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post #10951 of 10970 Old 09-19-2014, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I didn't know thread was most appropriate for this, so I guess I'll post it here:


Just returned from my local Best Buy. Spoke to the manager and they have not sold a single 55EC9300 at the 'old' price of $3500 and they have only sold a single 55EC9300 since the drop to the 'sale' price of $3000.
You're in the bay area right? Down here in socal the situation is exactly the same. The stores I visit near work have a box sitting on the floor next to he TV. Those boxes have not moved since launch. One AVS member local to me bought one and then returned it to wait for the 4K 65" model. I also see no drop in their online store-pickup inventory for my area.

I think we've pretty much established that the MicroCenter and Fry's closeout prices of $2K on the EA9800 are the only way to move these TVs. We've already seen a $500 drop and I would not be shocked if they are at $2K by Black Friday.

Good news for potential shoppers. I also think they will introduce an equivalent to the flat European 55EA870v for an even lower price than the curved. It's a much simpler design that should be cheaper to produce without the stupid gallery frame.

$8.5K+ for the 65" is complete insanity and is basically just a paper launch. It probably means we won't see any reviews for many months. The first EA9800 owners here on AVS didn't show up until 6 months later when it hit ~$5K from the original $15K

Edit: You also have to consider that in the areas where the EA9800 is still available for less, it is probably killing sales of the EC9300. I expect sales will pick up somewhat once the older inventory is exhausted.
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post #10952 of 10970 Old 09-20-2014, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
p.s. and once again, there were more customers clustered around the 55" 1080p Hisense costing less than 1/4 of the 55EC9300 on 'sale' (the two set's have been positioned on adjacent non-prime endcaps).
I don't doubt this at all. I'll ask at my local BB (Massachusetts) and see what he says.

I was really surprised at how the black levels of the EC9300 looked compared to the nearby LCD on that bright floor of theirs. They were very close. It's just not the place for it.

But as I had that thought at BB I quickly remembered that black levels aren't actually in the forefront of the public's consciousness anyway. It is here, but frankly, I don't think the average person looks for it or knows what it is. Besides, as a few of us have mentioned, when your iris is shrunk down to a pinhole, they all look great.

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post #10953 of 10970 Old 09-20-2014, 12:30 PM
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Rogo,
From your article on Kateeva: "Kateeva expects customers to use its machines to build flexible displays that can be bent and even folded in half. The end result would be nearly unbreakable smartphones and possibly even devices that allow you to fold out an extra display when you need more workspace. The larger display could be seamless and nearly allow your phone to be transformed into a tablet and back again. Kateeva’s CEO Alain Harrus believes products using this type of display will reach the market as soon as next year."

From oled-info http://www.oled-info.com/kateeva-rai...k-jet-printing
Kateeva expects to ship the first commercial systems towards the end of 2014. YieldJET systems can be used to mass-produce flexible OLED thin-film encapsulation, one of the major technology hurdles towards flexible OLEDs.


Samsung has suggested displays like you describe for next year and is building a gen 6 flexible line with equipment delivery at the end of the year and expected to be ready for production in q2. LG is planning one but hasn't ordered equipment. If Kateeva is building a machine for a flexible line for delivery this year with product next year, then it is for Samsung's gen 6 line. So, rather than for the RGB OLED, is this Kateeva machine for thin film encapsulation for Samsung's gen 6 flexible line? Samsung's main problem with flexible displays has been the thin film encapsulation so I could see where they would be interested in this.
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post #10954 of 10970 Old 09-20-2014, 06:33 PM
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Hi, ynot, your theory sounds very correct. That said, Kateeva (and I believe Samsung) are not confirming an explicit commercial relationship at this point. It seems very likely that that Samsung's Gen 6 line for flexible displays will, in fact, use Kateeva's equipment. It is certainly the case that Kateeva is clear on the fact that it's first delivers are focused on customers looking to use thin-film encapsulation and make said displays.

So, let me be clear: I can't confirm or deny because they didn't confirm. But I agree with your conclusions.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #10955 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Good news for potential shoppers. I also think they will introduce an equivalent to the flat European 55EA870v for an even lower price than the curved.
What makes you think so? Is there a source for this info you can share?
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post #10956 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
You're in the bay area right? Down here in socal the situation is exactly the same. The stores I visit near work have a box sitting on the floor next to he TV. Those boxes have not moved since launch. One AVS member local to me bought one and then returned it to wait for the 4K 65" model. I also see no drop in their online store-pickup inventory for my area.

I think we've pretty much established that the MicroCenter and Fry's closeout prices of $2K on the EA9800 are the only way to move these TVs. We've already seen a $500 drop and I would not be shocked if they are at $2K by Black Friday.

Good news for potential shoppers. I also think they will introduce an equivalent to the flat European 55EA870v for an even lower price than the curved. It's a much simpler design that should be cheaper to produce without the stupid gallery frame.

$8.5K+ for the 65" is complete insanity and is basically just a paper launch. It probably means we won't see any reviews for many months. The first EA9800 owners here on AVS didn't show up until 6 months later when it hit ~$5K from the original $15K

Edit: You also have to consider that in the areas where the EA9800 is still available for less, it is probably killing sales of the EC9300. I expect sales will pick up somewhat once the older inventory is exhausted.

Yeah (Berkeley).


And totally agree on pricing (in fact, had he thought the first time I heard about the $2K McMall pricing 'mistake' on the 55EA9800...).
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post #10957 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Just returned from my local Best Buy. Spoke to the manager and they have not sold a single 55EC9300 at the 'old' price of $3500 and they have only sold a single 55EC9300 since the drop to the 'sale' price of $3000.
My experience was a little different. I went back to the BB where I bought mine and the endcap that had the display was empty. I asked where the demo unit was and the salesperson said it broke and went back for repair some time ago. I mentioned it must be tough trying to sell an OLED given that there's no display and the salesperson quickly said they hadn't sold any at all. I guess they didn't count the one they sold me.
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post #10958 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
My experience was a little different. I went back to the BB where I bought mine and the endcap that had the display was empty. I asked where the demo unit was and the salesperson said it broke and went back for repair some time ago. I mentioned it must be tough trying to sell an OLED given that there's no display and the salesperson quickly said they hadn't sold any at all. I guess they didn't count the one they sold me.

Not too different. Two Best Buys each having sold only a single OLED over the past 6+ weeks. If we get enough other anecdotal evidence from other members to believe there is any validity to thinking this poor level of sales may generalize to all 4000 Best Buy stores, it means things are looking pretty grim for LG...

4000 in sales over 6 weeks would translate into a runrate of ~32,000 annually, or well under 3000 per month.

M2, when it is finally ramped up to the Phase-I production level of 8000 Gen8 sheets per month, will be producing over 38,000 55EC9300s per month (at stated yields of 80%).

That kind of mismatch is going to result in a return to MicroCenter 'mistake' prices of $2K sooner rather than later...
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post #10959 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
My experience was a little different. I went back to the BB where I bought mine and the endcap that had the display was empty. I asked where the demo unit was and the salesperson said it broke and went back for repair some time ago. I mentioned it must be tough trying to sell an OLED given that there's no display and the salesperson quickly said they hadn't sold any at all. I guess they didn't count the one they sold me.
Sounds like best buy employees don't know how many units are sold among themselves. A part timer might say he hasn't sold any while full time employee may sold a few or someone working weekends get more traffic. I doubt regular blue shirts keep tabs on who sell what.
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post #10960 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 08:48 PM
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^they're pushing 4k at best buy. OLED isn't in 4k yet at bestbuy. Just to add to your thought.
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post #10961 of 10970 Old Yesterday, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosCloud View Post
What makes you think so? Is there a source for this info you can share?
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1410102139

Quote:
LG is selling a flat OLED TV in most markets, too. The 55EA8800 “Gallery” TV is currently more expensive than the curved TV, but in select markets LG will soon introduce a new EA870 model without the Gallery frame and less powerful speakers. On the other hand, you will have live without the webOS platform. LG expects it to retail at around the same price as the new curved model.

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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Not too different. Two Best Buys each having sold only a single OLED over the past 6+ weeks. If we get enough other anecdotal evidence from other members to believe there is any validity to thinking this poor level of sales may generalize to all 4000 Best Buy stores, it means things are looking pretty grim for LG...

4000 in sales over 6 weeks would translate into a runrate of ~32,000 annually, or well under 3000 per month.

M2, when it is finally ramped up to the Phase-I production level of 8000 Gen8 sheets per month, will be producing over 38,000 55EC9300s per month (at stated yields of 80%).

That kind of mismatch is going to result in a return to MicroCenter 'mistake' prices of $2K sooner rather than later...
I think the situation is grim indeed. Ignoring BB, let's take a look at MicroCenter. They also have an online inventory system. If you look at the EA9800 stock, you will see that only 2 out of 25 stores have sold out at $2K pricing that has been in effect for a few weeks now. The others still have plenty of stock (some over 10 units). I think lack of marketing is also a huge problem for LG. I see those stupid Samsung ads for curved LCD almost every day. I have yet to see a single ad for OLED. Most people have no clue what it is or its advantages. The tiny number of people on this forum are not enough to sustain sales for long.

I was hoping the 4K models would spark more interest but at the proposed pricing, that's just not going to happen.
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post #10962 of 10970 Old Today, 01:41 AM
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I don't think it's just lack of marketing. I think the market for 55-inch $2000 TVs is drying up. I think the market for 2K TVs is drying up as premium products, period.

I reported this in another thread, but it's hard to find evidence that there is much discernible volume at $2000+ for the 55-and-up category -- even in 4K. I'd say volume at least exists in 4K, but the 2K stuff that's super-premium is edging down toward $1500-1700.

And those of us who told you that regular consumers would not see OLED in stores as sufficiently differently are seeing strong confirmation for that belief at this point.

LG will need to get 4K going in a hurry and, likely, drive the 2K models down below $2000 to move its projected volumes. There's a lot of reason why they are slashing forecasts for 2015. It can't deliver what it was once supposed to. Even pushing M2 to capacity won't make sense without some structural changes.
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post #10963 of 10970 Old Today, 01:49 AM
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I know several people (not just enthusiasts) who would purchase a 55"+ OLED for $4K or so ($5K for 4K)… if it was flat.

We'll see if they bite when the gallery model becomes available, though it's not 4K… assuming LG fixes the judder issue and has a way to defeat the firmware brightness limiting.

From what I've seen, interest in WebOS is near zero, as most people have other devices that do all that and don't need their TV to do anything more than be a display and receive OTA signals (no speakers would be a nice plus as virtually no one spending that kind of money for a display ever uses the TV speakers.)
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post #10964 of 10970 Old Today, 03:50 AM
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… assuming LG fixes the judder issue and has a way to defeat the firmware brightness limiting.
What makes you think that the brightness limiter will be defeated?

It was put in to extend the life of the panel.

Personally....that's a big negative but I guess it depends a lot on how aggressive it is. If its F8500 aggressive, I wouldn't worry. If its Pioneer 6070 aggressive, I'd pass on it.

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post #10965 of 10970 Old Today, 04:24 AM
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What makes you think that the brightness limiter will be defeated?

It was put in to extend the life of the panel.

Personally....that's a big negative but I guess it depends a lot on how aggressive it is. If its F8500 aggressive, I wouldn't worry. If its Pioneer 6070 aggressive, I'd pass on it.
That's exactly why; if I want to shorten the life of my panel in favor of full dynamic range of my LEDs, shouldn't I be able to?

It's no different than running a projector at a higher output setting at the cost of bulb life.
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post #10966 of 10970 Old Today, 04:47 AM
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That's exactly why; if I want to shorten the life of my panel in favor of full dynamic range of my LEDs, shouldn't I be able to?

It's no different than running a projector at a higher output setting at the cost of bulb life.
That depends on whether or not you expect the manufacturer to pony up another display while under warranty. The bulb example only works because you're the one paying for replacement bulbs.

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post #10967 of 10970 Old Today, 09:49 AM
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That depends on whether or not you expect the manufacturer to pony up another display while under warranty. The bulb example only works because you're the one paying for replacement bulbs.
Then the ABL isn't there to extend life but to prevent early sudden death, which means it will not be disabled unless something changes.
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post #10968 of 10970 Old Today, 10:47 AM
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Then the ABL isn't there to extend life but to prevent early sudden death, which means it will not be disabled unless something changes.
I don't see a lot of difference between "to extend life" and "prevent early sudden death."

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post #10969 of 10970 Old Today, 11:53 AM
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I don't see a lot of difference between "to extend life" and "prevent early sudden death."
Ask me! Ask me!

Extended life degradation is the hope that it wouldn't happen until after the warranty expires, and sudden death would be expensive to the manufacturer if it happened during the warranty.
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post #10970 of 10970 Old Today, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Thanks, I have seen that page before, but based on the quoted statement I would not assume that an equivalent to the European model is headed for the North American market.

However - googling 55EA8700, the logical name for such a product, a result of wifi certification appears. So perhaps LG is planning to release it this side of the ocean.
http://www.wi-fi.org/content/search-page?keys=55ea8700
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