OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 365 - AVS Forum
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post #10921 of 10932 Old 09-15-2014, 08:28 AM
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The heck with that post, I love the picture!
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post #10922 of 10932 Old 09-15-2014, 08:32 AM
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Question regarding the upscaler...
I've pre-ordered LG's 65EC9700 4K OLED. Any info on the quality of upscaler used? I just see the usual LG marketing terms. I'm wondering if say, an OPPO 103 may offer a superior 4K scaler to that of the LG? The OPPO could tide me over till 4K BluRay appears...
I did see one review recently (can't recall which one) that said the upscaling quality was excellent. I have no idea how it compares to the OPPO. I too was looking for that information as that will obviously be very important for quite some time to come.
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post #10923 of 10932 Old 09-15-2014, 05:19 PM
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Yes upscaling quality is the whole thing for me since I have a huge collection of dvd concerts that I love and using the Oppo 83 along with a darbee has given me amazing results on my calibrated Samsung 8500 LED.I dont want to sacrifice PQ on standard discs that will have to upscale to 4K.Plan on using my Oppo 83 on the 65 Oled to upscale my dvds.Hope this will work out.

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post #10924 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 05:50 AM
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Printed OLED TVs from Kateeva's manufacturing systems reportedly several years away

Unless I'm reading this wrong, this is disappointing news: According to oled-info.com, Kateeva expects many orders for their OLED printing manufacturing systems in 2015 but they are for flexible and small-screen applications. They say OLED printed TVs are not expected until 2020.

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Kateeva's plan is to produce encapsulation systems for flexible OLEDs in the near term (forecasting sales of over $100 million per year). In 2020, they will start offering OLED TV printing systems - and this is a much bigger opportunity (over $1 billion per year).
But one positive thing is that Samsung is one of the investors in Kateeva.

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post #10925 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 06:22 AM
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LG Display Sees OLED Profit as Talks Continue With Sony

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...with-sony.html

They are counting on companies such as Sony and Panasonic to generate a wider acceptance of OLED TVs.
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post #10926 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
Unless I'm reading this wrong, this is disappointing news: According to oled-info.com, Kateeva expects many orders for their OLED printing manufacturing systems in 2015 but they are for flexible and small-screen applications. They say OLED printed TVs are not expected until 2020.
Quote:
Kateeva's plan is to produce encapsulation systems for flexible OLEDs in the near term (forecasting sales of over $100 million per year). In 2020, they will start offering OLED TV printing systems - and this is a much bigger opportunity (over $1 billion per year).
But one positive thing is that Samsung is one of the investors in Kateeva.

What actually was said is ''Research company IHS says the market for flexible displays is expected to grow rapidly this year and reach nearly $100 million. But the bigger market is OLED TVs, says Harrus, who estimates it will be more than $1 billion annually after 2020.''
http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco...utm_source=rss

According rogo Alain Harrus (CEO Kateeva) said that timetable for Kateeva-based TVs is about 2 years out.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogo...msung-kateeva/

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post #10927 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
What actually was said is ''Research company IHS says the market for flexible displays is expected to grow rapidly this year and reach nearly $100 million. But the bigger market is OLED TVs, says Harrus, who estimates it will be more than $1 billion annually after 2020.''
http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco...utm_source=rss

According rogo Alain Harrus (CEO Kateeva) said that timetable for Kateeva-based TVs is about 2 years out.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogo...msung-kateeva/
I hate to sound like a broken record, but where exactly are the manufacturers that will buy production equipment from Kateeva gonna get materials from?


Word on the street is PPG (UDC) are years away from being able to make enough to soluble materials to meet demand of any kind and rumor has that PPG may even drop out. EMD Millipore (Merck) are having troubles with solubles, too although they still plan to enter the market in 2015, however they (UDC and Merck) are getting more and more sick and tired of sinking hundreds of millions of dollars into OLED with no returns by day. Merck and UDC will be the ones shipping soluble materials for Kateeva's printers in 2015 in limited quantities.


http://www.ppg.com/en/newsroom/news/...20131122A.aspx

....

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post #10928 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Printables for TV still have issues around materials longevity -- ironically not a problem for smartphones -- but the hope is that steady progress is being made there too.
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
I hate to sound like a broken record, but where exactly are the manufacturers that will buy production equipment from Kateeva gonna get materials from?

Word on the street is PPG (UDC) are years away from being able to make enough to soluble materials to meet demand of any kind and rumor has that PPG may even drop out. EMD Millipore (Merck) are having troubles with solubles, too although they still plan to enter the market in 2015, however they (UDC and Merck) are getting more and more sick and tired of sinking hundreds of millions of dollars into OLED with no returns by day. Merck and UDC will be the ones shipping soluble materials for Kateeva's printers in 2015 in limited quantities.
Rogo, you talked to Kateeva.. any comment on this? Or on encapsulation materials being used with Kateeva equipment? Or on Kateeva and LG?
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post #10929 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
Unless I'm reading this wrong, this is disappointing news: According to oled-info.com, Kateeva expects many orders for their OLED printing manufacturing systems in 2015 but they are for flexible and small-screen applications. They say OLED printed TVs are not expected until 2020.

But one positive thing is that Samsung is one of the investors in Kateeva.
Should probably read posts from other sources. I dunno who else wrote about this Kateeva thing, but I think I read somewhere that they expect systems for TV production to be in place by 2016. That doesn't mean you'll be buying a TV in 2016, but perhaps close to that.

They also seem to think that a 10% +/- premium to existing high-end stuff is the price target around then for such TVs.

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Rogo, you talked to Kateeva.. any comment on this? Or on encapsulation materials being used with Kateeva equipment? Or on Kateeva and LG?
Well, as I wrote above, 2020 is way later than Kateeva is targeting. And in 2015, they expect customers to take their equipment and make flexible displays. Obviously, they will need OLED material to do that, but to describe this as a "non-concern" in the short run wouldn't be completely off base.

As for 2016, when the TV-based stuff is expected to be ready to go to market with the TVs themselves to follow soon after, I'd say you might think about it this way: You can't justify upping production of soluble OLED material without a market for soluble OLED material. You can't make a market for it without a way of making the displays. The world has that way now. It's going to start making displays. That will start making the money. That should attract investment in the material making.

Maybe there are issues with ramping production and it could well be that between everything, there's a reason you won't see TVs in 2016, but I'm pretty sanguine that if there's a TV customer for YIELDjet, there'll be material to make OLEDs on it.

And without speaking for Kateeva, I'd say they likely believe the same thing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #10930 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Maybe there are issues with ramping production and it could well be that between everything, there's a reason you won't see TVs in 2016, but I'm pretty sanguine that if there's a TV customer for YIELDjet, there'll be material to make OLEDs on it.

And without speaking for Kateeva, I'd say they likely believe the same thing.
As long as they have qualified materials with sufficient lifetime/efficiency, ramping material supply is not going to be a gating factor. If nothing else, printing is going to bring down the amount of material needed by 80% for a given area.
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post #10931 of 10932 Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM
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Well I can tell Wizz and I have very different tastes. This has nothing to do with being a 'perfectionist', but rather seeing things differently. No right or wrong here. Despite the flaws of plasma, I've never seen or owned a consumer/prosumer CRT, that could match the overall PQ of the best latter gen plasmas.

This doesn't even address the lack of a cinematic experience with CRTs.
We're actually not that different in that regard. I NEVER watch movies on my CRT. It is way too small for that purpose. I use it primarily for gaming because it offers the ideal combination of zero input lag and perfect motion resolution. Second best black level performance doesn't hurt either - although OLED has finally beaten it on that measure. To hit the same black levels without crushing dark details would require some external gamma compensation with my CRT.

tgm1024 is correct that motion is probably the main issue left unsolved in modern displays. We took a giant hit when the flat panel era started and have never recovered to the same level of performance. You don't really need any fancy tests to prove it. Just play your favorite 60 fps content and pause it. If you see additional detail compared to when it was moving, you're losing motion resolution. It's a very obvious difference if you have a CRT next to any other display type.

Because of limitations with 24fps content, there is nothing anyone can do to make that look perfect. If that's your primary source of content, then I would not worry about motion resolution with most modern displays.
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post #10932 of 10932 Old Today, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
As long as they have qualified materials with sufficient lifetime/efficiency, ramping material supply is not going to be a gating factor. If nothing else, printing is going to bring down the amount of material needed by 80% for a given area.
We are in violent agreement.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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