01-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
http://globalnews.ca/news/1380703/ne...ogy-impresses/

p.s. how exactly does one become a 'curve experience spokesperson'? :-)
Yo, Dude married to Christina Hendricks, call your agent!
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post #10715 of 10729 Old 09-01-2014, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

At this point only LG is able to mass produce and even Samsung is left behind so it is rather premature y to talk about world in which everybody is stamping big OLEDs like pancakes. The question what will be after 4K OLED is not concerning me as I have set my final display target as even if the 8K comes this will not be my thing,. I am just looking from the point of view of current discussions of 2K vs. 4K, any discussion about benefits of 8K vs. 4K in a standard living room viewing conditions will surely be just waste of time. There is of course possibility for invention of earth-shattering super displays, real 3D, holography and so on. But I do not see it likely before my EOL, though that may look different for somebody with projected long time before EOL, like extending to the second half of the century. Just I think it is reasonable and logical to set the final target as 4K OLED of the size where benefits of the 4K should be visible and absolving oneself from any 8K fever.


I think OLED is here to stay. I've attended a meeting at Parchem http://www.parchem.com/about-us.aspx about OLED's future i.e. marketing where I had a first glimpse on how OLED will be marketed. There was a man from Merck who said that Merck are gonna sell 30,000 hours (low-end), 50,000h (mid-end) and 80,000 hours (not for mass-market) materials for printing by 2016 and by 2020 they expect to move to 50,000h for low-end, 100,000h mid-end over 500,000h for high-end (specialty materials aimed for military and medical grade lighting devices and displays which are not expected to be sold to civilians in the foreseeable future) plus they work on their "century" materials 1 million hours, however they have no plans to ever commercialize or mass-produce those. The main takeaway for me was, though, there is no upper limit to OLED's lifespan meaning there might even be a chance that current generations may get a chance to own one TV that lasts for life.
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post #10716 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 08:28 AM
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OLED is "the perfect technology". I think manufacturers are somewhat afraid to introduce it, because it's essentially perfection.
  • very high brightness
  • very large colour gamut
  • infinite contrast ratio
  • energy efficient
  • can do 4K and 8K
  • can do both passive & active 3D
  • works from almost any viewing angle
  • long-life
  • curvable (...)
  • ultra-thin

The question is... where do you go from there? They've got to be careful not to create a product they can't compete with. Smart TV platforms were introduced, in part, to attempt to make TVs obsolete after every year. But not everyone wanted a Smart TV.

Sort of like we see Samsung introducing "quantum dot" LED TVs, it's just a marketing term to try and differentiate themselves, OLED manufacturers might be stuck in the same position, relying only on marketing rather than any substantial difference to sell next year's technology. The introduction of LED-backlit LCD TVs was a huge boon to the industry, making a lot more people jump ship from CRT. OLED will probably do the same thing to LED. Plasma TVs had a similar issue with being seen as "old technology", hence one of the reasons for their demise. (Even though it's arguable plasma display panels developed far more than LCD ever did.)

Remember how CRT was dominant for 60+ years? Yeah, they definitely DON'T want a repetition of that.

Last edited by tom669; Yesterday at 08:33 AM.
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post #10717 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM
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Don't forget expensive.
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post #10718 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 09:22 AM
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Here's one to file under "what could they possibly think of next".


LG to release Swarovski-encrusted OLED TV in Europe.


Source: http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/01/lgs-swarovski-oled/


Other links: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5750788.html
http://news.oled-display.net/lg-and-...emium-oled-tv/



Quote:
LG claims the 460-crystal pattern "turns a cutting-edge television into a work of art."

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post #10719 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
OLED is "the perfect technology". I think manufacturers are somewhat afraid to introduce it, because it's essentially perfection.

Some more distance to travel before "perfection" (whatever that is) is reached. I'll put my responses in bold.
  • very high brightness: Part of the reason that the brightness is at the level it's at is that they're extending the persistence time. This hurts motion dramatically. It is not yet bright enough to pull off the very tight pulse-style motion mitigation that you can find with, say, Sony MotionFlow Impulse.
  • very large colour gamut: Unclear. This isn't specific to OLED
  • infinite contrast ratio: Yep
  • energy efficient: Yep
  • can do 4K and 8K: High PPI (as with phones), but "8K"? The first prototypes of 8K (and that's all they were) were LCD.
  • can do both passive & active 3D: Yep. Though LCD can, and the concept that only IPS could pull it off is long gone.
  • works from almost any viewing angle: Yep.
  • long-life: Keep in mind that we actually need to have these displays in the hands of consumers for long periods in order to know that for sure. But it does seem that the lifetime is good.
  • curvable (...): Religious war bait. (lol)
  • ultra-thin: The thinness wars are over (thank goodness). LCDs are thin enough.

WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.

Last edited by tgm1024; Yesterday at 01:27 PM. Reason: Typos. Oye.
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post #10720 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Some more distance to travel before "perfection" (whatever that is) is reached. I'll put my responses in bold.
  • very high brightness: Part of the reason that the brightness is at the level it's at is that they're extending the persistence time. This hurts motion dramatically. It is not yet bright enough to pull off the very tight pulse-style motion mitigation that you can find with, say, Sony MotionFlow Impulse.
  • very large colour gamut: Unclear. This isn't specific to OLED
  • infinite contrast ratio: Yep
  • energy efficient: Yep
  • can do 4K and 8K: High PPI (as with phones), but "8K"? The first prototypes of 8K (and that's all they were) were LCD.
  • can do both passive & active 3D: Yep. Though LCD can, and the concept that only IPS could pull it off is long gone.
  • works from almost any viewing angle: Yep.
  • long-life: Keep in mind that we actually need to have these displays in the hands of consumers for long periods in order to know that for sure. But it does seem that the lifetime is good.
  • curvable (...): Religious war bait. (lol)
  • ultra-thin: The thinness wars are over (thank goodness). LCDs are thin enough.
[/QUOTE]


And just to round out this very good post, on the negative side we potentially have:

-yellow-push / white-balance non-uniformity (and potential panel lottery)
-image-retention (potentially more finicky 'care-and-feeding' requirements than LED/LCD)
-color inaccuracy / difficulty to calibrate accurately
-near-dark greyscale non-uniformity and/or black-crush
-stuck-off sub-pixels and sub-pixel degradation over time
-large inter-row gap (SDE)
-Automatic Brightness Limiter

Compared to LED/LCD, the only of these that might be 'worse' would be IR/care-and-feeding, the larger inter-row gap, and the dying sub-pixels if continued degradation proves to be possible/likely even on the Gen-2 WOLEDs - everything else might be a clear negative compared to class-leading plasmas like the Samsung F8500, but would probably be well-within the norms for even class-leading LED/LCDs...
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post #10721 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
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Fundamentally speaking, OLED is capable of fixing all of these issues.

Low level non-uniformity and motion response can be fixed by moving to a sub-field drive scheme - this is similar to how plasma displays work and will improve motion. (OLED will also not require dithering due to the pixels having a wide intensity range.) This will require some changes to the technology but ultimately will be a big boon to panel efficiency and reliability (reduced panel heat.)

ABL will always be present, but from what I have seen it is not that aggressive. Manufacturers will always include ABL because it can make the panel brighter on average content for the same power budget, which is more attractive. In theory, it'll be possible to lower the equivalent of "cell light" to eliminate it, which will reduce the panel brightness slightly.

Sub-pixel degradation remains to be seen...
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post #10722 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
Fundamentally speaking, OLED is capable of fixing all of these issues.
It doesn't yet, which is the point. Lots of road to travel before perfection, but wow am I looking forward to it.

I still half-expect something weird to happen in between though: some strange emissive tech to show up that's cheap. Or maybe an odd kind of multi-level plasma with no IR. Now wouldn't that be wild.

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post #10723 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM
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I do think that the manufactures are afraid to release OLED, even though it's too late now because the monster has been released. tom669 mentions that OLED is perfection. Now we know it's not really perfection but I think that the current major brand TV manufactures have every reason to fear that by the time the third or fouth generation of OLED hits the public it will be perceived as perfection. What can they offer except some bells and whistles and slap the high end label on it?
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post #10724 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I still half-expect something weird to happen in between though: some strange emissive tech to show up that's cheap. Or maybe an odd kind of multi-level plasma with no IR. Now wouldn't that be wild.
AUO said they were still developing surface electron emitter displays (SED) in 2009 - nothing seemed to come of it. Canon killed off FED. LG are killing off plasma... no manufacturer wanted to release a 4K plasma.

And what about Crystal LED? Huge SDE issue, and probably too expensive to mass produce...

I think the future for emissive displays is looking rather dim until OLED falls further in price. That being said, isn't the 55" OLED cheaper than Pioneer's 50" 9G plasmas near release?

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post #10725 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
AUO said they were still developing surface electron emitter displays (SED) in 2009 - nothing seemed to come of it. Canon killed off FED. LG are killing off plasma... no manufacturer wanted to release a 4K plasma.

And what about Crystal LED? Huge SDE issue, and probably too expensive to mass produce...

I think the future for emissive displays is looking rather dim until OLED falls further in price. That being said, isn't the 55" OLED cheaper than Pioneer's 50" 9G plasmas near release?
$2199 right now at Fry's Electronics. The avalanche is coming.
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post #10726 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
AUO said they were still developing surface electron emitter displays (SED) in 2009 - nothing seemed to come of it. Canon killed off FED. LG are killing off plasma... no manufacturer wanted to release a 4K plasma.

And what about Crystal LED? Huge SDE issue, and probably too expensive to mass produce...

I think the future for emissive displays is looking rather dim until OLED falls further in price. That being said, isn't the 55" OLED cheaper than Pioneer's 50" 9G plasmas near release?
My half-expectation was that a new technology would show up (before OLED became bullet proof), not the flopped old ones.

SED/FED: Both of these necessitate PWM, which removes them from my interest.

CLED: I was so so SO hoping for that tech from Sony years ago. Back then, Rogo was the one breaking the bad news to us, insisting that there was no chance in Hades that it could be made. Alas, he was right.

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post #10727 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
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$2199 right now at Fry's Electronics. The avalanche is coming.

That sale price is for the discontinued 55EA9800.

$2200 for a fantastic out-of-production 55" 1080p TV.

Versus $1350 for a 55" 1080p Samsung F8000, or $1250 for the 55" 1080p Sony W950B or $850 for a 55" 1080p Vizio M - still more than a 50% premium for the 55EA9800 even at this 'special' price...

Or versus the new Hisense 55" 4K TV for $800 at Best Buy right now (which was getting far more interest than the 55EC9300 at my local Best Buy this weekend).

Even every single videophile here on AVS Forum does not an avalanche make...
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post #10728 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 05:14 PM
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Always interesting to see that bitter side

Thanks!
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post #10729 of 10729 Old Yesterday, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That sale price is for the discontinued 55EA9800.

$2200 for a fantastic out-of-production 55" 1080p TV.

Versus $1350 for a 55" 1080p Samsung F8000, or $1250 for the 55" 1080p Sony W950B or $850 for a 55" 1080p Vizio M - still more than a 50% premium for the 55EA9800 even at this 'special' price...
Sobering reality. It wasn't long ago the "bar" for a premium 55-inch 1080p TV was, in fact, right around $2500. And as I said then, it was likely that market was going away. Well, it's gone baby gone.

(Still, if someone wants a 55-inch OLED, that's a sweet deal on the LG. Go pick one up!)

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Always interesting to see that bitter side
fafrd, bitter? Not even a little.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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